Some ramblings from Splungeman...

So I just wanted to comment on a few things I've been tossing about in my head over the last couple of week regarding our hobby/path/profession....kind of random and stream of conciousness. But, oh well...maybe we'll get some kind good discussion out of some of it. As my stepfather says, throw enough 'poo' at the wall and some of it is bound to stick. (He didn't say poo though)

To start with...Though I find the abundance of Tarot decks wonderful, I've got this strange selectivity that makes me only want to ever use/try/own a VERY small number of decks for reading.

I encounter a lot of Tarot people both here on this board and elsewhere that say things like, "Oh I got a new deck today...the (insert mystical name here) deck, and I'm going to try it out tonight! I can't wait!" Then later maybe they'll say something like, "I loved it, I got really good accuracy from it! So long to my old (insert mystical name here) deck! This one's my new one!" I'm a bit amazed by that. I don't feel there is anything wrong about that, I just don't think I could ever do that.

I only own two decks currently, the RWS deck and the Thoth deck. Now...I have tried to do a reading with the Thoth deck once, and found it very...I can't think of a good word. Even though I LOOOOOVE the art, I find it too... distracting to use for reading. I'd rather frame all of those cards and hang them on my wall and admire their beauty than read cards with them.

Now I know that the Thoth deck is widely considered to be more "difficult" to read than the RWS, and that the RWS is suppose to be "easier" and good for beginners, but I can't help but completely disagree with all that. How does one gauge what is easy and what is hard when you're talking about a tool for divination? And hey, in that case, wouldn't "easy" be better? If you're trying to discern meanings, messages, and ideas from the cards, why even waste your time with ones that are considered difficult to read? If all you want to do is get from point A to point B, why crawl on your hands and knees when you can just walk or take a car? My response to this is that I don't think the different decks have any innate difficulty levels. It doesn't seem to makes sense for card reading. It makes sense for musical instruments perhaps--mastering a recorder is easier to master than mastering a violin. But not for cards. Read what is comfortable. Read what you like. Now, as any student of Umbrae's can tell you, you can "read" anything you want: bottle caps, clouds, spent .45 shells. But I strongly suspect that the reason Umbrae uses Tarot cards instead of spent .45 shells is that he simply likes Tarot cards better for reading than spent .45 shells. There is no mystical "come hither" coming from Tarot cards, it's just that we like them.

When it comes to choosing one deck over another...the RWS appeals to me and that makes it more readable for me. I am guessing that it appeals to a lot of people and that's why it has endured for so long. We have see plenty of commentary about finding the deck that "speaks" to you, and plenty of criticism of this idea. "But you shouldn't just get any deck you want, you need to get a deck that has more literature out there about it like the RWS for starting out!" "No no...find the deck that speaks to you!"

I say simplify the whole process/statement: Find a deck you like. Screw the literature...make your own literature. Don't stand around waiting for one deck or another to call to you in your dreams. If you like the Tarot of the Capering Jay Leno Gnomes then buy it and read read read.

I must say that I envy those people who can get a new deck every week. How many of you are there anyway...? Are you the majority or the minority? Perhaps I'm just really picky. I like the Thoth deck very much...it is a beautiful piece of art. It just don't like reading with it. It has nothing to do with any kind of mystical draw, and it isn't because it's "harder" to read than the RWS, I don't buy that at all. It's just that I personally find it more useful as wall art than a divination tool.

The only other deck that I think I could ever read is the Alchemical Tarot (Robert Place's). I love it. It has the same appeal that the RWS does. The art is pleasing to me. It holds no mystic power over me. I just like it. Someday, I will save up that 300+ dollars and have him make me one!

Are there any other card curmudgeons out there like me? People who just don't like anything but a very very small number of decks for reading? People who admire other kinds of decks for their art, but just can't ever see themselves reading them?

It's even worse for me. I don't think I really want to even buy any decks other than my preferred two. Tarot shop owners must hate my wretched kind.

Okay...ramblings over. If anyone find anything of use for discussion in there, let's have one.

P.S. For the record, I have read Umbrae's rant about all the decks out there. Consider this an accessory to his rant and partly inspired by it.

Well one grows, changes and their MO can change over time. Like you when I first started (this was 22 years ago though) for a long time I saw no need for loads of decks, just the basic RWS (though I did have a 1971 version I had found at a salavation army) and a Hoi Polloi. Over time it changed into loving the collecing/exploring aspect and switching with complete ease between many divergent decks, that can come with time, practice and knowledge. So don't ever say never on that aspect for yourself! One thing you will find with the Tarot is the immense self-growth, expansion, pushing the boundaries and new perspectives it brings over time. The use of many decks can really deepen your understanding of the cards and bring amazing new aha! moments, startling insights and perspectives that sticking with 1 or 2 sets of images can grow stagnate and limited over time. It shakes things up, at times incredibly so! I wouldn't limit myself to saying "never" "won't" this so very early in your journey with Tarot. I think we've all done it, and realized the folly of any such concrete statements concering a path of such growth

In my opinion as far as the fortune-telling aspect, forgoing any actual study of the many layers Tarot has and letting your intution run free with no foundations can work for some people. It's certainly not the only way, nor gospel for a lot of people. To me, as in most things in life, it's about a balance. Mixing the 2 and blending them together to create the deepest, richest and many-layered reading as possible.

People use the Tarot for many reasons, divination and reading for others being only one aspect, and certainly not the only "legimate" use of this picture book. When I branched out to doing some very intense use of the tarot in shadow, healing and psychological work, I found it was a complete must to have that foundation in study of basic traditional interpertation and knowledge of elements, numerology, astrology and archetypes. With intense personal psychological work it is very very easy to be in denial and self-delusion. Wishful thinking. If you go into this kind of work with only intution to help you along, you won't get very far, you need a general foundation and study so you know when you're lying to yourself and completely off base. Going off on tangents if you will. With this kind of inner work, with the ego bouncing around, you need that balance and moderation even more.

There is no right or wrong way to read and learn. We are all on our own journey, the best way for us will call out to us, and will more than likley (let's hope!) change, evolve and become deeper and richer in time.

As far as there being no mystical come hither within the cards, I disagree. There certainly is and it's symbols and archetypes the star stuff of our personal and collective consciousness, and we are drawn to them not just because we like pictures, but as well they speak in a primal, ancient language of the soul....symbols and images. Yes one can certainly read with bottle caps or tea leaves, but those items don't spark the same resonance within the deepest parts of humans. The Alchemical may hold no mystical power over you, but the images speak to some part of you, a deep part, and it's not just a surface reaction to style or art. Perhaps you define mystical as some "out there" experience that affects you as opposed to something within you.

Miss 6

I definitely feel a mystical come-hither. In fact, that's the only impulse I have to own more decks. I have four, and the RWS and the Thoth are two of them. Another is the Golden Tarot of Klimt, which was a gift I did not expect to receive, and the other is the Buddha Tarot, which I definitely just bought out of deck lust. But it was a mystical lust! I am drawn to decks that speak to different aspects of my spiritual self. I definitely don't want decks that overlap. And I feel that these four each have their own area that they cover for me.

But Splunge, I completely agree with you about ease being a positive quality in a divination tool. The Thoth is indeed hard, but I noticed I had a certain predilection for it, because of all the Kabbalah, so I went for it, and that was definitely the right decision. But I wouldn't dare pick up a Marseilles right here and now and try to read it, even though everybody says it's so deep. And I believe them. But I'm not ready for that yet. If a deck is too hard to read, I'm just going to get frustrated and give up on it. Meanwhile, I still do my best readings with the RWS, even though I'm plugging away diligently at the Book of Thoth, because the RWS images cause meanings to arise for me so easily.

Hype is definitely not a good thing for Tarot. But I do often feel a strong pull to new decks. I think 6 Haunted Days said it perfectly:

6 Haunted Days said:

they speak in a primal, ancient language of the soul

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When a deck speaks my language, or I speak its language, I feel an attraction. And if I feel it can help me express parts of myself I can't express with my other decks, then I want it.

Now, I usually don't indulge this want, because I also feel strongly that I owe it to myself to train rigorously with the decks I have before branching out. But that's a separate question.

I suppose one of the reasons I don't get into the whole "Find a deck that speaks to you," thing is that by saying that, it complicates the issue. It causes people to think too deeply and not go with basic feelings. It's not a complicated thing. If you are contemplating getting your first Tarot deck, or a different Tarot deck, for example, and you've got people telling you that you must find the deck that 'speaks' to you, it adds a perception that makes deck selection more stressful.

"Well...I do like this deck, but how do I know if it's speaking to me?!" It's really a simple process. If you've always loved dragons and have dragon stuff everywhere, and you LOVE the Dragon Tarot, then get it! Don't add the extra layer of, "But does it speak to me?" Why overcomplicate the issue? We should advise people who want to get a Tarot deck to simply look at what's available and pick the one they like.

As for the mystical pull bit. Well, I guess you could call it that, but to me a mystical pull is not a complicated thing. It's deceptively simple. For example, I quickly scanned over the cards available at the bookstore, saw a RWS deck, thought to myself, "I've always liked that one," and grabbed it. Thus began my journey to Tarot, to all the wonderful people on this board...on a whim. I am so glad I did that before hearing anything about finding a deck that speaks to me. I'd have been there all day.

Well, I own exactly two decks, neither of which is the RWS, and one of which I have had to study intently to make heads or tails of (that would be the Buddha Tarot).

I can understand the draw to new decks as artwork. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I also don't think that enjoying the deck art is mutually exclusive with being able to use the deck as a "working" deck.

I think the underlying question is perhaps: "Does the deck you use make a difference in the readings that you give?"

M~

Well finding a deck that "speaks" to you is only as hard you make it. I've never been stressed by it, "Speaking" is only a term for seeing a deck you think to yourself "Wow love those images", and so I get it. Not sure who goes into a long dramatic agonizing question and answer about selecting a deck. Unless of course your hangimg around people interested in Tarot who have obsessive-complusive issues like Monk

The vast majority of advice on selecting decks I've seen on these forums are pretty much "go with a deck you like, that you like the images of". I think you're hung up on semantics, those who say "find a deck that speaks to you" are just saying the same as I said above.

Personally I think that having the thought that you should only have 1 or 2 decks period to work with and no others, might put way more pressure on someone as in "This deck has to be perfect, if I buy too many it's a bad thing, so I'd better get this right".

Heck I don't see why anyone cares. If someone wants 1 or 100 in their collection. Depending on their level of experience it really has no bearing on anything.

The only decks I seem to be able to read are the RWS based decks and it's because of the details, the more action in the cards the more I pick up on (and there can never be enough), I need all those little clues as they are highlights of my readings. My 2 main decks are RWS and Hanson Roberts (I have the best readings with this one and who woulda knew it's kinda whimsical and I didn't really think it was my style when I bought it years ago and it sat on the shelf for a long time before I really started working with it) but I have 4 that I use regularly, it depends on the reading. Different decks give different ideas to consider. I go on deck buying frenzies when I get sick of seeing the same old thing reading after reading and want and need new ideas, it's very rare that I can find one that I really "speaks" my language. In my 15 or more years of reading there's been only 3 that I can read well and now I might have found another, it's like trying to find a needle in a hay stack So the rest I add to my collection and I'll pull them out every so often and "look at them". I enjoy collecting decks and am kinda proud of them

For one, I should be spending my money on bills instead of new decks hehe. Even if I did own more than one deck, I think I would find it very hard to choose which deck to use when. (Like I said in another thread, when I had the family Aquarian deck I used that for family matters, because that's what made sense to me.) I definitely would never want to abandon my Tarot of a Moon Garden, that's for sure!

6 Haunted Days said:

Well finding a deck that "speaks" to you is only as hard you make it. I've never been stressed by it, "Speaking" is only a term for seeing a deck you think to yourself "Wow love those images", and so I get it. Not sure who goes into a long dramatic agonizing question and answer about selecting a deck. Unless of course your hangimg around people interested in Tarot who have obsessive-complusive issues like Monk

The vast majority of advice on selecting decks I've seen on these forums are pretty much "go with a deck you like, that you like the images of". I think you're hung up on semantics, those who say "find a deck that speaks to you" are just saying the same as I said above.

Personally I think that having the thought that you should only have 1 or 2 decks period to work with and no others, might put way more pressure on someone as in "This deck has to be perfect, if I buy too many it's a bad thing, so I'd better get this right".

Heck I don't see why anyone cares. If someone wants 1 or 100 in their collection. Depending on their level of experience it really has no bearing on anything.

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Looking back, I should have posted a couple of threads on two different topics, but my brain cup runneth over I suppose and I just dumped it all out into one post with no definite point. I will now attempt to clarify my stance on some things...

First, I have no problem with people who like buying deck after deck after deck and switching them out all the time. I actually kind of admire it. I just don't know if I can do that. I try to read with the Thoth deck and I get...nothing. Well...not nothing...just not nearly what I get with RWS. I look at other decks, admire their artwork and the different takes on the cards, but I just don't see myself reading them. Maybe eventually I'll start accumulating decks by the bunch and reading them all, but I doubt it. So far the only one I want is the Alchemical. Of course it's the one that is hard to get ahold of without spending lots of money. Just my luck.

Second, as far as decks that may or may not "speak" to you or not. It is semantics, but I've seen lots of different and elaborate suggestions for finding the deck that "speaks" to you. Though many of us may be aware that it's a simple matter of taste, there are many who obvioiusly feel that it has to be more complicated. I think it is doing people a disservice by trying to make it more than it is. The mystical, profound stuff comes from the practice of reading a deck, not selecting one. Selecting a deck is/should be the easy part. The stuff afterwards is the journey!

Splungeman said:

I think it is doing people a disservice by trying to make it more than it is. The mystical, profound stuff comes from the practice of reading a deck, not selecting one. Selecting a deck is/should be the easy part. The stuff afterwards is the journey!

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Very much agreed. The magic comes from interacting with deck, you and the images swirl around.