I Tarocchi Celtici

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 16 Jan 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Pollux	16 Jan 2002
"I Tarocchi Celtici" by Laura Tuan. 8) (wow first time I use that emoticon! ;D ) It was a present from a far-away ( but really close-by :) )uncle. Unexpected, and therefore twice as appropriate! It also is my first deck as a gift, but no book yet - hardly anyone at home takes this passion of mine seriously (I know you all DO! :D ), but to drive mama angry I say it's because of my gemini "dominance". }> Anyhow, the question is: As I've seen this deck in the want-list of someone in this forum, I want to know how they feel about this deck. My very own sensations... next time!

Jewel	16 Jan 2002
Hi Polluux!!! Lucky you!!! I am one of those people here at the forum that would like to have that deck. Unfortunately I have not been able to see one up close and personal, only a few cards here and there on the web. From what I have seen they look very beautiful and useful ... sorry I don't have much else to say. If you ever decide to trade it let me know ;) Love & Light,

Pollux	17 Jan 2002
Quote: Jewel (17 Jan, 2002 06:51): Hi Polluux!!! Lucky you!!! I am one of those people here at the forum that would like to have that deck. Unfortunately I have not been able to see one up close and personal, only a few cards here and there on the web. From what I have seen they look very beautiful and useful ... sorry I don't have much else to say. If you ever decide to trade it let me know ;) Love & Light, Unfortunately, I'm one of those people who will never ever trade a present. My granny (one of the only three women who seem to have something to do with ParaN in this goddamn family! :-) And maybe, they don't even care... :'( I'm a boy, put 2 & 2 together... how misunderstiid I feel! :'( ) I lost my point. Ah yes! My granny used to say (she's in The Heights Hotel now :) ) that giving away a present, especially if as a present again, was a very BAD thing to do - not merely as something bad god kids don't do, but as something that could have got a sort of curse bestowed on me. I've found evidence of this attitude in a couple of book... it sounds like folks' superstition, doesn't it? Yet, I DO feel like sticking to it. Even considering the fact that I wouldn't like it, if it happened to a goft of mine :D . I thing I'm going to post this anytime soon. However, I wouldn't trade it at all even considering it was unexpected and BEAUTIFUL! It's so GREAT! IT'S WICKED! (now you do know what I believe! ;p ). It is hard to find it, I know, but why don't you try with E-Commerce? :) (I wonder where you are form) Apart from Amazon and all of them, there are several Italian stores that do that. Alidastore is So popular in this forum: it's in SanMarino, near Rimini or Boulogne. If you ever happen to pass by, have a glance to them (San Marino is a great sight too :D ). Or you could try "[a href="http://www.trigono.it"]Il Trigono[/a]" (I never did, I don't know anything about their services, but I might help you with Italian :D ). Hope this will help, also help ME to find someone to discuss this deck with! ;p.

Jewel	17 Jan 2002
Hiya Pollux! I was only kidding about the trade part ... I feel exactly like you do about gifts :) I have visited several of the Italian sites and when I decide to get serious about getting this deck (I become obsessed when the time is right *LOL*), I will find a way to purchase it *LOL* .... plus I keep my eyes open on the trade section of this web site just in case someone ever puts it up for trade. As they say here in the US "one man's s&*t is anothers treasure" ;) To answer your question I am in the US and getting some of the Italian decks can be a challenge. I am a collector (50+ decks) so I am sure that one of these days I will find a copy ;) ... when I do I would love to study the deck with you. Perhaps you can even teach me to like to the Bosch deck! *ROFLAMO* Love & Light,

Pollux	17 Jan 2002
I'm flattered, really! My Venus in Leo giggles when someone flatters me, and the more they do, the more I like it! I feel just like cats, when you start caressing them, they won't just leave you in peace. MMIAOOOOOOO!!!!! I'd love to, Jewel (I love the ring of your name! :-) Jewel, Jewel, Jewel!!! :-) ) P.S. What's *ROFLAMO* ?

fairyhedgehog	17 Jan 2002
Quote: Pollux (17 Jan, 2002 23:04): Unfortunately, I'm one of those people who will never ever trade a present. It's funny, when I give a gift to someone I always hope that if they can't find a use for it they will pass it on to someone who can. A bit like the 'mathoms' in Lord of the Rings :) My 'no no' is to ever ask for a present back. My family call that 'being an indian-giver' for some reason :) All the best, FH

Pollux	18 Jan 2002
This post is straying... 8) Anyhow, I share your view on asking-back too, fairyhedgehog, but I can't think of passing presents! Maybe because I tend to receive and give things that ARE useful, after all. But the point is mostly liking presents: even though you don't, you must keep it. It feels so... badly-ominuous! ??? ???

Liliana	18 Jan 2002
Theres an old tarot tale that says your working deck should be given to you as a present, not much heeded anymore because most people cant wait to find someone willing to buy them THE deck of their dreams lol

Jewel	18 Jan 2002
Quote: Pollux (18 Jan, 2002 05:18): P.S. What's *ROFLAMO* ? ~Giggles looking up Pollux's post~ was it something I said? *LOL*. To answer your question, *ROFLMAO* means "rolling on floor laughing my ass off." FH ... like you I also feel that if someone does not like a gift I have given them to feel free and trade/exchange it. But I guess I just get somewhat sentimental about presents I receive. Love & Light,

Cerulean	06 Dec 2002
Hey Pollux, I read your review and Diane Wilkes at Tarotpassages.com...and as it reasonable for my budget now, it went with an order to Alidastore.com...they said they should have them in stock sometime next week. Did yours come with a softcover book---Vecchi's other Laura Tuan tarot with Egyptian symbols came with some beautiful packaging and a softcover small book with the casing. If people ever do get a study group together, how lovely it would be. I just love most of my celtic decks for the different ways of looking at tales...and how they might touch a tarot archetype. I've always favored the John and Caitlin Matthews authored books of Arthurian and Celtic topics, but its wonderful to get different takes on the same tales. Sometimes I go back to my Dante-inspired translations and I remember how Dante pulled up Lancelot and Guinevere at EXACTLY the right reference in Canto V. Or how Italo Calvino pulled up Orlando in love (based on Arthurian tales originally) and in madness from Boiardo and Aristo in Crossed Destinies for the final tales...seems to me celtic stories have such a great heart, that just inspire many wonderful stories. Long, sorry...but thanks for your review. Yours and Diane's review made me debate for awhile, then set it as a goal... Mari H.

Pollux	07 Dec 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Mari_Hoshizaki Hey Pollux, I read your review and Diane Wilkes at Tarotpassages.com...and as it reasonable for my budget now, it went with an order to Alidastore.com...they said they should have them in stock sometime next week. Well done!!! All tarotholics hail to the new deck! :D *LOL* Quote: Originally posted by Mari_Hoshizaki Did yours come with a softcover book---Vecchi's other Laura Tuan tarot with Egyptian symbols came with some beautiful packaging and a softcover small book with the casing. I believe the type of packaging is exactly the same. The hard flip-top box contains the cards and a thick booklet with soft cover in the same colour of the box - and with gold letters, so glitter and cute! :D *LOL* I am sorry for the booklet is in ITALIAN - unless they recently did a new english edition of which I am unaware. If you want, I can translate it in instalments, when you are researching or studying a certain card, just let me know! :) Quote: If people ever do get a study group together, how lovely it would be. I just love most of my celtic decks for the different ways of looking at tales...and how they might touch a tarot archetype. You mean a study group for Celtic Themed decks? I only have this one, and Legend Arthurian, but It would be interesting all the same. Or maybe I should pick this deck for CompTarot? Probably it would be too hard a task with the weird pip-like minors... Anyway, the majors of this deck tie in nicely with the archetypes, and as for imnors, I'd better find the time to study them in depth soon... :D *LOL* Quote: Originally posted by Mari_Hoshizaki I've always favored the John and Caitlin Matthews authored books of Arthurian and Celtic topics, but its wonderful to get different takes on the same tales. Sometimes I go back to my Dante-inspired translations and I remember how Dante pulled up Lancelot and Guinevere at EXACTLY the right reference in Canto V. Or how Italo Calvino pulled up Orlando in love (based on Arthurian tales originally) and in madness from Boiardo and Aristo in Crossed Destinies for the final tales...seems to me celtic stories have such a great heart, that just inspire many wonderful stories. Yeah, the threads of Celtic myths are disguised in many spots along literary history. I find the history of Lancelot and Guinevere as mirrored in Paolo and Francesca in the Inferno Canto V (I changed my signature, alas, did you notice? ;) *LOL* Amor che a nullo amato amar perdona...) very dramatic and strong, slightly detracting from the mythical value of the Arthurian one, tampered in its mysticism byt the christian middle age culture, but reinforced by the passionate, carnal style of Dante's poetry - as if the archetypal images were brought down to earth. The realism and the low style, real-to-life and human-ly decaying, was an important part of Dante's poetics in the Inferno. ARGH! I AM RAMBLING!!!*LOL* As for Calvino, I love him even more than Dante, and it's Castle is AWESOME I LOVE IT!!!!! Quote: Long, sorry...but thanks for your review. Yours and Diane's review made me debate for awhile, then set it as a goal... I have read Diane Wilke's review, and I find hers much more enthusiastic and encouraging then mine - could you ever believe I would put a fellow tarot-holic off a deck? I must have been sick while writing it... }) *LOL* :D I was surprised anyway, since it seems I had much more problems despite being a mothertongue than Mrs Wilkes had... Gotta take tht deck back n my hands this Xmas... :)

Cerulean	19 Dec 2002
When I get to use the Celtici--which arrived today---I think I will use it as an oracle and storytelling. It may be very loosely structured like the Caligstro in astrological assignments for the majors and some of the keywords might be like the old-fashioned European Caligstro style of fortunetelling. If so, the backwards placement of the Fool at the end of 22 might be an esoteric style. Somehow the Fool has gone through all the stages and yet retains a fresh wonder and an ever-questing heart. I believe Navigators of the Mystic Sea, a kind of Golden Dawn deck, has this structure. I'll check the little white book for the Caligstro tonight for keyword meanings. I quickly checked the minors online of the Caligstro and card 78 is the Ace of Spades---this deck has a somewhat unusual backward assignment in the minors that echoes the Etteilla divination style. The majors in the Caligstro has the pseudo-Egyptian pictures that remind me of period movies and novel covers of the 20s. Since the 1912 Caligstro (reprint by U.S. Games Inc. by permission of Modiano in Trieste) actually was an Italian deck that seems to pay homage to the the Etteilla school of Egyptian beliefs, that explains the unusual majors and minors. Laura Tuan's Egyptian deck with archiac Egyptian paintings by De Vecchi is more understandably structured in this manner. For the Celtici deck, I'm going to check my seasonal celtic-style decks to see if there is any correspondences. The Matthews' Arthurian Tarots have a very good structure of seasonal assignments and minors---but they do Pentacles for winter, Chalices for autumn, Swords for spring and Batons/Spears for summer. I may have better luck for seasonal comparisons to my other celtic deck, Greenwood...

Pollux	20 Dec 2002
Hi Mari! :) Quote: Originally posted by Mari_Hoshizaki When I get to use the Celtici--which arrived today---I think I will use it as an oracle and storytelling. Soon someone else will have a Tarocchi Celtici too... ;) *LOL* According to my experience with the deck so far, your approach to the deck is the best possible (ooops, i still haven't replied to your reading, forgive me!) - it is my opinion it is not really a tarot deck, since it has a more oracle-like structure, meanings and feel. The storytelling is a nice idea too - just guesS? It had NEVER occurred to me so far, this is pretty embarassing... *LOL* And I bet your stories with it will be neat! ;) Quote: It may be very loosely structured like the Caligstro in astrological assignments for the majors and some of the keywords might be like the old-fashioned European Caligstro style of fortunetelling. (...) Thank you for mentioning the astrological associations - I personally have never met the Cagliostro, and was rather watchful at the time. Still now, I can't make out most of them, and grasp their meaning... :( In truth, I have seen some similar associations, like Venus and Star and so on, but my frustration and disappointment was due to the utter lack of instructions in these regards in the thickish booklet provided - not a clue to them, just taking it all for granted or understood. But it was NOT! I might have been skilled enough to search information related to the Cagliostro you mention, for example, if I had been triggered in some ways. The lack of reference or referrals is to my eyes a flaw - it seems as if there's relatively little thought about them and their implementation, and the impression doubles when you just find the same stuff in old decks, with a strong esoteric base though. Furthermore, there might be certain reasons why such Cagliostro gave determined associations, but I can't see why the same should work for a Celtic themed deck, with a very very different structure from anything I have seen so far: I believe the author had a sort of moral obligation to include indicative information at least. Quote: Since the 1912 Caligstro (reprint by U.S. Games Inc. by permission of Modiano in Trieste) actually was an Italian deck that seems to pay homage to the the Etteilla school of Egyptian beliefs, that explains the unusual majors and minors. Laura Tuan's Egyptian deck with archiac Egyptian paintings by De Vecchi is more understandably structured in this manner. Yeah, no clue or word on Alliette and his deck either. I know so little about it and really dislike it, but, again, I woul have loved to study it more if I had bargained this could help my understanding of the Celtici by Tuan. And, in addition, why such a choice of an Alliette's alike basic structure? Is there a true reason for it, or just wanting to do something fancy? I could also believe she just transferred the same structure to give it coherence, without some real necessity or purpose. The lack of info in the booklet is again a push in this direction - RTFM opposite syndrome... blame the author!!! *LOL* Quote: For the Celtici deck, I'm going to check my seasonal celtic-style decks to see if there is any correspondences. The Matthews' Arthurian Tarots have a very good structure of seasonal assignments and minors---but they do Pentacles for winter, Chalices for autumn, Swords for spring and Batons/Spears for summer. I may have better luck for seasonal comparisons to my other celtic deck, Greenwood... This is hilarious *LOL* I obviously see the point in Matthew's correspondences since they are those the majority of people uses, untill they have not worked out their own at least - the usual Pagan set of directions, seasons and elements. My problems are slightly heavier also because I am a Pagan/Wiccan and therefore do feel such an "issue" strongly, and have my own beliefs and practices mostly revolving around it. As far as I have tried to enter in her mind (the booklet does give explanations here), I was not succesful to see the point at any rate... :P *LOL* As for the Greenwood, that is another outcast for me - way too weird a structure... *LOL* })

Cerulean	20 Dec 2002
Thank you Pollux! I especially am glad for your insight. I don't know much about paganism or wicca beliefs from a real Italian in Europe. While my husband has German-Irish characteristics, it's more modernly flavored by his 20th century Midwestern U.S. upbringing. So celtic writings are fascinating---but I'm not in touch with practising celtic pagans. The little that I know of the Shinto and Buddhist aspects of my cultural past, I do believe the seasonal year is very much tied to cultural observances...and I'm slowly moving toward this for balance. For instance, seasonal poems and diet/exercise changes in keeping with the heat or cold... If I can sort out any aspects that make this deck easier to read, I'll note it down here. Mari Hoshizaki

Pollux	21 Dec 2002
You are welcome for my insights, I just hope you'll find them worthy somehow - and *I* must thank *you* to for the information and suggestions provided - I might be able to take advantage of them and do some googling these holidays. :) I would love to learn more about structure and related asčects of this deck, so your notes would be so much appreciated! }) *LOL* And I love having study partners! :D *LOL* I am actually re-writing the review, one year has passed and I think there could be something else I should say, and some opinions I should add. And this thread has also helped me organize mu thoughts, so thanks for reviving it again! :*

Ophiel	21 Dec 2002
Pollux - What magick powers you yield! How did you ever get your relative to surprise you with a deck, an unusual deck? I'd think if a relative of mine got me a deck, it would be the easiest one to find, and probably from Toys R US! lol. Do you have a secret faerie passing the word along about decks you might like?

Pollux	21 Dec 2002
Ophiel I havge NO IDEA. }) If you check the date, this thread was started more or less... one year ago. :D *LOL* Some relatives just went to see an uncle living far away, and one day, while they were shopping and lookign for something the nephew and niece (me and my twin sister) could like, they spot the deck and decided to get it for me. Of course I had been raving for a while about tarot decks, and they all knew I read cards at the time, but neither of us would take me seriously... I was really taken aback by the present, as I knew it was meant to please me, and therefore they acknowledged my interest. :) I have not met Faeires yet, and I am just starting to dabble with Dragons... I bet they just got the first deck ever they spotted (and since they are pomopus most of the times, the most expensove as well... :P *LOL*) - I think I could cal it simply... LUCK! :D

Cerulean	21 Dec 2002
The lunar celtic wheel of the year has these trees and dates, some which differ from celtic tarots: http://www.earthcalendar.net/religions/celtictrees2.html I was able to locate an alternative tarot system of dates, trees, celtic runic alphabet in the Celtic Wisdom Tarot by Caitlin Matthews. I glanced through Celtic several reviews, but none of them list the dates, trees or runes that the Matthews have assigned in this tarot. Here is what I can type in the limited time (We're catching a flight in some hours): According to Celtic Wisdom: Date-Tree-Letter Samhain-Winter 11/1-Scotch Pine-Ailim/A 11/22--Gorse-Ohn/O 12/13-Heather-Ur/U 1/4-Aspen-Eodha/E 1/18-Yew-Ioho/I Imbolic-Spring 2/1-Birch-Beith/B 2/22-Rowan-Luis/L 3/1-Ash-Nion/N 4/5-Alder-Fearn/F 4/19-Williow-Saille/S Beltane-Summer 5/1-Hawthorn-Huathe/H 5/22-Oak-Duir/D 6/12-Holly-Tinne/T 7/3-Hazel-Coll/C 7/19-Apple-Quertz/Q or P or CW Lughnasa-Fall 8/1-Bramble-Muin 8/22- Ivy/Gort/G 9/11-Reed/Ngetal/Ng 10/2-Blackthorn/Straif/Str or Z 10/19-Elder/Ruis/R Laura Tuan's cards with the celtic letter and lots of pictures could be an alternative tarot oracle card draw for me on the dates listed above. I've always meant to have a 'wheel of the year' style of meditations with tarot card archetypes. The Matthews decks really work best for me as an oracle, as well...so if I list dates in a yearly almanac and keep my Laura Tuan celtici and the Celtic Wisdom decks near it, I could make it a goal to do some study on both and have two weeks per appropriate card. Hope these suggestions help. (Hey Pollux, maybe one of us can pm you on the appropriate dates and send you emails with lots of smileys and devilish grins and ask if you if you used the celtici yet...) Pollux and others, I've given up on using anything but celtic resources to explain this Italian Celtic-style deck. (I mean, don't buy the Caligstro to find out about any numbering or astrological correspondence with Laura Tuan's decks---it's not worthwhile) Happy New Year when I return, Mari H.

Cerulean	25 Mar 2004
I really like this writer's review of the deck and it reminded me of the study group and was nice to read after the end of my Celts in Ireland class: http://www.geocities.com/doctordruidphd/celtici.html Tarotpassages.com http://www.tarotpassages.com/celticituan.htm Pollux's review on aeclectic.net: http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/celtici/review.shtml

The I Tarocchi Celtici thread was originally posted on 16 Jan 2002 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.