The Star card

kwaw

Aeon418 said:
Ok then, using your own argument against you. If it's class A it must be doctrine, therefore:

Not might, maybe or not. ;)

Maybe he did, but whoever the wise are he revealed it too, it apparently wasn't meant for the readers of the BoT.

kwaw
 

Aeon418

kwaw said:
Maybe he did, but whoever the wise are he revealed it too, it apparently wasn't meant for the readers of the BoT.
Quite possible. ;)
There is a traditional saying that whenever an Adept seems to have made a straightforward, comprehensible statement, then is it most certain that He means something entirely different. The Truth is nevertheless clearly set forth in His Words: it is His simplicity that baffles the unworthy.

Aleister Crowley
 

kwaw

Aeon418 said:
Quite possible. ;)
"There is a traditional saying that whenever an Adept seems to have made a straightforward, comprehensible statement, then is it most certain that He means something entirely different. The Truth is nevertheless clearly set forth in His Words: it is His simplicity that baffles the unworthy."

Well there is certainly nothing straightforwards, comprehensive or simple about the explaination and confusion of his solution in the BoT. Astrological symmetry [which is simple and I think a good explanation] that he then disrupts by altering letter/sign attributions so the symetry of the solution is no longer present, moebius strips that aren't moebius strips, swapping cards that Al says are right as they are...

and anyway 'Simplicity that baffles the unworthy' is merely a version of the old emperors new clothes con.

Kwaw
 

Aeon418

*Centre of Pestilence Alert* :D

I'm becoming increasingly convinced that Crowley was pointing at a dual attribution of the Star & the Emperor. Crowley's apparent mix up's in The Book of Thoth aren't mix up's at all. They are a clue pointing at a dual attribution consistent with Crowley's ideas about the Aeon of Horus.
(Crowley may have been getting on a bit when he wrote The Book of Thoth but his final book, Magick Without Tears, proves that he was just as sharp as ever.)

Horus is the child of Isis and Osiris. According to Crowley we have already passed through both of the Aeon's represented by those two gods. The present Aeon is the product of both ie the child Horus.

The Aeon of Osiris was the age of patriarchal rule and law, suitably symbolised by the Emperor. The earlier Aeon of Isis was based on matriarchy, the mother. On page 287 of BoT - The Vital Triads, Crowley lists the Star as the Mother. The Star is the goddess Nuit who is also Isis.
1 : 22. Now, therefore, I am known to ye by my name Nuit, and to him by a secret name which I will give him when at last he knoweth me. Since I am Infinite Space, and the Infinite Stars thereof, do ye also thus. Bind nothing! Let there be no difference made among you between any one thing & any other thing; for thereby there cometh hurt.
Infinite Space - Infinite Stars ~ ISIS. ;)
1 : 57.Invoke me under my stars! Love is the law, love under will. Nor let the fools mistake love; for there are love and love. There is the dove, and there is the serpent. Choose ye well! He, my prophet, hath chosen, knowing the law of the fortress, and the great mystery of the House of God.
All these old letters of my Book are aright; but [Tzaddi] is not the Star. This also is secret: my prophet shall reveal it to the wise.
The Dove is the descending spirit of God. This, in my opinion, refers to the Emperor on the 15th path.
The Serpent is the rising of the Kundalini. This refers to Nuit (Hadit) and the Star on the 15th path. (Note the hair in the Star)
1 : 8 The Khabs is in the Khu, not the Khu in the Khabs.
1 : 9. Worship then the Khabs, and behold my light shed over you!
Khabs = Star. ;) But where's the light? See the Emperor.

I'm sure this will be shouted down and ridiculed. But it does make sense of all those contradictions and the "supposed" mistakes in The Book of Thoth.
 

Teheuti

ravenest said:
What is Tom's attribution to these paths (ie. which horizontals are what mother letters, wich verticals are which planets and which diagonals are what signs?) or a link or thread number.

I want to apologize. My memory failed me. Tom Little's attributions for the paths on the Tree do not follow the plan I mentioned earlier (and I can't remember who's does).

Tom's model for the Trumps on the Tree can be found at:

http://www.telp.com/tarot/hermits_tarot/hpaths.htm

Mary
 

kwaw

Some possible examples of planetary letters to vertical paths are in the thread here:

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?p=718567#post718567

quote:

We may attribute the letters to the vertical paths of the 'natural array' version of the tree based upon the planetary hexagram. Place the hexagram over the natural array version of the ToL [like two hexagrams with the bottom of the top resting in Yesod and the top of th bottom in Tiphareth] and line up the points of the planetary hexagram with the vertical paths [ie, in between the two hexagram of which the ToL is constructed], we then get:

Kether/Tiphareth = Saturn - Beit - Bateleur
Chokmah/Chesed = Jupiter - Gimel - Papesse
Binah/Gevurah = Mars - Daleth - Empress
Tiphareth/Yesod = Sun - Kaph - Wheel of Fortune
Chesed/Netzach = Venus - Pe - Maison Dieu
Gevurah/Hod = Mercury - Resh - Sun
Yesod/Malkuth = Moon - Tav - World

Kwaw
 

Aeon418

Dual attribution

I thought someone might has started screaming heresy by now. Is no one getting their knickers in a twist over the thought of a dual attribution?
 

ravenest

heresy!

Nah, dont wear knickers! But I liked your "centre of pestilence' alert!

So I will run with that :)

Go to the Book of the Law. The instruction (as well as not to discuss its contents) says (To AC) that the original manuscript must be included.
Why? I'd assume so the readers of the text can read the manuscript as well.
Go to the manuscript where the Tzaddi reference is. See how the hand and pen have written something. Over the top of this is another hand and pen that has drawn a tzaddi over the top of the original to make the strange looking tzaddi in the manuscript. This hand and pen appear on the next page as well in a modification of the manuscript, also refereing to a star (the star with a red circle in the middle.) Now Crowley has said it doesnt matter what he wrote, he HEARD Tzaddi at the time. (and Rose corrected it ?)
Now go to the section about adding the comment. same hand and pen as AC but squashed in between lines. (added later?)

Now that I am a centre of pestilence I expect no resoponse. However the comment does seem to suggest that the solutions and interpretations to the many things in Liber Al are to be worked out ONES SELF in refrence to AC.s writings .... so really you are ALL centres of pestilence.

The easiest and most obvious solutions (often missed in the occult world) lie in Aeon's response that AC went through a developmental process with this attribution and played at using both.

What good is an original traditional system without modern variation and what use is a modern variation without the traditional to compare it with?

I still wanna hear his answer however about how Tzaddi can change but all the other letters dont (and I cant find a bit in the manuscript where "...and Heh " are rubbed out).
 

Aeon418

More pestilence!

ravenest said:
Nah, dont wear knickers!
Did we really need to know that? This is a Tarot forum you know. Kids read this stuff. I suggest you divulge that kind of personal information on another, more suitable forum. :D hee hee
ravenest said:
Go to the manuscript where the Tzaddi reference is. See how the hand and pen have written something. Over the top of this is another hand and pen that has drawn a tzaddi over the top of the original to make the strange looking tzaddi in the manuscript.
I've always assumed it was just a quick Tzaddi that was corrected for clarity at a later date. I mean, can you write hebrew letters at speed in the same way you can English. I know I can't.
ravenest said:
This hand and pen appear on the next page as well in a modification of the manuscript, also refereing to a star (the star with a red circle in the middle.) Now Crowley has said it doesnt matter what he wrote, he HEARD Tzaddi at the time. (and Rose corrected it ?)
Hmmm.... maybe.... ? I think it's a little bit of a stretch to compare that Tzaddi with Rose's handwriting.
ravenest said:
Now go to the section about adding the comment. same hand and pen as AC but squashed in between lines. (added later?)
Yeah, I have noticed it before. In fact you could remove that line without doing any real harm to the text. It still reads fine. But even if you suspect that Crowley inserted that line so that he could write his own comment, why is the comment mentioned again at the bottom of the page?
It's still interesting though.
ravenest said:
The easiest and most obvious solutions (often missed in the occult world) lie in Aeon's response that AC went through a developmental process with this attribution and played at using both.
I think he was still playing(?) with both attributions when he wrote the Book of Thoth. Remember "my prophet shall reveal it to the wise". How does that square with him printing it for "everyone", wise or not, in the Book of Thoth.
The mix-ups in the Book of Thoth look more and more like a deliberate attempt by Crowley to reveal something without saying so in a direct way. You have to work it out, not just be told it.
All these old letters of my Book are aright; but [Tzaddi] is not the Star. This also is secret: my prophet shall reveal it to the wise.
OK then, I'm going to put my "Centre of pestilence" hat on again. *Look away now if you don't want to know the results* :D

Tzaddi is not the Star. You can interpret "not" in two ways that contradict each other. One way is the literal way, i.e. Tzaddi does not correspond to the Star. So Crowley linked it to the Emperor instead. (At this point everyone starts screaming and wetting themselves. :D)

But anyone who has ever read Frater Achad's Liber 31 (which Crowley accepted as the key to The Book of the Law) will spot the connection between the word "not" and the goddess Nuit. ;) (See Achad's ideas about LA / AL - Not & God.)
In this case the verse from TBotL would read:
All these old letters of my Book are aright; but [Tzaddi] is Nuit the Star. This also is secret: my prophet shall reveal it to the wise
In this case both attributions are correct depending on how you interpret the verse. The Star is Heh and so is the Emperor, and the same applies to Tzaddi.
One attribution represents Osiris the other Isis. Isis + Osiris = Horus.
Both attributions are capable of yeilding meaningful results. This is exactly what Crowley was doing in his 1923 diary when he was using the dual attributions.
The double loop in the zodiac both exists and doesn't exist at the same time.

Does this make sense? Or does it sound like mental diarrhoea? :D