What if we start inventing tarot?

I've been wondering this for a while now...

I see many people - and books - telling that one should read tarot without following crazily book meanings, because they are limiting. That we should read what we see, intuitively.

And i agree - if it took just a book and a set of cards to be a reader, nobody would need us. Heh. Everybody would be their own DIY tarot reader.

But i was also thinking...what if, following intuition too much, we end up subverting the tarot? We end up geting away from the 'basic' thing that makes tarot what it is, and not just an oracle deck.

I see many tarot decks that twist and turn and bend and stretch tarot so much i can no longer recognize them as a tarot decks anymore. For me, it's an oracle with trumps.

It's like the authors are re-inventing something based on tarot, but no longer connected to the tarot as we know it.

But then again...what if us, as reader, are doing a similar thing? What is we are using too much what we think and...re-inventing tarot. Giving it the meanings we think that fit better and everything, with no connection to the traditional meanings?

I'm not saying it's wrong - please i'm not being judgemental here. I just can't help but think that maybe we too twist and turn tarot meanings according to our intuition that in the end we drift away from what tarot it. Because if tarot can be anything the reader wants, then...what makes it 'tarot', and nothing something else created by the reader?

When does 'taromancy' become 'i-think-so-mancy'?

Did i make any sense?

Thanks for reading and, if possible, answering.

I wholeheartedly agree, which is why I think it best to go back to the basics, once in a while, and remind ourselves of the original meanings and learn to take some kind of middle road where we balance out both the traditional meanings and our own intuition. I believe we are all psychic to a certain extent and that allows for the latter to grow and expand our intuition, so it should not be dampened. As we learn more about tarot, we become more familiar with certain decks and our intuition builds upon the traditional meanings. That is okay, but like I said, a review with the basics never hurt anyone. I also believe there are people so gifted that they do see far beyond the cards (and really don't even need them) to divine and tradition no longer holds much necessity to them. For me...I take the middle road on most decks, but not all. Using pure intuition can be a very enlightening experience!

HearthCricket said:

I also believe there are people so gifted that they do see far beyond the cards (and really don't even need them) to divine and tradition no longer holds much necessity to them.

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Yes, i believe such people exist. But they don't need tarot for that then...usually, they could read bones, seas shells and anything, and they still would get amazing results.

But what about the rest of us who aren't that gifted? Couldn't we be using 'intuition' as an excuse to re-invent the meaning of the cards? I know intuition makes the reading deeper, but how deep one should go before transforming tarot in something else?

I think too it's nice to 'go back to the basic' once in a while. Helps to see things in a less complicated way, and usually, much more meaningful.

I think you make a very good point Marina and I don't know the answer !!

Marina said:

But then again...what if us, as reader, are doing a similar thing? What is we are using too much what we think and...re-inventing tarot. Giving it the meanings we think that fit better and everything, with no connection to the traditional meanings?

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But – But - But…you say that like it’s a bad thing…?!?

The real tradition (IMO), is that the sitter comes to us, sits down, and we begin to talk. So what if we use clumps of oatmeal, or finger paints, or read how the cheese curdles.

The real tradition of Tarot is that we’d sit and play Tarok (“You bid HOW MANY with that hand? Wahahahahahaha and no you can’t take my Fool. I keep it, here’s a worthless non-point card.”)

In certain North American Native cultures, we go out and walk, until we find a rock that seems to demand our attention. Then we sit, pick up the rock…and that is our tool of divination for the moment.

Fewer rules makes for good reading.

And hey – this whole Tarot thing was made up anyways!

I can see what you're saying. Yes, getting back to basics can be good at times, but we can't always stick to basics. There is so much more to each card than just the basics. The basic meanings sometimes just skim the surface of what a card means to you. If we aren't flexible with meanings, we can't read well. I used to get headaches because I tried to force a reading so that the basic meanings fit. I believe that the basic meanings of cards can hold true, but there are many more interpretations in addition to and those that tie into the basics. We instead need an essence of what each card means to us for flexibility and to be open to other interpretations as well. We can gather much more depth by either delving deep into basics or going with our guts.

Think about it this way: we start with 1+2. Then when we know it very well, we start doing algebra. As time progresses and our acquisition of knowledge increases, our arsenal increases. We start being able to follow mathematical theory. Those who know their stuff extremely well start forming our own theory. There are others who, from day one, play with numbers and make their own theories. Whether they're valid or not can be proven. Some people are able to create logical short cuts (not talking about memorization) and will do better. So we experiment until we find what works for us and in reality.

Umbrae said:

But – But - But…you say that like it’s a bad thing…?!?

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No, i wasn't . Sorry if i made it appear that way...lack of eye-to-eye communication does that. We need a forum with webcam.

Actually the idea is that i don't know if it's a bad thing or a good one. I really don't. I see some people saying you can do whatever you want, as long as you respect some 'basics' that make tarot tarot, and not something else. I see some people saying screw the basics, read whatever comes to your mind (then i wonder if one needs tarot for that). But i can't tell if either approachs are good or bad because...i'm still making up my mind. And i know it sounds really stupid, but stupid mind o'mine won't shut up, so i just had to ask...

Umbrae said:

The real tradition (IMO), is that the sitter comes to us, sits down, and we begin to talk. So what if we use clumps of oatmeal, or finger paints, or read how the cheese curdles.

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Hum...do you get your answers from the tarot or from yourself? I mean, do you really can read with clumps of atmeal...then why choose tarot?

Umbrae said:

Fewer rules makes for good reading.

And hey – this whole Tarot thing was made up anyways!

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I deslike the excessive rules, but i wonder if some of them aren't necessary. Some of the basic stuff. Like, you've got to know the rules in order to choose breaking them.

lilangel09 said:

Yes, getting back to basics can be good at times, but we can't always stick to basics. There is so much more to each card than just the basics. The basic meanings sometimes just skim the surface of what a card means to you. If we aren't flexible with meanings, we can't read well.

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I never said that one should stick to the basics. If you stick too long to the bacis you'll be a basic reader and do basic readings. I bet most of reader don't want to be that.

What i asked if there is something that makes the idea of tarot an unique thing, different from other decks or divination forms out there. Because if anyone can give any meaning they feel like to the cards then...what makes a certain deck be a tarot and not something else?

Maybe the structure - 78 card, 22 major arcana, 56 minor, yadda yadda. But that idea that tarot can be whatever you want it to be has helped to give birth to many decks that, as i said, twist and turn and bend and stretch what we recognize as tarot and transform it into something else. But something that claims to be a tarot deck.

I was asking which is the limit - if there is any limit at all - before you start changing tarot into something else, using intuition as an excuse. Or if there are no limits, if the limit is your imagination/intuition/gut feeling, then whatcharacteristics make a tarot deck receive this name...if the the Magician, for instance, can mean completely opposite things for two readers.

Thanks for reading and replying

Marina said:

But i was also thinking...what if, following intuition too much, we end up subverting the tarot? We end up geting away from the 'basic' thing that makes tarot what it is, and not just an oracle deck.

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Then we're deluding ourselves.

Marina said:

But then again...what if us, as reader, are doing a similar thing? What is we are using too much what we think and...re-inventing tarot. Giving it the meanings we think that fit better and everything, with no connection to the traditional meanings?

Click to expand...

The Tarot is just images - to a great extent, there are no meanings other than those we assign to said images. Not that said images don't have a substance in themselves - a Falling Tower is a Falling Tower - but it's our reactions to that substance that's importance.

Umbrae said:

And hey – this whole Tarot thing was made up anyways!

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He must be feeling better!

Umbrae said:

But – But - But…you say that like it’s a bad thing…?!?

The real tradition (IMO), is that the sitter comes to us, sits down, and we begin to talk. So what if we use clumps of oatmeal, or finger paints, or read how the cheese curdles.

The real tradition of Tarot is that we’d sit and play Tarok (“You bid HOW MANY with that hand? Wahahahahahaha and no you can’t take my Fool. I keep it, here’s a worthless non-point card.”)

In certain North American Native cultures, we go out and walk, until we find a rock that seems to demand our attention. Then we sit, pick up the rock…and that is our tool of divination for the moment.

Fewer rules makes for good reading.

And hey – this whole Tarot thing was made up anyways!

Click to expand...

And he's back. :