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queriamas814
16-05-2008, 19:58
does neptune and pluto in the following aspects indicate an individual with strong inclinations towards substance abuse and drug addiction?

Sun Conjunction Neptune 0.11 471
Sun Sextile Pluto 1.60 110
Moon Conjunction Mars 1.14 158
Moon Sextile Uranus 2.01 119
Mercury Conjunction Venus 4.50 310
Mars Square Saturn 5.05 -15
Mars Sextile Uranus 0.47 145
Jupiter Conjunction Uranus 7.37 76
Saturn Conjunction Pluto 2.57 141
Neptune Sextile Pluto 2.11 27

star-lover
18-05-2008, 01:22
i don't think so except possibly the first aspect

i would look for squares and oppositions to neptune from personal planets but even then they might not indicate this but something else that those energies involved have been channelled into

google known drug addicts and see if you find any repeating patterns

checked some but will have a look later when i have time

janis joplin - moon square neptune
pete doherty - sun square neptune
jim morrison - mercury square neptune
billie holiday - moon opposite neptune

queriamas814
18-05-2008, 07:13
thats interesting because this person has had a very long drug history of experimentation and addiction to opiates

thats funny you mention looking up famous people with addictions because i did that myself with john frusciante who has a preponderance of neputunian influence and he was a heroin addict for years

star-lover
18-05-2008, 07:26
can you put their chart up?

queriamas814
18-05-2008, 09:17
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v142/warmscars/kpo.jpg

however his chart is defaulted to a noon birth time because i dont have his real one

star-lover
18-05-2008, 09:56
thank you
the only thing is the sun conjunct neptune that i can see
using noon time is popular, but lots use sunrise
that would make moon in the 12th - a neptunian thing i guess
a few addicts/experimenters at least i've seen uranus playing a part, perhaps that is worth some research too

i was looking at george best the british famous footballer who was a chronic alcoholic he had benign neptune aspects in his chart

queriamas814
20-05-2008, 18:57
whats interesting about this indvidual is he is someone who i would say is addicted to drugs in the sense he is addicted to the MIND EXPANSIVE qualities and ESCAPISM of drugs but has never been honest to god PHYSIOLOGICALLY addicted, i.e. has gone through painful physical withdrawals, was physically dependent, on drugs. the drug use has been a constant thing in his life for at least a decade and there is no immediate plan to stop however, i get the sense that this drug thing will evolve into spiritual curiosity as he ages.

i am not very familiar with predictive astrology and fated aspects. does my feeling have any astrological backing?

lunalafey
21-05-2008, 07:07
I think that before looking for aspects that indicate drug addiction, that one would want to take a look at the chart from the perspective of mental/emotional stability. People are not drawn to drugs for the drug itself, but as a way of getting away from the mental & emotional state of being.
People will self-medicate with what ever they can find. Many who have used drugs to escape and have cleaned themselves up usually turn to some other form of 'addiction' be it sex, religion or what ever helps them to cope.

serenaserendipity
27-05-2008, 16:48
I just spent time with a friend of mine who is a recovered heroin addict==
he was a bigtime addict who almost died... He is a millionaire by inheritence so it was very difficult for him to have any built in measures of limit to what he was doing... he was very selfdestructive.

In his chart, he has Neptune OPPOSITION his venus and mercury, and pluto opposition his moon.


Does that help?

Sincerely,

S.

Minderwiz
28-05-2008, 06:13
I think we have to be very careful at inferring drug abuse from aspects or indeed most astrological phenomena. Of the aspects listed at the start of the thread, only the Moon conjunct Neptune might (and I mean might) be relevant to the issue. However as the chart has no confirmed birth time it is very possible that the aspect does not exist in reality - indeed that is the most likely situation.

Of the remaining aspects, everyone in the world born that day will share them. If we allow an orb of say 4 degrees for our aspects (half what most texts advise), everyone in the world born within eight days will share them. The outer planet aspects can be safely ignored in terms of an person specific conclusion. One of the big problems with medical astrology is that we might well recognise astrological signatures of particular ailments presented, but what we can't know is the number of people with the same astrological signature that don't have and never will have these ailments. We might get round this by using the word 'potential' to contract the ailment but that doesn't really get us much further.

If aspects alone were indicators of drug abuse we would have to conclude that several million people born on that day are all drug addicts. Clearly that is extremely unlikely to say the least.

If we are going to apply Astrology to the situation we really need more information. An exact birth time so that we have accurate house positions would be a start. Houses and Signs are more important than aspects as a general rule, aspects modify the judgment based on the other two. Aspects that are partile (same degree) are stronger indicators than aspects of 2 or 3 degrees, and need to be coupled with several other factors.

Some overall assessment of temperament needs to be made (similar to luna's suggestion about emotional and mental stability) and this would be dominant in any assessment of susceptibility to drug abuse.

I've not mentioned transits, progressions and returns but thse too could shed some light on the situation. At best though, I think they might warn of possible dangers, one of which is drug abuse.

I certainly would not wish to diagnose drug abuse from a chart alone - it's too dangerous an exercise. If the problem is known, a chart might well help to determine treatment but probably an additional decumbiture chart would be necessary to give more insight into the illness. Astrology can help after the event but I don't think we can rely on it as some sort of screening service.

Edited to add:

I don't think that it is the type of aspect that is important but the exactness and I think I would also expect applying rather than separating aspects. Trines might actually be worse in such charts (allowing for other factors). I've seen a number of cancer charts with Jupiter trines - excessive growth which easily spreads to other areas of life. Again, sign and house are vital pieces of information to 'see' such links (following medical diagnosis).

star-lover
29-05-2008, 07:29
i agree with what you say minder
BUT
we are taught correspondences between planets and life

neptune and drugs is one of them
of course neptune is other things too
but drugs fall into the neptune part
thats why i posted

Bernice
29-05-2008, 09:12
Yes, it seems that neptune can sometimes apply to drugs. But I believe it's more 'escapism', and drugs come under that umbrella.

Just my findings...

Bee

serenaserendipity
29-05-2008, 16:31
minderwiz--

thank you for your post. i completely agree because free will is the determinate factor, the astrology only speaks of tendancies which can be expressed in numerous ways.

what you said about jupiter-cancer trines really interests me. can you expound upon this a bit?

s.

Minderwiz
31-05-2008, 04:08
star-lover,

Yes, many astrologers do see Neptune as signifying (or more technically, ruling) drugs and drug addiction. BUT, as you recognise, this is not the only thing that Neptune is associated with - others that have been advanced are;

dreams, inspiration, imagination, fantasy, sleep, the spiritual, the emphemeral, the obscure or hidden and musical ability.

Now, if we accept some or all of these then we have an issue of deciding which particular 'aspect' of Neptune we are looking at when reading a chart. Indeed this is an issue with any planet unless there is a clear context to to the interpretation such as a horary question.

It is dangerous to see Neptune in a chart and read that as only signifying drugs in some way. It is much more likely to be signifying something else.

serenaserendipity,

The reading of Jupiter in this way must be in the context of a decumbiture chart or a horary chart or an event chart where cancer is known or suspected. In the cases that I have met cancer has already been diagnosed and the chart relates to a horary question relating to the disease.

Cancer is an uncontrolled growth - and Jupiter is the planet of growth and expansion.

In one particular case of cancer the chart had Mercury in Pisces as ruler of the sixth house, and therefore the significator of the illness. Mercury was trine to Jupiter in Cancer in the sixth house. Mercury in Pisces is in both fall and detriment so the disease was particularly debilitating. Jupiter is exalted in Cancer so we have a very strong Jupiter which has an easy flow of energy to the ruler of the disease. The disease can easily grow and spread. As the aspect was applying the disease was progressing but not at its height. Luckily early treatment caught the cancer in time.

The context aids the interpretation - it was a chart relating to a diagnosis of cancer and in that context what you don't want to see is a propensity for the disease to grow easily and without obstruction.

Most introductory texts will state that Jupiter and Venus are benefics and Saturn and Mars are malefics but in context any planet can play the role of a benefic or alternatively play the role of a malefic.

strangebrew
03-06-2008, 09:30
I have known quite a few people with Moon in Pisces who are prone to drug use...

Myself I have a sun/neptune conjunction in Scorpio :0 lol....i dont do drugs or booze.....BUT.....i am addicted to love...haha....like i have illusions around it, well at least i did...beginning to wake up now

:)

FoolToThink
03-06-2008, 10:01
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