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faunabay
17-11-2007, 05:15
While I'm extremely glad I bought Sylvie's book!! I respect her knowledge immensely! Along with her book, I wanted something else to reference while learning the lenormand. So when I learned about the Treppner Course I jumped at it. While it's written in german there is an english translation version you can buy.

The Treppner Course is a computer book that Iris Treppner will email to you in a couple of different files. I received the course within an hour of sending them the money!! WOW! That was quick!! :) It's very informative but at the same time she makes a point of telling you her information is just a jumping off point. You should take what she says and make it your own by adding your own twists and thoughts.

It also takes you through the learning process more slowly. Which is more comfortable for me at this point. I had NO exposure to lenormand what so ever before buying my first deck. So I wanted a complete baby step way to learn. I'm enjoying it immensely and wanted to let others know there is something else out there in english!! :*

Astraea
17-11-2007, 05:29
The Treppner course is wonderful. You can buy the entire text from Iris Treppner for a little over 24 Euros, which is what I recommend for English-speaking students; the full price of 49.50 Euros also enables entrance into the Treppner forum, but most of the threads there are in German.

You can find the course at http://www.treppner-kartenlegen.de/index.php?id=320&no_cache=1. Click on "Lenormand Fernstudium" (the third button on the left-side navigation bar) and scroll down to the part of the page that says "Documents Only." People who don't speak German will need to use Google Translate or BabelFish to read the page, because the website is entirely in German.

The English translation of the course is excellent. The course is sold for as little as $1 on eBay, but that constitutes a violation of the Treppners' copyright -- the 24-Euro course is worth the price, and it will help to support the Treppners' good work.

Thanks for starting this thread, Faunabay, I agree with you that here is another great English-language tool for learning!

Lee
17-11-2007, 05:38
I agree with faunabay, I too purchased the Treppner course materials, I think they're great!

For anyone interested, here's how I ordered it:

The full course costs around $75 in US dollars, and that includes the pdf files for the textbook, and access to the forum where you can get feedback and dialogue with other students. Unfortunately the forum is in German so it doesn't us much good, unless you're fluent in German, which I'm not! She also provides the pdf files in an English translation, but no English forum.

Iris has just started selling the pdf files, both English and German, for half the course price, 24.90 euros. So you're getting all the pdf files, just no forum access. I think for the price it's a good deal for what you get. I haven't counted the pages but the pdf files add up to something like 130 pages, it's a sizeable book.

If you're interested, here (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.treppner-kartenlegen.de%2Findex.php%3Fid%3D189&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8)is the web page, translated (badly) by Google.

If you scroll down the page, you'll see "Payment distant learning materials
for 24.90 euros", and below that a button that says "Jetzt Kaufen". If you
click that, it takes you to a Paypal page in German. When you log in on your
Paypal account (assuming you have one), it's then in English and you just
click the "pay now" button.

There's nowhere in that Paypal procedure to write a note to the vendor, so I
sent an e-mail afterwards to:

info@treppner-kartenlegen.de

asking them to please send the English version.

-- Lee

Lee
17-11-2007, 05:39
LOL, Astraea and I posted simultaneously. Well, as they say, great minds think alike! :)

-- Lee

Astraea
17-11-2007, 05:46
Lee, you did a much better job describing the ordering process than I did! You really explain everything well and people will be able to follow those instructions easily.

faunabay
17-11-2007, 05:46
I've been doing what Astraea brought up quite a few weeks ago. I've been drawing two cards each morning, but leaving them face down. Then in the evening I turn them over and see how I can apply them to my day. It had been extremely interesting and informative.
Iris Treppner talks about drawing one card, but Astraea and I do two. :) It helps me to learn the combinations easier!

6 Haunted Days
17-11-2007, 07:19
I wish I could afford this right now, it looks very comfortable and a slower/relaxed way to learn....plus I will need a way to pay online, which I don't have grrrr. Someday perhaps!

But I do look forward to everyone's thoughts and insights....any tidbit I will soak up and learn! :) So bring it on peoples lol.

I am going to start the 2 card a day deal in the morning then read them later. Great idea.

Gavriela
17-11-2007, 15:14
Guido (Iris's boyfriend, also the guy who translated the materials into English) is a member here - NoCoolName is his nick. Somebody might want to give him a shout as to what's up, because if you're going to use the materials, then that's only polite. Or I can give him a yell if you'd prefer. I don't know if he checks in here much anymore, because the Lenormand interest died down until Sylvie's book came out - it kind of goes in waves here.

There is an English section over at Rue de Tournon (Iris's forum), but it's pretty small. It does help to speak German if you're over there - questions get answered faster. But don't let that deter you - we do have a few English speakers there, too (I have been woefully negligent about checking in lately, I admit).

Lenormand being Lenormand, I don't agree with all of the Treppner interpretations - but I doubt they do either. I wrote ten or eleven pages of possible Scythe combos out once, just as an exercise - that didn't even cover every possibility, and the thought of anyone publishing that much per card - it's just not going to happen, no publisher would do it.

The Treppners are delightful people, and they certainly know their stuff. I learned the full board reading method I use from Kathe and Werner, and have made up my own shorter spreads. If you want to go with 'French method' and 'German method', it may be that the French method is the one that uses the Querent's card (Lady or Gentleman) to demarcate past/present/future, whilst the 'German method' uses the whole board of 36 cards as the future - past events showing up as they affect the present, but not having a particular position. It actually does make sense once you wrap your head around it - I promise!

Guido used to sell the course on ebay for as little as $1. Is somebody else doing that now? I'm certain they'd want to know about it if so, because that is a copyright violation.

Gavriela
17-11-2007, 15:35
Eesh, something else I should mention.

I haven't read Sylvie's book, but she has made it abundantly clear that she does not want her students learning traditional Lenormand methods if they are just starting out learning with her. Now, I disagree with her that traditional methods won't get you accurate readings, but that's neither here nor there.

She's making sense, and I'll tell you why: You're just starting to learn a new language. Stick with one teacher. If you're trying to learn with two radically different methodologies, where even the words don't always mean the same things, you're only going to confuse yourself.

That doesn't mean you can't learn other Lenormand methods later - most of us have picked up any number of things over the years, and hang onto what works. But unless you have some fundamental card knowledge to start with (in whoever's system), it's just going to confuse you. E.g., Iris or I would have a different explanation for the Lillies or the Whips than Sylvie does, and use different combinations for things like sex, love, lust, abuse, etc. Sylvie's combos obviously work in Sylvie's system (or she wouldn't be reading anymore), just like my combos work in my system (or I wouldn't be reading anymore, either ;) ). And Seaqueen's combos work in her system of doing things - she's not around much these days, but she's an outstanding reader, too, and has her own way of doing things - don't rush it, you'll get there.

So you might want to stick with what Sylvie's teaching you until you're more comfortable with the cards overall before you jump into a different view of them entirely. Besides, the lady is trying to sell a book - one of the very few in English about Lenormand. So it's understandable that she doesn't want to give away everything for free on a forum. I probably wouldn't, either. And if you want to see more Lenormand literature in English, you need to respect that.

As ever, just my humble opinion.

Astraea
17-11-2007, 19:41
That is very sensible, down-to-earth yet inspirational counsel, Gavriela. Thank you for putting things into perspective like that and encouraging people to persevere with whichever learning method suits them best.

Lee
17-11-2007, 21:43
Hi Gavriela,

I agree that people working with Sylvie's method might want to consider not reading other materials for as long as they're working on Sylvie's method, and I think you make an excellent point. However, I had decided not to work with Sylvie's method, and thus I was very pleased to learn that there was another source of Lenormand material in English. Since there may be other people in the same situation, I'm glad faunabay posted the info about the Treppner course. I think it's great when people have as many choices as possible to choose from.

I'm completely in favor of politeness, but I'm not quite sure why I need to notify someone after buying the course materials from Iris. Unless I'm misunderstanding...

-- Lee

Gavriela
17-11-2007, 22:11
Oh, no, Lee, you're fine. I like the course that Iris and family put together very much - I just didn't want people to start dissing Sylvie's work, especially if that's what they started out with.

Gavriela
17-11-2007, 22:43
....

The English translation of the course is excellent. The course is sold for as little as $1 on eBay, but that constitutes a violation of the Treppners' copyright -- the 24-Euro course is worth the price, and it will help to support the Treppners' good work....


There may be people selling a pirated version of the course on Ebay but I have seen the Treppners selling it on Ebay from time to time as well, in an attempt to reach out to the English speaking market.

One of the reasons I invited Guido to this forum was to help promote the course - hopefully that's starting to happen now, roundabout way as it is - I just want to make sure he and Iris are aware of what's happening if people are planning to use the course materials over here.

And of course, I'm hopelessly biased, because I do think that their course is the best on the market today in English, I've learnt a lot from Kathe (my own methods are the same and different - that's true of every reader, I think, but I did learn a lot about interpretive methods from her), and I do the odd spot of helping people out over at their forum (much less so since I've been really sick, though).

I just wanted to stay out of it because of possible conflict of interest - Sylvie is here marketing her book. And as I said before - the more information from various points of view on Lenormand in English - the better. And if there is enough English-speaking interest, then there is the board at Rue de Tournon (it does have an English-language section), or it could be done here - just that since we do have a member of the family on this board, it seems courteous to inform him.

You can see some of his introductory material on this board as well - just to to this thread: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=81619

Happy studies, folks! :)

Nina*
17-11-2007, 22:55
I just wanted to stay out of it because of possible conflict of interest - Sylvie is here marketing her book. And as I said before - the more information from various points of view on Lenormand in English - the better. And if there is enough English-speaking interest, then there is the board at Rue de Tournon (it does have an English-language section), or it could be done here - just that since we do have a member of the family on this board, it seems courteous to inform him.

You can see some of his introductory material on this board as well - just to to this thread: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=81619


Thanks for this link, Gavriela. Is this the exact same material as the Treppner one?

Besides that I don't see this could (should!?) cause a conflict; Treppner's material has, as well as Sylvie's book, every right to be marketed here.
I think it's wonderful that we have more than one source.

Gavriela
17-11-2007, 23:02
It isn't the exact same material as the course, Nina - it's drawn from the course, but it's shortened both because people on forums don't like to read 36 lengthy posts in a row and of course it's also advertising - if you like it, you can buy the book and get more.

It's tip-of-the-iceberg stuff, in other words, and was done to try to generate some interest.

Well - maybe we finally have. It just strikes me as ironic the way it came about - but I'm glad that Lenormand and the Treppners are both getting some long-overdue attention.

Nina*
17-11-2007, 23:11
Well - maybe we finally have. It just strikes me as ironic the way it came about - but I'm glad that Lenormand and the Treppners are both getting some long-overdue attention.
Yes. You're right! :heart:

Gavriela
17-11-2007, 23:20
For future reference, the LEGIT Ebay ID for the course is mlle_lenormand

Astraea
17-11-2007, 23:37
There may be people selling a pirated version of the course on Ebay but I have seen the Treppners selling it on Ebay from time to time as well, in an attempt to reach out to the English speaking market.
Thank you for posting the legitimate eBay contact name for the Treppners. Their website includes a plea for people to purchase the material from them, so it's good to know that they have a presence of their own on eBay.

Sheri
18-11-2007, 02:32
I, for one, am excited to see different methods of reading Lenormand coming out. In my opinion, being exposed to different methodologies in reading Lenormand is no different than a new Tarot reader being exposed to different methodologies reading Tarot. I think it is exciting when an author or deck creator stops in and offers members insight and guidance into their methods or what they produced because members here showed interest in it.

This forum is exclusive to no one person's method. ALL methods of reading ALL cards are welcome here for our benefit, so we can pick and choose and tweak what works best for us. After all, the power of the tools comes from us. :D

Mmmmmm, Lenormand smorgy is open :D

valeria (shameless enabler of Oracle studies)

faunabay
18-11-2007, 10:04
I just wanted to stay out of it because of possible conflict of interest - Sylvie is here marketing her book. And as I said before - the more information from various points of view on Lenormand in English - the better. And if there is enough English-speaking interest, then there is the board at Rue de Tournon (it does have an English-language section), or it could be done here - just that since we do have a member of the family on this board, it seems courteous to inform him.


I wanted to start this thread to let people know there is another english "book" available on lenormand. But this whole "marketing" thing....I don't like our forum here turning into a place to come only to "market" your wares. I realize it happens now and again but that's what the advertising section is for.

Just being honest....that's what turned me off of Sylvie's threads. It didn't seem to be a true passing on of information but a marketing tool. I've said quite a few times - I love Sylvie's book (am very glad I bought it) and I respect her knowledge. She has alot of information in there and I really like her no lay out way of reading.

But what I've loved for many years about aeclectic has been how "real" people can get together and talk about things - with maybe a author or artist jumping in every once in a while to give a bit of information. But then leaving us to our own. For example Mary Greer stops by on occasion to the 21 Ways study group based on her book. But she leaves them to what they're doing. She doesn't try to steer them in any way.

And while I think it's wonderful that Guido is here on aeclectic I, like Lee, don't see why it would be "courteous" to let him know we're talking about the Treppner Course. I'm sure if he gets on aeclectic now and again he'll see that we are. And I'd welcome his comments as long as they don't turn into a marketing tool.

I think, again to be honest, Sylvie has made me a bit sensitive to the "marketing ploy". "Let me be your teacher but you have to buy what I'm selling first." :( I know I'll get over it, but that's where I am right now. I'm sorry if I've offended anyone, but you know....honesty and all that. :)

faunabay
18-11-2007, 10:10
Besides that I don't see this could (should!?) cause a conflict; Treppner's material has, as well as Sylvie's book, every right to be marketed here.
I think it's wonderful that we have more than one source.

I started to type something kind of nasty and edited myself. :)

What it boils down to is there is NO conflict when providing honest information. When "real" people are passing on information about something they enjoyed and learned alot from....Great! You all know that authors aren't "real" people don't you? LOL

I hope you get what I'm trying to say. When people are excited about something and pass on the information that's entirely something different than marketing to make money.

Astraea
18-11-2007, 10:35
When we let one another know about a good thing, when we pool our information and brainstorm, the alchemy can be wonderful...something might be born that turns out to be greater than the sum of its parts. I appreciate choice, and the opportunity to share with fellow Aeclecticians independently of marketing issues, per se. It's one of the things that makes this forum special.

faunabay
18-11-2007, 10:45
When we let one another know about a good thing, when we pool our information and brainstorm, the alchemy can be wonderful...something might be born that turns out to be greater than the sum of its parts. I appreciate choice, and the opportunity to share with fellow Aeclecticians independently of marketing issues, per se. It's one of the things that makes this forum special.


EXACTLY!!
Thank you for saying it so well!!

Nina*
18-11-2007, 11:38
I started to type something kind of nasty and edited myself. :)

By all means... get nasty... I assure you I can take it! :)


Besides that I agree... Sylvie's way of ''teaching'' has put me off too.
I like her book though (well, I like the card interpretations), but if I would have to choose I'd prefer Treppner's material.

faunabay
18-11-2007, 11:46
By all means... get nasty... I assure you I can take it! :)


**ROFL**

I'm not sure I can though. :D

Beside it wasn't a nasty comment directed to you but just about the whole situation. I agree with what you said completely.

MatPoint
18-11-2007, 11:56
Yes, I don't like Sylvies ways of marketing her book either. I made it clear in another post.

About the Treppner course is just great. As Gavriela said, it is just the greatest course available in English language.

Not only they give you a long list of combos, but also very detailed meanings. In addition, I think that the strongest point of Treppner's book is the reading techniques.

The "Time Board" is just great. I would change a few things here (meanings), but the method is very useful.

WolfyJames
18-11-2007, 12:58
Personaly, I am thankful that Sylvie showed up and talked about her book and I am glad to have it, it's filled with good informations. It is better than the books I've seen in French on the Petit LeNormand. I think it's nice of her to dedicate some time here to make us understand her method and how her no layout layout works with the exercises she has given us here, she has no obligation whatsoever to do so and yet she does. I am guessing she is preparing herself for that workshop of hers in Los Angeles and the chances of us participating in it in the future is none.

As for plugging her book, Sylvie cannot give out all the informations in her book, she still has to make a living, and even there she does not get much from her book sales, like 5-8% probably, so being here and plugging her book won't make her a zillionaire, especialy that the tarot and oracles enthousiasts are a very little number of people among the general population. There are far more people who enjoy sport than those who dabble with tarot or Petit LeNormand.

She is giving us here what she knows and works for her and she probably does not want people getting confused with other methods that work differently, for the moment.

Lee
18-11-2007, 23:39
Over the years on ATF, there's been a bit of a conflict over authors/artists and their participation on the forum. When an author/artist creates a work and comes to the forum to begin or to participate in discussions on it, there are usually some members who think it's great, and others who think it's marketing and resent it.

And everyone's reaction is different. For a few members, any presence at all by the author/artist is seen as marketing and resented. Then there are others whose tolerance is quite high and who will appreciate the author/artist's presence no matter how they post, as long as they're not going overboard with the self-promotion.

Personally, I believe how the author/artist posts has a lot to do with their reception. I think in general there's a lot more appreciation for someone who posts about their own work but who also posts about other topics as well and in general contributes to the community here, than there is for someone who has written/created something and comes to ATF specifically to discuss that work only, and never participates in discussion about other things, and who then leaves and we never hear from them again.

As an author myself, I'm at the point now where I actually prefer *not* to participate in discussions about my own work. Being a member of the community is, for me, more important at this point in my life than self-promotion. So I intend to post regarding my own work only if there's a specific piece of information that I feel will be helpful to someone, and other than that, I intend to let people discuss it freely, without my intereference.

I think it's fine for Sylvie to be here doing what she's doing. I can easily see how someone who has bought Sylvie's book will appreciate being able to interact with the author. It is a bit unusual for an author to come to ATF and conduct a "class" where she actually leads threads and is given the power to actually direct the discussion, but the moderators are obviously aware of it, and I assume Solandia is as well, and if they don't have a problem with it, then it's not for me to say that it's wrong.

By the same token, I think it's fine for individual members to decide they don't wish to participate in those threads. That's the situation I'm in. I bought Sylvie's book, I liked it, and I had expected to participate in the study threads, but I found that I felt uncomfortable with the threads. I can understand why it makes sense for Sylvie to direct the discussions in the way she does, but on this forum I'm accustomed to members having the freedom to post whatever they want as long as its on topic and within forum guidelines. I don't like feeling afraid to post something because the discussion leader may not like it.

Anyway, speaking of being on topic, let us not forget that the topic of this thread is the Treppner course! :D I'm enjoying the course. It's written in friendly, laid-back fashion that I respond well to. The course focuses on the method of laying out all 36 cards and spending a long time analyzing them, and that appeals to me.

Fortunately for us, nocoolname has posted the basic Treppner meanings in a thread, which Gavriela linked to earlier in this thread (thank you, Gavriela!). So if anyone wants to work with those meanings in a study thread, the resources are there (for free!). Personally, I've decided to work on my own for a while and see where that gets me.

-- Lee

stella01904
20-11-2007, 02:55
When we let one another know about a good thing, when we pool our information and brainstorm, the alchemy can be wonderful...something might be born that turns out to be greater than the sum of its parts. I appreciate choice, and the opportunity to share with fellow Aeclecticians independently of marketing issues, per se. It's one of the things that makes this forum special.
Much better than being someone's little paying disciple and being kept in eternal neophyte status! And much, MUCH better than memorizing other people's opinions and calling it "learning"!

Methinks Ms. Steinbach doth protest too much....:lol:

Lenormand is the common language of everyday life. How can the associations of a dog, a house or a tree be the exclusive knowledge of one person, to dispense on the condition that one worships at their feet? That's wack.

Gavriela
20-11-2007, 06:25
Then I'll throw the gender tit-bits into the pot, since it was you - I think? that was having trouble with connecting them to the cards. If you have a Lenormand with the playing card insets, it's easier to see.

When it's a court, usually when it means a person, it's a person the same gender as the court is. Once in a while, no, as Sylvie said, but usually you'll see some other cards indicating that (in the case of the Child, it's often a child of either gender, or a young woman). It may take a little practise, but do look at the playing card inset if you're trying to work out who a person is.

Sometimes the Whips can mean siblings - not often, but it has come up in my readings. As can the birds, though they can represent a couple as well, or sometimes - bullies or nosy people. Storks and Paths can sometimes represent two women in the same family or two women who are friends.

As a rule (there are exceptions, and you'll get to understand them in practise) if a person is being referred to by a NON court card, then red cards are men and boys, black cards are girls and women. USUALLY. Not always. The Moon is a red card, and often it refers to a woman if it's talking about a person. Again - often. When you're reading for somebody you'll get a better idea of the story, and be able to pick up more of it in the cards.

And something to take into consideration on the playing card side of things. Mme Lenormand didn't invent the cards that bear her name, but I think she was responsible for this innovation:

In normal playing card reading, almost all systems, Spades are the trouble suit. Not so in Lenormand. Clubs look like crosses, and in 18th century Catholic France...that's how she took them. That's why most of the Clubs cards in Lenormand deal with sacrifice, hardship, obligation, or commitment (hence the Ring being in Clubs).

People screw that one up a lot. But look at who the Courts are here - the Clouds is the Clubs King. Sometimes not a very nice man, or sometimes an older relative, often an ex-husband - someone with whom you have an obligation. And also, if the Clouds are near a person card, especially the dark side of them, they can indicate a smoker (trivia, but sometimes useful). In French Cartomancy, I take the right side of the Clouds to be dark, because in my really old Dondorf (same pattern deck) they are darker on the right - it's harder to tell in the FC.

The Clubs Queen is the Serpent, who also has a rather bad reputation from time to time. She's not always bad, but she's far more likely to be unpleasant than the Spades Queen, who's the Flowers. And the Lillies is the Spades King (notice how they're both associated with flowers), who is not usually unpleasant, either. Can be, depending on the surrounding cards, but that's true of any of them. But not by itself.

I think some people not taking into account that the playing card meanings don't involve 'elements', but instead involve 'qualities' in the Lenormand system is one of the reasons some readings get so schiz, so to speak - like somebody will see the Flowers and say 'oh, you'll have a really nice time but a vicious woman will do something to ruin it'. No, nothing there to indicate that - they're just being thrown by the Spades inset. The Lady card is the Ace of Spades - that doesn't mean 'bad'.

Anyway, most of that is from my personal experience. Your mileage may vary, of course, and likely it will. But it's some of what I've picked up over the years, and a starting point if you haven't got one.

Cheers -
Gav

Sophie
20-11-2007, 18:32
I have to say, Gavriela, that whenever you post about Lenormand, I want to hug you! You make it sound easy yet complex enough to keep me curious and studying for years!

I've been reading whatever I could find of Treppner's material free, and am now seriously considering doing their course - when I can manage the 50 euros, and just as important - the time commitment! But what I have found has impressed me, and Guido - whom I've had a few dealings with by PM - is helpful. I also go on Waldfee a fair amount, and have found it a valuable resource (thank god for google translation - my German is rusty). I have also been combing the net for French resources, which are scarcer than I had hoped, but still available. But on the whole, I prefer the German approach to the French one (despite being a francophone myself!). I would like to learn to do a full board, a timing board, etc. because these are useful for fortune-telling and just as important, to think about one's life development. It's not quick n' easy, but good things generally aren't.


I agree with Lee about authors/marketing/etc. There are ways and ways of talking about one's work. I like NoCoolName's best - having found it generous and modest. But I have Sylvie's book, and while I don't find it as revolutionary or different (or full of "secrets") as she claims, it's useful to have a solid Lenormand resource in English, and her book is exactly that.

On this site, the posts of MatPoint and Seaqueen are invaluable resources too, I want to add. I have read them several times (thank you MP and SQ!!). Seaqueen also has an excellent blog (which isn't only about Lenormand, but includes a lot of Lenormand material).


At the end of the day, to echo others, we grow with Lenormand by accessing a number of different sources, gleaning as much as we can from them, and adding our own views, based on our experience of the cards when confronted with reality. As you said once in another thread, Gavriela, Lenormand, especially in combos, is incredibly layered!

stella01904
21-11-2007, 01:55
Then I'll throw the gender tit-bits into the pot, since it was you - I think? that was having trouble with connecting them to the cards. If you have a Lenormand with the playing card insets, it's easier to see.
I have no problem seeing that the Kings are male. I asked what was male about Lily symbology. You said it was a reference to the medallion. Someone else (not you!) twisted that to make it look like I was a beginner and "needed" to learn a certain person's method - for $$, of course. Spot the con? BTW, I have been reading Lenormand for some time and I admin at another oracle forum. And I'm too old to fall for that "nobody knows anything but me so send money" line, lol. :smoker:

And something to take into consideration on the playing card side of things. Mme Lenormand didn't invent the cards that bear her name, but I think she was responsible for this innovation:

In normal playing card reading, almost all systems, Spades are the trouble suit. Not so in Lenormand. Clubs look like crosses, and in 18th century Catholic France...that's how she took them. That's why most of the Clubs cards in Lenormand deal with sacrifice, hardship, obligation, or commitment (hence the Ring being in Clubs). Yep, I've noticed the "trouble cards" bearing Club medallions, for the most part. I wouldn't be too quick to ascribe this to Mlle. Lenormand, either. No one can even prove where the deck came from - it appeared some time after her death, as did the Grand Jeu. Most 19th century oracle decks bear either the "Lenormand" or "Gypsy" moniker, lol.

The Clubs Queen is the Serpent, who also has a rather bad reputation from time to time. She's not always bad, but she's far more likely to be unpleasant than the Spades Queen, who's the Flowers. And the Lillies is the Spades King (notice how they're both associated with flowers), who is not usually unpleasant, either. Can be, depending on the surrounding cards, but that's true of any of them. But not by itself.
Again, I don't think of the Snake as being the Queen of Clubs. I think it is a mistake to view the deck as pictorial keys to some kaput cartomantic method that nobody uses anymore. I can't prove that it has never BEEN this, but it seems redundant to read the same meaning twice on each card. You get a much better reading by free-associating the pictures and reading the medallions according to more commonly accepted cartomantic methods.

As far as Bouquet/QS, you have cut flowers and a woman who is commonly associated with widowhood or sadness of some kind. So these do seem to to harmonise, in a "once-removed" kind of way. But I don't try to match the cards to the medallions.

stella01904
21-11-2007, 02:54
BTW, I've started a thread for free Lenormand resources here:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=88633
:smoker:

But for the most part, while I think it should be practiced with often, it's a mistake to make a major study out of it the way one might do with TdM. The point is for the mind to remain flexible!

What helps me most is reading different sytems - Sibilla, Tarot, Mexican bingo cards! These all help. Everything is an oracle. :) You could walk around your home shooting pictures of random objects, shuffle the photos and have an oracle. "Bed" + "Medicine Cabinet" would point to illness, but "Bed" + "Lingeree Drawer" has another inflection entirely, lol!

Sophie
21-11-2007, 03:51
"Bed" + "Medicine Cabinet" would point to illness, but "Bed" + "Lingeree Drawer" has another inflection entirely, lol!ROFL! Love it :D

Sheri
21-11-2007, 09:50
The topic of this thread is the Treppner Course and the study of it - not for commentary on others' methods nor the introduction of anyone's particular method. Posts not discussing the Treppner method will be moved/removed shortly. Please keep posts on topic or they will be removed.

There are many people here that have their own methods for reading Lenormand decks. That is fantastic, but please start separate threads for discussions of those methods so that they can be easily found in future searches.

Blessings,

Oracles forum moderating team

Sophie
22-11-2007, 00:13
I, for one, am excited to see different methods of reading Lenormand coming out. In my opinion, being exposed to different methodologies in reading Lenormand is no different than a new Tarot reader being exposed to different methodologies reading Tarot. I think it is exciting when an author or deck creator stops in and offers members insight and guidance into their methods or what they produced because members here showed interest in it.

This forum is exclusive to no one person's method. ALL methods of reading ALL cards are welcome here for our benefit, so we can pick and choose and tweak what works best for us. After all, the power of the tools comes from us. :DTotally agree with what you wrote here, Valeria :) - the more the merrier.

Mmmmmm, Lenormand smorgy is open :DCool. I'm hungry!

faunabay
22-11-2007, 01:54
The more I read and use the treppner course the more I like it.
Fudugazi, I don't think you'd be disappointed at all. And it's not 50 euros either. There is a forumless version that's only 24.?? euros. Or you can get the course with forum access for about 74 euros.

Astraea
22-11-2007, 02:45
Hi Faunabay. Just a bit of clarification -- the course-plus-forum cost is 49 Euros and change (which does work out to about $74 dollars US). The course alone, without forum access, is a little over 24 Euros. For non-German speakers, the course alone is a good choice (though there is a small section of the forum for English speakers, it is not densely populated).

Sheri
22-11-2007, 09:11
Totally agree with what you wrote here, Valeria :) - the more the merrier.

Cool. I'm hungry!

Thanks, Fudugazi :D

I just ordered the Treppner Course using Lee's instructions. Very easy!

It must be pretty substantial - the Table of Contents is lengthy and detailed :bugeyed:

Now, to wait impatiently for the documents :D

:love: valeria

Sheri
22-11-2007, 10:14
W:bugeyed:W!

That was fast - I just received the course from Iris :D I just ordered it about an hour ago!

She also told me that they are working on an English speaking website, too!


:love: valeria

faunabay
22-11-2007, 11:13
I got mine extremely quickly too. I think I got it within a half hour from payment!! Iris is very speedy! I loved it!! Next to waiting!!

And yes, it is quite lengthy. And very informative too. I like it alot and am finding it exactly what I need to learn with!! It's great!

Oh, thanks for clearing up my mistake Astraea. You are exactly right. It wasn't 74 euro, but dollars. :*

olivia
22-11-2007, 23:58
I got mine too!, and yes, Iris is very speedy and friendly! I'm looking forward for starting, I love it.

Soothsayer
13-11-2008, 05:24
Does the Treppner course require a specific Lenormand deck? I have the Mystical Lenormand deck and was wondering if this is suitable.

Gavriela
13-11-2008, 06:24
No, but it's illustrated with the Blue Owl, and it may help you to have either that or another deck that has the playing card insets. But it doesn't make a great deal of difference. Lenormand isn't like tarot; in Lenormand there's simply a card image (slightly different art styles from deck to deck, but nothing too shocking), but the Ring is always the Ring, the Clouds always the Clouds, the Moon always the Moon, and they're always the same number card within Lenormand, as well as same playing card suit and rank, regardless of the deck you use.

In other words, if you can learn to read one Lenormand, you should be able to read any of them. I dislike the Mystical, but a lot of people like it, and there's no reason not to use it if it suits you.

Soothsayer
13-11-2008, 06:37
Thank you for the helpful reply. Incidentally, what is it you dislike about the Mystical Lenormand?

Soothsayer
13-11-2008, 23:06
Well, I ordered the course last night and received it within 90 minutes of clicking on "pay now". Excellent service from Iris!

You get a total of seven PDF files, which includes one file containing well over a thousand combination meanings. The seven files come to 140 pages in total (2.57MB in size). I've only a had quick scan through it so far, but it looks very comprehensive indeed. The translation is not perfect, but more than adequate and I can't wait to get started.

Nina*
13-11-2008, 23:07
It's a lovely course and in my opinion so much better than many books out there.

I hope you'll have fun with it. :)

Gavriela
15-11-2008, 08:00
Thank you for the helpful reply. Incidentally, what is it you dislike about the Mystical Lenormand?

I dislike it because it's over-illustrated. Again, it's a personal thing, but look at the two attached pix - both taken from modern decks, and maybe you'll understand.

Both cards are the Ring, which one is easier to see?

AJ
15-11-2008, 09:46
If anyone is finished with their Treppner materials I'd like to purchase it/them.
I no long use PayPal, but can do a trade (I have a list in that forum) or can do Amazon credit.

I'm using a Lenormand for the first time this week and enjoying it very much.

Thank you for the comparative Ring card scans Gavriela.

Soothsayer
15-11-2008, 20:14
Gavriela, yes, you are right about the Mystical being "over-illustrated"; my initial thoughts on seeing the deck were the same. However, the cards have grown on me and I now like them very much. The illustrations have a certain fairy tale quality about them, which appeals to me. But yes, it is a personal thing and very subjective. Each to their own.

Anyway, back on topic; I am really enjoying the Treppner course and I'm glad I decided to take the plunge and order it. I hope things continue to go as well as they are right now.

Gavriela
16-11-2008, 11:38
It's a great course, probably the best one in English today. There are some problems with the Scythe combos in the list in the last PDF (a few of them got put down as the same backwards and forwards), but you can find a list in English over at my blog under - 'Scythe Combos' - if you want one. Just hit the website link under this message to get there.

It's a minor quibble, and it may be corrected by now. Even if it hasn't been, it won't wreck the course for you, and if you follow the course, you will learn to read cards, instead of just memorising rote meanings - that's where it really shines compared to most of what I've seen in the English-speaking market.

Soothsayer
16-11-2008, 23:11
I didn't know that was your website. It's been on my favourites list for a while. :) I think the problem with the Scythe combinations has been fixed; I noticed some of the other combos have the same meaning regardless of the order of the two cards.

Lorielle
01-12-2008, 07:41
I've been toying with the idea of buying the Treppner course or not. I'd like to, and it certainly sounds like it's worth it! I am having problems staying away from ordering more Lenormand cards at the moment. :)

Lorielle
07-12-2008, 08:17
I just took the plunge and bought the course. Now I'm going to sit down and read through it to see what I've got. :)

jrr01
21-05-2009, 02:39
Does anyone know where I can buy Treppner's Lenormand Course? I myself hated Sylvie's way of teaching. "Buy the book first and then i'll teach you"

P.S. Is there an english version of Treppner's Lenormand Course?


Thanks guys.

faunabay
21-05-2009, 03:24
Does anyone know where I can buy Treppner's Lenormand Course? I myself hated Sylvie's way of teaching. "Buy the book first and then i'll teach you"

P.S. Is there an english version of Treppner's Lenormand Course?


Thanks guys.
Oh yes, there's an english version you can buy. Let me go see if I can find the link to buy it for you.

And I'm with you on Sylvie's way of teaching. :P

edited:
Well duh!!! Just go to the first page of this thread. LOL There's links for the course. Click on the link Astraea gives and then on the UK flag on top. It will change the page to english. :P

colorwalk
22-05-2009, 21:00
P.S. Is there an english version of Treppner's Lenormand Course?
You'll have to email them or specify in your payment that you want the English version though (even when paying through their English language page).

Iris will email you anyway to ask you which version you need if you did not specify it ahead of time, but remember to do so if you want to save the extra waiting time from the correspondence, etc. She gets back to you pretty fast, but because I didn't know to specify ahead of time... I ended up getting the files several days later due to wait times between emails (time difference), etc. Not a long time in the wider scope of things, but still... :D

thorhammer
22-05-2009, 22:31
I myself hated Sylvie's way of teaching. "Buy the book first and then i'll teach you"
I'll third that motion. Not the friendliest of gurus, and one of the few members of AT who seem to be members only for gain. They're the ones I steer clear of. There's enough advertising* and stuff out there without it invading the purple pages.

\m/ Kat

* Note: I make a distinction between "advertising" and "enabling" . . . :D

emmsma
23-05-2009, 00:02
Glad this thread was revived. Got the other book and found I didn't like it, so haven't done that course here.

Was rather disappointed.

SolSionnach
23-05-2009, 02:44
I'll third that motion. Not the friendliest of gurus, and one of the few members of AT who seem to be members only for gain. They're the ones I steer clear of. There's enough advertising* and stuff out there without it invading the purple pages.

\m/ Kat

* Note: I make a distinction between "advertising" and "enabling" . . . :DPersonally, I completely understand Sylvie's behavior.
She put an amazing amount of information in the book - why should she want to re-type it every time someone has a question? She's already put it all out there...

Miss Divine
23-05-2009, 03:28
Personally, I completely understand Sylvie's behavior.
She put an amazing amount of information in the book - why should she want to re-type it every time someone has a question? She's already put it all out there...

I agree. In my experience she has always been very helpful and kind.

TarotBoy
23-05-2009, 04:41
Miss Divine & sravana, Think of those who buy the book and don't want to go online or those who buy the book and never heard of this Tarot Forum page?

colorwalk
23-05-2009, 04:48
Not here to comment on Sylvie's behaviors, motives, and attitude on this board. Instead, I just wanted to add my bit on my comparison between Sylvie's book and the Treppner course. :)

I know it's been suggested over and again that a beginner should start and stick to one system before branching out so as to prevent confusion, etc. I do think that advice has a lot of merit and I also agree with it (to a certain extent), but I thought I'd share a little from the POV of someone who looked into both simultaneously. (By the way, I'm not touching upon her study group here... just purely her book and the Treppner course)

My overall opinion is that they both actually complemented each other for me. Here's a couple of points as to why that's the case (again, for me):

1. Sylvie's book, while great for breaking in a beginner onto the basics of reading with the Lenormand, lacks quite a bit of information in several areas. I see her book more as an elaborate decent LWB- it gives a panoramic view of the Lenormand, card meanings, and jumps right into her No-Layout spread. You get the basic gist of things but you get the feeling A LOT has been left out- some she even admits to and says there's too much info involved to explain in her book.

In short, her book is great for pointing you in the general direction and you'll be able to experiment with readings right away. I had a lot of fun starting out... but once you really get into it, you might soon notice that her explanations in the book itself is not enough to get you beyond the basics.

Here's where Treppner's course comes in. The course actually goes into a lot of detail and covers a whole bunch of stuff that Sylvie's book was missing. Reading the course, I felt like it filled in a lot of holes. Some useful info I especially liked that Sylvie never covered in any detail was the use of the Grand Tableau (36 card spread), reading and developing combinations, how the order of the cards affect a reading, the "people" cards, which cards could potentially change or affect which ones, etc. There's a whole lot more like various methods of interpreting and all that too.

2. For the most part, Treppner's card meanings and Sylvie's card meanings are the same. There are a few differences... and contrary to the general opinion that this will confuse a beginner, I actually like that I was able to study the differences because it helped me take a step back and decide for myself which one clicks for ME.

For example, Sylvie's use of the Fox card to depict work/career never meshed well with me right from the beginning. I understand her reasons behind it, but try as I might to see it in relation to work, I will only ever see it as an odd job here or there at most but not an actual work/career card. When I read that Treppner uses Anchor instead of Fox for work, it immediately made sense to me and I'm glad I had an alternative to work with. Likewise, I think both systems actually gave me a lot of food for thought in terms of what a card can mean... and that has been greatly beneficial for me.

Summary: I think Sylvie's book was great for me in terms of introducing me to the Lenormand and getting me started right away. It's beginner friendly, but I say this hesitantly because I think it might not be as easy to understand for someone who has little experience in reading cards in general. I think it was easy for me to jump in and look over a lot of things she missed because I already read a fair variety of card systems (Tarot, playing cards, Gypsy cards, Kippers, other oracle cards) and some of the "practices" have a common ground. I imagine it would confuse newbie card readers a lot more though.

Treppner's on the other hand covers a lot of basic stuff that a newbie could benefit from... but it also quite quickly throws you in the deep end, so you might become overwhelmed by the wealth of info. But you return to it often as you improve and I think you get a lot out of it in the long run. So really, they both worked well complementing each other for me rather than against.

I enjoy both systems' way of reading and I use both (among others). Sylvie's system, I've found, to be the simplest so you catch on fast, especially after the little missing holes become clear to you. Most important of all, they both work for me and in combining the two, I think I've come out with a better understanding of the Lenormand than I would've if I had been missing one or the other.

Hope this (lengthy) post was helpful to someone. :)

colorwalk
23-05-2009, 05:08
Miss Divine & sravana, Think of those who buy the book and don't want to go online or those who buy the book and never heard of this Tarot Forum page?
Ah, you touched upon something that I didn't mention in my long "review and comparison" above.

Yes, I agree (to a certain degree). I had a lot of mixed feelings about the book's study group here... most of them probably a direct result of the fact that I came into it much later than everyone else did. So what that means is I don't really get to benefit from Sylvie's explanations other than wading through everyone's posts. Don't get me wrong, those case studies and posts were without a doubt helpful in their own way as I can learn from others' mistakes, trials, success, and such.

At first, I thought it would be fine if I could still post in the case studies and ask my questions... but it's been made clear that she doesn't want that because they're more for archival purposes now. Likewise, I didn't feel at ease in asking questions either because it's been said over and over that the case studies covered everything. I have a lot of questions that are similar to some stuff that was covered but not really... but I'm afraid to ask for the fear of being reprimanded that I didn't pay attention or read carefully what was in the case studies. Recently, she has also decided that she would no longer answer specific questions at all... just general ones, which then kinda defeated the whole usefulness for me because it was the specifics she didn't cover in her book that I was seeking.

Again, don't get me wrong. I'm not criticizing her choices nor am I complaining. I understand why she has reached this point. I'm merely speaking from the point of view of someone who recently (and eagerly) purchased her book even though tons of people said it lacked detailed info... solely because others who raved about it also assured me that by participating in the study group, I could fill in those holes and that Sylvie was available to answer questions about stuff her book didn't cover. So in all honesty, I can't help but feel a bit jibbed in that aspect because obviously, I didn't feel like I got that or will be able to get that.

So TarotBoy, yea, it's a bit unfair and all... but oh well. If I look at it another way, she has no obligation to be around and answer my questions anyway. It's not like she promised that the purchase of her book will get me her assistance, and most authors don't even do that. Some may feel that it's her "duty" to do so because her book lacked those information, but you know, it's really her right. I'll chalk it up as a simple unfortunate thing that I wasn't here when I could've benefited from it.... hence my reasons for comparing the Treppner course and her book AS IS, without the glowing compliments about her study group, because, well... I wasn't a part of it.

Phoenix Rising
23-05-2009, 09:30
Hi Tarotboy and Colorwalk,

I was one of the fortunate ones that studied in the virtual workshop, and I had also hosted Sylvies world premiere lenormand workshop in New Zealand.

I just want to point out a few things, eventhough I haven't thoroughly or looked at the Treppner course. Sylvie was the first inter-active author to give her time and expertise freely as far as the lenormand, without any cost to us. She had written this book and was one of the first or maybe the first english manual for a growing english speaking community. Then all of a sudden, traditionalist found her approach as a threat to the lenormand world, and as you may have read, nasty and pipped readers coming out of the wood work to deframe and discredit her. What does that say? Her book is based on her experience of over 19000 clients, so this does qualify her as being a leading expert.

Alot of questions have been answered and there are examples, so to keep going over and over the same ones can be repetitive and tiring. The Virtual workshop was an extension of the book, so those questions that weren't explained in detail in the book were used in the workshop. It was unfortunate that the workshop had to end because people were starting to sabotage or bully Sylvie. What would you do? She had done this freely, and we are still fortunate that she still answers questions.

I also wanted to touch on why she used Fox for work, and also the understanding that I have of that card. A fox is an animal who does things out of habit for it's survival, it's a means to live, just like a job is. People are not always going to stay at the same job for the rest of their lives, just as anchor might suggest. A fox moves, sometimes cunningly. Now explain to me how you see anchor as best representing a job or work?

At the end of the day, the proof is in the pudding. Experience can only prove what is best. Traditional or modern. Sylvie was bought up on the traditional method, she comes from a family of traditional expert readers, but time and experience showed the difference and cards like, fox, whip, fish and bear were showing different meanings time and time again. It wasn't something she decided to willy nilly change. The lenormand showed her.

I had the pleasure and personal experience to meet Sylvie, so I know the real person, not how she may appear to come across on the net, she is down to earth with a great sense of humor, has a passion for her work and is genuinely concerned with humankind, that is why she has been of service for all these years. So before anyone judges her, I suggest they also gain experience and when they've had a few thousand clients under their belt, then maybe they will be in a better position to judge her method and book.

It would be nice to see the author founder of Treppner come on here and teach a virtual workshop and give us their expertise.

There are a few of us on here, who maybe able to help you if you post your readings on here, and answer any questions.

Many blessings

Phoenix

LisaW
23-05-2009, 12:55
Very well written Phoenix - and I totally agree with you!
I never had the pleasure of meeting with Sylvie like you did, but she has always been helpful and kind when I had a question.

I agree with what another writer wrote too, I don't think that the courses have to be exclusive. It helps to start with just one, to get a baseline of understanding (in my opinion) but then branching out and discovering other people's thoughts will help expand your skills.

My foundation is from Sylvie :) and now with lots of practice, the cards are letting me know other interpretations. Like learning to play the piano, or anything else, there aren't shortcuts in learning the new language....

I'm grateful for all information, and then the freedom to pick and choose. It's unrealistic to think that only Sylvie has the answers, or on the flip side that Treppner has all the answers- they're not the only two who read lenormand!

Be open, and explore with curiosity! Intuition is the final teacher/guide -

best wishes,

LisaW (Spiritsong)

faunabay
23-05-2009, 13:18
I just want to say a bit about my experience with the Treppner and Sylvie's courses.

I really liked Sylvie's book. It was a good place to start. I still have mine and will keep it.

That said though I was around when she very first started her workshop here on AT. I was all excited. Thought it would be a great way to learn lenormand. But there were quite a few reprimands to quite a few people if we deviated from exactly what was in her book. There wasn't much open discussion - just "listen to the teacher" and "repeat what you find in my book".

I did, and still do, realize this is only a written way to correspond. So I assumed then, and again still do, that Sylvie is probably very nice in person and would come across very differently if you were talking to her in person. But her way of communicating here was not something I was comfortable with so I stopped being involved in the workshop very quickly.

One of the many things I liked about the Treppner course was how Iris stresses how her meanings are just jumping off points. That each person should take them as a suggestion but then do whatever makes most sense to you. I felt much more comfortable learning from the Treppner course because I didn't feel like I was doing something wrong if I saw something different in the cards than what Iris saw.

So all in all I personally learned more from the Treppner course because it was laid out in a way that I was more comfortable with. But that's just me. I don't take anything away from Sylvie's book or workshop here, because there are many people that learn better that way. (shrug)

OK, I'm done. :laugh: There's my 2 cents worth. LOL

Phoenix Rising
23-05-2009, 13:53
Hi Faunabay,

I was one of the students that got a reprimand when needed, and I never took it personally. We were told right from the start that the workshop was for the extension of the book, and it was learning the "no layout" spread. Her intention was for us to learn it so better to understand, perfect and interpret that layout.

Like all things, when the student is ready the master will appear. And masters can be strict disciplinarians, they don't moddle coddle their students. I can understand people's feelings may get hurt and bruised, but that was one thing I and others were willing to take as this type of opportunity to learn from a teacher for free, only expense being the book, which is quite affordable in my eyes.

Besides that, it's good to be in this community where we are all learning and developing our skills.

Many blessings'

Phoenix

faunabay
23-05-2009, 14:02
I think that's wonderful Phoenix!! I'm so glad you found the way that works for you. :)

I haven't done much with my lenormand decks lately. All this talk on the thread here has made me want to pull them out again. LOL

Sheri
23-05-2009, 15:49
I'll third that motion. Not the friendliest of gurus, and one of the few members of AT who seem to be members only for gain. They're the ones I steer clear of. There's enough advertising* and stuff out there without it invading the purple pages.

\m/ Kat

* Note: I make a distinction between "advertising" and "enabling" . . . :D


I think that these comments are unfair. Participation in a study group on a deck can't happen without owning the cards can it? Sylvie did not earn a thing from her participation in the study group here. Many publishers have constraints on how much of a work can be reproduced... so in order to get the whole technique the book was required.

I think it would be very difficult to get anyone with a new or different method of reading to come here and offer to teach... people will be accusatory when they need to buy a book or materials and then it seems that it is OK to declare open season on that person when they trying to teach the method... before the method is even completely taught, rendering any study of the method moot.

:love: Sheri

colorwalk
23-05-2009, 22:25
Hi Phoenix Rising (and whoever else that may think I was criticizing Sylvie's system),

Thank you for your insights, but I think you have misunderstood the meaning of my posts, as well as its purpose. You certainly do not need to defend Sylvie's system, expertise, or character to me. I didn't say anything at all about her character in my posts, because in all honesty, I don't know her nor have I interacted with her to any extent. Besides, for the purpose of my post, her character was irrelevant.

My reasons in doing a comparison was to give as much of an objective point of view as possible in regards to my experience with studying and learning the Lenormand through both systems simultaneously in hopes that it may benefit others who are deciding between systems. I'll tell you now that when I was searching for information on this board regarding how best to start out using the Lenormand, it was HARD to find an unbiased constructive review or comparison when it comes to Sylvie's vs whatever other system. It's either harsh bashing or defensive praises championing systems and characters.

I think LisaW said it best:

I'm grateful for all information, and then the freedom to pick and choose. It's unrealistic to think that only Sylvie has the answers, or on the flip side that Treppner has all the answers- they're not the only two who read lenormand!

That is precisely my feeling. If you go back and read my review/comparison post again, you will see that I thought both systems complemented each other well for me. And I wanted to share that sentiment with others who may be having trouble seeking a more detailed comparison between the two rather than the usual "I dislike her, she's horrible" vs "she has decades of experience and is so kind to share it with us" sort of deal... which in all honesty, has nothing to do with how useful or good the Treppner course and Sylvie's book was. I wanted to talk about the material itself, and like most reviews, there would be pros and cons. Those were simply my experiences.

There is certainly no need to validate Sylvie's expertise or system to me by listing out her extensive experience or accomplishments. I'm not doubting her system; in fact, I use it and enjoy it all the time as mentioned in my comparison. I like her system because a lot of it made sense to me, and it worked. It isn't (and won't ever be) because she has tons of thousands of experience with clients or comes from generations of Lenormand readers. Her system has proven to work for me, and that's enough in my opinion.

I also wanted to touch on why she used Fox for work, and also the understanding that I have of that card. A fox is an animal who does things out of habit for it's survival, it's a means to live, just like a job is. People are not always going to stay at the same job for the rest of their lives, just as anchor might suggest. A fox moves, sometimes cunningly. Now explain to me how you see anchor as best representing a job or work?
Again, I think you may have misunderstood my point completely. I'm not here to argue about a system and say which card should be which. In my opinion, that's a personal thing and a reader should choose what feels right to them. I used the Fox and Anchor to illustrate that point and how it was beneficial to me that I had two systems to work with because it allows alternatives, variety, and most of all... it made me think about which one made sense to me personally.

I was in no way inferring that Sylvie's system is inferior because I didn't see the Fox as a work/career card. Should I have gone on to point out that I agreed with Sylvie and saw Whips as a sexuality card more than the traditional Lily? Would that appease Sylvie fans? But you see, superiority in card meanings wasn't my point. In fact, I even added that I understood Sylvie's reasoning behind the Fox being a work/career card... just that it wasn't for me personally.

For all my intents and purposes, what each card actually means aren't even relevant... but to address your question about why I see Anchor as the work card- it is mostly because I see a career as the thing that gives stability to ones life. As I mentioned in my initial post, I can see Fox to represent work sometimes... but maybe only as an odd job here or there. But when it comes to a career or a stable job, Anchor is it for me. Another large reason I didn't want to assign the Fox to work is because I see it mainly as a deception, lies, or cunning creativity. I'd like to reserve that card for that and save myself the confusion of wondering if Fox was talking about my job or someone deceiving me. There are more reasons... but again, that is all personal and it's something I've come to decide for myself after studying the differences in systems (and I'm glad for that).

-----
In all honesty, I had wondered to myself if I was making a mistake by talking about my experience with Sylvie's method and Treppner's course... and yea, I really should've kept my mouth shut because I'm beginning to think that anything said about the Lenormand teachings (especially those pertaining to Sylvie's method) is just going to end up being misconstrued. There's a wide chasm between her dedicated fans and those who dislike her for whatever reason. Those who like her are only going to think that any little "unfavorable" thing said about her book is an attack on Sylvie's character and expertise, while those who dislike her are only going to jump on those aspects and say "Yea her book sucks!"

I had never made a comment anywhere on this site pertaining to either and have tried not to let either side influence me while searching for information to learn on. I initially thought that maybe my post could shed some light for those who might want to know what it was about each system (and teaching material) that worked for someone else, hopefully backed up with specific reasons, which was what I tried to do.

I largely ignored the mention of the study group, because as I have also said, I wasn't a part of it. So it was a pure comparison between her book and the Treppner course... which now that I think about it, is probably an accurate way of comparing, seeing as how the Treppners are not here leading a study group. In that way, it's solely seeing how each body of written work stands as itself.

That said, I have said this before to Sylvie on another thread and I'll say it again now. I think it's wonderful that she had taken the time to lead the study group here, and obviously those who attended have benefited from it greatly. I've also mentioned that I understand her reasons for stopping. In fact, I said I would chalk the whole "study group no longer active" thing as it being unfortunate for ME that I missed it. I'm not blaming her for it.

In short, I was merely sharing my own learning experience for her book and for Treppner's course, as well as my experience with not being able to participate in the study group. I LIKE Sylvie's system. I LIKE the Treppner Course. BOTH had their own merits, differences, and shortcomings in the delivery, which is normal. I took whatever works for me from BOTH. That is all.

Disclaimer: There were no hidden agendas, backstabbing motives, or mysterious criticisms/praises involved in my comparison review and subsequent posts.

Phoenix Rising
24-05-2009, 09:58
hello Colorwalk,

Thank you for clarifying, it is the unfortunate thing that sometimes when reading posts it comes across differently to what the writer actually means, so misunderstandings are always going to occur on forums like this.

I have seen and read alot of harsh criticisms and judgements against Sylvie and her book, so another comparison between the Treppner and her method seemed like just another blow. People write about her and the book as if she would never read it, as if she doesn't exist on here, so I will always defend and be an advocate.

I cannot judge on the treppner course as I have never read it, although I am aware of the differences in just a few of the card meanings, if I remember rightly there are maybe 6 card meaning differences, so just a slight variation to the traditional way. I have also seen how people use both card meanings in their readings, and most of the time, they make no sense, perhaps the mind has become confused so it shows a confused reading. Or else what they might do is, interpret one reading using the tradtional meanings, and then using the Sylvie way, and basically see which one seems more accurate.

I had a couple of times participated on a blog in which the writer very experienced had learnt the traditional way, and we had both interpreted the spread using our learned method. It was very interesting the result, similliar in most cases our readings, and prediction was later updated. The good thing with this writer, she was very open to seeing both ways, and we had some good correspondences...certainly no judgements.

Sometimes a small problem is when people make their own personal opinion on books or other, is that other people take their comments literally and will never seek out to find out for themselves. One bad apple can ruin the apple cart, type scenario. A not so glowing review can hinder and not help at all. just like a movie.....my opinion on movies might be different to someone elses.

I know the Grand tableau was only mentioned briefly in the book, so when I did the workshop we did go through the Grand Tableau, and it was quite comprehensive, very long, and I must say you would have to have a hands on experience with the spread to understand it. There were 3 or 4 other processes to it....Sylvies grand aunt would take 2 hours to read it. So to try and explain it in the book, could be quite confusing to the reader!

Then the health section, that could not be elaborated because people in America like to sue people for diagnosing or for saying they know a cure for something, that was a matter of legalities...so as much as some people say they think it wasn't very deep and informative, there are very good reasons for not including it.

I may have looked at the Treppner course if there wasn't any other English material on it. Actually I don't know if I would of even looked at lenormand at all if it wasn't for the virtual workshop. Did you know lenormand is not known to the New Zealand public at all! Lenormand decks and books cannot be found in New Zealand book stores, even specialised New age bookstores.

Anyway, I think my long winded post has bored everyone long enough.

Many blessings to you all.

Phoenix

colorwalk
25-05-2009, 11:21
Hi Phoenix,

Thank you for understanding. Forgive me, I know I have a tendency to be wordy and will try to keep this shorter. I do understand and can relate to your reasons for why my post felt like yet another blow. I can assure you that I'm not one to jump and judge for no other reason than some misguided personal grudge. It's unfortunate that so many problems like these seems to have crept up in response to Sylvie's work.

I have no doubts that Sylvie's live workshop was great, and yes, I have heard that she covers the Grand Tableau there. However, I'm sure you realize that being able to attend her workshop is a rare opportunity. My comparison opinion wasn't based on her knowledge and what else you can learn from her in person... it was a pure look at two pieces of written work on the Lenormand. What an author ultimately decides to put in their book is their own decision and right. I only wanted to state the facts as in what information is available or missing in each- which, btw, doesn't necessarily make one or the other bad. Not every book will be able to cover everything or else we'd only need one book on any given subject!

Yes, Sylvie can see the review as she is a member of this board. And yes, some people can take one opinion on a book and never seek out other opinions. But neither should, in my personal opinion, be a reason at all as to why an opinion should not be posted. This board is filled with opinions on all sorts of matters, decks, books, and systems. Plenty of other authors, deck creators, and publishers come here and can see these compliments/criticisms. We would all be suffocated and unable to speak if we have to take all their feelings into consideration. That said, I'm of course not a believer of blatant accusations and unreasonable or ungrounded criticisms. I sure hope my post didn't come out sounding like one of those.

It is also my personal belief that more information is better. As a new person wanting more information on what the Treppner course and Sylvie's book has to offer, I would certainly wish to hear more thoughts on this. Part of the reason I wrote something at all was because I was frustrated by most of the opinions on this board being either something like, "her book is horrible, she's a snob, go for Treppner" and "her system is great, she's so kind, she has a lot of experience"... to be honest, neither is all that helpful. I'm not saying my opinion was especially comprehensive (I was trying not to ramble as I'm sure you all know I do by now), but I at least hope it's more useful than the aforementioned comments.

By the way, I definitely don't expect Sylvie to cover health topics to any great extent. I know very well the issues that something like that would entail!

And less I keep rambling, this brings my post to an end and it should be the last I'm going to say about all this. I apologize to all others who may be coming into this thread seeking for more information on the Treppner course and ended up having to put up with the thread getting hijacked!

SolSionnach
25-05-2009, 11:36
Yes, can more people chime in on their responses to the Treppner course??

colorwalk
25-05-2009, 12:05
Yes, can more people chime in on their responses to the Treppner course??
In an attempt to keep to the topic about the Treppner course only, here's a bit more information on it for anyone looking into purchasing the course:

The course comes in PDF format emailed to you and has 7 parts total:

- 1 file on all the card combination meanings
- 1 file on single card meanings (which is broken down into keywords, general description, love, career, characteristics/qualities, medicine, timing guide, and astrological correspondence)
- 5 files covering intro, reading basics, combo reading, various ways to interpret, a whole lot on the grand tableau and the different ways to interpret that spread, and a bunch of reading examples as well (also illustrated with card and spread pictures)

Miscellaneous notes on the course:

- The complete combinations list, unfortunately, seems to yield very little difference regardless which card comes first in a combo. It appears to have been cross-pasted in a lot of cases. I was surprised to see that since the course went into a lot of detail talking about the importance of card order and how it can change the meaning of an interpretation. Someone on another board had mentioned that it could be a typo, so I don't know.

- "medicine" in the card meanings isn't the actual medicine/drug. From what I can see, it seems to be guidance or interpretation related to the body. Sometimes it's a straightforward health interpretation, sometimes just body parts/areas, and other times it's an advice that's almost for your spiritual or mental well-being.

Overall, a lot of info to absorb. I'm not sure I'm even on the tip of the iceberg that is the grand tableau. :p

sammyofnyc
06-07-2009, 13:55
I have a question regarding timing with the Lenormand cards. I have the Mlle. Lenormand Cartomancy Deck by Piatnik and I also have the Sylvie Steinbach book which does cover timing issues but I am not completed convinced by her method for timing events so I tried other websites including this one that talks about timing with Lenormand and they are sooooo contradictory to each other. It makes your head spin ala Linda Blair. I am pretty good with the meaning of the cards and the spreads but I SUCK when it comes to predicting time frames or timing events.

There are a few websites one in particular a German website that have courses for learning the Lenormand cards but I don't have the money to take those courses and I don't know German. Besides like I stated I know about the cards and the meaning. All I need to learn is timing events!!

One question that has always bothered me in terms of timing is when a reading is done and cards are read in relation to other cards how do you know which card to select to represent the time frame when something is supposed to happen?

Let's us say for example you do a reading and the subject is money and let's say you get 4 cards that deal with money/financial issues during the reading, which of those cards do you select to represent the time frame to make your decision. Based on the book written by Steinbach, most cards represent a different time frame, so how do you know which one card to select that would answer the question about when something is supposed to happen?

If the Lenormand cards are accurate (and I believe they are) then the time frame has to be SPECIFIC also. I would feel comfortable-not to mention my ego would feel good--if I would be able to pinpoint a time frame accurately and be consistently correct almost all the time. Boy that would be great! Telling someone that an event will take place between now and 5 years from now is not my idea of a good fortune teller. I mean really, anyone without access to any oracle/divination system can say something will happen to you between now and 5 years from now and most likely it will (assuming you are still able to witness the event). I mean it defeats the purpose of predicting altogether since most people want to know not just what is going to happen but WHEN!

There has to be a SIMPLE & ACCURATE (with little time variance) that can give reliable time frame prediction. Does anyone have any suggestions???

I appreciate any help.

Sam

lord_ewin
08-08-2010, 03:36
Wow, I hadn't seen this thread before. There are so many threads on here that things get burried deep and don't surface for quite some time.

When I initially started reading Lenormand 10 years ago, I had no teacher, did not know about Steinbach or Treppner. I had one slim french book, the petit lenormand deck that was handed down to me and a thirst to understand them.

I learned the full layout 9X4 method first, without direction, and I got extremely good at it (you be the judge though!). The problem is that writing online about the 9X4 is a complex issue. Phoenix said that Sylvie's mother takes 2 hours to read it... It has a lot of detail. Some of it staggering. The problem is that you need to recognize patterns, and the cards definitions. When I came to Aeclectic Tarot, I was looking for is exactly what you've written down: more information on the method I've been using for 10 years.

Instead, I bumped into the Steinbach threads. I'll say one thing about them: "They've given me more food for thought, and my technique has changed slightly because of it." For only for that, I think the two worlds coliding was beneficial. I don't resort to only the 9X4 now, but I've come to a melding, but I have been leaving the 9X4 method aside. Which is something I'd like to remedy.

Having never read the Treppner method, I'm hard pressed to see just how close it might be with my own personal experiences, and would like to see more on Treppner and more people discussing it.

A point of note: I hate the whole fluff about one method being better than the other. I personally don't believe it. What I agree on is that people might favor a method over another, just as people might favor lemon marigue pie over pumpkin spice pie, but don't tell me the pumpkin pie is the better pie and the only pie I should be eating (and it matters little to me how many people have eaten it before)...

Would there be some learning threads on Treppner? Or would someone endeavor to start some excersise off? I've been thinking of doing a full reading spread and going into the trouble of disecting it.

Kenrick
02-10-2012, 04:53
I found this thread and excitedly read all eight pages of it.And when I reach the end, it appears that the last post was several years ago. :-(

I tried to find both of the things talked about… Steinbach and Treppner.

I have been able to find the Teeppner site, but even translating it, I can not find the course.

Is it still being offered?

Anyone know how to find both of these resources?

Thanks.

Kenrick
02-10-2012, 05:01
I'm not sure if this is the best place to post this, so apologies if it is not where it should be.

Does anyone have and use (or have knowledge of) both the Sibilla and the Lenormand cards.

The Sibilla cards I have, have 52 cards, like a full playing card deck. The Lenormand has like 36 if I remember.

What are the strengths and weaknesses of both these decks/styles.

I'm very excited at what the prospects are for what these seem to represent in comparison to the tarot - a more practical way of looking at things. I've read tarot for many years, so am excited to branch out into these and would like to hear from those with more experience.

Thank you.

IheartTarot
02-10-2012, 05:31
I tried to find both of the things talked about… Steinbach and Treppner.

I have been able to find the Teeppner site, but even translating it, I can not find the course.

Is it still being offered?

Anyone know how to find both of these resources?

You can now order the Treppner correspondence course here (http://www.iristreppner.com/index.php?id=573). Attach a note if you want the English version.

The Secrets of the Lenormand Oracle by Sylvie Steinbach is available from Amazon, Book Depository etc.

Kenrick
03-10-2012, 05:39
Thank you very much for the information. That helped.

I'm really looking for comments from those knowledgeable about one or both of these decks as to what the strengths and weaknesses of both the Lenormand and Sibilla decks are.

It appears there are no English resources for the Sibilla decks - so that's one big difference. :-) Of course, if anyone knows of any, I'd love it if you'd pass on where to find it.

I've read Tarot all my life and just found out about these other oracles. Don't know how I missed these for so many years.

Anyway, anyone with info of ideas, would love to hear them.

Thanks.

Kenrick
04-10-2012, 15:01
Went ahead and bought both the Treppner course and Sylvie's book as well.

It's in the wee hours of the morning in Germany right now so hopefully I'll have it in the AM when I get up.