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vision777
25-09-2007, 12:33
I was reading the new york post newspaper horoscopes yesterday and they kept talking about the planet Pluto, I just wanted to know does anybody here know what Pluto means in terms of astrology because I just read a couple of things about it being apart of death and new beginnings and then I thought I heard some people saying that pluto was not being counted as a planet any more , but any way can someone please explain Pluto I would be very thankful for your help

willowfox
25-09-2007, 15:01
Pluto has to do with transformation, regeneration, rebirth, nuclear power, crime of all kinds, terrorism.

Now the planet or shall we now say moon is very small, extremely far away, and very slow moving. It will stay in one sign for years. Many astrologers say that it is very important and very powerful, I am not one of them, this moon takes decades to move around. Okay nuclear power is new but all the other things it is supposed to rule have been around since humans first stood upright.

In a branch of astrology called horary, the majority of astrologers do not take Pluto into account.

MCsea
25-09-2007, 18:32
HI I have pluto prominent in my chart - and so I do consider it important, Iahve a mars pluto square - OUCH
I see pluto as being the great recycler in our lives - since the dawn of time too, nothing stays the same, somethings disintegrate others explode some just rot I think the rotting is pluto - in a flash of brilliance I thought the best thing pluto was good for was getting rid of really nasty stuff - like the 'toilet room' in a home - saying that IM having a pluto square pluto at the moment, so once that is over I might find something NICE to say about the planet ;)

MARINA

dadsnook2000
25-09-2007, 22:00
Pluto, like other planets and components that we place into the astrological model of our "birth chart", may or may not be significant for us as individuals. What many of us forget is that not everything placed into our charts is something that we resonate to.

We have physical bodies such as the Sun and planets and asteroids. We have mathematical constructs such as house cusps and signs. We have actual points in space which cannot be seen such as the Moon's nodes and mid-points. We also have several coordinate systems which are used and not-used to determine where one of these astrological components can be placed or which can be used to define a "relationship" to another component.

On top of all of this ambiguity, we have the actual "practice of astrology" to contend with -- meaning the types of charts and methods we use to look at and understand the components in the charts.

Given all that, I have seen a great many instances where Pluto played a powerful role in one's chart. I think of the many T-squares involving Pluto with Moon and Mercury and the stressful, upheaval-filled lives of clients with those patterns. I see my chart and life where Pluto seems to be invisible and of little consequence. Pluto can be a powerful symbol. When it works in a chart it can have so many possible meanings. The trick for the astrologer is to know which meaning(s) to apply.

Part of this is understanding which type of chart you are using to answer what type of question. Part is understanding IF and HOW Pluto is portrayed and positioned in the natal chart.
** Pluto coming to a mid-point in a solar-arc progressed chart when it is also significant in a birth chart will almost certainly be life-changing.
** Pluto being transited in a natal chart by the Moon when it is part of a Sun-Moon-Pluto t-square may just be a stressful day.
** Pluto (transiting) being on the Ascendant of a Solar Return chart may just signify a year when the personality will change: a quiet person may emerge as being more involved in life. If the natal Pluto is at the Ascendant then the person may change their whole life-style or find that stressful life-styles has generated conditions that affect their health. If both the transiting and natal Pluto's are angular than the year may bring calamity and change in several areas.

Its all part of the process of learning this complex art form. Dave

vision777
26-09-2007, 05:40
quote willowfox : Pluto has to do with transformation, regeneration, rebirth, nuclear power, crime of all kinds, terrorism


so is pluto a dangerous planet? because I know mars deals with anger I did not know pluto deals with crimes I don't understand that because I thought mars is the planet of violents and fights isn't those crimes too ? how is a planet (Pluto) that deals with rebirth consider a planet that is connected to crimes?

willowfox
26-09-2007, 14:55
Mars covers violence and warfare the type of aggression that is out in the open for all to see. A gunfight, a murder, any violent that you can see.
Pluto is lord of the underworld so that is why the connection to crime and organized crime, it is something that is hidden,secret and out of sight. Gangsters have all been associated with darkness, so they won't be seen, they commit their crimes away from the public view.
The underworld is where a dead person gets reborn and therefore has a connection to sex and reproduction.
Pluto is considered dangerous because it is a destroyer, think nuclear bombs.

vision777
27-09-2007, 11:29
thank you that was the most clearest answer I've ever heard I have been going through some weird moments with my child's father he has been acting very strange and he does not call he was not acting like this before it all started on saturday sept 15th . I think pluto may be playing a part in this he is a libra and I am a capricorn.

MCsea
29-09-2007, 14:29
Pluto is considered dangerous because it is a destroyer, think nuclear bombs.

To some extent I agree but I think Uranus is more nuclear bombs
pluto is a transformer - re-cycle - breaks down so far but then leaves enough to be rebuilt.. like compost..

Uranus some times just leaves nothing... but complete change (not disaster I agree)??

just some thoughts...

willowfox
29-09-2007, 15:29
To some extent I agree but I think Uranus is more nuclear bombs
pluto is a transformer - re-cycle - breaks down so far but then leaves enough to be rebuilt.. like compost..

Uranus some times just leaves nothing... but complete change (not disaster I agree)??

just some thoughts...

Uranus is much more sudden and explosive, much smaller and localized, Uranus does not cause widespread total destruction, there is always something left, it is a planet of change but not total destruction, something can grow afterwards.


Pluto has to do with absolute total destruction, annihilation, holocaust where nothing is left, nothing can survive its power, so nothing new can come from its destruction.

MCsea
29-09-2007, 16:17
Uranus is much more sudden and explosive, much smaller and localized, Uranus does not cause widespread total destruction, there is always something left, it is a planet of change but not total destruction, something can grow afterwards.


Pluto has to do with absolute total destruction, annihilation, holocaust where nothing is left, nothing can survive its power, so nothing new can come from its destruction.

Well I suppose it can reside differntly in differnt people cause I beleive in re-generation, past and future lives - no complete end..
Symbol of Scorpio Transformative Regenerative Self, maybe I just need some hope..

willowfox
29-09-2007, 19:38
Well I suppose it can reside differntly in differnt people cause I beleive in re-generation, past and future lives - no complete end..
Symbol of Scorpio Transformative Regenerative Self, maybe I just need some hope..

I was talking about the destructive side of Pluto, Pluto also rules transformation, like in the peaceful use of nuclear energy, and it also rules rebirth, where the body turns to dust but the spirit lives on in another form. Everything has two sides to it, a positive and a negative, even Pluto.

dadsnook2000
29-09-2007, 22:07
It can be helpful to consider the world situation at the time each of these planets was discovered.

The US and France were engaged in revolution, a process of rebellion against authority, a push to recognize the value of individuals, a need to find new ways of living and progressing --- all of this when Uranus was discovered.

When Pluto was discovered, a different form of unrest was evident. There were powerful forces taking control through hidden means: Germany was politically being subverted, the US banking system was destroyed, mob-gangs were using the laws of prohibition to take control of politics and the making of money.

Just of some thoughts. Dave

MCsea
30-09-2007, 18:45
It can be helpful to consider the world situation at the time each of these planets was discovered.

The US and France were engaged in revolution, a process of rebellion against authority, a push to recognize the value of individuals, a need to find new ways of living and progressing --- all of this when Uranus was discovered.

When Pluto was discovered, a different form of unrest was evident. There were powerful forces taking control through hidden means: Germany was politically being subverted, the US banking system was destroyed, mob-gangs were using the laws of prohibition to take control of politics and the making of money.

Just of some thoughts. Dave

Thank you Dave - I gain much from your thoughts!

MARINA

vision777
01-10-2007, 13:01
Thanks, is there any positive things that can happen when pluto is present ?

dadsnook2000
01-10-2007, 21:11
Let's look at the research of Ebertin. He says that Pluto's principle represents "force majeure or providence, invisible forces or powers."

Psychological correspondences include:

(positive) The will or wish to exercise power, the manifestation of unconscious powers, ruthless frankness or candidness, the urge to influence the masses, propagandist aspirations and objectives, understanding the masses.

(negative) Ruthless use of force or coercion, inclination to incite, a fanatical zeal to state one's own doctrinal principles, to agitate, convulsions and spasms.

Biological correspondences include the collective consciousness, regeneration.

Sociological correspondences include persons who can be said to exercise a magical influence over the masses, suchas propagandists, actors, public speakers and politicians.

We have to recognize that the "Hamburg, Germany School" included many notable researchers such as Vitte and the Ebertin's (father and son) who worked with hundreds of thousands of charts and clients from the late 1800's into the middle 1900's after world war two. They popularized the mid-point system of astrology. While some of their interpretations are shaded with more dire or darker meanings, their interpretations in terms of content and range are very accurate and well founded.

So, what would we take out of this as "positive?" It depends upon the context of the person and chart of course, but I would suggest zeal, intensity, a drive to persist, unflinching determination, possibly courage, a need to succeed, amazing turns of luck and good fortune, the ability to lead others, a magnetic personality.

You may often find that those with Pluto near the ascendant degree have narrower faces than average, eyes that are intense and often closer together (which enhances the appearance of intensity) higher foreheads, hair that tends to be thinner rather than heavier-thicker, and who exhibit (when younger) quick actions, temper or frequent changes in temperament, broken sleep patterns. All of this is mitigated as they approach teen years.

As noted in an earlier post, Pluto doesn't always work smoothly when in tough aspects with Mercury and Moon -- we are talking about mixing the most personal inner planets with an impersonal outer planet -- all of which can have their own strengths that don't work well with the other's strengths. Hope this helps. Dave

vision777
01-10-2007, 23:02
Thanks Dave. I wanted to know does Pluto has any thing to do with Phones not working or people not being able to commucate? you know like blocked commucation?

dadsnook2000
02-10-2007, 02:42
Not generally. There would have to be very specific ties to specific natal patterns. Perhaps Pluto conjunct Mars, both transiting over natal Mercury and Saturn (hearing) with a progression or two thrown in for good measure. This might signify your cell phone blowing up or something. Dave

willowfox
02-10-2007, 03:00
Thanks Dave. I wanted to know does Pluto has any thing to do with Phones not working or people not being able to commucate? you know like blocked commucation?

No, that would be Mercury playing up.

siren85
02-10-2007, 04:55
I don't really think Pluto is that significant for everyone unless it figures prominately in your chart; i.e. aspecting the Sun, Moon or ASC. I have Pluto conjunct ASC, and honestly, I sometimes think of it as a curse. I hate it at times! yes it makes one very intense and deep, ect., but it also is impossible for you to take life superficially.... always some crisis going on, whether its an external crisis, an emotional crisis, an identity crisis. Its like... enough already, give me a f*cking break! can I just enjoy life without all of this 'transforming' sh*t? nooo... :P also, to make matters worse I am currently going through transit Pluto square natal Venus/Mars. eek! sucky.

And you know whats funny, the card I drew for 'What is my souls purpose for this lifetime' was Death... I associate that card alot with Pluto: transformation, change, ending, rebirth.

If you really want to know more about Pluto in depth, I highly suggest reading donna cunningham's book 'Healing Pluto Problems'. It really goes in depth about alot of issues associated with pluto... violence, sex, death, mental illness, ect. also, another good book on the subject would be 'Pluto: the Evolutionary journey of the soul' by jeff green.

star-lover
03-10-2007, 06:34
pluto conjunct ascendant pain in the jacksie lol but i think a sign that you have something important to do in this lifetime for the world - you dont think you can do it but you do it without realising - like you are an agent of change unconsciously - if you get conscious of it - well woooooohoooo then you get to enjoy it but when you don't know it can be hell

hope that made some sense

i try to think of this planet as a true friend, just like saturn and work with it hard as it can get and despite the reputation they are both VERY forgiving:D

Isarma
03-10-2007, 20:27
Well, opinions are different, but as an astrology student and astrologer I think Pluto is in fact ( in terms of astrology) a very important planet. He moves very slowly, so people from a same generation will have equal plutos in theyr map, BUT they will make different aspects depending on the person. Pluto is like the God of transformation, he tells your potencial to regenerate yourself thru your life experiences, because he is an archetype of life and death.
In the transits, where pluto toutches, e kills, transforms, regenerates, so that's the reason why astrologers give him so much importance. At least all astrologers I know

vision777
04-10-2007, 00:55
I've been thinking about breaking up with my boy friend who I've been with since sept of 1998 I was in my lovers year which is also my personailty card now this year 2007 is once again my lovers year and I just keep noticing that he won't change and it's time to move on but since I am so use to him I keep putting up with the crazy stuff. but I notice around sept 15th he started acting weird like not calling not comming back home lying about things and it has been a very much emotional drain I was wondering is pluto playing a part in this because he is a libra sept 30 1977 and I am a capricorn jan 5th 1980. since sept 16th up until now I have felt powerless when I speak too him and it seems he could care less whats going on and on top of all of that he has been missing work and we have a child together. I am having strong feeling to leave this person but I just wanted to know could the planet pluto be somwhere in my chart where it is urging me to break free of this mess?

willowfox
04-10-2007, 02:47
I have checked his natal chart and Pluto has nothing to do with his behavior, it is Saturn that is the cause of the problem, a few months ago Saturn returned to its natal position at 26 degrees Leo. It is a period of change, his world will feel upside down, relationships, work, everything will suffer, his situation is very unstable for a while, that is why he is acting kind of weird.

siren85
04-10-2007, 04:07
Well, opinions are different, but as an astrology student and astrologer I think Pluto is in fact ( in terms of astrology) a very important planet. He moves very slowly, so people from a same generation will have equal plutos in theyr map, BUT they will make different aspects depending on the person. Pluto is like the God of transformation, he tells your potencial to regenerate yourself thru your life experiences, because he is an archetype of life and death.
In the transits, where pluto toutches, e kills, transforms, regenerates, so that's the reason why astrologers give him so much importance. At least all astrologers I know
yeah, pluto is very important, in regards to transits and synastry. but I've found that it doesn't have that much of a PERSONAL affect unless it's strong in your chart. Thats donna cunningham's view also... your classified as a pluto person/'plutonian' if Pluto is in aspect to your Sun, Moon or ASC. It PERSONALIZES the planet for you.... otherwise, Pluto is a generational planet, it works on a 'collective unconscious' level. You don't feel its affects strongly. Same with any of the other 'generational' planets that move slowly.... Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto... they don't have a big affect on you if they're not strong in your chart. (I'm talking personality wise, day to day... not transits)

vision777
04-10-2007, 07:25
I have checked his natal chart and Pluto has nothing to do with his behavior, it is Saturn that is the cause of the problem, a few months ago Saturn returned to its natal position at 26 degrees Leo. It is a period of change, his world will feel upside down, relationships, work, everything will suffer, his situation is very unstable for a while, that is why he is acting kind of weird.

Thank you, have you checked my natal chart ? because I am a capricorn and I thought only capricorns feel the problems of saturn, I really don't know too much about astrolgy only about which signs get along with each other and what element belongs with the sign.

Neely75
04-10-2007, 12:56
Pluto seems to be having a real transformational effect on me. It's been in Sagittarius for years and is almost ready to move on. I for one am looking forward to it, because I'm tired of the changes!