View Full Version : Umbrae asks: "Why do you read Tarot?"
Talisman
01-11-2002, 15:57
'Lo all,
In a thread started by neptune, on shuffling and cutting the deck, always a great topic, there was a little hitch in the path it was following.
Umbrae suggested that if you read Tarot, and have a talent for it, you SHOULD read for others and help your fellow man. I said, "No way."
In the course of this little side note to the thread, Umbrae asked:
"Why do you read Tarot?"
Umbrae aslo advised thinking about the answser very carefully.
So as not to junk up neptune's thread any more, I decided to do a new thread.
I know my answer, but it would be long winded to explain it, and that would kill this thread before it started. So, I'll leave it to you guys, and am interested in both questions: Should you/shouldn't you, -- and why?
Talisman
Well, one big reason I read Tarot is because it's the one thing in my life that I have complete control over in terms of what I want to do with it. I do it because I enjoy it, and I can do exactly what I want with it. I can switch decks, I can switch interpretive approaches, I can read for others or not, as I see fit. There are of course ethical considerations when reading for others, but other than that, if anyone wants to tell me I "should" do something with Tarot, I am most likely to laugh in their face and then do the opposite.
-- Lee :)
Demonesse
01-11-2002, 17:17
I wouldn't say I have "complete control" over a reading - obviously because there's no way one can guarantee what cards will appear, just try to suit them best as one can to one's situation at hand. And NO, I do not feel any duty to read for my fellow man, since many would:
1) Not appreciate my efforts
2) Laugh their heads off
3) Say "what nonsense"
4) Politely decline.
:smoker: And like Lee, I have a perverse quality in me that does exactly the opposite when someone has the temerity to tell me I "should". In - most - cases, that is. I do not feel any such duty, any more than I have a duty to sweep everyone's sidewalks just because I know how to hold a broom.
However, I must clarify that I think reading for others is a good thing, that it helps them to understand their situations at hand better (I plan to offer a reading on the exchange forum soon), but just that it is not a MUST for me to do so - help if you wish, there's no moral and ethical coercion to do so.
I must admit that "should" in relation to Tarot reading does not feel right. Tarot does not seem to me like a gift, so much as opening something that was always there and which I never used to use. I haven't decided if everyone could read if they just tried, or not. Since most people don't ever try, it would be impossible to say.
Lots and lots of folks who would not even try to read, nonetheless want readings. I find that strange, being a do-it-yourself kinda gal. As for, 'they need' readings. Well, I wonder. There are many ways to work things through, spiritual, mundane, silly even just letting time pass. Tarot is one path, but if it were the only path, a lot of people would be in major trouble!
I do not think that I have an obligation to read for anyone, at any time. I do quite often, because I enjoy it, but I don't think I have to do so.
I read as a request to the Immanent All: show me, tell me.
Reading for others is part of that.
I read for the same reasons I write - because I want to; sometimes am even compelled to, not by any outside force but by something inside me. Because I enjoy it, both the action and the result.
For myself, tarot seems to help me find alternate ways to solve situations I might be in, and sometimes even a little bit of advance notice on upcoming events. And, as Umbrae himself has said, to open doors I usually keep closed. :)
At this point I (still) only read rarely for others, in spite of my good intentions to use the reading exchange. :D I don't plan to charge money when I read for friends in person, although I am thinking about asking for something else - a memory, or an opinion about something.
wavebreaker
01-11-2002, 19:09
I started reading tarot because I thought it would be "fun". But the more I used it and the more I learned about it, the more I realised what a powerful tool it was.
Now that I'm beginning to realise, in looking back, how much tarot has helped me and changed me in a positive way, I'd like to share what I've learned. I don't see that as an obligation, but as something I want to do.
This morning I offered a reading to someone whose views on tarot I didn't know. I offered her the reading because she seemed at a loss about some stuff that was bothering her. Even though she didn't really know what to think of tarot, she accepted the reading and was very grateful for the offer!
I haven't done the reading yet though, so I hope I'm not going to disappoint her... ;)
Do not misunderstand me – I think that reading for yourself is fine and dandy.
So is driving alone…you can pick up hitchhikers…and help them.
I see so many talented folks here – that do not take their talents outside the house. They box it up and refuse to share – they talk about family, friends, and being ostracized from their immediate community…
For kraps sake, there are a couple billion people on this planet all feeling a little lost…that lost woman in the coffee shop! She was lost…you do not have to find her, just provide a signpost.
I am not waffling – I am providing an unpopular opinion.
The world is a huge place. Filled with people who need each one of us – as we are – and we have much to share – and do not share enough.
We worry…what will they think…what if I’m wrong. Did I shuffle the deck enough? Did I have them cut with the correct hand? What if it’s the wrong deck?
Just a glimmer of hope – a small beacon in the night for lost souls in the tumultuous sea of today’s chaotic world.
After all if ANY of you feel lost I expect a PM…you all know that I am here for each one of you…but the cost is steep – you’d have to help another…
Here is a question. You need to think about the answer very carefully.
Why do you read Tarot?
Is it to be cool, different, witchy, and strange – pick up girls, boys, have something to talk about in a group?
Alternatively, is it because you have a calling to a more spiritual path in life, and Tarot is a thing in of and upon that path? A tool that helps point the way whilst upon that spiritual path.
If you are upon the latter, than look deep within. Sometimes we get too busy, and forget to ‘really see’. We never lose the magic; we instead turn our backs to it.
We all need each others help, that is why we are here, to preserve and rekindle, the harmony. Needing help and accepting it does not make you weak. Turning your back on who you are is weakness.
If we really wish to follow a spiritual path – then we have to do for others.
So, you feel deep inside that you cannot read for that lost woman…buy her a cup of coffee and offer to talk…just talk.
Two things – and then you have my permission tear me apart…
Do good and do not worry to whom.
The world will seem brighter when you do things for others, instead of just ourselves...
And when I mandate that we should help others - it be not always with a deck in hand...
Thought it was fun(still is! LOL!). Don't use it much for divination any more. I mainly use it for magick now.
StargazerLily
01-11-2002, 19:30
I got into tarot because I am trying to find a purpose in life. I'm not saying that tarot is my purpose in life--but it's a good place for me to start. My boyfriend was very depressed and suicidal until he found spirituality. I want that same assurance and peace and he recommend that I find some kind of spirituality for myself--which is hard for me because I'm rather skeptical.
I'm new to tarot so I don't offer readings to others, but I definitely will when I cam confident in my abilities.
The reason for my very first dabbling in tarot (about 7 years ago) was because I saw the Cat People deck in a store and I had to have it!
What a profound question! Yet, I wonder if it can properly be answered.
If I generalise the question a little, it may possibly assist me to attempt some kind of answer - so I'll first ask 'why do I do anything?' It seems to me that there are a number of factors which come at play, the three which come to mind are: one's dispositions based on one's individual and developing character traits;
immediate motives; and
the situation at hand.Of these, the first certainly presents driving forces for particular kinds of acts of will based on the ever-slowly-changing biography of the individual. Do we tend to respond because of biological, psychological or societal urges and expectations? Are we more likely to respond because of accompanying feelings (such as shame, loyalty, love, revenge &c)? Do we reflect upon similar situations? Or do we try to reach an understanding or insight into the specific situation at hand?
Likewise the second point: are the motives a result of utilitarian or deontological ('shoulds') considerations, or a grasping of the specific situation at hand?
For me, to understand why I may do something (as opposed to just doing it), I would need to look at these considerations - which have, incidentally, high ethical content.
Why do I read Tarot? To be truthful I would need to give a reply for each instance I read - and the replies would vary vastly, and, to be sure, would include: for pleasure, for spiritual work, to assist another, to strive to add to understanding, to assist in the development of the imaginative, inspirational and intuitive faculties, for curiosity, because of my love for Tarot!
lawguy51
01-11-2002, 20:33
Have to side with Umbrae, I just wish I had the same passion. I got into this because I don't accept the rules as they are written, because you can never have too much knowledge, I love to learn and because I 'believe' in the power of intuition. But I can understand why some people balk at reading for other people. They are probably the same people who have difficulty addressing an audience or getting up on stage. It takes guts to go out on a limb in front of someone and it requires performance. Which isn't to say that those of you who do not read for others are scared to, it's just that public performance is not for everybody. But I have to agree with Umbrae, if you have a creator-given talent, it's a pity not to impart it to your fellow human beings and help them, if even a little, to deal with their lives and provide some spiritual enlightenment. One of my closest friends is an extremely successful clairvoyant, gets flown all over the place for readings. But for years, she denied her ability and did not share it. Until, eventually, she realized that her gift was just that, and to not use it to help people was a waste. So I encourage everybody to just give it a try. Being schooled and experienced in performance, I have jumped in early with readings for others, people I know and in the Readings section. And I've got to tell you, it's an amazing rush when you nail a reading. Not so much an ego thing, but a great, quiet feeling of accomplishment coupled with the humbling knowledge that you have drawn upon something greater than yourself in order to come to the aid of a fellow human being in need of answers and direction.
sparrowspirit
01-11-2002, 20:35
Hello folks,
This is a very interesting topic. It seems to me that there are two questions being asked here; 1- why do you personally read tarot, and 2- is there an imperative to read for others if you do read tarot?
For question 1 - my experience with tarot is very limited, but for me, exploring tarot has been part of my spiritual journey. I have seen here at Aeclectic and in other books I've read that tarot can be used for social purposes, creative purposes and intellectual purposes.
I see question 2 as applying especially if one is pursuing tarot for spiritual growth. I am with Umbrae in that I do believe that all spiritual disciplines require service to others in some form or other. Of course, I suppose that there is the occassional "hermit" who can attain enlightenment in solitude. But it is my belief that the main purpose for our being here in the "earth school" is to learn to "love and be loved". Making a commitment to service can teach us love and acceptance of others, (and ourselves), in ways that no other work can. The greatest expression love is selfless service to others.
So, I'll come off the soap box now. :)
Just my humble opinion.
Sparrow
Fuzzmello
01-11-2002, 22:52
I read Tarot because it's the most reliable form of divination I know. There - I said it.
I want to understand that which leaves it traces on all my senses, refusing to be seen, heard, smelled, touched, or felt straight-on. If I can catch a glimpse by looking at odd little pictures printed on cardboard, so be it. (There has been I time in my life when I seriously studied patterns of moss growing on trees. Can this be more weird? Uh-uhh.)
It's just not possible to keep the findings to myself and become more sensitive to this unnameable thing I'm trying to describe. I have to give it away if I want it to draw closer, so I do readings for other people but I charge them money.
If I do it for free, they discount the wonder they've just experienced and that's not good for them or it. I do readings for free if I'm moved to do so, and never otherwise. Friends pay unless I'm moved. Family pays unless I'm moved.
Tarot's been knocked and I've been ridiculed, but the traces on my senses continues and so, I read.
Fuzz
Here is my two bobs worth
I read my Tarot to give guidence to an situation or problem I may be worried about or I have, that needs a immediate answer. Rather than waiting to see the outcome for it's self.
How we interpret our readinigs and their outcomes relies heavily on how we feel emotionaly at the time again and subconciously. An answer has many meanings and sometime we are all caught off guard when we interpret one way only to see the result another.
It is for this reason that I am very cautious when giving a friend a reading as Emotions can cloud a true result our a card can turn your best friend into a very hurt one.... Unless the person that I am doing a reading for understands Tarot Cards and how they work and how seriously they take the reading depends on if I will do it or not..
I have been caught once when a friend thought it would be fun to do a reading and did not get a happy result, she ignored the interpretation to only have it manifest several months later...guess who go the blame!!!! Not the cards thats for Sure...
Sometimes the least said the soonest mended..
JO
DarkElectric
02-11-2002, 01:29
I read cards, because I really like them, I apparently have a knack for them, it's fun, and the information I give people (even when it's not all roses) really seems to help them out. Even readings where the news was not too good, people told me they were glad to hear it, it either confirmed a suspicion about a given situation, or they felt like options had been presented that they weren't able to see before.
And if you're nice about it, and present them with options and possible alternatives, they'll appreciate it. Sometimes, all people need is a different way of looking at something, so they don't feel trapped, or completely powerless. Little things mean a lot.
This is what I've found in my experience.
I read tarot because it helps me to deal with people. I've always had something of an issue with other folks' emotional states and chaotic-seeming reactions.
In person, I have something that psychologists call "diminished affect." While I have emotional reactions, I don't signal them physically. There's a major part of me that can sit aside and calmly consider all kinds of tales of woe and horror. The flip side is that I don't pick up on a lot of non-verbal cues that other people assume I should. This actually makes me good at my job, but it plays hell with more personal relationships.
Tarot helps me deal with the things I have trouble with. It gives an abstract symbol system that I can refer to, that enables me to relate to what they are feeling as well as what they are saying. It is complex enough that it can deal with those things, and simple enough that it fits in my briefcase easily. Even if I don't actually read for people, I can relate to them by relating to the symbol system.
Why do I read Tarot for myself? It seems silly to me to not use every tool at one's disposal to avert disaster or to solve problems. I don't drive with my eyes closed.
Why do I read Tarot for others? Because sometimes I seek advice from others. Turnabout is fair play. But, I don't offer readings to everyone. If someone asks for a reading, chances are, I'll do it. Stranger, acquaintance, friend, or family.
Hmmm, after reading the other posts on this topic I thought my first answer might not have completely answered the question, and made me think about my answer some more...
I was drawn to tarot when I was a child, because I had always been interested in the unknown. I don't mean that just in a "Ghostbusters" way, if you know what I mean. :) When I was growing up, my family knew I had...something. For myself, I don't think of it as being psychic - because the definition doesn't fit what I have, IMO.
I started reading tarot, and still read it, so I can connect with whatever it is more often. I don't consider it a spiritual thing, although some might. It's kind of just there, like eyesight, or a sense of smell.
My family encouraged me to not make a big deal out of it - that it was a private, personal thing - although not a bad thing. After reading this thread, I've realised that's probably why I have always been so reluctant to read for anyone but family or *very* close friends. And that's not a very good reason, so it must be time to move ahead. :) So, thanks. I like learning new things.
I started to read at a difficult time in my life when I needed to find a way to help clarify things. This spread to reading for others, but I don't read for the public - always people I know. Some may say that this creates an unfair advantage - but if the goal is help provide direction for soemone, then it should not matter. That's just my opinion.
hooknlace
02-11-2002, 21:57
I've recently begun what could probably be called a spiritual quest. I'm studying Wicca, Kabbalah, Diety from all cultures, and whatever other I can get my hands on. Tarot was suggested as a tool for meditation, concentration, connection, understanding.
Stargazer mentioned her skepticism, and I'm right there with her - but at the same time I'm completely certain that the house I grew up in had a ghost. So I think part of my interest in tarot is my desire to bring the two sides of my brain together, to get the accountant in me loosen up.
Of course, I'm still pretty new to tarot, so I'm only comfortable reading for my husband, or maybe close friends. Perhaps when I've gotten more time with it, I'll have a different view.
I do agree that the world needs more personal interaction, and that helping others is a great gift, both to the giver and the receiver. But tarot is not my gift to give.
Blessed be,
hooknlace
Sea Sprite
03-11-2002, 04:06
I recently got into tarot cards because I am in search of spirituality.
I'm very new to tarot cards so I lack the proficiency required to read for others, but I definitely will when I become proficient in my abilities.
Why do I read tarot??? My answer is very simple. I enjoy reading tarot. I had been very curious about tarot for a while and one day decided to get a deck. I was very intimidated by them at first. Then realized that I was able to learn the card meanings and was actually good at readings.
I have enjoyed learning the cards, learning speads, learning the history of tarot and being member of this forum. I enjoy studying my cards, meditating on my cards, pulling a daily card for myself. I enjoy doing readings for others. I like being able to use a talent that I have and enjoy to somehow help others.
My whole life the past few years has been a spiritual journey. Tarot is just a small part of that. A part I enjoy very much.
I simple enjoy tarot.
Dianne
is that of "what do you live for" rather than why do you read Tarot, runes, Tea leaves etc.
It is in part a product of modern life, that we forgett very often what we humans are all about. We tend to become somewhat self-centered and look infinetly inside and when we do that we find no answers, no matter how insightfull the Tarot, the I-ching , the runes or the psychoanalyst might be.
It is easy to forgett how much helping other people can make us feel rewarded; to forgett that we are part of something bigger than our petty personal concerns.
There used to be an old man in my ap/complex who was like that, always ready to give people a smile and to listen to them. Right after my divorce he used to come by my door ask if I needed something and every once in a while he would give me a big hug and say I was gonna be OK. I never asked anything of him or anybody, and I'm sure very few people knew how distressed I was. But that made all the difference to me, having a total stranger ready to offer me simple things like a smille, a hug, a cup of coffee and a chat in the evening. He is still in the neighborhood, often seen hugging people in the supermarket, offering help to carry their bags or simply distributing smiles.
I'm not sure it matters why we read Tarot or fix computers or collect trash as long as we can remember our place in the world and that real satisfaction comes from giving.
Alex.
Joywalker
03-11-2002, 21:11
When I started with Tarot,it was out of curiosity.
Then it become a fascination.Later,it slowly become frightening because of the accuracy.(That was 10 years ago.)
Now,I do it because I want to help people and I'm glad I could do so!
i read the tarot currently to know, to test myself, to learn.
i am currently reading a lot of tarot book to understand the higher aspects of tarot like
1. numerology
2. kabbalah
and hopefully will get into the astrology( i know i will in the long run ehh)
so i see the tarot as the key to it all , (from a book )
and more then it all,, as the universal archetypes go much deeper then we can comhrehend or do they.
it all depends on how far we want to go into the images,, meanings, teachings. of the tarot ,
so why i read the tarot is to pratice learning, what i am learning in books :O)
Joywalker A-
Hooknlace B
Lawguy51 B
Sparrowspirit B+
To everybody else who has already responded:
Your assignment is being returned as incomplete.
On a serious note here…
Read this and follow the directions. Leave your computer – go get your favorite reading deck and a pad and paper
Make a cup of tea (or coffee) and get comfortable. Relax.
Shuffle the deck a couple of times – Now…SMELL THE DECK. Stick your nose right in there and INHALE!
What is the thought, not the smell, when you smell the deck, what is the thought? Take notes! What does the aroma say to you.
Then come back and write about it. What was triggered in your brain. Why do you read tarot?
Anybody who posts what the deck smelled like fails the course. You will not get a piece of paper.
To everybody who has not posted:
There are only two possible responses to, “Why do you read Tarot”?
You either read for Spiritual or Secular reasons. That is it! That’s all there is…now figure out in the scheme of things which one is you.
There is nothing wrong with reading tarot for very secular reasons – as long as you are aware that is what you are doing, and not deluding yourself.
There is nothing wrong with reading tarot for spiritual reasons – as long as you are aware that it is what you are doing, and not deluding yourself.
Both have different responsibilities. The responsibilities are vital; they are the reason it is important understand why you read tarot.
We shall discuss responsibilities soon.
i didnt' think i would get graded on such an open ended question.
:O(
but i think the responsiblities would fall under a new thread eheh.
(what does secular mean )
i wouldnt' say i am doing it for spiritual reasons right not but mental reasons. eheh
i want to get the point where they come for a reading and get astrology, numerology, nameology, tarot reading,,and a bit of channeling towards the end (after i practice for another five years eheh)
so you see what is why i am really learning to read the tarot at the deeper and higher levels to be the best, and apply that knowledge in a crisscross system,
Joywalker
03-11-2002, 22:22
Thanks Umbrae for the A-,
But I don't understand why did I get it and why there's a need to grade the response/answers.
joywalker i was teasing umbrae as he was kididng us about the grades,
i suspect they mean we are close to satisfying what he wants to hear and is not meant to disrespect :O)
Joywalker
03-11-2002, 22:52
AH! I see... :D
He sounded so serious that I thought it was some kind of test!! ;)
Looking forward to the thread on responsibility.I think this is very important,especially for those who read for others.
*passes diana a study hall pass, it is ok study some more :O)*
aye i agree diana it is possible to be both non religious, worldy and very spiritual consider the 7 of pentacles card where the man is taking stock of the crop in the rider waite system.
my old grandpa used to have a strawberry garden, (did transplanting and such , it still confuses me what he did)
but he had the biggest nice strawberries in his garden.
(i remember mostly the strawberries) and had some raspberries.
to me he was spiritual, and worldy, (he was a bootlegger in his old age, )((just a few cases of beer here and there))
and knew who to trust and not to trust, and i guess he can was in the gray area of the tree of life.
i think when it comes to study the tarot ,, there is a line we all make for ourselves at some point.
1. how much do i want to invest into the study (secular vs worldy if no means are hand)
2.do i want to do magic or not ( it changes a person not necessary for the words like in the black magic sense, eheh
but i mean it takes away a person kind of innocent to the craft you might say and begin applying it here and there in one own life if they go that route)
3. do we help out on cases where people need help ?(that too is a line that is kind of drawn once we cross over,, it never turns into just this one time. )
4. do i just try to learn a little bit about kabbalah , and numerology and astrology to get by ?(a little bit is never enough , right tarotacholics ?)
5. how much can we tell, how much can we share ,, ,
(once we start telling people we read the tarot ,, it spreads,
example i had a person come up to me on the street and say hey you the one who read the tarot cards right, and i said yes) ((didn't even know him))
so one must be both seculare, spiritualit , and also i feel idealistic,, to give us soemthing to strive for
Major Tom
04-11-2002, 03:32
Talisman - I'm so glad you're back. You do bring up the most interesting topics. I'm still waiting for a story from the great white north (or was it the end of the road)? Please?
Why do I read tarot?
It's simple really. I read tarot to provide myself with the information I need to produce the outcomes I want.
Some would call this a secular approach.
I want to do myself good. Often, I find that the best good I can do myself is to do good for others. Tarot helped me discover this.
My friend Umbrae only seeks to hasten others' discovery.
My personal opinion is that some things cannot be rushed. :)
I'm always wary of 'shoulds'. You can do what you want to do.
But if you learn the tarot, you'll find yourself helping other people. })
I'm afraid if Umbrae had graded my response, it would have been given a Z! })
-- Lee :)
who accept such dichotomy AND fail to see where both meet.
People have been known to achieve a more than ordinary spirituality through the study of a "somewhat" kind of secular knowledge as "quantum physics"; and had they been asked the reason why they started out in first place, would their answer be accurate?
Alex.
Originally posted by Umbrae
You either read for Spiritual or Secular reasons. That is it! That’s all there is…now figure out in the scheme of things which one is you.
sparrowspirit
04-11-2002, 19:10
But I want an A!!! What do I have to do to improve my grade?! (Sparrow in over-achievement mode) :)
On the question of secular vs. spiritual:
We have no choice but to act in the secular world...that's where we are. To some degree, I think the difference has to do with intention. Although there seem to be those individuals who give of themselves and live a very spiritually "pure" life without even being aware of it.
I also believe that any and all secular pursuits can lead to spiritual growth and realization. Again, for the most part it has to do with intent and the dedication to do the best possible job of whatever it is. It might not seem spiritually fulfilling to do menial tasks, or "dirty work", but the world wouldn't turn without all of the work getting done. It has to be done by someone. And if a person feels connected to the "whole" by doing his/her little piece, then that counts as spiritual intent.
Sparrow
spritual or secular? i find that i can no longer keep the spiritual out of the 'secular' areas of my life.
why do i read tarot? to evolve/grow/heal. i would never be able to evolve/grow/heal very far, without helping others.
Originally posted by sparrowspirit
But I want an A!!! What do I have to do to improve my grade?! (Sparrow in over-achievement mode) :)
I gather from the above that you haven't been in the formal educational system for time enough yet.
After 32 years of that (I started school when I was 2 and never stopped) I decided that I'd had it and now I only deliver grades. Being graded by somebody else, never more.
;-)
Alex.
sparrowspirit
04-11-2002, 20:43
Originally posted by Alex
I gather from the above that you haven't been in the formal educational system for time enough yet.
Alex.
LOL...actually I have 20 years of "formal" education under my belt, but being a student of life, I guess I'll never be done with my "informal" education. And I am a beginner at tarot, so feedback from other, more advanced students is always helpful, (I'm not necessarily looking for grades on all of my posts, so don't get any ideas :D ).
Sparrow
Back on page three, where I “gave out grades” (Clue: They are a joke); I provided an exercise.
I would really like some folks to follow through with it.
It is not that I am attempting to force structure upon the thread, but there is a point (you see, if you argue, you have missed the entire point of the thread…).
Take a second and read the responses…
“So, Mr. Bellwether, tell us please, why do you smoke?”
“I smoke because I am addicted.”
“No, Mr. Bellwether, you are addicted because you smoke. Being addicted has nothing to do with smoking…so tell us Mr. Bellwether, why do you smoke?”
So…why do you read?
I would really like you to go back and actually do the exercise on page 3 – and approach it in a serious manner.
to touch the invisible, to connect with the unknowable. to understand the mysterious. to listen to the universe....
SherryZoned
04-11-2002, 23:16
I agree with zorya....I have really thought about why i read tarot..and i still dont have an answer...I have thought from what you said Umbrae...that it is a responsibility....and why have a license if you dont drive..(sorry didnt go back and get the direct quote)..well Some people should not be on the road! Then i was thinking..(HAHA)........That tarot isnt my gift to give (like someone else said)...tarot is what brought me to this forum...to making new friends...to shamanism...to me having harmony in my life..tarot was the door..not the gift....I listen to people and there problems give advice if they want it..sometimes if they dont hehe...and people listen to me when i have issues..
Tarot could be my responsibility to myself..not others...I am not arguing..just thinking out loud...How can i help others if i have not fully given the gift to myself? Understanding me? am i understanding myself? LOL
with kids..if you are in a bad mood they feel it..so if you are unbalanced they feel...tarot was the door to my balance..tot he door to take care of my sons problems...tarot was the door to see the good in other people..to have more faith..yada yada...So tarot was my responsibility to me...and maybe subtley to others..and someday i may do more readings for others...I dont know..all i know is..for me tarot is that Door that brought me here...and I am very thankful for it..
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8766
Now this is a great example of 'why one reads' - Zorya and Redwood get A's.
fairyhedgehog
05-11-2002, 04:07
Okay, I've got the message. Umbrae, for you reading for others is important and the world is neatly divided into spiritual and secular. You feel so strongly about it that you want to persuade everyone to your point of view - even to the point of giving joke grades for folks' posts.
For me, nothing is that simple and I feel that dichotomies always tell a partial truth. I joke that the world isn't black and white, it is in glorious technicolour - well, glorious colour anyway. (Btw, that isn't a spelling mistake, it's the British spelling.)
I am an atheist and a materialist, so when I use the word 'spiritual' it doesn't have quite the same meaning as it does when a theist uses it. But I don't split the world neatly into spiritual and secular. And I don't think the question of reading for others is simple either.
There is the question of how welcome tarot would be for a start: round here, tarot is seen as probably a bad influence, and I work with children, so certainly at work it is a no-no.
There is the question of what would I be offering? In my mind, a simple story-making exercise, but my fear is that others would take it more seriously.
But that doesn't mean that my use of Tarot is purely secular because it is only for me. I matter too, and the kind of person I am becoming affects those around me.
So, an alternative view to yours, Umbrae.
Major Tom
05-11-2002, 04:12
It took me a while to realise this thread belongs in Talking Tarot. })
Co-moderator Using Tarot Cards
Originally posted by Umbrae
It is not that I am attempting to force structure upon the thread, but there is a point (you see, if you argue, you have missed the entire point of the thread…). <...>
I would really like you to go back and actually do the exercise on page 3 – and approach it in a serious manner. It seems to me there is also the possibility that we may have approached it in a serious manner, and we may understand the entire point of the thread, yet still disagree with it...
-- Lee <avoiding a smiley face so as not to be thought unserious>
Major Tom
05-11-2002, 09:10
Originally posted by Diana
It's not being a Tarot reader that necessarily counts. It is using what Tarot teaches you that is important. Well, for me, anyway.
Well said my friend. :)
All sorts of things you can do with tarot besides reading.
I like using what I learn - sometimes it's a slow process. :|
I read Tarot for the spiritual knowledge it offers. In that sense, I echo what Diana said. It has been & continues to be my teacher. It has opened new doors to knowledge & understanding; expanded my view of life.
In my experience, knowledge always confers responsibility. What is the point of gaining knowledge if one has not the understanding to apply it in every way possible? So whilst at first my intentions were for self-knowledge & not for divination, almost immediately, I realized I could read with it for myself & for others. In that way, it is like with the regular playing cards I used for readings: a means to be of service; to help others as well as the self.
Talisman
05-11-2002, 10:33
'Lo all,
" . . . to listen to the universe . . . "
-- zorya
Boy, a whole lot'a serious goin' on around here. And absolutely fascinating responses.
Secular vs. spiritual? Well, I figure if the ankle bone is connected to the knee bone, there's probably something in between.
Umbrae, you don't have to tell me my grade. Sometimes my intuition kicks in full force, as when in falling off a ladder and I get half way down, I think "Oh Oh!"
A responsibility to read for others? I think not. A story:
I'm a little boy, sitting in the very back of a classroom. I'm in the very back because the teacher -- her real name was Miss Stringfellow -- sits the brightest kids up front and so on back until you get to where I was. Any further back and I'd be on the playground, which is where I'd rather be. Staring out the window, trapped in absolute misery.
Time has stopped, the bell to release us will never ring. I'd rather be anywhere than here. Even in extreme danger. (Well, not the principal's office, not that extreme.) But say on a pirate ship fighting a desperate battle with cannon and cutlasses on the high seas. Or, a drummer boy bravely marching in the front and leading the Fore and Aft into deadly battle. Or--
Oh Oh! Miss Stringfellow is calling me to the front of the room. Now, even though I'm way back in Dumbville, I've figured out that she only calls on me when she wants to exhibit an example of extreme blockheadism to the rest of the class. A bad example for the rest not to follow.
She hands me a piece of chalk and directs me to the blackboard. They've been diagramming sentences. It looks like you draw a line and then other lines angling and branching off from that and then write the individual words of the sentences on those angles and branches.
I can't imagine what they think they are up to with this bizarre excercise. It looks plumb goofy, and whatever rational there might be, it never penetrated to the far off region where I sat.
Still, I launch into the project, drawing my lines and writing in the words, and I'm really cooking, my pattern is at least as good as any of the others and maybe even--
And I become aware of the sound behind me. Starts as a few stiffled snickers and builds up to full scale laughter. And I turn around and Miss Stringfellow is rolling her eyes back in her head. As recompense for the total humiliation, I snitch the piece of chalk, palming it as I jam my hands down in my pockets and slink back to my desk.
As I slump down in my seat, a kid who shares this remote outpost with me, a kid with the intellectual firepower of a brick, whispers out of the side of his mouth, "Boy, that was REALLY dumb!"
Now, this whole thing started when I told a story in another thread about a woman, a stranger with the kind of smile that makes you fall a little bit in love, asked me to read the Tarot cards for her at an outdoor cafe, and I told her I can't, and Umbrae chastised me for this. (I think telling stories is how I attempt to understand the world.)
(But, imagine I did attempt to read the cards for her. So, I'm laying out the cards, and relating them one to another, and weaving the story I see, and I look up and see the woman's eyes roll back like Miss Stringfellow's, and she says, "This is the most preposterous farrago I've ever heard!" No, no! Wait! She's very kind, and instead she says, "I know you're really trying, but this is really dumb.")
I am not saying any of you shouldn't read the cards for other people. But, I think Umbrae is wrong in thinking everyone has a responsibility to read the cards for others, and if you can't figure out why I think so, then you belong here in the back of the class with me. I won't because I can't. I can't diagram sentences, either.
I'll do my small part to make the world a better place by NOT reading for others.
As for determining whether my use of the cards is spiritual or secular, well how'n hell would I know? To again quote zorya, I'll lay out my cards "to listen to the universe." 'Course, maybe all I'll hear is the sounds of silence. Life in the back of the class.
Talisman
There are a couple of you, that need to stand over here on the trap-door...BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ...wrong answer....
I did not say that your prime responsability is to help others with tarot...I stated that your prime responsability becomes...
to help others...There is a difference.
And NO...I do not see things nor classify them as black and white - that is a rhetorical tool to ease the stating of ideas. I see the world as grey scale...So don't shove coulours down my thoat - I am quite colour blind.
However, we are putting the cart before the horse...
"Why do you read tarot..." must be answered first!
fairyhedgehog
05-11-2002, 13:25
Talisman, I don't know where to begin in responding to your post , which moved me very much.
We are all in very different places from each other and I suppose on different paths. No wonder we all see the world so differently when we have not all had the same experiences. (Although one primary teacher made us stand on our chair in maths lessons until we had answered a question correctly and that at least gives me some fellow-feeling for what you went through.)
Personally I read the cards for fun and for pleasure. It seems like one way to work with the side of me that I think of as spiritual. It's a way of relaxing and taking time out. Sometimes it's a way of connecting with my son (16) who comes up with some wonderful card interpretations at times :)
Demonesse
05-11-2002, 13:50
I read the cards out of a desire to understand myself - traits, characteristics, and how I respond to situations better, as well as the elements that surround many of the situations in my life; to increase the depth of mental perception and comprehension. I also read out of a sense of appreciation of the functional beauty of the cards, and pure fun.
When I read for others, it is not *purely* out of desire to help and definetely not out of RESPONSIBILITY to help, but also a desire to understand another's situations and difficulties, and to test myself - what have I attained in the realm of reading, so far? Just by listening to a brief summary of another's problem, can I actually accurately interpret it using tarot cards?
When I read for myself, and when I read for others, it is usually a completely different experience, with a different viewpoint and focus in mind. In my earlier post I concentrated more on the "duty" part of reading the tarot (or my support of the lack of it, rather) because of Talisman's original post:
"Umbrae suggested that if you read Tarot, and have a talent for it, you SHOULD read for others and help your fellow man. I said, "No way."
In actual fact, I have no idea who said what exactly, as I did not read the earlier thread, so I cannot support or refute Umbrae's clarification of his words:
"I did not say that your prime responsability is to help others with tarot...I stated that your prime responsability becomes...
to help others...There is a difference."
Then again, I feel it's really none of my business anyway. But I do not feel that my PRIME responsibility is to help others, with or without tarot, although I do agree it is a noble burden to place upon oneself, if that is your view - yet it is not one that you can place on others. Furthermore, not all people view tarot readings as "help" - very few people whom I know personally would. As fairyhedgehog wisely said,
"We are all in very different places from each other and I suppose on different paths. No wonder we all see the world so differently when we have not all had the same experiences. "
Hear, hear! And just to add some spice to the conversation: I very nastily went back to look for a teacher who was REALLY mean to me in grade school and managed to "accidentally" splash a brimming cup of coffee on her expensive dress. I say, what goes around - comes around. So even if Umbrae's words are not always appropriate for everyone, there might be good karma in it for your next life, hehe.
I think Zorya sums up it perfectly (& far better than I)!
Originally posted by Talisman
I am not saying any of you shouldn't read the cards for other people. But, I think Umbrae is wrong in thinking everyone has a responsibility to read the cards for others, and if you can't figure out why I think so, then you belong here in the back of the class with me. I won't because I can't. I can't diagram sentences, either.
As for determining whether my use of the cards is spiritual or secular, well how'n hell would I know? To again quote zorya, I'll lay out my cards "to listen to the universe." 'Course, maybe all I'll hear is the sounds of silence. Life in the back of the class.
Talisman I share your feelings and thoughts on this. I will more than gladly and proudly join you in the back of the class ~hands Talisman a lolly-pop as she sits~
There are many many uses for tarot cards ... perhaps my uses of the cards are more geared towards the intellectual (academic) and spiritual sides, but I also use them just for fun ... to look at them. I use them because I can and because I want to. They are part of my own private paradise ... my safe place. They enhance and open my creativity, they make me smile, they make me wonder ... they sometimes transport me to other worlds. They are personal and they are private.
I only read for myself and very very close friends that I know value the readings and will not make me feel like Ms. Stringfellow would ... I do not want anyone crashing my beautiful tarot world ... I feel no responsibility to share it. I share it only with the people I want to because I want to.
MystiqueMoonlight
05-11-2002, 16:02
I would go as far as to say that all of you are using your cards in the right purpose for yourselves.
For me my cards are a guide in my spiritual journey. Sure I use them to read for myself and others, but I also use them to study, spells, meditate etc.
My cards are more than just a set of images painted onto pieces of paper which have been influenced by it's creator in some maniacal way (I use Thoth).
They are a spiritual guide, my altar, my burning candle, my wafting incense, my conversation, my thought provoker.
I would suggest that whatever your cards are doing for you at this present moment in your life is right for you now. Why consider what others are using their's for? Why compare? You are in the moment of infinite time. Let your spirit rejoice and reborn with the knowledge you gain in this life.
Blessed Be.
sparrowspirit
05-11-2002, 17:48
Talisman,
The eloquence with which you write shows that you no longer belong in the back of the classroom, (if indeed you ever did). Thanks for sharing.
The next question..."why do you read Aeclectic"? Because of all of the great insight shared by all.
Sparrow
I generally try to avoid making "I agree" posts, but so many people have said so many things I strongly agree with, I can't resist the urge to quote them.
However, I'll satisfy myself with just one quote, from MystiqueMoonlight, who I think says it perfectly and much better than I could:
"I would suggest that whatever your cards are doing for you at this present moment in your life is right for you now. Why consider what others are using their's for? Why compare? You are in the moment of infinite time. Let your spirit rejoice and reborn with the knowledge you gain in this life."
-- Lee
Joywalker
05-11-2002, 21:43
Originally posted by MystiqueMoonlight
I would suggest that whatever your cards are doing for you at this present moment in your life is right for you now. Why consider what others are using their's for? Why compare? You are in the moment of infinite time. Let your spirit rejoice and reborn with the knowledge you gain in this life.
I couldn't agree more to this quote!! :D
I think it's because I like it.
I didn't ask myself why I was trying to learn how to walk when I was a toddler, I just went about trying to walk. Later I found many uses for it. I'm glad I learned but the truth is, it was just writtten in my genes that I ougth to learn how to walk.
I'm not sure there is much use to trying to answer that question. As with many answers we give to our_and other's_ questions, some are not anything more than a posteriori explanations. Rationalizations. If one has a prompt answer, from a knowledge that comes from within, it's fine. If not, it's better not to force it to surface. The answer might come out wrong.
Alex.
Originally posted by Umbrae
However, we are putting the cart before the horse...
"Why do you read tarot..." must be answered first!
dangerdork
06-11-2002, 08:28
The tarot to me is an abstraction of human experience, and the many decks are different portraits of one universal human personality. It’s the original comic book, an infinite illustrated personal mythology. How you interact with the tarot differs from person to person, like all relationships. And like all relationships, your relationship with the tarot can mature, change and grow as time goes by; sometimes you’ll be close and handling the cards or meditating every day, sometimes long spells will go by where you are doing other things in your life. But the tarot will always be there like an old friend.
My relationship with the tarot has always been with this final goal in mind: to create a deck, a GREAT deck, a deck with beautiful striking images, loaded with symbolism and magic and mystery – to do the best possible portrait of my old friend that it is within my ability to create. This will take years, but at least I’ve begun.
For me, the creation of art is a very… participatory experience. I can draw something OK from a photograph, or from other’s work in reference materials, and even occasionally I can make stuff up out of my imagination. But my best work has invariably been drawn from experience – a lot of my best work ever was medical illustration, when I was actually observing in the operating room or looking through a microscope, and then drawing what I had seen. I don’t necessarily have to have the subject in front of me, but I need intimate experience of the subject to do my best work. I can draw much better portraits of friends than strangers for this reason.
Approaching the tarot as a subject was at first a matter of learning the scenes and their symbolic elements as defined by the historic decks and classic writers, then studying variations as created by different artists over the years, then learning the more esoteric symbolism… it was still not enough. I used to read my own cards all the time simply to learn their meanings – and of course learned very quickly that the tarot actually WORKS.
My relationship with the tarot has certainly evolved in that spiritual dimension. I take reading the cards very seriously, and I’ve gotten to a point where I’ve done more readings for strangers than I can even remember. I love doing readings and the experience is usually profound for both myself and the querents. However, as intense and meaningful as the experience of reading may be, I will never consider it to be the defining aspect of my relationship with the tarot – it’s a means for me as an artist to become more intimately familiar with my subject.
Above the doorway to the Oracle of Delphi were the words – “Know Thyself”.
For starters, the question was, “Why do You Read Tarot”. It was not about reading for yourself or others, nor was it about an opinion of why other folks should read. Most responses had nothing to do with the question; they were simply posts.
Some of you did really well.
Before we can look at “Why do You Read Tarot” in detail – I would like to ramble a bit.
Mojo once wrote, “I’m practicing an ancient and somewhat dubious art. To try to apply modern ethical standards to it is just plain dumb. Our Tarot forebearers were gypsies, fortune tellers, sideshow barkers, hucksters, and countless others on the fringe of society. It is an illegitimate art, but that is part of it's appeal to people even today.
If Tarot was in the mainstream, there would be no appeal in it for me. I revel in its shady history. I've never wanted to be just like everyone else and Tarot gives me the opportunity to be a little bit mad, bad and dangerous to know!”
That is a beautiful explanation of Secular reading. I applaud Mojo.
“There is a saying: When a student is ready, a teacher will be found. Tarot is a teacher of not only life, but of the underpinnings of life, of the unseen influences as well as the apparent.
It matters not from what path of life nor what the particular ideology is when one seeks to work with Tarot. The nature of its wisdom encompasses the divine & the mundane, the esoteric & the ordinary. Its multi-layers of meanings further attest to its versatility & timeliness; they cross boundaries.
Whether the approach is scholarly & academic or from an intuitive standpoint, both are valid, particular to the individual experience. Either approach may be utilized singly or in combination to enhance the whole of the experience.
Each individual can only step forward from wherever he is presently at. The individual journey is as unique as the individual is.
Yes, Tarot can be seen as a way of life; as a guide, a teacher or even as entertainment. For some, it may reiterate "no pain, no gain". However, it may speak to one, ultimately all roads eventually lead to "home" - to Truth. In Tarot as in Life, it is not the destination as much as it is the participation in the journey.” MeeWah
Somewhere in these threads, someone was bemoaning the fact that folks would come and ask them to, “Read my fortune”. This was, and remains, HUGE.
Why are they asking you to read their future? Why do they come to us?
We care about history, artwork, and tradition. The secular aspects…
They care about something else that they cannot get ANYWHERE else in/for their lives…They come to us!
They have the church, science, family, and the modern world of entertainment - and still they come to us.
Best put some thought into the ‘Whys’.
It is a bigger topic than spreads. If you do not know, why…than what do we really know?
So why do you read.
If you have read long enough (if you haven’t – hunt down the toothpick post), sooner or later, someone will come to you; they may step up out of the blue or they may want an appointment – and when you lay eyes upon them – their future is laid bare before you – no need for cards, no crystal ball today…have a seat and get ready, ‘cause baby I’m going to understand you to the core of your soul…
When this occurs it will scare the crap out of you. There may be times your left-brain tell you, “Oh this person is just blah blah blah…” Eventually…if you read long enough…it will happen…and it scare you. It should.
Here standing before us is the essence of reading…sometimes we shy away…too much responsibility…what if I’m wrong…what will they think about poor me…
The Tibetan Buddhist teacher Chugyam Trungpa once said, “Magic is the total appreciation of chance.” It is amazing – we spend our whole lives waiting for a sign – one is sent – and we send it away unrecognized. “But what will other people think?”
Remember for a second – chances are you live in a house, with a refrigerator and a stereo, radio, TV…you may live in a city, with its sounds of traffic, your cell phone. On a daily basis, we filter out these sounds. Truly, we only hear a fraction of what surrounds us.
You most likely have a job or are struggling to find one.
We are bombarded with distractions. Advertisers are constantly telling us to spend money to buy a lifestyle…
Odds are, you are so busy filtering, censoring, and editing…just how aware are we as a culture?
I hate Jackson Pollack; he stated his art expressed his deep, primitive, and feeling self. Well bully for him. His art was an extension of his ego. Like a million other Madonna and child’s already painted.
John Cage spent four years flipping a coin to write a piece, precisely to remove ego from the art. (side note: Most folks miss the point of 4’33”).
Someone once wrote, “Tarot cards are a tool for gaining insight into the mind, in cases where normal introspection is blocked by repression and self-censorship mechanisms. Sometimes, simply talking to another person is sufficient to bypass these mechanisms--the other person can see and reveal to us what we hide from ourselves. In other cases, the other person's repression and self-censorship mechanisms are as much a problem as our own--it is for these cases that Tarot cards are particularly useful. The advantage of using Tarot cards versus other props--such as tea leaves, or Rorschach ink blots, or cards other than Tarot cards, or the querent's palm, to cite just a few examples--is that Tarot cards provide a better map of the human condition than these other props.”
So why do you read. If you read long enough – things will begin to occur. So why do you read?
To grow. That is the simple boiled down essence of the only correct answer. It matters not if you read only for yourself or only for others or only for your dog, you read tarot to grow. Period. Finis.
So how do we encourage growth…what is the fertilizer of human growth.
The reason many of you should not read, is the inability to shut down ego when a sitter begins shuffling the cards – all those, “What deck – What spread – What do I wear – What is the meaning of…”
It is your ego talking…
It is difficult to learn that, neither the cards, nor you are an issue – the sitter, or client is the issue– it is all about them.
Don’t take a chance! You might make a mistake! OH MY GAWD!
And that, is the reason why most of you should learn to read for others. To learn to shut down the ego – and operate without self – and put ‘self’ at risk.
Folks are always complaining it is a terrible world, murder, mayham, kidnappings, more murder…”I’m scared…”
Look at the lives of your neighbors. They go to work, come home, go to bed, get up and go to work…maybe have drink now and then…perhaps go golfing.
They do nothing to help improve the world.
Most protesters love to carry signs. But they will not get their hands dirty. They will not do anything.
I have no pity for those folks. They complain, and do nothing.
Now examine your own life…
What do you do to grow as a person? You will only grow so much – if you stay in a small pot. You will become root-bound.
Sooner or later, you are going to have to begin to help others.
With or without your Tay-roe cards…
You see…the world is changing – are you?
Ah, Umbrae--once again, you challenge the intellect & the hearing very eloquently. Thank you.
I always enjoy reading your post Umbrae, they are very enlightening.
Demonesse
06-11-2002, 21:58
I agree AND disagree with much of Umbrae's post - but as MeeWah said, very challenging and eloquent.
fairyhedgehog
07-11-2002, 03:34
Originally posted by Umbrae
To grow. That is the simple boiled down essence of the only correct answer. It matters not if you read only for yourself or only for others or only for your dog, you read tarot to grow. Period. Finis.
This is the post I nearly didn't make. I don't want to hurt your feelings Umbrae, but I don't want to patronise you either by assuming that you can't cope with a dissenting voice. So, for what it is worth, here is my two cents worth.
I'm sorry Umbrae, but I find it difficult to hear what you are saying when you write so categorically. If you were to write, 'I believe that the only reason you read tarot is to grow' I would find it easier to listen.
In any case I don't believe in the 'only correct answer' to anything. It brings out the scientist in me (or the sceptic if you prefer.) I want to ask 'who says?' and 'how do you know?' and 'what about ...?'
You are clearly passionate about your views and many people are finding them helpful. I can't sort out whether I agree or disagree with what you write because of the static caused by my dislike of authoritarian statements.
I don't believe that there is a right or a wrong way to read, or that it is important to get our egos out of the way when we read. But then I only read for myself. Not really for growth, in my view, but for fun. Like reading books.
Maybe I should read your post simply as a statement of what it is like for you, then I would feel less wound up by it. You clearly read intuitively and well for other people. You have had moments of intuition that are so strong that they 'scare the crap out of you'. Your querents come to you for something they can't get elsewhere and are helped by you. I'm glad that it works so well both for you and for your querents.
But it isn't like that for me, and I don't expect it to be. I'm on a different path and whether I'm headed in the same direction or not, who knows?
Demonesse
07-11-2002, 04:33
*applauds fairyhedgehog* Yesss! Encore, encore!
it's Umbrae you are talking about. Hadn't he spoken in the tone he had, it wouldn't be Umbrae. Sometimes_and I know it can be difficult_ we *just* have to accept people the way they are, *exactly* the way they are.
Umbrae, you bring to my mind the image of "The Emperor". I'm sure, if you have kids, you don't have to say twice to straighten them out!
I only do not agree with the "know thyself". I prefer "become thyself, knowingly". Forgott now, who am I quoting; but it will come, eventually.
Alex.
Originally posted by fairyhedgehog
This is the post I nearly didn't make. I don't want to hurt your feelings Umbrae, but I don't want to patronise you either by assuming that you can't cope with a dissenting voice.
divinerguy
07-11-2002, 09:07
Similar to Stargazerlily, I'm looking for something in life. Tarot fulfills spiritual needs that are otherwise a little empty.
I agree with Diana that my friend Umbrae's posts are remarkable in their clarity and depth, and I also agree that passion should not be frowned upon nor proscribed.
On the other hand, I share fairyhedgehog's dislike of authoritarian statements. I'm really conflicted about this because I like Umbrae and I like a lot of the things he writes, but at the same time, alarm bells go off in my head when I read things like "only correct answer," "most of you should learn to read for others," "if you argue, you have missed the entire point of the thread," the assigning of grades to certain posts (even in jest), the characterization of certain posts as "wrong answers," and any statement which ends with the words, "period, finis."
It also seems to me that Umbrae is making several arguable assumptions. For example, he states that if one who does not read for others is approached with a request for a reading, it will "scare the crap out of" the reader. He also seems to be assuming that the only reason a reader might have for not wanting to read for others is because the reader has not learned to shut down the ego. I think both these assumptions are faulty. If someone approaches me for a reading, I may very well turn them down, not because the request has scared the crap out of me, but for any one of several reasons, having nothing to do with shutting down the ego.
Umbrae also says, "The reason many of you should not read, is the inability to shut down ego when a sitter begins shuffling the cards – all those, 'What deck – What spread – What do I wear – What is the meaning of…'"
Personally, I derive a great deal of pleasure from pondering such questions as what deck, what spread, what interpretation (not what to wear, though; I have no fashion sense whatever :) ). And I like discussing them with others, and for me that is the major point of the Aeclectic Forums. I notice Umbrae participates in such discussions as well (a good thing, because I enjoy reading his opinions about such things immensely). Am I doing these things at the expense of my spontaneity and intuition? Perhaps. But perhaps not. Who can say? If I reach a point when I feel it's getting in the way, then maybe I'll quit the forums, hang out a shingle, and read, read, read. But if that happens, it will only be because I feel such a change happening in myself, not because some other person is insisting that I must do it.
Finally, when I read things like "Sooner or later, you are going to have to begin to help others," this really rubs me the wrong way. I'm sure Umbrae doesn't mean to suggest this, but sometimes his posts are phrased in such a way that they seem to suggest that we are not helping others. This reminds me of my reaction to Poppy Palin's book to her Wild Spirit Tarot, in which she characterized her entire readership as a bunch of selfish ninnies who need her preaching, lecturing and haranguing to save them from egotistical foolishness, thus casting herself in the role of savior. In her book, I found the holier-than-thou tone annoying. Again, I'm sure this is not what Umbrae intends to communicate, but I can't help feeling that way when I read his seeming suggestion that I (and the rest of his readers) need to be reminded to help others.
Actually, when I read such things now, it doesn't bother me as much as it used to, because I've grown to understand that this is simply how some people express themselves. But what really concerns me (and the reason I'm posting this) is the idea that some Tarot newcomers (or Aeclectic newcomers) will read these posts and start to feel badly because they're not doing it Umbrae's way. So just to set my conscience at ease, I'm going to say:
There are no wrong answers in something as individual as Tarot. It's fun to talk about various aspects of Tarot but in the end, what you do with it is an intensely personal decision. No one is required to justify or explain why they do what they do, and there is no "right way" to do it. If you encounter people or authors who claim to know the "right way," but it's not right for you, then thank them politely for their views and continue right on doing what you want to do.
-- Lee :)
dangerdork
07-11-2002, 11:04
I wholeheartedly agree with Lee's eloquent post, and with the consensus reaction to that last Umbrae post. I couldn't express my own reactions to Umbrae's eloquent and passionate posts any better myself.
Umbrae started this thread, and it's by far the most interesting I've seen since joining the forum -- but I inferred its original intent to be a means for all of us to discover more about each other, to compare and contrast our own relationships to the tarot with those of others.
I agree that this is a very interesting and tought provoking thread. I have really enjoyed reading everyone's post accepting what works for me, and trying to see other perspectives where I disagree.
I do not agree with all that Umbrae posted, but I honestly believe that his intent has been to challenge us to look deeper into ourselves, not necessarily to tell us what or how to do things. By using the strong language, he got our attention and elicited emotion ... struck cords. When these cords were struck we had various options on how to react, i.e. get defensive; look deeper into ourselves; ignore it.
What I find interesting is that the struck cords are like the Tarot cards that sometimes we just don't like ... upon furhter exploring those cards over time, meditating with them, etc. we find the aspects of the card that trouble/bother us, and perhaps begin to also learn to like the card better. I believe that Umbrae has challenged us to the same, but instead of with cards with our deeper selves. He is trying to help us explore why we read tarot for us ... not for him ... not for a right way. That is what I get by reading between the lines of his eloquent post.
Our backgrounds, experience, education, family, culture, etc., etc., all make us very different and will also affect how we see and use Tarot. These things also make us perceive things differently thus looking at the same thing we can all have a completly different set of experiences. Based on my background, experience, etc., etc. I choose to "use" tarot more than "read" tarot, and I have grown because of it. To me Tarot is a pathway to connecting with my individual spirituality and its use does result in personal growth (creative, intellectual, spiritual, and playfullness). Through that personal growth I am able to perceive the world in a different manner that enables me to be more flexible and more objective. The only way you can better help others is by helping yourself first ... then you can give more freely.
I am reminded of the person who searched far and wide in search of happiness, saddened by the unsuccesful numerous attempts - until one day, such search was thrown to the winds, and by engaging in the activity of the present, gained happiness - happiness is gained not by seeking it directly, in the same way that if you want a dry clean body, water needs to be used to wash it in the first instance.
Umbrae wrote 'So why do you read? To grow. That is the simple boiled down essence of the only correct answer'.
Much of these eight pages of posts contain so many wonderful responses to so many aspects of connotations, influences and directions contained in the original question. In terms of Umbrae's succint answer, however, I sense the cart may may have been placed before the horse.
There is no doubt, to me at any rate, that by reading Tarot, growth occurs. One of our general motives for reading Tarot may also be because if may assist in growth. But I doubt that at any instance of a reading, the reason or purpose for doing the reading is to grow. Rather, like happiness, growth is its effects. Like happiness too, the more one allows the engagement into the reading at hand, the greater may be the possible growth - irrespective as to whether the reading is one of those wonderful and awe inspiring revelatory sessions by which we may be blessed, or a rather difficult and seemingly indecipherable sequence of apparently unconnected cards.
As to the difference between the sacred and the profane, or the spiritual and the secular, I personally consider that even comments made in profane or secular jest have spiritual repercursions - this doesn't mean we shouldn't jest, quite the contrary, rather, that the divide may not be a divide at all, but the secular be just a veil for what is at essence already essentially spiritual.
As I have already answered the original question in an earlier post (on page two), I'll only add here that often, in my case at least, we simply read because we are called to read Tarot.
Talisman
08-11-2002, 10:19
'Lo all,
With some soups the longer they simmer in the pot the richer the broth . . . I am loving reading this thread.
Just the last few posts -- Umbrae (who started the whole thing and with whom I find so much to agree/Disagree), Lee, Jewel, jmd (!), and others, I could just quote and say things like "Yes!"
But, what's the point? Other than to junk up the wonderful flow of a fascinating thread. There are things I want to say, but others have said it better, or, worse, I'm afraid I would sound frivolous in context. But indulge me, and allow me just one snip of a quote:
" . . . the day we realise that all things are connected on this earth and in the universe – the trees, the animals, our thoughts, our vibrations, the planets, the seasons, and all human beings – then we will come to the realisation that we ARE responsible, through our thoughts and actions, for every living and so-called non-living thing in the universe. Because each and every one of our actions affects this universe." -- Diana
I've said before in another thread: When you walk from one side of the room to the other, you change the center of balance for the entire universe.
And, coins have two sides. How could you ever measure "serious" if you didn't have "frivolous" to compare it to? Just as long as the universe doesn't come to me, expecting me to read Tarot cards for it . . .
Talisman
Temperance413
13-11-2002, 21:44
Recently I got a very rude awakening from my so called "friends". I know many of you have encountered the same thing. You are going to BURN in hell for even touching those cards!! Get them out of your house, go to confession right away and take communion before the effects of THOSE cards ruin your chance at eternity with God!
So, like any good "Friend" I got rid of the one deck my husband didn't throw away(long story), and resold all my tarot books, which numbered about 25. And went to confession and fell into a well that lasted about six months.
The reason why I read tarot is because it is an extension of me. A facet of my personality that makes me unique. Some people understand it, some don't, but I really do, to some degree, and want to learn as much as I can, and read for others as much as I can. To help them, sure, to maybe show them a different way out of a bad situation, absolutely, but honestly, if tarot is soooo bad, why do so many really outstanding, good, intelligent, loving people (all of you fellow tarotholics) do it?
It is not an evil thing, and I refuse to let narrow, ridged people control my life.
I'm expressing my creativity, my ability to heal, love and enjoy life.
thanks for listening!!!
413
Temperance413: Welcome back!!
(((((temperance413))))) it takes real courage to stand up to all you've been through and be true to yourself! congratulations and welcome back!
Hi Temperance413 you did what feel right for you, I encourage your return to the world of tarot, welcome back from journey.
Jenny-Li
14-11-2002, 15:46
I make my late entrance, as usual these days it would seem... But such a wonderful thread must not go by without my humble contribution...! :)
First things first: (((((((((((temperance413)))))))))) Huge hug for you, for the beautiful courage you have shown. Truely Temperance, for you have surely transformed into a higher being in this process, I am sure. Be proud, you have every reason.
So back to the thread topic: This is something I've spent SO many hours thinking about. What drives us all to the tarot? What makes us decide we need to get a deck and try it out, what is it that makes us all get stuck in tarotholism? For me it has always been the fact that the Tarot is so tightly connected to ME. It has transformed me to a person I could never have even dreamed to become, not before I met the Tarot. For me the Tarot IS the Philosopher's Stone, and like all medieval alchemists I've become more or less obsessed with finding the Truth, the true potential of what I have been given as spiritual gifts. How far can I go? How far can I reach?
Does this mean I must read for others? No. But it will probably mean that I will want to, at some point. When the time is right, when I am right. Until then, Tarot is for learning, growing. Because when I grow, that TOO, just like when I walk from one end of the room to the other, alters the balance of the universe. My energy goes out there - into the Universe, whether I send it through a reading for someone else or spread it by just living, breathing, being.
And that is another reason why I can't stay away from the tarot! It connects me even more, or at least it feels that way. It's like getting high on spiritual connectedness...! ;)
Light and love,
Jenny :)
I just noticed this thread today, and wish I'd seen it before. Its certainly fascinating and more provoking- and provacation is an excellent way to grow. :)
Why?
I don't think the answer can possibly be boiled down to a single phrase, not Umbrae's, not anyone's, without being stripped of Meaning and Context.
Why is never that easy and simple. That doesn't mean it should be ignored, neglected, over-looked, rationalized away, ridiculed, or scorned. Asking ourselves why and fearlessly exploring the answer is an important thing.
I read tarot because its part of an entire tool box kind of life-embracing practices that make me feel happy and well. I want *I* to be happy and well, and I want *Thou* to be happy and well. My priority is however, *I*, because as long as my *I-ness* is a wounded, weak, whiny mess.... anything I do to help *Thou* will be half-assed at best. The best thing I can do for my fellow human beings is heal myself and live in the most ethical and noble ways possible... which include philanthropy and kindness as principles and processes, but never at the cost of my own health and happiness... the foundation has to be strong for the house to stand.
Grade in regards to answering the question to the professor's stated standard *g*: C+
Grade in regards to self-understanding and growth: A
Laurel
Demonesse
15-11-2002, 04:17
Excellent, and very eloquent answer, Laurel! I don't feel it is the "best" thing to do for my fellow human beings, but it is certainly the most realistically achievable one :)
Shadow Wolf
29-11-2002, 23:05
Reading Tarot has helped me to view my life within the realm of
possibilities. It also helps me to realize that what happens in
my life, the direction my life takes is up to me. "My life, on MY
terms"
So, if reading tarot is doing this much for me, if it's going to help me live more deliberately, then I say I should read more often.
It also helps me see how we are all interconnected, and that how I live my life will affect many other people. It helps me stay on top of things, and makes me aware of feelings and thoughts that
I might not want to know about. Being aware is the first step to
changing !!!!!!
Living my own life like this has to have a positive effect on the
universe.
I do read for other people only if the ask me to, or if I know they are into tarot, I'll make the offer.
Mostly because I like all the pretty pictures, and they take me to new worlds.
Shadow Wolf
22-12-2002, 13:26
I read tarot because the cards tell me what need to know but what I may not always want to hear. Just seeing the cards spread out in front of me and reading their meanings wakes up my subconscious mind. If I have difficulty facing what the cards says, my subconscious mind works on it for me until I'm ready for it on a conscious level.
Is this making sense ????
Well... don't know how I missed this thread! 9 pages of discussion... and all of it fascinating. So much has been said and so many feathers have been ruffled! Wish I had seen this one right away... wouldn't have had to read it all in one sitting... ;)
Why do I read Tarot? Initially... curiosity... I love to learn new things. I have continued with the Tarot for answers. Answers to the questions about me and who I am and why. Sometimes I also want answers to everyday, mundane questions, such as how is my day going to be, or what is going on next month? Sometimes I get the answers to these questions and many times I get answers I wasn't looking for. But I always get answers... then again, sometimes I get new questions too. So yes... all of this helps me to grow.
I do like to help others and so, yes I do readings to try and help other people get the answerst to their questions as well. I also help them in my job... in fact that is my job - but that's a topic for another thread. ;)
What I find interesting is that in all of this discussion about "why we read Tarot?" - nobody has done a reading on this. So - I'll be the first - I pulled out my trusty Röhrig Tarot...
past-present-future:
1) 6 Cups - reversed: Things (especially old desires) from my past were blocking my growth. Possibly relating to childhood problems? Here were questions, whose answers I was seeking when I started my "Fool's Journey" in Tarot.
2) 7 Wands: A boldness? Taking a step towards getting the answers I need even though examining them may need courage.
3) 6 Swords: This is a very interesting card in the Röhrig deck, showing a maze against a field of stars. I still have a long, winding and somtimes difficult road ahead in my journey.
Finally... I'll add my hugs to Temperence413 as well. Welcome back. Your courage is amazing. (((((((((((((Temperence413))))))))))))
I think I've spoken about the way I see the tarot in other threads as being a 'life tool' in my armoury, and I do, and also I use this life tool for others that haven't one of their own. But to boil it all down as to why I read... this may annoy the hell out of the purists here.... the reason I read the tarot is simply because ' I can '.
allibee
Originally posted by allibee
But to boil it all down as to why I read... this may annoy the hell out of the purists here.... the reason I read the tarot is simply because ' I can '.
LOL allibee! This immediately made me think of the quote attributed to Sir Edmund Hillary. When asked why he had climbed to the top of Mount Everest he said "because it was there." Sounds like a good reason for why we read Tarot. :D
firemaiden
24-03-2004, 18:35
So Umbrae, it's taken me this long to come up with a satisfying answer to the question: "Why do you read?"
Today it came to me in the shower. The answer is a Question.
"Why do you read?" --
"Whom does the Grail serve?"
Khatruman
24-03-2004, 18:59
Originally posted by Umbrae
I see so many talented folks here – that do not take their talents outside the house. They box it up and refuse to share – they talk about family, friends, and being ostracized from their immediate community…
For kraps sake, there are a couple billion people on this planet all feeling a little lost…that lost woman in the coffee shop! She was lost…you do not have to find her, just provide a signpost.
The world is a huge place. Filled with people who need each one of us – as we are – and we have much to share – and do not share enough.
Just a glimmer of hope – a small beacon in the night for lost souls in the tumultuous sea of today’s chaotic world.
Do good and do not worry to whom.
The world will seem brighter when you do things for others, instead of just ourselves...
And when I mandate that we should help others - it be not always with a deck in hand... I just wanted to quote out these words from Umbrae. Here is a reason that I admire the man greatly. I would call these Umbrae's Commandments, but I don't want to swell his fish head any more....
DAVE???!!! :D
Perhaps it comes from being on this world long enough and constantly turning the question in my mind: "Why is it that I am here? What is important in this world?" Whatever the case, it becomes so much clearer every day what is important. It is not being successful, making money, winning the game. It is being a contributor to Life. Anyone who thinks they are in this world to do just for themselves is absolutely blinded to the obvious around them at any moment.
Look at the light, heat, air conditioning, the electricity that powers the computer you are looking at right now. How is it there? Other people are keeping it going....
Where have the clothes come that keep you warm? Others made them, shipped them, sold them.
How is it that the refuse you create magically goes away? Others take it for you.
And when you work your job, what is it that you are doing? Something that is benefitting others.
So, why shouldn't it feel good to do for others? That is what being a living animal is about. Procreation is about creating life, pushing it forward. All of life is about nuturing other life.
The gift of knowledge and wisdom is not to hide it away in our brains to whither and die with us. It is to share with others, to bring it forward so that life progresses, moves on, constantly conquers death and renews itself.
Even in tarot, Death is not the final Trump. It is The World, and the Fool takes us right back to the creator, The Magician.
Phoenyx*
24-03-2004, 19:05
Originally posted by Umbrae
Read this and follow the directions. Leave your computer – go get your favorite reading deck and a pad and paper
Make a cup of tea (or coffee) and get comfortable. Relax.
Shuffle the deck a couple of times – Now…SMELL THE DECK. Stick your nose right in there and INHALE!
What is the thought, not the smell, when you smell the deck, what is the thought? Take notes! What does the aroma say to you.
Then come back and write about it. What was triggered in your brain. Why do you read tarot?
Oooh, a reason to make a cup of tea! *goes to make a cup of vanilla chamomile tea*
*comes back and settles in* I have to say this...I didn't get my favorite reading deck, instead, I got a deck that I haven't even done one reading with, not for myself, not for anyone else. My Inner Child Deck. It's all wrapped up in a neat pink cloth, that fits well with its "personality". I went ahead and sniffed it, even though I don't seem to have a sense of smell. I inhaled.
And this is what my brain triggered with....I remembered my recent readings, and I remembered all the readings that others have done.
My answer I can honestly give as to why I read Tarot is to help others. They come to me with a question or situation or problem, and I read what is given to me, to help them see it in a different light, consider things they had never considered before.
Khatruman
24-03-2004, 19:06
Originally posted by firemaiden
So Umbrae, it's taken me this long to come up with a satisfying answer to the question: "Why do you read?"
Today it came to me in the shower. The answer is a Question.
"Why do you read?" --
"Whom does the Grail serve?" "What is your quest?"
"What is the air speed velocity of a swallow?"
Phoenyx*
24-03-2004, 19:19
Originally posted by firemaiden
So Umbrae, it's taken me this long to come up with a satisfying answer to the question: "Why do you read?"
Today it came to me in the shower. The answer is a Question.
"Why do you read?" --
"Whom does the Grail serve?"
Aren't you amazed by the things you can come up with in the shower? I come up with some of my best thoughts in the shower.
Imagemaker
24-03-2004, 20:11
I read because I'm curious--about myself, about the cards, their art, their history, their symbols, and what can be done with them as a tool.
A local famous writer once said that he wanted to study writing because he knew he could never learn it all. I feel that way about reading Tarot. An fascinating activity for an inquiring mind . . .
Why do I read Tarot?
Keeping it simple? I recently discovered it...I have always been someone people come to to talk about "things" in their lives.
I read now, because it seems I can.
I read for myself, because when I do, my mind goes lateral and doors open to new ways of looking at a situation and I, therefore, get guidance.
I read for others who ask me to, because I hope I can offer them another way to look at something concerning them in their lives.
I do most of what I do in life, because I believe I am here to learn and teach and that I am both: a teacher and a learner.
I did my first CC reading for my closest friend...she had been very down about where she was emotionally at the time...re her life and career... The next day, she called from Wisconsin and said that the reading opened up whole avenues of how to look at what she was experiencing and that she felt spiritually uplifted and was enacting changes based directly on the reading. She thanked me and sent love and said she is coming this summer to spend a week with me and could I please show her the cards in the layout. That's why I read for others.....
terri
another good thread, Umbrae...I welcome your challenges...I'm still loving the falcon and the woman in the 9 of Pentacles RW
((((Umbrae))))
TemperanceAngel
24-03-2004, 23:53
Tarot chose me, I didn't choose it :D
I love helping people. I love meeting people. XTAX
ScarabFlight
25-03-2004, 01:12
Oooooooo! What a delicious thread! :) Thanks to all the people who have shared so far.
I had to laugh about the smelling of the deck because that's one of the first things I do when I get a new deck (I have 3 so it's not like I'm really experienced at deck sniffing or anything) or a new book. (Ok, I'm pretty experienced at this one)
I bought my first deck because for some strange reason I felt like I needed to take it home. It was several months and then I felt like I needed to really get into the cards. I read because I like the feeling of doing it. I enjoy the feeling of shuffling the cards, I enjoy the smell of the cards, I enjoy the wonder and excitement of seeing what way I can use the deck to connect with, I'm not sure what exactly. The universe, the the oneness, the force? I think maybe the force is probably the closest. I enjoy the communication and the using of my brain. lol But then again I enjoy learning things like ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics. :)
I think that one reason the tarot cards work so well is that they aren't bound by these pesky little things called words. Which is probably why I'm having such a hard time putting this into words. Maybe if I could draw/ collage a picture instead..........
P.S. The back of the class is reserved for only the coolest of the cool. I brought gum, the teacher can't see us this far back anyway. :D
Tarot Sparrow
25-03-2004, 01:32
Why do I read tarot?
Because it makes me feel smart! :D
Seriously though, I think it's ultimately because I like helping others. And if I can help myself in the process, hey, all the better.
miss_apples
25-03-2004, 02:03
I read because I can.
I dont like to overcomplicate things...Ive spent way too much of my life doing that. I also dont need anyone telling me why I should read tarot and what, where, and who I should read for.
And Umbrae...dont waste your time grading my response. I'll do it for you.
F- :)
firemaiden
25-03-2004, 02:57
You know, I bumped up this old thread, so that I could share my new answer with you all.
It was sort of a riddle...
This remains one of, if not THE most important questions for me.
Reading for Self... those answers are easy.
But reading for others?? To help them? Why do we want to help them? Can we guarantee that it will help them? What’s the cost to us? And worst of all........
The potential to unwittingly cause harm is scary, debilitating. I’ve seen it here... honest, genuine attempts to help that unwittingly may cause harm.
Is the act of reaching out.. reading for others, inherently good?
Life's a risk... there are no guarantees.... does that absolve me of all responsibility?
Is it enough simply to say, I do my best to cause no harm? Is it the intent that matters, irrespective of the effect?
I started reading at first just to see if I could do it. Then,
when I became a member of the A.T.A, and took their
voluntary course, I was graded by my mentor on make-
believe "what-if" type reading situations. After I got a good
grade,I then read for friends for free, only when asked. At
the moment, I'm using the cards mainly for self-improvement
and/or getting to know the inner me. (A type of spiritual
journey I guess.) I still do the daily readings, & a full - spread
if something's up, plus I let each new deck have a "say" for
itself after clearing it. Still , some are used 4 the occasional
practice of magick & I'll ALWAYS be there 4 anyone who needs a reading. Thanx- 4 - asking...
Originally posted by firemaiden
So Umbrae, it's taken me this long to come up with a satisfying answer to the question: "Why do you read?"
Today it came to me in the shower. The answer is a Question.
"Why do you read?" --
"Whom does the Grail serve?"
The empty cup/chalice cannot pour...It will serve us? If we give of our spirit to others, we shall receive enlightenment and love in return?
terri....too simple an answer.....?
firemaiden
25-03-2004, 18:42
Originally posted by tmgrl2
The empty cup/chalice cannot pour...It will serve us? If we give of our spirit to others, we shall receive enlightenment and love in return?
terri....too simple an answer.....?
(((((terri)))) yes - -that's what I was thinking - answer is "the grail serves those who serve the grail" -- exactly what you said. "If we give of our spirit to others, we shall receive enlightenment and love in return"
I wasn't in the shower when it came to me...I was on a massage table today...
((((firemaiden))))
very relaxed tmgrl2
Originally posted by firemaiden
Today it came to me in the shower. The answer is a Question
Sweet firemaiden:
You are right. But then again, you are wrong. Actually, the Question is the Answer.
firemaiden
26-03-2004, 03:39
That's what I meant :)
To be or not to be. That is the question.
So then we have the answer too.
To read or not to read.....
My initial interest in Tarot was characterized by insatiable curiosity. I HAD to learn more about this. I was a little afraid, a little embarrassed to even admit my interest (still am in many circles), but I HAD to do it.
Now I read for myself to gain an added perspective on my life.
When I read for others, I want to help them find their own answers, show them a new way of looking at the questions in their lives. It's just a fresh focus on their map that I'm providing. They still have to find their own way. It feels really wonderful when I know that I've helped someone see something that leads them toward more clarity or a deeper understanding.
Besides, as Firemaiden so appropriately reminds us, it's FUN FUN FUN!
Nevada
diane drizzy
27-03-2004, 10:43
Why?
it helps me grow
it gives me options
it relaxes me
shuffling the cards is almost Zenlike to me
when stressed out I like to find my favorite cards and hide in them
the art can be breathtaking
I have a fantasy of doing readings professionally one day
I got to meet all of you
they make me smile
I feel like I've just gone to confession!
MystiqueMoonlight
30-03-2004, 05:03
For me Tarot is not so much a deck of cards but a spiritual state. I believe Tarot to be a Southern European equivalent to Runes or even Tao.
The cards are an invention of the 15th century to manifest this Spiritual state into a practical, "material" object. Hence the use of the cards offers a pragmatic approach to understanding this Spiritual path.
Well that's just what I believe anyhow :)
I read to put light into the darkness of reality that I cannot explain properly.
I read to get my own answers & to help anyone else that I can.
eastarot
30-03-2004, 08:56
I fell in love with the Tarot when I was 9 but it was only 7 years ago that I bought my first deck. Primarily I turn to the Tarot for insights into the millions of questions that buzz around in my head. I do read for others with the hope that the clarity the cards they provide can help them understand that they are the Masters of their own destiny.
Its been tough. In India many people tend to be fatalistic "God is punishing me etc etc" "I was cursed" "I'm doomed to be treated badly by this man" are just a few examples of the kind of atitudes I have to deal with when I read for people. Most of the time it turns into a counselling session and sometimes I channel Reiki as well.
The most beautiful part of the cards is how they can empower us with knowledge about the present moment. But still, the vast majority want to know "when" aaaah I can ramble about how tarot is not a tool for prediction but I'd go off the topic:)
Thanks for reading this.
Imagemaker
30-03-2004, 10:32
But still, the vast majority want to know "when" aaaah
This human need for pinpointing time, defining time, locating events in time is such a huge burden on how we see Life. I struggle with major impatience even when I look totally calm and meditative. It's always in there, pushing me!
MystiqueMoonlight
30-03-2004, 18:20
Originally posted by eastarot
The most beautiful part of the cards is how they can empower us with knowledge about the present moment. But still, the vast majority want to know "when" aaaah I can ramble about how tarot is not a tool for prediction but I'd go off the topic:)
Thanks for reading this.
I agree with you whole heartedly :)
So many people look to Tarot as a means to an ends (I blame the movies for that). I explain that we all have choices in life it's not about predestination. The Tarot simply echos the current state of circumstances in a way which may offer further incite or clarity.
I mean if I was to tell you that tomorrow when you cross the street to go to work at 8.31am a bus will hit you I am sure you will wait for the bus to drive by before you attempt crossing that street. Now some people would then say the reading was wrong, but I say we all have choice. Therefore an attempt to seek the future is a moot point.
hey mystiq !!!
i missed you, glad to see you again :-)
MystiqueMoonlight
31-03-2004, 01:15
Aaawww shucks
Thanks I missed you all too :)
((((((MM)))))) Welcome baack!!
Missed ye much, so glad to see ye again :)
I had not set out to read with Tarot. My readings were with a deck of regular playing cards, a non-Tarot deck or done spontaneously. As those methods worked very well I was not looking for a change. It was not until the former disappeared & I was visited by the discomfort of not being able to read with another deck of playing cards that I turned to the one Tarot deck I had, a standard RWS (which I saw & still see foremost as a means of spiritual study for the concepts & knowledge it embodies).
I read Tarot to augment the awareness in the present. Within the perception of the present is contained an understanding of the past & an insight towards the possible future.
That Tarot offers predictive qualities is an unexpected boon as well as for its undeniable & intriguing voice of guidance.
All Is One
31-03-2004, 04:25
Thanks, Meewah! You pretty much summed it right up.
(QUOTE)
"I read Tarot to augment the awareness in the present. Within the perception of the present is contained an understanding of the past & an insight towards the possible future. " ~ Meewah
(UNQUOTE)
I have also found great depths with a reg playing deck - especially when reading for new people/strangers/ those who know nothing of Tarot. It not only challenged me and freed me, it proved my visions to myself.
Not just once, but over and over again, as is so often necessary! And after that, the Tarot itself was richer and deeper. It proved Tarot and proved myself as a reader. Nothing quite like using a regular deck to reinforce absolutely everything one believes in or hopes for.
I'm afraid I haven't read the responses here as its a rather long thread, but personally I read the tarot to find out WHY ... not when
Once we understand the former, we can guide ourselves to the latter
WalesWoman
31-03-2004, 10:05
I started reading Tarot because I couldn't see what I needed to see and felt that Tarot would help me find answers I wasn't aware of, it's done all that and more, even though it usually brings up more questions and makes me dig very deeply to make sense of it all.
Originally posted by MeeWah
[I read Tarot to augment the awareness in the present. Within the perception of the present is contained an understanding of the past & an insight towards the possible future.
That Tarot offers predictive qualities is an unexpected boon as well as for its undeniable & intriguing voice of guidance. [/B]
OOOHHHH....I love this!! re past and future...it's all here now anyhow...we just have to tap into it...great post, MeeWah!
terri
I started reading tarot for self-awareness, self-reflection and as a healing medium...I must say though, that although it helped me immensely, I felt very awkward and had a fear/stigma to read for myself. I just couldn't get over that feeling of dread to read for myself....I prefer to read for others, and still cannot comfortably read for myself...
sagitarian
01-04-2004, 06:59
When i originally started (over ten years ago) to read tarot, it was because my friend could read tarot, and it peeked my curiousity, as i've always been very involved with spirituality. I learned how to read tarot with my intuition quickly as my teacher took my lwb and threw it out the window of a moving car down a busy street. I had no choice but to read with nothing but my intuition. In some ways, it was the best thing that ever happend to me, it FORCED me to go out and read for others, all the time, every night. I did it b/c i loved it, b/c i was addicted to it, i liked hearing the words "wow, that was so accurate" i loved hearing the apprasails and then one day...it happend...i read an actual death in the cards. It scared me and i put down the cards for a while, only reading for close friends and a few family members. After a while, working through my fears, i made two realizations...
1. Whatever messages i recieve, it is because the querent needs to hear the message, and that judgement (upon myself or others) is not a part of reading.
2. As a seer, i have a duty, an obligation to be willing to counsel those who seek my spiritual advice, and or teachings.
It's not a path I had choose, but I do enjoy this path very much. Now I'm concerned about the people who i do counsel, that they have recieved the answer that their soul was looking for, or perhaps i was able to direct them to what would really help them. Perhaps they came with a question of when will i find love, and i appointed them to the real question of when will you find self love? Helping them into their first glimpses of insight into their soul, helping to heal if i can, give messages if that's what comes, or perhaps share what i've learned if they seek to expand themselves. As a seer, it's is my obligation, my duty, my purpose. It's not to say it is all i am, there are many other thigns and duties that i have in my life, and some do take presedence over this one (my duties as a mother and wife). I can not turn down a person who comes in search for some type of clarity, just as i wouldn't hang the phone up on my best friend when she's in tears. Half the people in this world, their soul cries, i see it in their faces how upset they are, and I help those that come to me as best as i can.
Don't be concerned about "how accurate" you'll be, or if you'll be blocked. A week after i got my cards, i was sitting at denny's all night doing readings. You don't have to do long readings if you don't want to, do short ones, 3 card readings, 5 card readings, until your comfortable. For anyone who'd like more information on this, please pm me, and i'll be happy to share some ideas with them (as i did this for years).
Now I work at a metaphysical bookshop in town as a reader, every saturday. I would work more days but I am a home maker as well, and saturday is the only day i can "get away". I'm willing (if I feel comfortable with the client) to do private readings (usually in my home while hubby is here) as well, and use a cell phone number as my buisness number.
For the most part though, If i'm not at the store, i don't charge people for readings, i just love to read, as i love to help and reading expands my abilities to help a person on another level.
I completely agree with Umbrae here, with reading tarot and having the gift, comes responsibility to the people. If you have the gift to read, then you should be reading for people (when you feel you are ready for the challenge. Find someone to push you out of your closet, because without that initial push out the door, you may never feel ready).
When I first read the question, I formulated an answer, then realised I wasn't answering the question. I was saying why I read for me (which is a valid question in it's own right) but not why I read generally.
I have read every post, and I recommend everyone does this. My thinking changed along the way, thanks to others comments.
So, why do I read (both for myself and for other)?
There is inside of me a feeling that it is something I need to do. I know that I can read, and that there are people who both want and need to be read for.
Debates on finding answers, getting knowledge, etc, these are really questions on why we ask questions. In other words, what we wish to gain from Tarot.
Is it a alterism? Do I read out of a need to do good? Partially, but that does not explain why I read for me. Therefore, the reason is simply that I know I can read, and I feel it is something I need to do. It is like asking, why do I write stories, or build models.
Yes, I do get a certain frisson of pleasure from knowing I have given a good reading. Yes, I do like proving to myself I have the ability. Yes, I do like to recieve others thanks. Yes, I do have an inquisitive side to me that likes to explore, and to know about other. Yes, I am human!
And Umbrae...dont waste your time grading my response. I'll do it for you.
F- :)
Grades are not real, they are a metaphor, an analogy if you will (they were originally used as humor content – however some folks did not see the humor…).
I’d forgotten this thread. I see this year, a ton of A’s would have to awarded.
I was quite pleased and then I read: Originally posted by sagitarian
I learned how to read tarot with my intuition quickly as my teacher took my lwb and threw it out the window of a moving car down a busy street. I had no choice but to read with nothing but my intuition.
And then I read this…Originally posted by sagitarian
I completely agree with Umbrae here, with reading tarot and having the gift, comes responsibility to the people. If you have the gift to read, then you should be reading for people (when you feel you are ready for the challenge. Find someone to push you out of your closet, because without that initial push out the door, you may never feel ready).
Okay here’s the crux…It sounded like I wrote it! If Sagitarian and I agree about “Reading for others”, perhaps it has something to do with our Path of learning (no LWB, no Books etc.)…I don’t know…do you?
Incidentally…mark this thread. Come back in a year and find out if your answer (“Why do you read tarot (for others)) is the same. If it is, you get an F-.
I feel that for some people this is a fascination. These are beautiful pieces of art. Their use in divination is legendary. It may seem like a game at first but it is more. My maternal grandmother's people held the Tarot with great reverance. Tarot found me. It revealed information that helped me understand my heritage. Sometimes they reveal information that is later explained more clearly. Why do I read Tarot? Because it is natural to do this.--Tao
Sillanza
13-07-2004, 02:45
Simple: to gain insight into that which the conscious mind either cannot or will not see.
And they're pretty.
I want to read Tarot because of a childhood memory. It was a very rough time for my Mom. She was taking care of 3 girls, working during the day, going to school a couple of nights a week, and taking care of my Dad who was dying from Cancer. I may have been small, but it didn't take me much to realize, my Mom was going through a hard time.
One day, we all went to my Aunt's house. Us kids were told to go play and Mom and Aunt Nancy went into the bedroom. I watched from the hallway as Aunt Nancy gave my Mom a reading with Tarot cards. I don't remember the reading, but I remember my Mom giving Aunt Nancy a big hug when it was done and thanking her. I remember thinking, "I want to do this". My Mom smiled a bit more that day, and acted a bit stronger. A little more hopeful. It was wonderful.
I want to help others feel like my Mom felt did that day. Even if only for one day, if I can give people some hope, courage and strength from a reading, then it is fulfilling for me.
Mimi
Oh my goodess, Mimi, that is so moving.
Such beautiful, honourable intent.
Thanks Aoife. It was just one of those moments that was always in the back of my mind. Then one day, looking in B&N, I noticed Tarot cards on the shelf and new it must be time to start learning!
I have always liked to make people feel good.
Mimi
Mimers, that was an Artist's Statement to this question, if ever I did hear one. Thank you so much for sharing.
I have been acutely aware of my presence, as a reader, when invited into a home with children nearby while we read. I try to create an environment much like you describe so well. You are an inspiration! :D
During my first weekend as a proud new member of this wonderful corner of cyber space, I sat with a pot of lady gray tea reading through this thread. I found myself smiling, laughing and even shouting "YES!" at the computor screen as I read.
Anyway, just wanted to add a few thoughts of my own...
I've been reading, although not consistantly, for about 13 years. My initial reasons for wanting to read tarot where mainly rebellion aggainst my large Irish catholic family. The idea that tarot would shock and horrify them was a major pull. I wanted to assert my rejection of all I'd been brought up to believe and I saw carrying a tarot deck around with me as a marvellous symbol of that sentiment. I guess it was a way of establishing my identity and my difference from the others. If I say that tie dye, black nail varnish and Nirvana also featured (my poor mother!), you get a worrying image of the kind of moody 14 year old I once was :D
My reasons for reading changed when I was around 20. Like a lot of people of my generation, I entered a bleak depression durring my late teens. For my friends, it was a part of the "scary urban gothic rock chick" image we all subscribed too. However, as we entered our twenties, they all seemed to pull out of it. I didn't. My behaviour frightened me and I couldn't understand why I wasn't happy. That is when I began to turn to my tarot for self discovery, for the answers I was so desperatly seeking. What I later realised was that the answers were within me all along, tarot is a tool I use to access them.
Durring the last few years tarot has played a major role in my exploration and acceptance of my past and I treasure it. The only way I can realy explain it is that it feels like an integrated aspect of my being. Its a language I feel comfortable with. If I had answered this question 5 years ago, I'd of replied that tarot was the means I had of accessing my unconcious and discovering myself.
In the last 5 I've discovered that I can read for others and its the most amazing feeling. I've just completed a diploma in counselling (I officially qualified last week!) and tarot is a tool I hope to try and integrate into my counselling work (and vice-versa). But, its the feeling of working with someone to come to a better understanding of themselves that is entirely fullfilling for me. It invigorates me and realy, its something that makes me feel very much alive.
So at the moment, my answer to the question is that I believe that reading tarot for myself and others is healing. Also, I believe that there is no greater gift that I can give to another person than to get alongside them in their struggle and help them to find the way forwards. And another also, whatever healing I give to others is somehow healing me too.
Charming Pixie, how lovely your story is.
Hope you stick around here and post more.
It is a wonderful place to be.
Our cups do indeed runneth over.
terri
I am sooo glad this came up so I got to see it. :o)
It has gotten me thinking and I both agree and disagree with a lot of the statements that have been brought up..
First off. I disagree with the sentiment that my ability to read the cards automatically gives me an obligation to share the gift and read for whomever asks.
Secondly. I agree with the statements that one is obligated to help ones fellow wo/man in any way one can.
Sometimes this help can be given through the use of tarot.
But we must also remember that it can just as easily be given by darting a smile at a glum looking stranger on the bus to brighten his or her day, by holding a door open so the person coming through it does not have to change their grip on the heavy bags he or she is carrying, by listening to a friend or stranger that needs to get something off his or her chest to feel better, by giving a child a bandaid for a scratched knee, by stopping by at the old peoples home and listen to someone talk about old times over a game of canasta, by giving advice to someone based on experience and intuition or by helping someone pick up groceries when they are sick and unable to get to the store on their own...
There are soooo many ways of extending the charmic helping hand to the people around us, so let us not stare blindly on the cards while holding our ears and chanting "everything I need is in these pictures".
Yes, tarot is an incredible way of helping others.
It is also an incredible way to find onself and evolve, grow and learn so that one becomes more of a complete person and a happier one, thus having more positive energy to spread to others.
But sometimes we need to look away from the tarot and see that people may not be in need of just that particular solution at this particular time... We need to be aware enough to sometimes say "no, I can not help you, you don't need tarot to help you, you need ..." ("..." being whatever feels right to recommend).
Personally, I also read tarot because I can. And not only this but also because it gives me insight to myself and teaches me about my patterns.
I can be pretty warped at times, but since I started looking into tarot (and doing yoga) I have become so much more balanced and functional.
This in itself helps me become a stable enough person to help others, which helps others wether i use the tarot or not when they need my help..
And now, I'm off to read other threads.. Will be back to check up on thisone though.
There are alredy a lot of pages with a lot of great thoughts and undoubtedly there will be more to come.
CharmingPixie, that is a very inspiering story! I am so moved by it. Congrats on the counceling degree. I am sure you will help many people
Eco74 I agree with you. There are many ways to help our fellow man/woman and they are all equally important.
Mimi
That post just felt so long I forgot about the classroom...
*walks to the back of the room for very different reasons*
In what would be the equivalent of highscool, I had an englishteacher who appointed me, very unwillingly on my end, her star pupil.
The only reason I was good (based on the standard for that age, I have improved much since) was that I somehow had picked up on most of the things we were learning and so I did have an answer to any question she threw my way..
BUT to be an unwilling teachers pet (and rescue) is not such a comfortable route as one might think.
Yes I got all the highest grades for practically just sitting there, answering her questions (which I got every time noone else in the class could provide the answer) and getting the tests right enough..
But it was terribly uninspiring. I learned almost nothing new in all those lessons and it bored me so badly I used to sit and dream away in class. She didn't even scold me ever so slitely when I had not paid attention to the question. She would just repeat it, and ofcourse I knew the answer every time...
And this was the "advanced" class...
So, do you mind if I just sit back here and stay out of sight for a while, maybe vanish in the crowd and stay hidden behind the waving arms in front?
There can be other reasons than feeling like a failiure to want to stay in the background...
Do what feels right Eco74. That is the beauty of this place ;)
Stop by and say hello every now and then.
Imagemaker
21-07-2004, 17:14
since I started looking into tarot (and doing yoga) I have become so much more balanced and functional.
This in itself helps me become a stable enough person to help others,
Well said! Once we fill the holes in ourselves (an ongoing process) and get better and better at maintaining our balance, we have the resources to give to others. Fill the cup so it can pour out . . .
(I realize I'm repeating what you said. Just wanted to affirm it!)
Originally posted by Mimers
I want to read Tarot because of a childhood memory. It was a very rough time for my Mom. She was taking care of 3 girls, working during the day, going to school a couple of nights a week, and taking care of my Dad who was dying from Cancer. I may have been small, but it didn't take me much to realize, my Mom was going through a hard time.
One day, we all went to my Aunt's house. Us kids were told to go play and Mom and Aunt Nancy went into the bedroom. I watched from the hallway as Aunt Nancy gave my Mom a reading with Tarot cards. I don't remember the reading, but I remember my Mom giving Aunt Nancy a big hug when it was done and thanking her. I remember thinking, "I want to do this". My Mom smiled a bit more that day, and acted a bit stronger. A little more hopeful. It was wonderful.
I want to help others feel like my Mom felt did that day. Even if only for one day, if I can give people some hope, courage and strength from a reading, then it is fulfilling for me.
Mimi
Hi Mimers,
I'm sitting here blubbering over this story. Of course, I'm someone who cries in the greeting card aisle of the store, but this was just so precious this story. Thanks for touching my heart with it.
This story should make every one of us stop for a moment and realize the power that the deck in our hands has for the non-reader. It humbles me to be able to say, "I'm a Tarot card reader." Of course, I have a long way to go before I really feel like a bona fide Tarot card reader, but I'm in the family!
Okay, I admit I have not read all 15 pages of this thread. I'll go back and get to them, I promise, but I wanted to answer the question. The question of why I read the Tarot and do i share the talent with others.
Why I read the cards changes with the tide, the day of the week and my hormone levels! I say this because I'm a changing, evolving woman who is growing and transforming daily. My core values ground me, however I cannot be held to one definition about the Tarot other than to say-
I read because as long as there are stories to tell and people who are in need of understanding why their story is at all special, then the cards in my hand and the prayer in my heart compels me to.
I read so that people can be captured for a moment of timelessness and suspend their disbelief and cynicism and be caught up in how wonderous life is.
I read because have you ever noticed how strangers approach people with babies? They show such a softness and openess to the baby, then look at you and step back and the light goes out in their eyes a little. The love is shaded, that was there just moments ago for the little life in your arms. Well, when I'm reading for someone, that light comes back into a stranger's eyes again, and suddenly we are not strangers. We are connected, forever, we have shared something, and it is a total wall breaker.
I could go on. But the second question interests me too.
How can we not read for others?
How do some of you resist it? It is like a denial.
I was in the waiting room of a very busy dental school. My student was on his way to fetch me and I sat reading a book about Tarot. The guy next to me was very fidgety. Another student was passing out surveys and so I put my book away and began taking the survey.
The guy next to me began talking to me.
He was ina car accident the day before only he didn't realize he hit someone! When he got home that night the cops were waiting for him in his driveway. Long story short he was charged with leaving the scene of an accident. He was going to find out the next day if he would also lose his license for a year.
He was pretty worried.
Suddenly it hits me, I have a deck in my bag, I can read for him!
So I look him in the eye, and say,"Don't worry. Everything is going to be fine. I have my Tarot deck, lets take a look and see what is happening with this, ok?"
He of course embraces the idea and right in the middle of everything I'm reading for him. (sorry Umbrae, it was the Whimsical I had, but he didn't seem to notice....) Anyway, the new is good. He won't lose his license, but he has to make apologies and play nice and be nice or his temper and edgy side will work against him, hard.
He was ecstatic. And he couldn't thank me enough because he said he was so pissed about the whole thing...his temper was getting the best of him.
Then his student appears and off they go, and I never got a chance to tell him he owed me about $25. LOL!
Originally posted by elf
I read because as long as there are stories to tell and people who are in need of understanding why their story is at all special, then the cards in my hand and the prayer in my heart compels me to.
I read so that people can be captured for a moment of timelessness and suspend their disbelief and cynicism and be caught up in how wonderous life is.
I read because have you ever noticed how strangers approach people with babies? They show such a softness and openess to the baby, then look at you and step back and the light goes out in their eyes a little. The love is shaded, that was there just moments ago for the little life in your arms. Well, when I'm reading for someone, that light comes back into a stranger's eyes again, and suddenly we are not strangers. We are connected, forever, we have shared something, and it is a total wall breaker.
These are all very good reasons! Thanks Elf.
IF I were the Proctor, I’d have to be gathering tests about now. Some of you have done very well. A’s would be assigned. I see there is even a new teacher. But I am not a proctor.
Some absolutely poetic posts lately that reek and seethe of truth have been written of late; some even perhaps touched with a spark of divine wisdom…
:smoker:
Adjustment
14-12-2004, 18:38
I read tarot because it make me feel good about myself.
Umbrae: Why can one not read for spiritual AND secular reasons? Why does one have to be on one side or the other?
*Diana wonders if this will get her kicked out of the examination hall* :D
(P.S: Holmes, "secular" means non-religious, or relating to temporal, worldly concerns.)
I read for both reasons.....
And umbrae the smell was ....insight....with a pinch of clarity...:D
In any case I don't believe in the 'only correct answer' to anything. It brings out the scientist in me (or the sceptic if you prefer.) I want to ask 'who says?' and 'how do you know?' and 'what about ...?'
You are clearly passionate about your views and many people are finding them helpful. I can't sort out whether I agree or disagree with what you write because of the static caused by my dislike of authoritarian statements.
I don't believe that there is a right or a wrong way to read, or that it is important to get our egos out of the way when we read. But then I only read for myself. Not really for growth, in my view, but for fun. Like reading books.
Maybe I should read your post simply as a statement of what it is like for you, then I would feel less wound up by it. You clearly read intuitively and well for other people. You have had moments of intuition that are so strong that they 'scare the crap out of you'. Your querents come to you for something they can't get elsewhere and are helped by you. I'm glad that it works so well both for you and for your querents.
But it isn't like that for me, and I don't expect it to be. I'm on a different path and whether I'm headed in the same direction or not, who knows?
Be still, my heart! What a perfect distillation of the same perspective I have come to in my own spiritual/secular/alloftheabove/noneoftheabove practice/life/search. I used to be more like Umbrae, a passionate devotee of the concept of universal truth and 'getting it right.' And now, ironically, I don't believe such things because my ego has gotten more out of the way. Certainly, there's some things that are universal. But the individual experience of them is highly idiosyncratic. Ain't nothin' anyone has to do to 'get it right.' The whole idea of 'getting it right' is an ego-construction.
I also think the division between "helping oneself" and "helping others" is an ego-construction. I find that a lot of people that operate on the belief they are helping others are actually desperately clawing for some sense of confirmation and self-worth - it becomes an exercise of ego. Some of the most "selfish" people I know are the most helpful and supportive to others - you can't help others if your own sh*t ain't straight! And sometimes, the best and only and most helpful thing we can do in the world is just survive for ourselves day to day.
This isn't to say that I don't like and agree with a lot of Umbrae's ideas here. I love his posts, and usually find them quite thought-provoking and inspiring. I definitely agree that it's good to force yourself to get out of your comfort zone, and that it all comes down to identifying what someone needs or is looking for rather than obsessing over the details of the cards, etc. But like fairyhedgehog, I disagree with the placement of so many of these arbitrary distinctions.
Telling someone what they want to hear and/or making them feel better is often the least helpful thing a person can do! It feels good to the person doing the "helping," but then the person they've "helped" goes on to take the easy route of being comforted and reassured when maybe what they really needed was a firm kick in the butt. So making people feel good is often more about the person doing the warming of hearts than the people whose hearts are being warmed. An easing off of the existential guilt, I suppose. And for those of us who remain skeptical over whether our intuitive "kicks" are telegrams from the divine, and think they may instead involve quite a bit of projection, the most "helpful" thing we might do is to avoid stroking someone else's ego for them, or using the guise of "helping" to stroke our own.
One of the strongest and most compassionate and generous people I know surprised me early on in my history of knowing him by saying that one of his guiding principles in life was this: "I do what I want." How can he say that - don't we all find ourselves doing things for others that we really don't want to do? But I realize that the bottom line is that if we're not doing what we want to do, we've not got a strong enough base to lend true support to anyone else.
I've found that often people who operate on an ideal of "spiritual service" are also operating on a huge base of guilt or inferiority, this idea that they can somehow make amends for existing by always giving. And it's all about them, when you strip it down to raw honesty. Yeah, it's good to help people. But it's also good to help yourself. And the former can't happen before the latter has. When it comes down to it, I don't think we get a cosmic grade when we die. We either survive, or we don't, and we may or may not love and be loved or help or be helped along the way. Such is life.
Certainly, giving of oneself is a joy. But only when one does it because one wants to, rather than out of a sense of duty and obligation. Doormats are overrated - people will find a place to wipe off their sh*t with or without 'em.
Ever seen Kurosawa’s Rashomon? Perhaps you should. Especially if you believe there is only one reality.
“Chris-in-the-Morning” says, “…Happiness doesn’t come from having things – Right? It comes from being part of things.”
He also said, “The molecules shift, then everything goes back to normal. But everything’s different.”
And, “’Ghastly, grim, and ancient raven, wandring from the nightly shore
Tell me what thy lordly name is on the night’s plutonian shore!
Quoth the Raven, ‘Nevermore'.’ Well that’s how Mr. Poe saw the raven. A lot of references in Western Literature do tend toward the negative. Like with most things in life, when it comes to transcendental symbols, one man’s savior is another man’s pair of lead boots.”
Thank’s Chris…
Ain't nothin' anyone has to do to 'get it right.' The whole idea of 'getting it right' is an ego-construction.
I also think the division between "helping oneself" and "helping others" is an ego-construction.
Interesting idea, though I don't agree. It seems less like an ego-construction and more like enlightenment to me. I help others because it helps myself. Because I'm good at it. Because when I had reached a certain point in my life, I began to feel that all life is connected, and that others' hurts affect me, as well. Just as others' pollution affects the air that I breathe and the water that I drink.
I read for insight, and for personal growth. For truth, and also to experience the Divine, to allow my Deities to speak to me, and through me.
That said, I do not read for strangers right now. Why? Oh, because of fear. Fear I'll get it 'wrong', fear they'll tell me I'm going to hell, so on and so forth. I know this is a fear I'll get past-but it will take a little time. Baby steps. Coming to this forum-registering-participating-reading for some of the AT people--they're all baby steps. Am I doing all this solely so I can help others? Actually not. I'm mostly doing it to confront my fears. However, when I've succeeded, I doubt I'll stop reading for others. Then I will be reading because I want to help people. For the reasons above.
'Course a lot of this has to do with my spiritual philosophy. I don't think we're here just to do stuff, buy stuff and die. I think we're here to learn, and to grow. To love. There isn't a Big Daddy who gives us a grade when we die--we do. We grade ourselves because then we will be able to see clearly, what we now see as only through a mirror darkly...or through a Tarot card. ;)
Ambyr_rain
19-12-2004, 11:58
I got into tarot because it was part of my spiritual learning. I now read because it is a part of me. I would read only my friends because of my being unsure and self concious about my readings. I am more confident now and will read for just about anyone.
To me Tarot is actually a way for me to learn. Not just about others but about my self. It helps me to grow. It helps me to stretch my psychic wings. It helps me to hone in on my intuition.
That is why I read Tarot.
srgnosis
25-09-2005, 23:20
It seemed like a good idea at the time.
:TTOW
Now I wonder...:)
I don't read tarot much. I read about it more. I think about it. I paint it. I used to read it for myself and others (as part of psychotherapy), so it didn't 'feel' like reading. It was more examining the cards with the person and exploring what they saw, what doors it opened for them ... same when reading for myself.
I don't do that for others anymore, or even for myself much. Quite frankly, I don't have the energy, not well enough, and I live a hermit's life.
I guess if I was on the road somewhere (as I plan to be someday), and was drawing a few cards for myself and I was asked .... I would probably read for that person. I have little confidence in my ability to read, but if someone was needy, that wouldn't matter. Their need would outweigh my bullsh*t.
Of the reading I do do, I don't know why I do it, except that I can't leave tarot alone. It's got me by my non-existent spheroids. I can't shake it loose. I don't want to. I just lives in me whether I read it or not.
mythos:)
Edited to add: Due to the practice thread in reading for others with the TdM, I had an insight into my Hermit position ... I have always thought of him as my ally ... now I realise he is also my ...'hide now' foe. How often I use him as an excuse to NOT confront my fears/challenges .... I hadn't realised.
So why don't I read for others? Fear!
I'll do readings every now and then for people I know but I tend to get stage fright when reading for others. Otherwise I'd read for others more.
I have walked away from my tarot cards many times asking why do i do this and keep telling myself to stop. As a matter a fact i have almost stop reading for myself. If you would like a close reprisentation of why i stopped reading for myself go watch the first half of the movie spiderman.
If you would like to know why i still read for others and haven't stopped reading go watch spiderman 2. The part where he stops beeing spiderman and his powers go, hit close to home. I don't know why i found that deck when i was 12. But i have used it to do go scince. Replace the bad guys with religous nuts If you want, reading for others will always have it down sides and we don't have to read for others. it can be to much.
Yes super powers might be an exstreme to compare it to but i always found fiction puts life in perspective and spidy is a very human super hero.
I have read everyone's thread about why people read the Tarot and i agree what Umrae's views on why people are missing the chance, on using the Tarot for the good of helping someone in need. I was surprise that most people dont use the Tarot for it's purpose, Two year's ago i was working has a Retail Manager for a well known Shop, and i suddenly woke up one morning and i decided to follow this path, it just came out of the blue too my Family and Friends, and to this day i have never looked back on my decision about reading Tarot, for people who needed Guidence in there lives
I have read everyone's thread about why people read the Tarot and i agree what Umrae's views on why people are missing the chance, on using the Tarot for the good of helping someone in need. I was surprise that most people dont use the Tarot for it's purpose, Two year's ago i was working has a Retail Manager for a well known Shop, and i suddenly woke up one morning and i decided to follow this path, it just came out of the blue too my Family and Friends, and to this day i have never looked back on my decision about reading Tarot, for people who needed Guidence in there lives
:D :D :D :D :D
(Edited to add....)
I just realized from a PM I received that my big smilies may have been taken by others as meaing I did not respect each person's reason for reading the Tarot....not at all!! We all use the Tarot for different purposes and to serve different personal needs...I whole-heartedly endorse that....
My smilies were simply to say that ...basically, I, too, woke up one day and decided to follow this path....as I said earlier in this thread...when I read the Tarot for others, my cup runneth over...my cup of love is never empty...
t
bleu_bell
27-09-2005, 17:15
I read tarot because I feel compelled to. I have always been interested in the unexplainable, have always felt a strong connection to something I could neither explain or see but all I know is that reading tarot makes me feel "connected" somehow. I rarely get to read for other people, mostly because the people who know I read it are either frightened by it or think it's silly. The few who do want readings, I give freely and I hope, as accurately as possible.
I have read everyone's thread about why people read the Tarot and i agree what Umrae's views on why people are missing the chance, on using the Tarot for the good of helping someone in need. I was surprise that most people dont use the Tarot for it's purpose, Two year's ago i was working has a Retail Manager for a well known Shop, and i suddenly woke up one morning and i decided to follow this path, it just came out of the blue too my Family and Friends, and to this day i have never looked back on my decision about reading Tarot, for people who needed Guidence in there lives
Congratulations Deanres. Yes, there are so many people who need guidance. I used to work in social work and psych, and my supervisor, a very experienced social worker and psychologist said that, if in need, she always sought out a tarot reader. I thought that it was an interesting comment indeed on the limitations of both social work and psych, and I certainly find that, as a self-development tool, tarot digs deeper and is more effective.
I do so like to hear of people who follow their calling like you have, and Umbrae's point is well-taken. Just wish I had the energy and the confidence in my own abilities to follow it. When I read your words, and Elven's experiences at the Cafe .... I feel the tremendous specialness of the gift given by committed readers.
Your decision and attitude is inspirational.
mythos:)
I would like to say thanks to everyone who read and supported my thoughts about Umrae's excellent thread, it is an interesting subject and i want to wish TMGRL2 and Mythos all the best with their Tarot paths fot the Future, and i'am looking forward to hearing everyone's nextTarot threads.
Thanks, Deanres!!
Good to have you here at AT! Will look forward to seeing more of your posts!
terri
The Tarot and The Oracle, like a Father and a Mother - I love them.
They have been there to teach, encourage, support, enlighten, hug, comfort, celebrate, discipline and provide their wisdom, to me, throughout my life. They are the best 'parents' I could ever have hope for. When I go to them, I go as a child.
I read because I love to, and they love me back :P
Blessings
Elven x
Here is something odd. When I first replied to this thread (wow, nearly four years ago) I rarely read for anyone else, for a number of different reasons. In the last year I began reading for others much more often. I now have to add the satisfaction in helping others, and while my other motivations are still there, they have shifted a bit. Evolution is a good thing. :D
ShekinahMoon
13-10-2005, 10:23
Why do I read Tarot?
Because it helps me to sort through the million of thoughts I have in a day to focus on what will be important for that day. This way I focus my energy on that which will benefit my day instead of focusing energy on any and everything and not getting much done. Reading Tarot every morning helps to generate a focused, quite and spiritual energy that I carry through the rest of my day.
I started reading tarot for myself at the age of 13 because there was no-one around I could ask for advice in personal matters. I started doing readings for other ppl some years ago, first among friends but then for strangers because I had vowed it to the Great Goddess (sounds crazy?) but also because I realized there are more and more ppl stumbling around and looking for help or at least someone who takes them serious.
Besides, I want to show ppl here in Germany that Tarot is nothing only related to Gypsys and Fairs etc but a serious means of self development. I don't want to become a Guru or something like that, I just want to add my tuppence to make this word a better place.
The Tarot and The Oracle, like a Father and a Mother - I love them.
They have been there to teach, encourage, support, enlighten, hug, comfort, celebrate, discipline and provide their wisdom, to me, throughout my life. They are the best 'parents' I could ever have hope for. When I go to them, I go as a child.
I read because I love to, and they love me back :P
Blessings
Elven x
I love you too Elven!
*hugs hugs hugs hugs hugs hugs hugs hugs* for elf!!! We love you too!!
Blessings
Elven x
I read 'em cause when I'm all outta answers and need some, they give good advice.
fools_fool :D
Crystelle
17-10-2005, 15:29
I read because the cards make physical for others what I can see with no cards... I have experienced that no matter what I might SAY to someone seeking my advice, they are more responsive when I SHOW them the cards. For this reason I am slightly afraid to read on the reading exchange because I have a theory that my "feelings" about things will not be there for someone who is halfway across the world... though I haven't tried so I couldn't know... I feel that tarot is part of a path that I am called to by my heritage. I think that anyone that does have a gift is probably being called as well but fortunately, regardless of which higher power you call out to, I have found most religions recognize the importance of free will...
SeleneSeven
18-10-2005, 01:55
I think of the cards as a tool that can open us up to unrecognized possibilities. I first began to read tarot for a lark, just to see what would happen. I got freaked out a few times when I got some hits on unpleasant subjects and stopped for a while. The cards were always waiting for me when I wanted to pick them up again.
Lately, though, I have been compelled to read in a way I haven't experienced before. So now I read because I must.
Moonbow*
18-10-2005, 02:29
My reasons for why I read Tarot have changed since I started, and will no doubt change again and again.
Initially it was out of curiosity and the need to know what it was all about, I guess this reason is still with me because I'm still curious and I still feel that Tarot holds some secrets back from me, I'm gradually teasing them out though.
Now, the reasons have multiplied. I read to help myself understand things, to help others with decisions and also to sometimes put their minds at rest, but increasingly I find the Tarot helps my own spiritual journey and helps me to understand other people. I read every day and meditate on Tarot everyday.
... and what a huge book of knowledge it is too, why put a good book down when there is still some excitement to be had out of it.
I wish I could say something deeply philosophical about 'why I read Tarot'.
I have read and re read this thread everytime it comes up. Tarot is so many things as I told someone in chat. It is Art in miniature, it fulfills the collector in me, my love of history is fueled, just to name three mundane things it does for me.
But why do I read tarot? Well when Tarot picked me up with obvious intent some twenty years ago( a poster, a book gift and a deck purchase) I was looking for some expression to having a spiritual belief. I read the book, studied the cards and recognised a symbolic pattern and followed the directions. The directions said how to read for people. So I read for others; that is what I believed you did with Tarot!!! I was competent at it and it made sense. I am a very good paper bag folder. Over the years while I helped others see another way of thinking, I absorbed the lessons and I changed. All the other sidetrack things like collecting came much later. Later still came reading for myself; and I still have difficulty seeing for myself clearly. There is not a day goes by that I do not use my cards. Does anyone remember a game called 'The Magic Robot' 24 sheets of questions and answers - a magnetic mirror and a little robot with a pointer? If you do then you will understand -I am just the little robot and Tarot is the magnetic mirror. ~Rosanne
Moongold
23-10-2005, 17:25
I wanted to piggy back onto Rosanne's post because once I asked her if she is compelled to read Tarot :).
I discovered Tarot by chance three years ago when a book fell off a library shelf one Saturday afternoon. I read the book on the week end and by the following Wednesday had purchased my first deck.
I was compelled, certainly drawn. Eventually I found this site (Aeclectic) and was drawn to reading, and to study.
Once I understood the images, to be honest, the first things Tarot gave me was personal insight. Then I began to read for others, something which has always given me lots of pleasure. These days, I primarily read for myself as a matter of spiritual understanding. A very strange period in my life is coming to an end, and I need to decide where to go from here. Tarot will be a part of that. I want to read for others. How much I do that face to face or how much over the Internet is unknown right now. I am exploring both possibilities.
Considering the possibilities above I have been trying for the last four months to get to know my decks better. I will read primarily with the Marseille (am getting another Heron Marseille just for this purpose) and with the Universal Waite. I have been studying both of these decks for some time, and particularly practising with the Marseille. I have been primarily reading with the Fournier but am now drawn to the Heron, which is more subtle. I find the combination of using Marseille and RWS hugely beneficial and complementary but regard the Marseille as the premier authority.
Umbrae asks Why? . I want to give to others in an unselfish way. I love the Tarot and believe in its infinite possibilities as the voice of the Divine, or of God/ess, whatever term one uses. I have much to learn and the Marseille offers infinite possibilities in learning.
I also like the people who read Tarot. They tend to be interested in similar things, share similar beliefs and to be curious about the world. Tarot offers a unique window between the world and the country of the Gods. At the same time it also offers practical advice about daily living!
Moongold
I find the combination of using Marseille and RWS hugely beneficial and complementary but regard the Marseille as the premier authority........
....Tarot offers a unique window between the world and the country of the Gods.
Moongold
That last sentence MoonGold is totally printable!!!! That is the expression of spiritual belief that I was unable to find in the practise of a religion.Please, I do not think Tarot is a religion! It is an expression of a spiritual system for me.It is a guide and a compass, that through reading I have beeen lucky enough to be able to convey to others. I have never considered myself to be a 'Fortune Teller' in the usual conotation of the words.
I have used RWS mostly, and through this forum found the Marseilles. That was an epiphany for me! So I am learning to walk all over again. Then maybe I will read for others again with this marvellous system called Tarot. Meantime I am learning TdM alongside Rohrig as contrast. I am using two modern Decks together(I want a Thoth like deck, without using Thoth :D )and Major Toms TdM, and I keep my RWS close at hand as a security blanket ;). ~Rosanne