Do you find the Lenormand to be counter-intuitive?

[Glass Owl]

Moderator Note

Moderator Note

Unfortunately, quite a lot of posts have been removed from this thread as they did not have anything to do with the topic at hand or even Lenormand.

A section of posts concerning the concept of reading Tarot cards using lenormand methods has been split off into a new thread. You may find it by clicking on the link below:
I am completely new to Lenormand

Now, let's please stick to topic of the thread - Do you find the Lenormand to be counter-intuitive?

Thanks,
Glass Owl
Lenormand Co-Moderator

 

[Seaqueen]

I guess I just need to know if I am alone in this? Does everyone read the lenormand cards by what has been decided is the "proper " meaning of each card?

Hi: If you are referring "proper" way to read the cards as traditional, I feel these cards belong to all of us and we can read them whatever way we want. After all, they are just fortune telling cards. Cartomancers will read the Lenormand according to what they find in books, websites and in some cases by a relative who passed down the meanings.

Yes, there is historical evidence on how certain cards should be read but people were reading the Lenormand cards in back alleys or in the gypsy's den way before those discoveries were made and did just fine.

I read Lenormand reversed in some cases which is a big "no no" for the traditional way of reading them is upright. I know the meanings of the the cards quite well but sometimes that's just not enough. I read the images and what they mean to me and what they mean when combined with other images. I look at the directions in the cards who is facing who and what is facing what.

I feel strongly that a person's intuition is a vital part of reading the Lenormand. I get psychic impressions from the cards' images and not from the assigned cards' meaning if that makes sense...

Also, I think it is important to develop your own style of reading these cards. I would encourage a person to follow their heart and who cares what anyone else thinks. If your Readings provide a good rate of accuracy feedback keep doing what you are doing.

Fortune telling with Lenormand should be fun, following a loose structure but with lots of room for personal experimentation.

Madame Seaqueen.

 

[Dragongirl]

You are certainly not alone!

I completely agree that we can learn a lot from traditional systems of divination and from the experiences and ideas of others--picking up great tools for our toolbox--but, when it comes down to it, we are on our own with ourselves and our querents. We simply have to use what works for us as individual readers. I've been involved in Tarot and other psychic work for many years and have only recently picked up Lenormand (thanks to Rana George's book), but I'm already, and very characteristically, in high renegade mode with Lenormand! Last night, I realized that my mindset is much more shamanic, neopagan and esoteric, and that means I've got a whole range of other ideas about symbols than what conventional Lenormand presents to us. I mix Tarot, Lenormand and clairvoyant imagery in my head all the time, using each one to illuminate the others. And it's really my business and nobody else's! Thanks for sharing your ideas and experience with us. I know there are more of us who feel this way than anyone can imagine, though not everyone has the courage to speak up!

 

[Teheuti]

Last night, I realized that my mindset is much more shamanic, neopagan and esoteric, and that means I've got a whole range of other ideas about symbols than what conventional Lenormand presents to us.

I agree. You and Seaqueen and others here make the very good point that these cards can be used any way one wants. There's nothing stopping us. However, there are some wonderful Oracle decks out there, as well as Tarot, that lend themselves very well to the approaches you mention - so why try to remake the Lenormand deck into something else (just like decks that have been designed to fulfill those specific purposes)? An experienced or naturally-gifted reader can pick up anything and "read" or get messages from it - including trash and picture postcards. Having used many kinds of divination decks I find that certain ones are better for some things and other decks lend themselves to entirely different kinds of issues. The Lenormand reading 'tradition' as it has developed over time, to my mind, really optimizes what this deck has to offer, but as I've said before, any set of images can be read in any way that one wants.

 

[Seaqueen]

Lenormand enhances intuition

Moderator Note
..........
Now, let's please stick to topic of the thread - Do you find the Lenormand to be counter-intuitive? ...............

Greetings:
Intuitive -having the ability to understand or know something without any direct proof.
Counter- opposition

No, I do not think the Lenormand to be counter-intuitive, in fact I think the Lenormand can enhance one's intuition.

The Lenormand is a deck of cards. There are assigned meanings to these cards. Most of the cards have more than one meaning.

How do you know which meaning to choose? You use your intuition. The "process" of selecting the suitable meaning to compose a cartomancy sentence/statement/prediction is intuitive. Sure, many times it is plain ol' common sense but more times than not it is your intuition.

There are various techniques used to read the Lenormand cards which have nothing to do with intuition but there are other techniques which depend on your intuition.

If you are doing a three card layout and each card has 3-5 meanings, in order to link the meanings together you must select the suitable meaning of each card in order to form a cartomancy statement, sentence or prediction. You have memorized all these meanings. Common sense selections don't always apply.

How is this selection of suitable meanings made?
I am using man for Gentleman and woman for Lady to simplify the info below even though we all know that either of these cards can be a special person in the client's life and are Significators.

a) common sense or via deducing
For example:
Gentleman+Heart+Lady =
A+B+C=D Man loves woman

b) intuitive
For example:
Gentleman+Snake+Lady =
A+B(1)+C=D Deception between man and woman
A+B(2)+C=D Older woman comes between the man and woman
A+B(3)+C=D Man outsmarts the woman

The process of selecting one of B's three meanings is an intuitive process.

 

[SunChariot]

For me personally, it's normal for different readers to read differently. I believe that reading is the act of connecting to something inside of you . And that the best way to do that varies from person to person I don't believe anyone can know the best way for someone else to read. And that each of our gifts as readers can lay in very different areas.

That being said, for me ... I find the Lenormand can be very intuitive. Any deck can turn on an use our intuition. For me when I do connect the two is when I get my best readings, by far. As that is personally .how I read best.

Not sure I am ready myself though for an unusual lenormand. I guess I still prefer that to come from jnside me.

....I don't do old man much for Lilies though...it tends to be more about the life wisdom we have learnt over time through experience for me.

Babs

 

[andybc]

I completely agree that we can learn a lot from traditional systems of divination and from the experiences and ideas of others--picking up great tools for our toolbox--but, when it comes down to it, we are on our own with ourselves and our querents. We simply have to use what works for us as individual readers. I've been involved in Tarot and other psychic work for many years and have only recently picked up Lenormand (thanks to Rana George's book), but I'm already, and very characteristically, in high renegade mode with Lenormand! Last night, I realized that my mindset is much more shamanic, neopagan and esoteric, and that means I've got a whole range of other ideas about symbols than what conventional Lenormand presents to us. I mix Tarot, Lenormand and clairvoyant imagery in my head all the time, using each one to illuminate the others. And it's really my business and nobody else's! Thanks for sharing your ideas and experience with us. I know there are more of us who feel this way than anyone can imagine, though not everyone has the courage to speak up!

Nobody says that there is only one way to read to Lenormand. Also, don't buy into the traditional method is counter-intuitive or all rote. It's not.

But there is a difference between reading the Lenormand and just using a Lenormand pack of cards.

It comes down to do you want to read the cards before you, or the cards in your head. Caitlín Matthews is a genuine Shaman and a traditionalist after all, so the possibility to bring the two together is real.

 

[Glass Owl]

Moderator Note

An intriguing discussion concerning the Lilies card has been split off into its own thread.

You may find it by visiting the thread below:
Lilies Card

~Glass Owl

 

[heron]

I'm also a newbie to Lenormand. Am I right in thinking that no definitive set of "rules" for using Lenormand decks actually exists?

 

[Teheuti]

I'm also a newbie to Lenormand. Am I right in thinking that no definitive set of "rules" for using Lenormand decks actually exists?

No. A definitive set of instructions does exist. Nearly identical instructions have been published with almost every deck since 1846 until very recently. The 1846 instructions were based, in large part on instructions for a similar deck, published in 1794/6. Parallels in other cartomantic traditions from the 18th and 19th century are clear.

Traditional readers tend to use these instructions as a base, to which related modern meanings and some helpful techniques have been added - most of which are understood and used by readers in countries where the Lenormand deck is very familiar (Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands, France, Russia, Eastern Europe and areas of South America).

Of course, you can use the cards any way you want, but methods designed and optimized for this deck can really make the most out of it.