thoth questions

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 14 Nov 2001, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Lilliana	14 Nov 2001
I'm planning on buying the thoth deck and have a few questions about it. I have experience in the traditional rider decks. Would I be able to work with this deck right away? I eventually plan on getting a book to further explore this deck, but won't be able to afford one for some time (I would prefer to study the cards and develop my own meanings first anyway). Is this a recommended way to go about getting to know the thoth deck, or do you really need a book when you're starting? Does the thoth deck use traditional numerical meanings (two's representing duality, three's representing growth etc.)? How much do the thoth meanings differ from rider ones? Are there any websites which focus on the thoth deck exclusively? I tried doing a few searches, but only got links to pages selling the cards. Thanks in advance. Sorry for so many questions. Heh. Lilliana

Jewel	14 Nov 2001
Personally I prefer to establish a raport with my cards prior to reading a book, so I think your idea of getting to know the cards is a great one! The Thoth deck is one that I have, I really like, but want to have special time to dedicate to it (which I have not had yet), so I am not in a position to tell you about similarities and differences between the two. What I do not know about the Thoth deck that has really attracted me to it is connection with the Qabalah, and the cards are powerful and beautiful. Numerical meanings should remain the same as their basis is in numerology not Tarot ... The court cards are labeled a little different (but there still are 4, same meanings), and I believe there are one or 2 major arcana cards renamed. Although others may not agree, in my humble opinion this is not a beginners deck, I personally find it quite esoteric and rich in symbolism. For a review on this deck go to www.wicce.com. The deck reviews there are great, and they will give you a lot of the info you are asking about. Good luck!

Lilliana	14 Nov 2001
thanks for your post jewel. Hopefully I'll be able to buy the deck tomorrow. I'm also going to look for the books you suggested in my other post. I can feel a wild spending spree approaching, despite my finanaces (or lack of) hee hee. Lilli

Greenman	14 Nov 2001
a number of the cards are renamed, and two have changed places. Justice becomes 'Adjustment', and is trump #8. and strength becomes 'Lust', and is trump #11. Temperamce remains at #14, but is called 'Art'. Judgement is 'The Aeon' (still #20), and The World is now 'The Universe' (#21). the Court cards are Knight (fire), Queen (water), Prince (air) and Princess (earth). and the minors retain the GD alignment of Swords/air and Wands/fire. i'll post this again in case you didn't catch it; http://hungry.piranho.de/claas/olive_e.html and this is interesting too; http://www.fadmag.com/fallen/items/crowley/thoth.html

mystic	14 Nov 2001
Lilliana, What a treat your in for....I've been using the deck for some time now (2 yrs) and find it amazing. I hope you get the US Games version as the colors are much more brilliant and have no green tinge to them. As a comparison to RW, it matches fairly well. The card meanings are 70% the same. There are some astrological differences as well as some differences in the Qabbalah makeup, but otherwise very close to the original. I will take a while to learn the meanings as the cards ring deep with symbology, color and astrology. Not a beginner deck, but well worth the study. Good luck and come back and let us know how your doing!! -Love and Light

Strange2	14 Nov 2001
Although the Crowley/Harris Thoth deck certainly has a different energy and intensity than the Rider-Waite deck, if you have a basic familiarity with Tarot than you should be able get into Thoth without a book. The images on the Thoth majors and court cards have a way of jumping out and bringing you in, and I say that in a good way. A very good site dedicated to the Thoth deck is Tarot Inspiration. They feature book reviews and a discussion board: - http://www.geocities.com/Paris/2110/ The Ra-Hoor-Khuit Network's Book of Thoth site has descriptions of the cards from Crowley's Book of Thoth and the LWB: http://www.rahoorkhuit.net/library/thoth/ Another Thoth discussion board is Thoth_Tarot: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thoth_tarot You'll find a lot of fans of the Thoth deck here, so feel free to talk Thoth anytime!

starangel	15 Nov 2001
Hi, You may wanna try going to www.angelpaths.com as well! It s a pretty site that has a review on each individual card! starangel

purplelady	24 Nov 2001
Quote: mystic (15 Nov, 2001 09:40): I hope you get the US Games version as the colors are much more brilliant and have no green tinge to them. I just bought the u.s. games large version , and It is the greenish one. I wish I had waited and bought the large swiss version I think (?) by AG Muller as I hear the colors are much nicer. I still really look foward to working with the deck (again)though.

purplelady	24 Nov 2001
O.K.after returning from amazon.com, I'm not so sure. I Know there are at least 3 versions available. One is the small or regular size deck. The next is the large size. Both in a green box by u.s. games. That's the one I have , in the large box. Then there is a Swiss Large Crowley Thoth deck which is supposed to have much better colors. I am uncertain if this one is also u.s. games? Also , I'd be worried if Amazon would send the swiss edition or the u.s. one as it doesn't seem to be very clear at their site which one you'd actually be ordering.

purplelady	24 Nov 2001
Also strange2 , thank you for the links , I'm going to explore them more. Starangel , I went to angelpaths.com but could not find a review for each card of the thoth deck?

Strange2	24 Nov 2001
Quote: purplelady (25 Nov, 2001 07:58): O.K.after returning from amazon.com, I'm not so sure. I Know there are at least 3 versions available. One is the small or regular size deck. The next is the large size. Both in a green box by u.s. games. That's the one I have , in the large box. Then there is a Swiss Large Crowley Thoth deck which is supposed to have much better colors. I am uncertain if this one is also u.s. games? Also , I'd be worried if Amazon would send the swiss edition or the u.s. one as it doesn't seem to be very clear at their site which one you'd actually be ordering. I recently ordered Crowley Thoth decks from the US Games site directly (http://www.usgamesinc.com/categoryFrame_T.cfm?Category_ID=251, under the Esoteric category), and the following decks definitely have high-quality color with the gray boarders, and not the earlier washed out colors with the green borders: MC80 - Large Swiss CR80 - Small PMC78 - Pocket Swiss I was very pleased with the quality of the decks, and the fast service from US Games. In 2000, US Games came out with a new edition of the deck with much better colors than their previous edition.

AmounrA	29 Nov 2001
Its quite funny that Crowley loathed A.E Waite and his deck. I think changing to the thoth deck is a wise move. I have used them for years, very happily. I think getting to know the deck without reading the book is a go:-)d move, I think it would be a good move to buy the book after a spell of time and read it.( it can be a tough read, but its well worth it)

FernandoPoo	29 Dec 2001
There is a great online version of 'The Book of Thoth' at: http://www.angelfire.com/celeb/Crowley/thoth/thoth.html

AmounrA	30 Dec 2001
Fernando Poo .....Do I detect a reader of Robert Anton Wilsons [& shea], excellent book 'The Illuminatus'? :-)

Greenman	31 Dec 2001
the Swiss printing is MUCH superior, although my pocket-sized deck is just as good and is printed in Belgium. one good way to tell is by looking at the back of the card (the side with the Rosecrucian Cross). on the U.S printing with the 'greenish' tint the pattern goes all the way to the edge, but on the Swiss version there is a light gray border. however, the LWB from the U.S Games version is better than the Swiss. but this deck is SO complex that you'll want to get a book or two for it anyway (eventually).

The thoth questions thread was originally posted on 14 Nov 2001 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.