Retrograde motion in a natal chart?

What is the influence of retrograde motion in a natal chart?

From what I can tell most people have a few planets in retrograde at the time of their birth. I have one, but I think it is an important one owing to the shape of my chart... it is my sling planet, all the way over there on the other side to everything else.

Retrograde motion in itself is an illusion, it just looks that way right? So does it really have an effect or is that effect an illusion?

My retrograde planet is Jupiter in Pisces in the 7th house. Actually, it's the end of the 6th and read in the 7th apparently? Why is that?

So I guess my question is how do you interpret retrograde motion in natal charts and what impact or influence do you feel that planets that are retrograde have on you? Important? Unimportant?

A quickie

"Outer" planets appear to be retrograde when they are opposite the Sun's position (relative to Earth) between the "trines" -- more than 120 degrees from the Sun. As you note, this is just "apparent" motion and is due to the relative speed of the Earth (near the Sun) and the outer planet (further from the Sun).

Think of retrogrades as an EMPHASIS. Even if not in opposition to the Sun, the planet is seeming to move backward, if so then it will at another point move forward. The planet's birth position and the point where it seemed to stop and then move forward will both remain important points in your chart when they are transited later in your life by this same planet or another planet which it has a tight aspect to.

Jupiter retrograde may add a sense of having to assess anything good that comes your way -- you will look a gift horse in the mouth, so to speak. You have the ability to be objective, not to just jump at a promise. In a way, this is almost like having a bit of Saturn involved with your Jupiter. That's good. Dave

I have Jupiter retrograde too...in Aries, 5th house. I still don't know really what it means, but it's good to get a vision in which it's not so bad. Once a friend, that is much more into astrology than i, told me it made the planet's energies go 'opposite' - like an upside down tarot card.

I tried to find if it was really that bad, but didn't find much info on retrogrades...so thanks Dave, for offering another rview.

Thanks Dave for your response, I wish I could say half as much in a quickie!
I never would have thought to look at where the planet goes direct as being relevant, so now have looked that up too.

So if retrograde is an emphasis and it is my sling planet that means that it has extra emphasis? As the handle on my bucket? Geez astrology, answer one question have twenty more! Funny you mention Saturn as it is pretty much the only tight aspect.

So retrograde motion kind of serves to temper the extremes of the planet in retrograde? Or does it depend on the planet which is retrograde? You can ignore the questions, I'm just thinking out loud.

Thanks Marina, for responding, nice to know that I'm not alone with a Jupiter retrograde. You are quite right, there isn't much information that I have found on this either. It's like yep the planets retrograde... and moving on. Hah, maybe that is Jupiter retrograde... to ask but why and what does it all mean?

Retrograde motion in itself is an illusion, it just looks that way right? So does it really have an effect or is that effect an illusion?

Click to expand...

I think an illusion can have an effect. I've read of celebrities changing their known date of birth and starting to act like their "show" star sign, and that the constellations that most astrologers say we're born under are actually according to astrophysicists, spots in the sky where those constellations used to be (but tropical astrology still more or less works... for the given value of "effectiveness".) And most of the stars we think we see at night are probably really dead, but apparently still carry over some psychic energies.

In planetary movements I think of this psychic energy as being painted across the sky... during retrograde, the paintbrush is "re-touching" where it's been, so there's a stronger streak.

A friend of my dad's who's a professional astrologer explains retrogrades from the perspective of reincarnation, that the retrograde patterns are just the universe inhaling and exhaling, but the planetary and house correspondents during a retrograde can indicate our karmic debt (lessons we failed to learn in a past life.) A person who has a retrograde just chose to come into the world at a moment the universe was exhaling.
I think this might be because the emphasis of a retrograde is a helpful boost... it doesn't have to be bad, it's like cram school I guess. My Pluto retrograde in the 8th house is apparently what granted me portentous dreams growing up. (This astrologer includes the waaay-outer planets that-- oh, joy --go retrograde as often as they don't... and Pluto, which isn't even a planet anymore.) But I've yet to find the blessing in Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune retrograding in the 7th.

It's kind of basic . . .

When a planet is retrograde, it has most likely turned retrograde some time before your birth. You were born at the time it was already retrograde -- there must be a reason for that. You have to work a little harder to find our how that planet can "directly" express itself. You have to dig into what the "added" meanings are -- they may show up a reluctance to express that symbol fully or to hold back in some way. You may decide to reassess things and hesitate before using that planetary symbol. Perhaps the planet's meaning is subdued for you or there might be another planet in aspect that is direct and exerts more influence than you might expect.

To the trained eye, there will likely be other seemingly unrelated patterns that will emphasize the retrograde meaning of the planet in question. In any case, when you have something that goes against the grain or doesn't seem to fit, then don't ignore it -- look for other things that tie into it and help explain it. It is these quirky things in a chart that better reveal the character of the person. Dave

Dave, your post made me curious so I checked for when Neptune went direct. That took more than a month. But what was interesting was that Pluto went direct 10 days before I was born. It had moved a couple of seconds in that time. Would it have been considered to be stationary direct?

When my sister did my chart the first time she had one of those emphemerides that only gave positions for Pluto twice a month, and I remember that she had SD next to Pluto in that chart. Later with daily positions it was changed. Was the original chart right?

triple_entendre said:

In planetary movements I think of this psychic energy as being painted across the sky... during retrograde, the paintbrush is "re-touching" where it's been, so there's a stronger streak.

Click to expand...

triple_entendre, that is very poetic and I like the analogy very much... your thoughts on karmic debt are interesting to me also for a few reasons.

Thanks Dave, once again, most helpful! Holding back is very interesting and something that I will have to consider further. In some respects, I think it is holding back but in other respects I think it is my saving grace. Further pondering required, time to get out the shovel and dig a little deeper. I think that I am beginning to see things coming together a bit here, a few more pieces of the puzzle coming together as such.

Thanks again Dave, it is greatly appreciated!

Good topic!

I have Mercury Rx in tight conjunction with my natal Sun, both in the 11th House, in Pisces. This expresses itself as a strong introspective streak and a tendency to try and explain myself because I'm afraid people will misunderstand me - I actually never really know if they do understand me, which is unnerving. I've come to terms with it by developing my psychic streak - I hear messages (another Mercury Rx gift), especially about other people - and these I have to trust.

I also have Jupiter Rx in Cancer in the 3rd house - I am not sure what all that together means, but what Dave says about assessing gifts that come my way is very much on the money. What of the "Cancer/3rd house" bit? I personally would say it emphasises the tendency of my Mercury Rx towards introspection and a compulsion to explain myself, especially in emotional matters. Jupiter in Cancer is often said to be about being happy at home, with family. and finding a strong base for growth in the home. So what of its Rx motion in Cancer?

I have to add that my Jupiter Rx is involved in a Grand Trine in Water with Saturn (in Pisces) and Neptune (in Scorpio). How does the natal retrograde affect that Grand Trine?

In my natal chart, Neptune, Uranus and Pluto are also retrograde - these are all outer, generational planets. What does their Rx motion mean from an interpretation point of view in a natal chart?

For Starling

Given that a table listing only two positions a month was used, determining that Pluto was probably stationary-turning-direct and only being "off" a few days is a sign of good, careful judgment. In your case, you can essentially see Pluto as being SD in your chart.

You should treat this as being a highly sensitive point! If Pluto is, natally, in any aspect with one/more other planets, any of the planets in that pattern will likely, by transit, trigger that point. You should test this. It could be interesting. Dave