Pagan Tarot 2000

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 03 Oct 2001, and now archived in the Forum Library.

GeminiLady	03 Oct 2001
Does anyone read with this deck? I just ordered it, I've been looking at it online for some time now, I'm officially addicted to tarot cards--this is deck number 4 for me in 2 weeks! Anyone who has it, what do you think? Love and Light, Gem

dolphingirl	03 Oct 2001
Hi I ordered my deck from the company in England and it took three weeks to arrive. I have not had a chance to read with it yet. The deck comes wrapped in celephane (no box) and the book if really great have not read it all but like the fact that it is not just the same old 78 definitions and spreads. I really love the major arcania and the minors are pretty pips the keywords on the cards blend well with the pics so you can ignore them if you like. Some of them differ from the Rider deck or are switched so it might take a bit of getting used to. Over all I think I will be able to read w it easily. I like the face that it is just a tad smaller than other decks & I can get my fingers around them. The edges are rough (perferations) and could wish that they were finished better. Overall I really like this deck :) Let me know what you think when you get them Thanks Samantha

Kiama	04 Oct 2001
Where can we see this Tarot deck? I'm intrigued. Kiama

GeminiLady	04 Oct 2001
Here's where I found out about it: http://www.bluewitch.com/healingtarot/annikin.htm If you do a reading from the website, you can choose the deck. The Pangan Tarot 2000 is one of the decks. It'll link you to the site in England that sells direct. Love and Light, Gem

faunabay	04 Oct 2001
Ok, you all got me curious. I had to go see this deck. I found this site which has quite a few sample cards. http://www.themysticeye.com/pics/tarot2000.htm And you can buy it at a special price on line for 8.95 british currency at: http://www.cw.cx/nder/books/tarot 2000.htm Hope I typed those in right. :) (NOPE, I didn't type them right. I had to change them twice. LOL) All that said I love the major cards. They are just beautiful!!!! But the minors are pips - no scenes. And the decks I've gotten in the past that don'thave scenes on the minors never clicked with me. So I'm hesitant, but those majors are calling to me!!!!!

Kiama	05 Oct 2001
WOW! I love this deck! That's another one I'm gonna have ot buy... Kiama

purplelady	06 Oct 2001
I have coveted this deck big time for some time now! But am hesitant to buy from an unfamiliar place. I live in an apartment so am kind-of concerned how it arrives and in what packaging. You say the cards didn't even have a box?! But the whole thing must come packed in a box! silly question! Thanx for the "blue witch" free reading site. I did get a reading with tarot 2000. It was totally right on ,kind-of amazing! Unfortunately , my boyfriend got into some legal trouble yesterday,starting with a little fender bender,long sad story. Anyhow, my final card was justice, reversed.I don't think I couldv'e picked a more appropriate card if I tried. It's sad , but very accurate! Well , I love this deck and hopefully will get ahold of it someday! See what I mean- I ought to just skip the reading if I know the answer anyhow and especially if I know it isn't good! I'll only do a reading when I feel the outcome will be good!!!

Cerulean	08 Jun 2003
...at a bit of a discount. It's a very pretty deck and I'm thinking if they have some, yes, it's a good find. How's the people who have it feel? Mari H.

coldsuns	08 Jun 2003
Ah! Nice deck. But whats the Jupiter about??

HudsonGray	08 Jun 2003
Purple lady, I send a lot of stuff out by mail & when someone has a package they don't want to be sent to an iffy apartment, they have it sent to their workplace or their folks house or an alternate friend's place. Best to be safe, not sorry. Most people sending things have no trouble sending it 'in care of' to a second address.

Macavity	09 Jun 2003
I have it on order (since last night) The turnaround from playingcardsales.co.uk usually means it will get here on Thursday. I'm hoping it will be a sort of "Paganism meets Crowley Thoth" (the latter for the minors, if I'm going to be able to read with it!) The most obvious appeal (to me anyway) is the absence of (imo) sentimentality and the air of mysticism - rather than 70's stereotypes We live in hope. It was (surprisingly) expensive, compared to some other decks... We'll see if it merits the price tag :D Coldsuns: I anticipate it is modelled on the IJJ-Suisse decks, where they replaced the more overt Christian imagery of the "Pope" and "Popess" with Jupiter and Juno, respectively. Hence the J-J bit? (or something like that) See Jim Revak's or other tarot history site for details ;) Macavity P.S. I ordered it with a "Russian Tarot of the Tsar". In retrospect, I guess they make ODD package-fellows. (Imagining the charred remains of cards arriving, following an inter-faith dispute!) :laugh:

Sulis	09 Jun 2003
If anyone`s interested there is a used copy of this deck available on amazon uk for £3. Love and light Crystlamynx xx

fairyhedgehog	09 Jun 2003
Crystalminx, I think that that is the book not the cards?

Sulis	10 Jun 2003
D`oh! Sorry folks, I`m a fool. Crystalmynx xx

felicityk	10 Jun 2003
This deck caught my eye when it first appeared on Aeclectic in Feb 2002. http://www.aeclectic.net/pagan/index.html I obtained it soon afterward through eBay. I know that Tarot Garden also carries it, though it's not always in stock. To echo what others have said, it's packaged without a box for the cards. My deck came shrinkwrapped with the book and a little "shopping" bag to hold the cards. Macavity, I'm not quite sure what you're expecting for minors, but I wouldn't compare them to the Thoth. All pip cards within each suit have the same background with the requisite number of suit symbols. They do have keywords. It's also a swords=fire deck, which is my preference, but may pose problems for others. Felicity

Macavity	10 Jun 2003
Ah, Felicityk - I was just hoping that the minor keywords might be those of the Thoth. Some of them (at least at Mysticeye) seemed that way. I realise this is perhaps a vain hope - Even (the otherwise great) Mr Haindl seemed to have felt obliged to alter some of these. One of the reason I have a lot of respect for Clive Barrett (and his AE) is that he used Crowley's but more significantly didn't put them on the cards... :D I'm sure I shall be happy enough with the deck on it's own merits though. Macavity

RedWood	07 Jul 2003
I got it! The lovely Rhiannon traded me her deck..i absolutely click with it so far! I am amazed at how well I am reading the pips..I have been against unillustrated pips because i coudlnt read with them before..but NOW..Watch out..Who needs a human to muss it up!!! I do not have the book. Any info on teh book would hlep please? debating about getting it or not..

Little Baron	08 Jul 2003
Hi everyone It is so inspiring when you read a thread where others appreciate a deck you bought. I recently bought this deck after looking through several internet sites, going into shops, walking in and looking at it, walking out again and then, of course ... coming back again! I was a little disappointed by it because the pips are so alike and I found it hard to relate anything to them. The court cards had this problem as well because I couldn't draw any personality from the figures. The majors, on the other hand, are beautiful. They really are! There is so much there. It is just a shame that they are not a little larger so you can really fall into them. Having said that, the smallness is kind of endearing too. I have read with them a few times and as time goes on, we are developing a relationship. Look forward to hearing everybody elses responses from this deck as we get more familiar with it. Yaboot

Jewel	08 Jul 2003
I have had this deck for quite a while and the majors are trully lovely. I have not worked with it really, not because of the pips, but because of the card stock (they need a dose of powder I suppose). The laminate sticks the cards together. There is also a book that goes with this deck, which I have heard is pretty good (I have it, just have not read it). When I got the deck it was OOP not sure if that is still the case. I would say the deck is worth it for the majors. The minors have a colored background to tie into the elemental correspondences, but I agree with Yaboot that they are very very similar.

Cerulean	08 Jul 2003
and I'm still delving into it. More later-check out the link below! http://www.tarotpassages.com/tarot2000-SAS.htm I suggest buying through TarotGarden.com if you can. I took advantage of the "P" sales previously, so got the book and deck at a bit of a discount. The book pages 74-109 supports an interesting premise--what if the earliest deck ordered by Filippo Visconti was painted by Michelino da Bezosso and such mythical art was further carried into card and minature painting throughout history? While the historic Catholic Christianity of Northern Italy influences are also touched on, there were Greco-Roman stories and art that also influenced such courts. The translated Greco-Roman myths that went into art and stories and the Christian ladder of vice/virtue or pilgrims stories/hiearchies such as Dante's Inferno, Petrach's Triumph and card decks such as the Karnoffel are touched upon. Examples also can be seen in the Visconti Book of Hours or the Petrach Triumph floats. Robin Payne also writes about the later influences for her tarot and that information I have seen before. But she her samples from early history and ability to pull it forward has my admiration--briefly, but nicely done. There's black and white and a few color illustrations. I cannot comment on the understanding of the other folkloric Strega threads, although Robin Payne is a very good writer--she does tell you in the beginning this is a mix of myth and story that went into this deck. If she had more space to produce a book of minors that explored the allegorical stories that she touched upon, I would be absolutely delighted to see it. The art goes well with favored Folchi decks and it is intricate, colorful and charming. I hope some of us review this deck soon, now that it is available again. While not the fine, classical engraving that I usually favor in Marseilles-patterns, I had wanted a comparative and modern deck that did well with Folchi's colorful, self-taught mastery---Rosemarie Lewsey's art is eye-catching and lovely. I haven't even got to reading with it yet...but I appreciate what I've learned so far. Mari Hoshizaki

RedWood	08 Jul 2003
Thanks for the responses.. Thanks Mari. for the link..Duh me lol! One of the reasons i wanted this deck was so I could compare to the Marsielle (which admittingly, I have not even looked through all the cards yet).. For anyone who has compared them..Care to share some thoughts? The pips are VERY similiar. I am just reading with them Like I have never seen an illustrated deck.. Someone is trading me for the book! THANKS!!! This might be a book I will actually read!

Cerulean	09 Jul 2003
The Major Arcana titles have the following modern variations: The Juggler is the Le Bateleur (Magician), Juno is the modern version of the Papessa (High Priestess), Jupiter is Papa (Pope/Heirophant), Fortitude is La Forza (Strength) and The Angel is Il Giudizio or Judgment. In the book, each card of the Major Arcana has a sonnet. I can see my allegorical preferences sighing softly, as attempts at terza rima or working in Dante or Petrach’s ideas might be an interesting variation. But these are modern majors and the sonnet is a modern tribute to the trump, looking backward to different meanings. The suited minors are Cups, Swords, Coins and Batons and court cards are Page, Knight, Queen and King. The colors of each suit show Cups as green, Swords as red, Coins as yellow and Batons as blue. Keywords titles are on all cards of the minors. A rather nice touch on the minors are the pip patterns and the borders of Celtic knots. A rather odd variation is the "Three of Cups – Rejection.” Many tarot authors would use this as a classical Three Graces depiction, but the allegorical ladder in the minors follows a specific numerological logic. So the author prefers the even numbered "Four of Cups - Happiness". The first part of the 127 pages describe the cards. Each major archana sonnet faces a card image in black and white. The next section is a list by suit of the minor positions and keywords. Next are different historical theories and systems of tarot that are briefly noted in a nice presentation I haven't even got to reading with it yet...but I appreciate what I've learned so far. Mari Hoshizaki

Cerulean	09 Jul 2003
Tarot 2000-The Pagan Tarot by Robin Payne, illustrated by Rosemarie Lewsey Publisher: Alexander Associates, 1999 ISBN#: 1-899526-56-0 Rosemarie Lewsey's art is eye-catching and lovely. I wanted a comparative and modern deck that matched Folchi's early colorful designs. Her painted art works well with early Folchi decks for detail and color. This is fantasy art, with most of the designs showing variations that come in a hand-done product. Her style differs from fine, classical engraving that I usually favor in Marseilles-patterns. Instead, we find a naïve style in the face and figures, more medieval. I like the delicate lines. If you are an art student, you might find this fantasy art looks like a sketchbook sample. I like the feel of an artist’s sketchbooks. I also sense some well-done research as I study the designs and book. Robin Payne’s research from page one has a premise that delights my historical curiosity. What if one followed the structure of one the earliest triumph decks ordered by Filippo Maria Visconti and painted by Michelino da Bezosso? From this allegorical origin, 22 trumps were created in the spirit of such mythical suits. Robin Payne also takes on a historical walk that shows some of some of the historical samples of Northern Italian leaning toward mythical art in card and minature painting. Robin Payne does have other threads, but this one was keenly interesting to me. The book pages 74-109 supports this interesting premise, While historic Catholic Christianity of Northern Italy influences are also noted, there were Greco-Roman stories and art that also influenced such courts. The translated Greco-Roman myths that went into art and stories and the Christian ladder of vice/virtue or pilgrims stories/hiearchies such as Dante's Inferno, Petrach's Triumph and card decks such as the Karnoffel are sampled. Examples also can be seen in the Visconti Book of Hours or the Petrach Triumph floats. Robin Payne also writes about the later influences for her tarot and that information I have seen before. Her samples from early history and ability to pull it forward has my admiration—briefly and nicely done. My own preference would have been for her to follow the Dante example more closely and to touch a little more on Italian and French literature threads. In the Dante example, for instance, I would have followed through from the Inferno to Paradiso, rather than just stopping at the end of Purgatory. The Moon is at the bottom of the heavenly spheres and allegorically links to the card designs of the Mantegna sequence. Other writers (such as Robert Place) have noted that the squaring of the circle at the end of Dante’s sequence has a nice tie in with the World design. There's a good number of black and white and a few color illustrations. Her Petrach summary is quite good for the tarot fan. Because I’m interested in Dante and Petrach information, I also note that she does not include some influences in medieval or Renaissance art from the Northern Italian and French literature traditions. What I find wonderful in historical tarocchi and Italian art of the carneval and triumph is it’s blend of myth and romance. I like how the romantic allegory from Greco-Roman pagan gods also blended with references to historical astrology and courtly triumph of love themes from Celtic and Arthurian sources. But she doesn’t claim to have read from Dante scholars or followed all the historical card variations. I can understand that she would have been limited in space. Just because of my own leanings, I would have followed through on these areas and skipped the folkloric Strega threads, which she noted came from a 19th century writer whose study is often quoted, but not verified in any scholarly manner. Robin Payne is a very good writer--she tells you in the beginning this is a mix of myth and story that went into this deck. If she had more space to produce a book of minors that explored the allegorical stories that she touched upon, I would be absolutely delighted to see it. Small comments aside, let’s get back to the cards. The cards are three by four inches and are matte smooth, but not plastic in feel. I prefer this treatment and find them easy to handle.

felicityk	09 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Mari_Hoshizaki Juno is the modern version of the Papessa (High Priestess), Jupiter is Papa (Pope/Heirophant) Actually, Juno and Jupiter as replacements for the Popess and Pope date back to the early 18th-century Besancon Tarot, which is the precursor to the modern 1JJ Swiss Tarot. http://it.geocities.com/a_pollett/cards28.htm Felicity

Cerulean	09 Jul 2003
Thanks for the note! It's hard sometimes to word it exactly right, as the Tarot-L advisory suggests not to use the names Heirophant and High Priestess in writing about the cards of the 1400s. Mari Hoshizaki

Macavity	09 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Mari_Hoshizaki A rather odd variation is the "Three of Cups – Rejection.” Many tarot authors would use this as a classical Three Graces depiction, but the allegorical ladder in the minors follows a specific numerological logic. So the author prefers the even numbered "Four of Cups - Happiness". (My additional emphasis) Yes, it begins to make a LOT more sense in the light of that (I must get the book!) :) The authors indeed seem to have made a positive effort in rectifying the... fluctuating "normal" card assignment versus suit, particularly around the 3's area! That understood, they seem much less daunting, even for (this) Thoth keyword devotee ;) Macavity I still think the Juggler/Angel looks like Robert Plant :laugh:

The Pagan Tarot 2000 thread was originally posted on 03 Oct 2001 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.