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mosaica
13-01-2008, 22:25
I'd like to learn basic astrology in order to increase my understanding and knowledge of the cards, but I have a resistance to learning it. I feel like there's a fine line between archetype and stereotype. I struggle with court cards for the same reason. I don't like to type people. I don't like to assume that I know what kind of person someone is simply because they might be represented by a particular court card, or a particular zodiac sign.

I hope I don't offend anyone by asking: How do you avoid stereotyping in astrology? I know very little about it, so I may very well be misunderstanding it. Does astrology lead to stereotyping, or does it help you avoid it?

Thanks.
Mosaica :)

balenciaga
13-01-2008, 23:52
A person's individual astrological chart prevents stereotyping as long as one gets past the initial sun-sign interp.
I do not know much about astrology either; I dabble in it very lightly (and ever so gingerly) because I do not understand all the degrees/math- related stuff.:)

franniee
13-01-2008, 23:59
A person's individual astrological chart prevents stereotyping as long as one gets past the initial sun-sign interp.
I do not know much about astrology either; I dabble in it very lightly (and ever so gingerly) because I do not understand all the degrees/math- related stuff.:)

Exactly!

Not all virgos are created equally! Not all leos are the same, etc etc etc It all depends on your chart and mostly on your personal planets. It isn't stereotyping at all. It is the moment we are born and the place that determines the alignment of the planets in the chart.

The rising sign usually signifies who the person is outwardly while the sun sign is the inner you but even that general statement isn't perfect because your personal planets play into this too.... the chart is 3 dimensional everything interacts with everything else...

ravenest
14-01-2008, 09:43
And even if we were all sterotypes, 1 of 12 or 1 of 16 (courts) our environment and daily situation and upbrining and...and...and... all modifies us and makes us and our reactions and responses.

mosaica
14-01-2008, 10:03
And even if we were all sterotypes, 1 of 12 or 1 of 16 (courts) our environment and daily situation and upbrining and...and...and... all modifies us and makes us and our reactions and responses.

So astrology is so complex because it needs to mirror the complexity of life (or life mirrors the complexity of the universe!). So can you use astrology to bring complexity to the courts?

franniee
14-01-2008, 10:10
So astrology is so complex because it needs to mirror the complexity of life (or life mirrors the complexity of the universe!). So can you use astrology to bring complexity to the courts?


Oh absolutely! I use it all of the time! Each court to me is a sign. :) and it brings those attributes. :)

Starling
14-01-2008, 22:12
I hope I don't offend anyone by asking: How do you avoid stereotyping in astrology? I know very little about it, so I may very well be misunderstanding it. Does astrology lead to stereotyping, or does it help you avoid it?



Actually it is pretty easy to avoid it in real Astrology. Just take the 3 main points and multiply the possibilities. 12 Sun signs x 12 Moon signs x 12 Ascendants = 1728 possibilities. Of course each of those Sun and Moon signs also has 12 possible house placements as well, so that ups the possibilities by quite a bit. And are the Sun and Moon and/or Ascendant in some kind of aspect to one another? Which kind of aspect? That makes even more changes.

You don't get a whole lot of stereotyping with those kinds of numbers.

As for the Court Cards, I always think that any individual can be any of those 16 cards TODAY, or at this moment in time, or for this question. For example I am a 66 year old woman and I got one of the Pages and one of the Knights in last night's reading. Obviously some aspect of me that had nothing to do with my age or my sex was being highlighted. If you manage to avoid the idea that YOU are ALWAYS the Queen of Swords or the Queen of Pentacles (both of which fit me a lot of the time) you don't have to worry about stereotyping.

mosaica
14-01-2008, 22:22
Actually it is pretty easy to avoid it in real Astrology. Just take the 3 main points and multiply the possibilities. 12 Sun signs x 12 Moon signs x 12 Ascendants = 1728 possibilities. Of course each of those Sun and Moon signs also has 12 possible house placements as well, so that ups the possibilities by quite a bit. And are the Sun and Moon and/or Ascendant in some kind of aspect to one another? Which kind of aspect? That makes even more changes.

You don't get a whole lot of stereotyping with those kinds of numbers.

As for the Court Cards, I always think that any individual can be any of those 16 cards TODAY, or at this moment in time, or for this question. For example I am a 66 year old woman and I got one of the Pages and one of the Knights in last night's reading. Obviously some aspect of me that had nothing to do with my age or my sex was being highlighted. If you manage to avoid the idea that YOU are ALWAYS the Queen of Swords or the Queen of Pentacles (both of which fit me a lot of the time) you don't have to worry about stereotyping.

Thanks for the numbers, Starling. As I say, my knowledge of astrology is very vague. It just seems like I hear all the time -- even from professional astrologers and tarot readers -- things like, "Oh, SHE'S a Capricorn ...," or "Oh, HE'S a King of Cups..." (with a knowing tone of voice) as if that explains *everything* they ever need to know about that person. I want to avoid ever doing that myself.

Starling
15-01-2008, 06:04
Thanks for the numbers, Starling. As I say, my knowledge of astrology is very vague. It just seems like I hear all the time -- even from professional astrologers and tarot readers -- things like, "Oh, SHE'S a Capricorn ...," or "Oh, HE'S a King of Cups..." (with a knowing tone of voice) as if that explains *everything* they ever need to know about that person. I want to avoid ever doing that myself.

Astrology is a psychological language. It is other things too including a clock, but when someone says, "Oh, SHE'S a Capricorn..." that is what they are trying to do. They are trying to tie a whole group of meanings that belong to the concept of Capricorn to that person. If they really think that is the whole thing, that is their problem. It should be possible to use the language without making the mistake that the sign of a single planet, even the Sun, or a single card, even the King of Cups, says everything about anyone person. Because both of us know that it doesn't.

Let's not through out the baby with the bathwater. I'm sure you've known people who have been The Emperor, The Empress, the Fool, or even the Wheel of Fortune at some point in their lives. <grin> It goes for signs too.

mosaica
15-01-2008, 07:28
Let's not through out the baby with the bathwater. I'm sure you've known people who have been The Emperor, The Empress, the Fool, or even the Wheel of Fortune at some point in their lives. <grin> It goes for signs too.

OK, maybe *I'm* being too black and white on the issue (and reflecting that onto other people). Eventually this will all come together for me. It will click, and I'll "get it," if I just keep plugging away with the cards.

"Astrology for Dummies" maybe? (I just saw this book praised on another forum.)

ravenest
16-01-2008, 11:44
So astrology is so complex because it needs to mirror the complexity of life (or life mirrors the complexity of the universe!). So can you use astrology to bring complexity to the courts?

More like use your observation and intuition to bring the complexity of the individual out of the archetypes in both tarot and astrology.

Minderwiz
20-01-2008, 06:10
I would be very doubtful of trying to use Astrology to bring out the complexity of the Court Cards (or for that matter any of the other Tarot cards), except by analogy.

Astrology works on the basis of a moment in time, for which a chart is erected. Astrology assumes that the moment, be it a birth or an event or a question takes on a character determined by the planets and important points at that moment.

Now the Courts, or indeed any card do not create a 'moment' except when the deck as a whole is created. I Can see that a 'moment' can be fixed for the creation of a deck and Astrology could be used to examine that moment and to deduce some knowledge of the nature of the deck.

That being said, many readers do use Astrological analogies and I can see that that can be quite useful, rather like using a system of keywords. So long as the reader understands that they are reasoning by analogy, rather than describing inherent characteristics, I would imagine that some very useful insights can be drawn.