Rectifying a birth time -- FIRST STEP

I have been asked to assist two of our list members in finding a birth time for use in creating a workable chart for them. We will be posting a number of suggestions and responses here relative to Sonic and Starling. Due to the effort that may be required, I will not be running charts for others, but all are free to follow along and ask questions.

THE FIRST STEP:
Each person wishing to find a "birth time" needs to read horoscope writings in the newspaper and/or magazines, or in books and determine which "signs" seem to feel appropriate to you. For example, a newspaper may talk about both the qualities of life and attitudes you will feel are being activated at this time -- OR they may talk about what area of life will be impacted.

The first approach may suggest a Sun, Moon or angular sign. The latter approach may suggest a house -- which indirectly applies to a possible Ascendant sign. So, make note of what resonates with you -- the manner in how you experience life or the area/activities of your life that are indicated.
It is important to observe these differenences. Sonic and Starling may PM me if they wish, or they can post them here. Everyone else can post and share for others to comment upon.

I would expect that we can move to the next step within a few days. Dave

Ok, in my case I did this years ago, and moved the Ascendant from Leo to Cancer. But only just barely into that sign. Cancer just fit better.

What is the second step?

For Starling

In your case, since you believe that "Cancer" is the right sign for your Ascendant, we need to determine the time more closely.

Your SECOND STEP, is to identify your most acute aspect pattern. It will be necessary to determine whether the planets in that aspect pattern change houses when the Ascendant (and the associated time) is altered. THIS IS IMPORTANT because we can then see which house (area of life) best fits how that aspect pattern is expressed. In this way we can adjust the time closer to its probably birth time. Later we will go to step three.

You can try this with additional aspect patterns as well. It's OK if this does not yield a clear answer. We have many other things to work with. Dave

Sorry I haven't answered. I've been sick with flu. Today is the first day on the computer, and only barely. I'll try some of what you suggest and let's see if that Stellium moves and where.

I moved the birth time half an hour earlier. That moved Saturn from 10th House (where it always didn't seem to quite fit) to the 11th. OH WOW!

I think that fits even more than the move to the Cancer Ascendant did.

And Mars moved from 7th House to 8th. Not quite as wild, but yes, that fits too.

I don't have a bunch of books in the house, so I went online and dug into stuff from Cafe Astrology. I read both Saturn and Mars in both the old houses and the new ones. And there is no question that both of them were not quite right in the old house, and dead on in the new one.

There are two aspect patterns involved. There is an exact Mars / Saturn square, now 11th house to 8th house and the Aries / Taurus Stellium that always was in the 10th and 11th houses and now are more equally spread over them (4 planets in the 10th, 3 in the 11th).

I just checked the house cusps. All of them moved, of course and the Mid-heaven is now in aspect to the Sun/Venus (30 degrees) and Pluto (90), but no house changed sign.

So I guess I'm now going with a 10:00 am birth time unless there is more to work on.

Yes, we'll do another step

Yes, we'll do another step of a similar nature before we do some real work. You will next want to look at the Moon. How close is it to making any aspect be "exact." The Moon can move from about 11 to 15 degrees in a day -- this breaks down to about one degree every two hours.

Ask yourself these questions:

1) How does your Moon express itself in your life?

2) Would its manner of expression be changed if the Moon's aspect(s) were more exact or less exact?

Consider this. If you move the time to around 10am, this moves the Moon a bit closer to Mercury. Thinking is influenced by feelings. This makes for one who thinks while they are sleeping, one who can learn new things very quickly. Are these qualities evident in you? Could they be more emphasized and if so, how would that change your way of acting? If these qualities are evident but not extreme, we might want to move your Ascendant and the Moon a bit further away, say to 10:15AM.

So, lets play with this earlier time a bit before we try the real stuff. Dave

Not looser, tighter. At this point they are about 1.5 degrees apart.

I've been back on Cafe Astrology because it is so accessable. They said something that really hit the spot. At one point they said:

"Instead of allowing themselves to feel on a pure level, these people are constantly asking themselves how they feel. "

I do that.

I learn things very quickly, and I do have learning dreams.

I just ran a 9:30 am chart. It moved the Sun / Venus conjunction into the 11th house and the North Node into the 4th House. All the Taurus planets are now in the 11th house. You know the Stellium in the 10th never made much sense to me because my career was so ordinary it was boring. Most of my work life involved very low level stuff, and bored me to death.

The Moon / Mercury conjunction is now about half a degree from exact. The Moon / Uranus semi-sextile is now less than a degree (it was always close). The Ascendant is now at 16 Cancer and exactly sextile Saturn and inconjunct Mars.

I'll need to have a good look at all of that and it is going to take a while.

The first attempt, the 10:00 chart works. The 9:30 chart doesn't feel as right because the Sun and Venus in 11 don't work as well from what I've been able to read as they do in 10.

The 10th house stellium has always bothered me because I didn't have that wonderful career it looked like it was promising. I had plenty of ambition, but no carry through, and not a lot of luck either. I did manage to do a bit of management towards the end of my working life, and I was a great boss. But...

But frankly, although I've got a bunch of idealism, I'm not that good in groups and never was, so 11 for the Sun and Venus doesn't work. Saturn in 11 (not good in groups!) does work. Having that as what drives my ego (Sun) or my life's pleasures (Venus) doesn't work as well. I did do some Astrological sentences in the Keywords thread. Sun and Venus do not ring right.

I still need to do some more reading however.

Ok

You do your reading as that is very important. It's like trying on shoes, you have to make a judgment while in the store as to buy or not to buy. It is only afterwards, if you purchased the shoes, that you really find out how it all works. Once you have thought about the tentative time chosen and the planets in their adjusted positions, we'll move on to the next steps which will help us nail down a working time to within a few minutes of accuracy. Dave

I'm going with the 10:00 am chart. Saturn is in 11. Mars in 8. Venus and the Sun are still in 10.

What is next?