View Full Version : William G. Gray's Qabalah
Has anyone read "Qabalistic Concepts" by William G. Gray?
He proposes a completely different system of assigning Trumps to Paths on the Tree of Life. I think it's pretty bold of him, flying in the face of tradition like he does. I'd like to see what you guys think of his system.
It has been quite a few years since I have read Gray's Concepts of Qabalah, and would have to revise it before properly commenting.
In a nutshell, I found the book somewhat wanting - though I do think it ought to be considered with his other works on his concept of the Grail.
Magician/author Phillip Cooper's newest book was published in November by Weiser, entitled "Esoteric Magic and the Cabalah." I am not a 'fan' of Cooper, but thought this was an interesting, accessible book. Cooper makes his case for the Wm Gray assignments. If Cooper's book picks up any steam in the magickal world, there might be a resurgent interest in these assignments. I did not go deeply into them, but on the surface, some of the assignments made sense to me. I hope to spend some more time with this and probably will since I just received a copy of "The Talking Tree" yesterday.
I think it is important to take a fresh approach here, regarding the assignments, and consider any and all. Perhaps in the end, one would return to the GD system, but if so, it would by choice and not because everyone else in the neighborhood was doing it.
Spirituality is a personal endeavor, but to a point. The residual matter of the research of those before us, I have read, is still intact and accessible to all -- on higher planes. All you need in an Akasha Library card!
As I said, the Cooper book is mostly very good, IMHO. I liked it and recommended to a friend who is fairly new to the Qabalah, and she liked it also. It's very clear, matter of fact, and has a nice ritual for scrying the paths. Cooper has you take the pips of whatever spheres you are working (say, for instance, Hod (8) and Netzach (7)) and place those on the table, all the 7s and 8s, according to the magical directions (which he also describes in the book: Swords - East, Wands - South, Cups - West, Pentacles - North) Also one takes the corresponding pathworking arcana card (according to the Gray method, THE WHEEL OF FORTUNE, and GD assignment, TEMPERANCE) and places that in the center of the altar/table. Say the magic word and the inquirer will enter a realm where in which s/he blends all that's on the table and gains insight. It really is a more interesting ritual than I might be portraying here.
According to Cooper, Gray assignments are the only ones that make sense. While I'm not sure of that, I would like to check these assignments out myself.
I had a funny thought...wouldn't it be funny to learn that Gray used the Waite deck? He was very much into his own thing and assigned the paths differently than the Golden Dawn, and Waite was a member of that magical group and no doubt poured a lot of Dawn-ism into the imagery.
I looked thru the Gray books I have an saw no Tarot images, and think it is highly unlikely, but I'd still be curious to know what Gray himself used.
Anybody know?
I've just realised that Qabalistic Concepts: Living the Tree is a 1997, and thus newer, book than my far older Concepts of the Qabalah. Does anyone know if this newer book is a reprint with a different title of his earlier one(s)?
Hi JMD...notice I got your name correct this time?
Regarding your question on the Gray Qabalah book, I note that on the back side of the title page, there is a note that this newer edition "Qabalistic Concepts" (1997) is a revised edition of the 1984 "Concepts of the Qabalah." However, it does not state what was changed. I thought it might be a new Introduction or something, but if that is so, it isn't evident.
If nobody clarifies this before, I will post what I find out from a message I planted in a Wm. Gray group, that is...if anybody responds.
I'll let you know.
Thanks
OM
I've been thinking about this issue a bit. Here are some random ideas that spring to the top of my head. Chew on 'em and react if you wish:
* Assignments are not Gospel or Law. They are speculation.
* The thing to remember about Kabalah is that it's a template to be superimposed over one's own Religious system, not a religion in itself. Therefore, it is perfectly reasonable to think that a non-GD interpretation is valid.
* Gray's system might not be correct, but it has inspired me to try digging more deeply into the GD associations. Now, more than ever, I want to learn more about the "correct" assignments.
* What if Gray is the most correct? Would any of us be willing to put thousands more hours into unlearning the system with which we are familiar? Is it worth putting that much more effort into a system which doesn't seem to have a lot of popular support?
As of now, I'm leaning toward simply treating Gray's ideas as objects of academic interest and retaining my old views. However, that tricky bastard has made me think. He's inspired me to ask myself just how much stock I'm willing to put into the old ways. That's teaching if I ever saw it.
Thanks SlyR...yes, thoughtful. I am at a point of rethinking them myself, which is why I posted that.
I suspect the assignments are like the Truth, and each of us must find our own way there. You are right (or we agree), the assignments are not gospel. What causes me to lose sleep, though, is that many decent occultists seem to favor the GD system, and the Gray method is like a specialty group.
Here's a thought...since the Tree is truly a living organism, why can't the assignments actually CHANGE due to circumstances and development? Perhaps in the higher spheres of the Tree. they do all the time, and there is just no need to come back down here and document it, since it might have changed again on a return visit? It's all the same 'stuff,' isn't it? Everything flowing in the Tree is found in Kether, or Malkuth.
I'm curious which deck Gray himself used and have posted that question in a Gray group.
I agree, at a point, reevaluating the paths would be most useful!
I even think a good idea would be to sign in for shock therapy, just enough to forget everything I know about the assignments, but of course, not enough so I forget what the cards are all about, and then place the cards the way I see them fitting on the paths. I did notice that some of Gray's assignments jumped out at me, as in made a whole lot of sense. I don't recall which ones, but will check it out again and see.
That Gray is a bit obscure in Qabalah circles is not important to me, because sometimes the crowd follows the wrong messenger. And besides, I don't think sound occult knowledge can be based on popularity!
Thanks.
OM
AHA! Oh wait, Crowley already took that title...sorry.
I just got a response from someone in the Gray group, a former student of Gray's. He told me Gray liked working with the Waite-Ryder deck! I KNEW IT! The book, "The Talking Tree," uses that deck for analysis. This student also told me when he worked with Gray, Gray insisted he start with blank cards, as described in the Ritual book.
So now I really need to sit down with all of this and sort it out. The Waite concepts, as we all know, are based on the Golden Dawn, yet Gray himself devised a new set of connections based on his own thinking. Still, the images on the cards are assigned astrologically, and that is important in all Qabalah work (except for that one person who doesn't use it, and is going to counter post me. LOL!) I find the astrological assignments mostly decent with the deck, or at least most of them. THE CHARIOT I never see as Cancer, unless the charioteer has the crabs or something. Hard to tell with that armour on. And THE MOON and Pisces, well, I suppose...But most of the others seem pretty okay to me.
I have to sit down with this information and see what's up.
If I can figure out how to do "it", I could post an attachment, a chart I made of the Gray path assignments on the Tree. I made it in CorelDraw, but imported it into a Word file. Let me see if I can figure this out. If so, I will post it for all of you, those who do not have access to a Gray book.
DMJ - I got an answer to your question about the differences, and I got them from the man who owns the rights to the Gray material.
He told me that the earlier version was incorporated in a series, a trilogy, if you will, that Gray called the Three Pillar Foundation series. Weiser, according to my source, wanted just the one title out of the series, the Qabala Concepts, and mostly changed the name and if they made any other changes, it was completely superficial. Weiser could then offer this book apart from the series.
My source said:
"This [the breaking out of the one title by Weiser] is however most unfortunate since William Gray intended the first three volumes of the Series to represent the three Pillars of the Tree of Life, i.e. "Western Inner Workings" being the Right Pillar or "Orphic Path"; "Concepts of Kabbalah" the Left Pillar or "Hermetic Path"; and "The Sangreal Sacrament" being the Middle Pillar conjoining the outer Pillars in the "Mystic Way." He intended these books to be studied and worked in conjunction. He also intended the four volumes to be an expression of the Ineffable Name (YHVH), with the last title in the Series, "Sangreal Ceremonies and Rituals," as the last letter of the Great Name expressed in word and deed in this realm of existence."
That is impressive. Gray was quite the scholar. All the expertise of Crowley without the wanton blasphemy.
Unfortunately, I'm still struggling with my adamant resistance to change.
I'm just surveying the paths superficially, and was hoping to provide an attachment for those without access to the Gray material, a chart of his assignments. But I don't have the proper format, and a full page document would be a rather large file.
Here is a discussion of the paths by Donald Tyson. For what it's worth...I think his conclusion is the different path assignments are each right, and wrong at the same time. I'm not familiar with Tyson's writing but am guessing he supports the GD assignments.
http://www.dontyson.150m.com/answer9.html
Superficially at least the Gray assignments lay down nicely. Going up the Middle Pillar we have THE MOON between Malkuth and Yesod, THE SUN between Yesod and Tiphareth, and THE STAR between Tiph and Kether. That's a nice, neat package, all celestial in order from the Moon to the Stars. This is a synopsis of our sources of light, the reflected light of the moon first, then our central source, the sun, and then beyond, the stars. The stars are even more important to us for light on a new moon.
The left pillar is THE FOOL between Malkuth and Hod, THE DEVIL bewteen Hod and Geburah, DEATH between Geburah and Binah, and THE HERMIT between Binah and Kether.
The right pillar is THE WORLD from Malkuth to Netzach, EMPRESS from Netzach to Chesed, EMPEROR from Chesed to Chokmah, and HIEROPHANT between Chokmah and Kether.
They do seem more balanced up the pillars, or at least in more logical pairs, not that it matters. I always found it odd with the GD assignments that since there is so much balance in the Tree, that the cards did not maintain that same sense of balance.
I won't complete the chart at this time, but will see if I can find that chart somewhere online so others can see, in the event we actually discuss the paths, the logic or absence of, etc.
lelandra
07-03-2005, 08:11
The Don Tyson page can no longer be found.
But I have made a page on this topic at my site.
http://www.lelandra.com/tarotbook/englishqabalah.htm
The English Qabalah of W.G. Gray
Lelandra
(Joan Cole)
fyreflye
07-03-2005, 10:49
R J Stewart was a student of Gray's and both of his tarots are based on Gray's system. If you can find either of Stewart's OP trade paperback companion books to the Merlin Tarot (The Merlin Tarot or, better The Complete Merlin Tarot) you'll have a key to the only practical application of Gray's Qabalistic concepts to the tarot that I know of.
lelandra
08-03-2005, 13:13
I also have completed a page on how the Merlin Tarot implements this Qabalah
http://www.lelandra.com/tarotbook/rjspart1.htm
Joan Cole
fyreflye
08-03-2005, 15:14
I also have completed a page on how the Merlin Tarot implements this Qabalah
http://www.lelandra.com/tarotbook/rjspart1.htm
Thanks for this! I've had your site bookmarked for ages but never looked closely enough to notice this page :confused: Now I'll have to see what other goodies I've missed.
I also ran across the Merlin early in my resurgence of interest in tarot and learned the Gray system before the standard one. Since I've never found the evidence for a Tree of Life/tarot connection particularly compelling I've never felt any need to choose between the systems. But I do agree with your comments about the gravity of R J's work; seriousness of any kind is rare in the commercial product that tarot has become. The Merlin is never discussed here and the Dreampower only rarely. R J's reluctance to produce a tarot with fully illustrated pips has cost him dearly. I do wish more AT members appreciated his work the way you do.
lelandra
08-03-2005, 22:40
Well, I just did the Merlin page this weekend. I've had the notes in pen and paper form for ages, but decided they needed to be webbed now. I didn't mention it until I had run it by RJS and got the form of credits that he wanted on the page (he's pretty sensitive to copyright due to a nasty plagiarism incident that happened to him.)
I go back and forth as to whether a tree is needed. I'm pretty much sold on the historical authenticity argument that the correspondence was only added since the 18th century (though as a model agnostic, I'm happy to change my mind should actual evidence to the contrary emerge). I do think that memorizing the GD or Levi tree makes things much too complicated, because they have too many logical conflicts with the kind of energy that the two sephiroth are supposed to be mediating. Chariot as Cancer? Way too much rationalization to make that work for me... But a tree whose logic complements traditional iconology ... that might work.
As to prophets being unappreciated in their own time :) I think that the Tarot market (which is miniscule in itself) does reward cosmic foo-foo and other assorted kinds of fluffiness. But that is just a reflection of the overall culture we live in.
Lelandra
(Joan Cole)
fyreflye
08-03-2005, 23:48
I do think that memorizing the GD or Levi tree makes things much too complicated, because they have too many logical conflicts with the kind of energy that the two sephiroth are supposed to be mediating. Chariot as Cancer? Way too much rationalization to make that work for me...
To a Cancer like myself the absurdity of that particular association is all too evident ;)
In terms of placing the Atouts on the various so-called 'paths', it may indeed be very likely that it arises from the 19th century.
If, however, there is any more intrinsic connection between the Atouts and the letters of the Hebrew alphabet (as I tend to think Mark Filipas's work indicates), then we have a very early correlation indeed - though not one which makes it to the Tree: earlier versions of the Tree did not have 22 'paths', but none, or sixteen (as examples).
Likewise, though I do not accept the GD version for myself, the correlations which results (such as Cancer and the Chariot) can be worked with in different ways. The first, a memorisation of what appears rationalisations of misfits, certainly makes things complicated - and a very Da'at like experience.
The second, however, is to develop an understanding of the various suggested correlations. In that case, sense - light - emerges as to what is correlated and why.
As I said, however, I personally do not favour this particular system that has, for some quirks of historical impulse, become the dominant view in published books.
hi my 1st post here....I use the dreampower and merlin (though am very much a beginner with both) ...I also do Stewart's "magic"....and have attended workshops with the man....
SO Gray uses a new attribution ..well if I might mention a few things that havent been mentioned......
firstly the usual attributions (pretty much all but Gray's) are due to numbers.....take the classic Golden dawn one....the fool goes upon path 11...as it is card0....thus we take card=11+number of card....thus we can see Devil goes upon path 24.....etc etc....lets quote Gray himself on this:
"All the mystic muddle of tentative tarot and other uneccssary attributions came from the conclusions of those who failed to grasp, or deliberatly sought to obscure the significance of the paths. They are simply circuit for the energies arising from or through the sephiroth concerned. The only purpose for their numbers is to indicate the type and location of the enrgy in question. The real importance of the paths is their functiion and nature. If accuratre symbology can be found for this, well and good. Otherwise the issue becomes hopeless and confused" ---william G Gray (the ladder of the lights)
Stewart asserts that the Golden dawn system was given to beginners.....as aprt of their policy to root out the stupid(as was the way of doing things among the 19th century occult community)...later on they were given an alternative......
Now Gray's isnt "rigth" per se....there is no fixed attribution.....it as has been said just makes more "sense"...it relies upon meanings and not numbers....
Grays books (the previous mentioned) form the basis of Gray's "Occult" worldwide school...a school of like minded folk....called "Sangreal Solidality"...its not a rigid school...Gray merely created sign posts...its upto the school to lay the road and drive the car......So on a practical level...we can see Gray's attributioion has indeed NOT been universally accepted.....but it IS used..world wide.....Gray's book "Magical rhythm mehtods" is a classic in ceremonial magic..and uses gray's attribution.....
On another note...yes indeed he was an interesting man..... http://www.ignotuspress.com/practical.html Ignotus Press publish the well worth reading Biography of Bill Gray......well worth reading for any user of magic....be you a pagan or a magician or whatever......
wonderful website on the dreampower deck/merlin deck btw......I plan to do somewthing like this myself...but on a larger scale.....I shall read through this with glee and make comments if thats ok.......I think I spotted a mistake already..ha....
must start work though
on another note Caitlin and John matthews' book "walkers between worlds" list Gray's attributes within its pages
Gray's attributres are not universally known or accepted...but thsi is mainly due toALesteir Crowley...many still seem him as the fount of all knowledge.....ha so untrue...too many books merely copy other books as well...
"the height of knowledge is to know nothing" ----CRC
I also have completed a page on how the Merlin Tarot implements this Qabalah
http://www.lelandra.com/tarotbook/rjspart1.htm
Joan Cole
dang.,..I love this website...thanks!!!!..I am humbled....
may I suggest you should get a hold of the previously mentiooned book "the talking tree" by WG Gray (it has another title due to a reprint as well..I forget)...which is one of the most exhaustive studies of the paths.....which of course includes tarot.....
Gray also has a book called Sangreal Tarot...I havent read....I assume this is worth getting a hold of too....anyone know what this book is like???
thnaks....
--hoomer
AHA! Oh wait, Crowley already took that title...sorry.
I just got a response from someone in the Gray group, a former student of Gray's. He told me Gray liked working with the Waite-Ryder deck! I KNEW IT! The book, "The Talking Tree," uses that deck for analysis. This student also told me when he worked with Gray, Gray insisted he start with blank cards, as described in the Ritual book.
So now I really need to sit down with all of this and sort it out. The Waite concepts, as we all know, are based on the Golden Dawn, yet Gray himself devised a new set of connections based on his own thinking. Still, the images on the cards are assigned astrologically, and that is important in all Qabalah work (except for that one person who doesn't use it, and is going to counter post me. LOL!) I find the astrological assignments mostly decent with the deck, or at least most of them. THE CHARIOT I never see as Cancer, unless the charioteer has the crabs or something. Hard to tell with that armour on. And THE MOON and Pisces, well, I suppose...But most of the others seem pretty okay to me.
I have to sit down with this information and see what's up.
If I can figure out how to do "it", I could post an attachment, a chart I made of the Gray path assignments on the Tree. I made it in CorelDraw, but imported it into a Word file. Let me see if I can figure this out. If so, I will post it for all of you, those who do not have access to a Gray book.
_The Talking Tree_ does indeed use RWS. I've always found Gray's very useful in my studies. I have most of his stuff in HB.
Useful info with less ego & hyperbole than Crowley.
Mac22
Lleminawc
09-11-2008, 02:39
R J Stewart was a student of Gray's and both of his tarots are based on Gray's system. If you can find either of Stewart's OP trade paperback companion books to the Merlin Tarot (The Merlin Tarot or, better The Complete Merlin Tarot) you'll have a key to the only practical application of Gray's Qabalistic concepts to the tarot that I know of.
RJS has another book The Miracle Tree: Demystifying the Qabalah where he gives this system, but without attributing it to Gray by name. Rather, he claims that this is the original pattern "that was taught to initiates who saw past the 'blind' of the 19th century system, which was intentionally scrambled to test students".
EDIT: just noticed this book is actually referenced on Lelandra's website.
A few years on......... just came across this thread.
I have three of Grays' books, The Ladder of Lights, Growing the Tree Within, and Magical Ritual Methods.
I much prefer this approach to that of the G.D., however it seems that the majority of students, practitioners, and lodges tend to dismiss this system out of hand. They mainly follow the G.D/RWS teachings, like sheep.
That said, I put aside my ToL studies some years ago.
Overall, I'm inclined to agree with SlyR (post 7):
http://www.tarotforum.net/showpost.php?p=104566&postcount=7
Bee :)
I was a student of DF [Dion Fortune] & Gray at the same time I was studying GD. I was also fortunate to have Regardie as a pen pal at the time. :D
I think the cross pollination was a very GOOD thing!
Mac22
Regardie, a pen-pal?
Not gonna name-drop........ you can't tempt me!
I was rather fond of Butler as well...
Bee :)
Regardie, a pen-pal?
Not gonna name-drop........ you can't tempt me!
I was rather fond of Butler as well...
Bee :)
I only know Butler by his fine books... :)
mac22
I'm an advocate for cross pollination, on an individual basis :) We are agreed!
But group endeavours necessitate that all members be of one mind. Mavericks destroy the unity :bugeyed:.
Bee :)
I'm an adovate for cross pollination, on an individual basis :) We are agreed!
But group endeavours necessitate that all members be of one mind. Mavericks destroy the unity :bugeyed:.
Bee :)
I'd agree... but it took me years to find working groups -- long before the Internet.
mac22
Curtis Penfold
28-11-2009, 04:26
I also have completed a page on how the Merlin Tarot implements this Qabalah
http://www.lelandra.com/tarotbook/rjspart1.htm
Joan Cole
I'm not a scholar. I've tried to study the Tree of Life, but I find the whole thing kind of complicated. When I saw how the Golden Dawn treated the cards in relation to the Tree of Life, I just got confused. It seemed like pointless numerology. (Although I recognize that numerology is a big part of Kabbalah).
However, being a poet, this tree of life above just makes sense when it comes to the cards. Separating the cards into the Moon, the Sun, and the Star is beautiful. The idea just connects.
I will soon have The Merlin Tarot (Amazon seller) and will see how these cards fit on the Tree (image-wise) as opposed to the Rider-Waite deck.
I'm really pleased that lelandras' web pages are still there.
Bee :)
The deck has arrived!
It's the slipcase with Journal, Handbook and Cards. All in *very good* condition. As I also have books by William Gray, I'm pleased that this set extends Grays' approach to the Tree of Life.
Bee :)
A little more delving in preparation of a 'trial' pathwork and I discover that I'm familiar with this assignment of the trumps & paths!
So after sorting through old (some very old) 'Tree' notes and diagrams I find that I've even done some work on this arrangment. It all came flooding back......
However my old notes included the popular hebrew path names/numbers, and the tarot deck used was a 'semi-Rider-Waite one'. Rather a mixed bag to have worked with :bugeyed:. But as there were 'results', it goes to prove that the Tree is just a structure, or as SlyR says, "The thing to remember about Kabalah is that it's a template to be superimposed over one's own Religious system, not a religion in itself. Therefore, it is perfectly reasonable to think that a non-GD interpretation is valid.". Although I wouldn't call the Tree a *religion*.
......
I'll have a go at the English Alphabet correspondences now. Has ayone else incorporated this?
Bee :)