Alison Cross
Does anyone have experience of working with TAT's or other projective technique that could tell us how these officially accepted methods compare/contrast with using the 22 images of the Major Arcana?
AX
AX
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Tarot images/projective technique
The crowned one
The Rorschach and Thematic Apperception Test (TAT) are different in that the cards are rather ambiguous. These tests are used to gain information on the subject. The 22 major arcana are archetypes and should invoke a "set response" as they are universal in their imagery( in theory) in all peoples when looked at ONE card at a time. I suppose depending how much they vary off the "set response" could be used as a tool or starting place to locate a concern in the person studying the card.."Why do I see this"or "why does it evoke this thought" ...that sort of thing.
Alison Cross
TCO - do you think that if we take the Majors and their traditional meanings we can use this as a benchmark to check on a client to see whether there are any themes emerging in their responses, just as you would with TATs?
One of the concerns about the Rorschach Ink Blots (sorry if the spelling is off, can't be fagged finding a book to check it right now!) is that the therapist interprets the client responses to the blots through their own filters and experiences.
I am of the opinion that *because* the Majors have a history of being interpreted in particular ways that using them as a sort of TAT might be feasible. If we all related to the Majors in totally unique ways, then this would rule them out for being used in this way.
It's only my opinion though - what do you think? Are we barking up the wrong tree - ought we not to be looking at finding a legit use for the artwork as a projective technique and focus instead on something else?
AX
One of the concerns about the Rorschach Ink Blots (sorry if the spelling is off, can't be fagged finding a book to check it right now!) is that the therapist interprets the client responses to the blots through their own filters and experiences.
I am of the opinion that *because* the Majors have a history of being interpreted in particular ways that using them as a sort of TAT might be feasible. If we all related to the Majors in totally unique ways, then this would rule them out for being used in this way.
It's only my opinion though - what do you think? Are we barking up the wrong tree - ought we not to be looking at finding a legit use for the artwork as a projective technique and focus instead on something else?
AX
Bernice
Alison Cross said:
I'm inclined to go along with Alisons suggestion. The 'traditional' meanings of the tarot cards vary from person to person, depending on the source they're using. After all, Rider Waite is only one approach. Maybe if the source is named..... ?
Bee
It's only my opinion though - what do you think? Are we barking up the wrong tree - ought we not to be looking at finding a legit use for the artwork as a projective technique and focus instead on something else?
I'm inclined to go along with Alisons suggestion. The 'traditional' meanings of the tarot cards vary from person to person, depending on the source they're using. After all, Rider Waite is only one approach. Maybe if the source is named..... ?
Bee
The crowned one
Alison Cross said:TCO - do you think that if we take the Majors and their traditional meanings we can use this as a benchmark to check on a client to see whether there are any themes emerging in their responses, just as you would with TATs?
Yes I think we could by incorporating the years of legwork already available to us. ( majors only with some modifications...it would be a therapeutic tarot deck) We would be working on a psychodynamic Assessment in this way.
Alison Cross said:One of the concerns about the Rorschach Ink Blots (sorry if the spelling is off, can't be fagged finding a book to check it right now!) is that the therapist interprets the client responses to the blots through their own filters and experiences.
This is not necessarily true anymore. We have a a standardized protocol now, as do the tarot cards in many peoples minds. In this specific case we would use those standard idea's. If they are different between cultures, well then they are not really achtypical images. (cultural differences could easily be Incorporated, but this is just tossing idea's out right now.. no details just frame works)
Alison Cross said:I am of the opinion that *because* the Majors have a history of being interpreted in particular ways that using them as a sort of TAT might be feasible. If we all related to the Majors in totally unique ways, then this would rule them out for being used in this way.
I agree.
This is just one of many uses for the cards in a therapeutic setting, this would be a sort of foundation type of idea, a generalization to build or work from. I would not focus on it but incorporate it into....Alison Cross said:It's only my opinion though - what do you think? Are we barking up the wrong tree - ought we not to be looking at finding a legit use for the artwork as a projective technique and focus instead on something else?
AX
Teheuti
It has already been used professionally as a legitimate projective technique in many situations—not all of which are for psychological purposes specifically. For instance, here's an article on how tarot cards have been used to help medical doctors talk about the influence of marketing in their disease treatment decision-making processes:Alison Cross said:ought we not to be looking at finding a legit use for the artwork as a projective technique and focus instead of something else?
http://www.qrca.org/displaycommon.cfm?an=1&subarticlenbr=121
BTW, notice how carefully the author separates this use (twice) from "tarot readings."
Mary
Alison Cross
Mary - I found the original study fascinating! I think that what Steve Richardson is driving at when he points out twice here that the Tarot cards aren't used 'as actual tarot cards for readings' is that the sitter is doing all the talking without a Reader/interviewer doing any interpreting or making the story.
Is this the fundemental difference between using the Tarot cards in a Tarot session and using the Tarot cards in a clinical setting?
Does it take the 'woo-woo' out of the Tarot and strip it back to its ability to function as a set of images and titles? Or, is it more about stripping the 'woo-woo' away from the *Reader* and not the cards themselves?
How do you feel about using the images in a less ritualistic way (ie without the music, incense, silk squares and reading cloths? Not for doing Tarot readings, but for using Tarot in a therapist's sling backs?
AX
Is this the fundemental difference between using the Tarot cards in a Tarot session and using the Tarot cards in a clinical setting?
Does it take the 'woo-woo' out of the Tarot and strip it back to its ability to function as a set of images and titles? Or, is it more about stripping the 'woo-woo' away from the *Reader* and not the cards themselves?
How do you feel about using the images in a less ritualistic way (ie without the music, incense, silk squares and reading cloths? Not for doing Tarot readings, but for using Tarot in a therapist's sling backs?
AX
Teheuti
Re: the research with doctors mentioned above:
I'm pretty minimalist in my tarot set-up anyway.
Mary
Alison - I find it funny because some of my tarot readings are exactly like that. It's just one end of the spectrum of what I do.Alison Cross said:I think that what Steve Richardson is driving at when he points out twice here that the Tarot cards aren't used 'as actual tarot cards for readings' is that the sitter is doing all the talking without a Reader/interviewer doing any interpreting or making the story.
Not in my readings, although I usually interact and offer some suggestions and comments on the cards. I also usually comment on the patterns and possibilities I see emerging. But, sometimes all I do is ask enough open-ended questions to keep the querent going.Is this the fundemental difference between using the Tarot cards in a Tarot session and using the Tarot cards in a clinical setting?
If I was a therapist using tarot I wouldn't add anything to my usual therapeutic environment except maybe a plain reading cloth, which I find helps focus the area of the reading - like the boundaries of a sand-tray do.Does it take the 'woo-woo' out of the Tarot and strip it back to its ability to function as a set of images and titles? Or, is it more about stripping the 'woo-woo' away from the *Reader* and not the cards themselves?
I'm pretty minimalist in my tarot set-up anyway.
Mary
FMTarotstudy
Using the minors may also be very helpful
Hello everyone (just recently joined the forum),
In the past couple of years I have begun to do "face up" readings for querents in which I encourage them to take as much time as possible to look through the deck (both Majors and Minors) and select any number of cards they have any strong feelings towards. I then ask them to describe their thoughts or feelings towards those cards (basically projection).
The fascinating thing I have found are the rich responses the querents give to the minors they select. Both my querents and I have come to intriguing insight when considering which court cards they choose (and comparing those to the ones they do not choose, potentially offering clues to existing object relations or responses to masculine and feminine archetypes); whether they have a positive, negative, or conflicted response to an ace; or how they describe their feelings and thoughts to ambiguous images like the 6 of Swords or the 4 of Cups.
Does anybody else do "face up" readings? And if so, do you include the minors?
Forrest
Hello everyone (just recently joined the forum),
In the past couple of years I have begun to do "face up" readings for querents in which I encourage them to take as much time as possible to look through the deck (both Majors and Minors) and select any number of cards they have any strong feelings towards. I then ask them to describe their thoughts or feelings towards those cards (basically projection).
The fascinating thing I have found are the rich responses the querents give to the minors they select. Both my querents and I have come to intriguing insight when considering which court cards they choose (and comparing those to the ones they do not choose, potentially offering clues to existing object relations or responses to masculine and feminine archetypes); whether they have a positive, negative, or conflicted response to an ace; or how they describe their feelings and thoughts to ambiguous images like the 6 of Swords or the 4 of Cups.
Does anybody else do "face up" readings? And if so, do you include the minors?
Forrest
Teheuti
Hello Forrest, welcome to the tarotforum. I do this a lot when teaching classes but rarely as a one-on-one reading format with a querent. That said, at the end of most readings I have them select cards, all from the reading itself, in what I call "The Breakthrough Process." They pick one to three cards that represent the biggest problems, blocks or obstacles. Then they pick a card for each of these to show them breaking through the problem. And, finally, a card for the qualities they most want to develop in themselves. For each card they describe why and I write down what their own words. Sometimes, though rarely, they have to go beyond the spread to the whole deck to find an appropriate card. This is often the most significant part of the reading.FMTarotstudy said:Does anybody else do "face up" readings? And if so, do you include the minors?
This truly is a powerful process. It's great that you do it as a regular process with others.
Mary
