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JustLearningTarot
15-03-2008, 07:09
Is it possible to be a confused Cancer, thinking I am somewhat a Leo too? Does being born near the end of a sign date range bring in influences of the next preceeding sign?

I was born on the 20th of July, I have been a Cancer very much (I like being a cave dweller as my wife calls me, more comfortable in my home then anywhere else), but have a lot of the Leo traits as well (my mother was a Leo - very much a Leo).

When I read the traits of a Leo, I find I also meet them as well as a Cancer, so feel a bit mixed in between. I read the rest of the signs and just dont feel a connection as strongly as I do when I take some from Cancer and some from Leo.

Is this possible? Like my wife was born at the begining of Cancer time, is considered a Cancer, but is very much a Gemini/Cancer mix. Am I off base here? Would a "True" cancer be born in the exact middle of the "Cancer time" and as the dates progress towards the next sign, take more of a mixture from each of them, having dominance of the initial/main sign, but traits of the coming sign as well?

Does this question make sense?

Furnacechant
15-03-2008, 07:40
I have often heard that is the case, actually...Personally I'm only about three days earlier than you, but very much Cancerian. Then again, I've got multiple water signs in the rest of my chart backing it up...

GenoviaJ
15-03-2008, 07:44
I think its the rising sign that give you - most of your personality traits. At least that has been my experience.

Melanchollic
15-03-2008, 10:19
GenoviaJ is right, according to the tradition, the Rising Sign (which is determined by birth-time) is a strong indicator of outward character. Of course, the whole chart must be considered, the other planets, their house rulerships, the houses in which they reside, the signs in which they reside, proximity to certain powerful fixed stars, receptions, aspects, syncretic considerations like the Arabian parts... blah blah blah... It boggles the mind.

If you don't mind dishing out a little money, get a professional natal reading. Christopher Warnock and Benjamin Dykes or two well known and respected scholars and practitioners of the craft. The other option is learning it yourself, and it would take a few years, and some committed studying, and again, money for instruction and texts, before you could correctly interpret a natal chart.

:CL Cheers,

R
a
H

rcb30872
15-03-2008, 10:34
Yes, definitely get an idea where the other planets on the zodiac are. For instance, I am a Virgo sun sign, Capricorn rising, and Taurus moon, and then there are times when I am a bit like a Leo. I have my Mercury in Leo. My birthday is say within a week towards Leo, but not really a cusp.

faunabay
15-03-2008, 11:10
Another person with the same thing!! My sun sign is Cancer. And my rising sign is Leo!! I connect extremely well with both. I find neither one completely describes me by itself. I have to look at both!!

JustLearningTarot
16-03-2008, 02:50
Well that makes much sense then, thank you all for the answers.

Starling
17-03-2008, 21:55
There is another answer for the Cancer/Leo situation as well as having the Sun in one sign and the Moon and/or Ascendant in the other.

Your Cancer Sun will progress into Leo during your lifetime. Depending on what degree the Cancer Sun is in, that progression can happen very early in your life.

There are multiple ways to progress a chart, but whether you are using the day = a year or the degree = a year method, the Sun will move into the next sign in no more than 30 years. As an example, my natal 5 degree Taurus Sun is now at 9 degrees Cancer using either method. I will be 67 in April. So although I started out as an early Taurus, I have progressed through Gemini and am now in Cancer. I'm sure that the Cancer progressed Sun is affecting how people perceive me.

GoddessArtemis
18-03-2008, 03:56
Your Cancer Sun will progress into Leo during your lifetime. Depending on what degree the Cancer Sun is in, that progression can happen very early in your life.That's a good point about progression into other signs. I'm a Pisces sun but have been told most my life that I come across as an Aries (most don't believe I'm a Pisces). I also have my Mercury in Aries, which doubles the impact of the Aries-like personality people think I project..and I think that's why they get confused when I show emotions (watery ones), because that's so "unlike" me - they say. I have a Scorpio rising, which most pick up on when they first meet me, but then they get confused by my Sagittarius moon. :P It's fun to keep people guessing..and yet, in close relationships, this gets sticky as people can't understand whether you're coming or going, so they misunderstand you and can act accordingly.

I have a friend who's birthday is on the cusp of Gemini/Cancer, and she claims she's more of a Cancer than a Gemini. My impression is that she's really much more like a Gemini, with hints of Cancer. We disagree on this, but it's okay...I can think she's wrong in my head. :P

A lot of it depends on the rest of your chart, too, as others say.

GA

Melanchollic
18-03-2008, 10:13
Hi GoddessArtemis,

Your choice of Avatar certainly shows a passionate 'fiery' aspect to your temperament.

I'm on the Gemini/Cancer cusp, and in contrast to my melancholic 'nom de plume', I lean more toward the sanguine 'airiness' of Gemini. The more orthodox minded Astrologers, like John Frawley, dismiss the 'cusp theory' outright as nonsense, but popular 'Personology' astrologer Gary Goldschneider's description of The Gemini/Cancer "Cusp of Magic", as he calls it, fits me to a 'T' (Affectionate, Seductive, Objective, Isolated, Selfish, Demanding). Of course, the 'airy' qualities, like being "objective", could be due to my Ascendent's position in energetic and fun-loving Aquarius. The "isolated, selfish" side could be due to stuffy ol' Saturn, the ruler of Aquarius, being in moody Pisces, yet is still in the First House. (My First House is straddling Aquarius and Pisces, giving Saturn extra "oomph"!) The "affectionate" part could be from sensual Venus frolicking in the 'House of Pleasure' (5th). And my "seductive" nature could be explained by crafty Mercury being but two degrees off my Venus in the 5th, giving me an almost hypnotic ability to charm and 'sweet-talk' my way out of any trouble (or 'sweet-talk' my way into all sorts of trouble, of a particular 'venusian' flavor. ;) ). The fascinating thing is that both approaches undeniably seem to be giving a fairly accurate description of my character!


:CL Cheers,

R
a
H

Fire Cat
18-03-2008, 11:45
I am also Cancer with rising sign Leo.

Maybe we should start a club!

kilts_knave
aka Krabby Kat })

star-lover
18-03-2008, 18:14
to the OP, what is your date of birth? whatever sign you are the probability is that one or more of the inner planets is in the adjacent signs so you could have mercury and venus in leo at the very least

GoddessArtemis
19-03-2008, 02:44
I'm on the Gemini/Cancer cusp, and in contrast to my melancholic 'nom de plume', I lean more toward the sanguine 'airiness' of Gemini.If your birthday is as your profile here indicates, you're not on the cusp; you're a Cancer...

GA

star-lover
19-03-2008, 06:38
If your birthday is as your profile here indicates, you're not on the cusp; you're a Cancer...

GA

lots of planets in cancer too

i had a look and mel has jupiter in gemini - that means in cook book terms lots and lots of a gemini feeling (jupiter planet of excess)

i think your jupiter sign has a big input

Melanchollic
19-03-2008, 09:17
If your birthday is as your profile here indicates, you're not on the cusp; you're a Cancer...

GA

Thanks GA,

Yeah there's been some debate about that. Gary Goldschneider in The Secret Language of Birthdays sets the cusp as June 19 - June 24, others a more narrow range. I personally have traditionalist leanings and look at the whole enchilada (chart) and not so much just the Sun's position. God, I love this stuff!!





lots of planets in cancer too

i had a look and mel has jupiter in gemini - that means in cook book terms lots and lots of a gemini feeling (jupiter planet of excess)

i think your jupiter sign has a big input


Thanks for that star-lover. Cool!

My birth-time is 10:36 pm (Houston, TX) if anyone wants to give me a free natal reading. LOL :D



:CL Cheers,

R
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H

star-lover
19-03-2008, 19:48
here is your chart mel

all i can see which might make you feel like a gemini (apart from jupiter in gemini which is also ruler of your MC and sits in your 4th next to north node - perhaps the house of roots/soul and sign it has makes us *feel* like that sign alot) is your moon being on the cusp of the 3rd house (and possibly in it if different house systems are used)

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/7513/astro2at75melancholic34dp1.gif

if you join the forums at astrodienst.com there are lots of threads discussing personal charts and lots of people interpreting

packed fifth house! Would think you come across as more Leo too and with all the cancer placements would suggest theatre and creativity to me - are you an actor, artist anything like that?

Melanchollic
19-03-2008, 22:41
star-lover!! What a surprise! I wasn't being serious!! But thank you so much for going to the trouble!! You're very sweet. :heart:


packed fifth house! Would think you come across as more Leo too and with all the cancer placements would suggest theatre and creativity to me - are you an actor, artist anything like that?

I'm afraid I'm not an actor, though rather flamboyant in manner and dress, and tend to seek extreme novelty and adventure - martial arts, sky diving, motorcycles, and such.. yet also love to cook, spent time in a Rinzai Zen monastery, and tuck into Ficino, Dee, or Agrippa and any obscure alchemical texts I can get my hands on. I'm a bit of an enigma I reckon! ;)

:CL Cheers,

R
a
H

GoddessArtemis
20-03-2008, 02:31
Going back to JustLearningTarot's original question...I wonder if there's a "true" any one of the signs. Some people do seems to display the stereotypical characteristics of their sun sign, but more than anything...I've seen a lot of people display more the Ascendant/Moon combination of their charts. Of course, it helps if either of those placements is the same as the Sun sign, but for the most part, people are a mystery...and yet, not so complicated after all.

Also, I've seen some come across very strongly through their Venus sign, but I suppose that depends on the nature of the relationship and the part of their chart that it emphasizes or hits upon.

Did that make sense? It's still too early in the morning for me... :P

GA

star-lover
20-03-2008, 06:41
star-lover!! What a surprise! I wasn't being serious!! But thank you so much for going to the trouble!! You're very sweet. :heart:



I'm afraid I'm not an actor, though rather flamboyant in manner and dress, and tend to seek extreme novelty and adventure - martial arts, sky diving, motorcycles, and such.. yet also love to cook, spent time in a Rinzai Zen monastery, and tuck into Ficino, Dee, or Agrippa and any obscure alchemical texts I can get my hands on. I'm a bit of an enigma I reckon! ;)

:CL Cheers,

R
a
H

oh LOL! well youre welcome anyway was no trouble, i think love of cooking will be your moon in taurus too :)

star-lover
20-03-2008, 06:43
Going back to JustLearningTarot's original question...I wonder if there's a "true" any one of the signs. Some people do seems to display the stereotypical characteristics of their sun sign, but more than anything...I've seen a lot of people display more the Ascendant/Moon combination of their charts. Of course, it helps if either of those placements is the same as the Sun sign, but for the most part, people are a mystery...and yet, not so complicated after all.

Also, I've seen some come across very strongly through their Venus sign, but I suppose that depends on the nature of the relationship and the part of their chart that it emphasizes or hits upon.

Did that make sense? It's still too early in the morning for me... :P

GA

as far as i understand it the sun sign is our real core, and not everyone lives up to this as it requires some effort
from what i have read men tend to display a combination of their sun/mars signs and women of their moon/venus signs

its all so complicated though i agree :D

but yeah i agree the ascendant is a powerful player in all of this too

Starling
20-03-2008, 21:19
There is what is going on inside - The Sun, and what is going on outside - The Ascendant, and what is going on emotionally - The Moon. And all of them are true and it is possible that from the outside you can't see what The Sun or The Moon are up to.

There is how we express our love and artistic natures, which is Venus. And how we express our energy, our sexual natures and our aggression, which is Mars. Jupiter is our expansive side, and Saturn is how we see and express our duty and serious side.

The signs of the last three planets are generational, but their house placement and the aspects between them and the other planets have a lot to do with us as individuals.

It is complicated but all of us are pretty complicated. Sun sign astrology works because that inner self stuff is real. It just isn't the whole story.

star-lover
22-03-2008, 01:45
starling i read somewhere that there is always the X FACTOR and the horoscope is not the be all and end all

i also read that you can transcend your horoscope
not sure if thats true, guess it probably is to an extent

i think most people will know what in their chart is a very strong feature in their lives - but there are parts of my chart i just haven't lived up to either due to x y or z

Starling
22-03-2008, 09:51
I'm not sure what you mean by the X-factor. As for transcending your chart...

<grin> Look, the chart is very complicated. There really is no need to transcend it. There are always both higher and lower ways to experience your life and your chart. The things in your charts (and there are multiple variations of them when you include transits, progressions and directions), the things in your charts are your strengths. They are the things you are naturally good at. Why would you want to transcend your natural gifts and abilities?

If you are talking about the times when you have transits to those points in your chart, why not go with the flow? Yes, some of those transits are going to be hard times, but a lot of them are actually doors opening up. Why not go through them?

Take me. I've got a bunch of Earth in my chart. 5 planets in Taurus; 1 in Virgo. 4 planets in the 10th house (2 of which are Taurus planets) which means they have a lot in common with planets in Capricorn. That means I've got a practical streak a mile wide. Now I could try to transcend that. But why would I want to. Practical is good! <grin> I also get an artistic bent out of the mix and a sense of honor. I think I'll keep them too.

What I'm missing is Water. Not even one planet, but my Ascendant is in Cancer so I look a lot more emotional to the outside world than I feel. And my Moon in Aries is one of those 10th House planets and Conjunct both Mercury and the Sun and both of them are in the 10th house too. Certainly not an emotional Moon, but I think a deep one in many ways. The emotions are there, but they are hidden. I could try to transcend that and show my emotions more, but it would feel fake. I guess transcending that wouldn't work too well.

star-lover
23-03-2008, 06:20
thanks for those thoughts, very interesting
i think it was stephen arroyo in the introduction to his book astrology karma and transformation where i read it about transcending your chart
also something along the lines of sin is failure to try and achieve your potential

i cant check the context of it now because my books are in storage

Starling
24-03-2008, 22:29
I read that book many many years ago and gave it away during one of several long distance moves, so I can't check it either.

I liked the author and respect him, but I wonder how he was using the term "transcending". Obviously, I can't remember.

Personally, I'd try to figure out what is there in your chart. You might find a bunch of surprises.

Bernice
24-03-2008, 23:06
Star-lover:starling i read somewhere that there is always the X FACTOR and the horoscope is not the be all and end all

i also read that you can transcend your horoscope
not sure if thats true, guess it probably is to an extent
I think the 'trancendance' probably means that a person can live at the highest potential of their chart.

To truly transcend your horoscope you would have to 'lose' yourself, your personality identity. In which case the factors of your horoscope would then depict the external conditions of your life, not your responses to it. But bear in mind that to accomplish this, you would use all the facets of your personality and your emotions etc. to rein & direct them them under your higher consciousness. Not easy, I wouldn't think! :)

Bee