Historical decks

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 03 Feb 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

faunabay	03 Feb 2002
After looking at a friends Visconti Sforza and Cary-Yale Visconti decks just recently I've developed an interest in the historical decks. What's everyone's opinion? I don't really know if I'd use it or just look at it if I bought one. But really liked the Cary-Yale. Of course the Cary-Yale and the Visconti Sforza are pretty expensive. Don't know if I want them that bad. !?!?! What are the more usable decks like? ie: Medieval Scapini, Visconti Gold, etc. And does anyone have the Mantegna deck? What's that like? I know it's not a true tarot deck but it looks interesting.

northsea	03 Feb 2002
The Visconti Gold is an excellent restoration of the Sforza deck, and less expensive and smaller. :)(The large U.S. Games versions of the Visconti decks look nice, too.) The Medieval Scapini is a modern neo-Medieval deck. It seems somewhat cluttered to me. Other (neo)classic decks I like are the Spanish Tarot -- a deck based on Marseilles but more colorful. :-)The Japan-made Angel Tarot is another Marseilles-based deck to consider. I also like the Soprafino-based Classical Tarot or Ancient Italian Tarot though a more-recent 19th c. deck.

fairyhedgehog	03 Feb 2002
I have the Visconti Gold and I am very disappointed with it. I am not happy with the restoration - the gold backgrounds are finely detailed but the gold details on clothes etc seem to me rather slapdash. Some of the pips have been restored upside down (as revealed by wording in French on them) which seems typical of a lack of interest in the deck by the restorers. I don't like the Devil card which is actually from a deck that was a contomporary of the Visconti deck as it did not have a Devil card. I'm thinking of trying to trade it but I only want the Arthurian deck at present (the Hallowquest one). Sorry to be so negative but this has been my most disappointing deck to date. All the best, FH

Kaz	03 Feb 2002
Lo FairyHedgeHog, So it didn't click....... I remember your 3 card new deck spread on this one. Sorry to hear you really don't like it. Kaz

numbrel	03 Feb 2002
The Medieval Scapini is one of my favorite decks, although I don't think it is "historical." I believe it Luigi Scapini created it in the 20th century (almost said this century!!!) He uses some very different imagery for his cards. The six of swords is Paul on road the Demascas, two of coins is the story of Suzanna and the Elders, and he has Rasputin as the Knight of Cups! I use it when I want to know the "ugly truth." It certainly isn't a "Ken and Barbie" deck that one of the participants on this board dislikes so much!!! ...Oh yeah, the cards are large. Almost too big for me to shuffle, but I love playing with deck. numbrel

Logiatrix	07 Feb 2002
FB, i LOVE historical and historically "styled" decks, and both the visconti and the scapini are favorites of mine. the scapini is my "main" reading deck; a happy compromise when the visconti did not seem to be connecting with my querents. i am currently working with the mantegna deck, and it is very beautiful. the different card allocations seemed somewhat daunting at first, but at only fifty cards, it's not too bad--and quite worth it. i even find that these cards work well for meditation... BTW, another historical deck worthy of interest is the 1JJ swiss tarot.

Greenman	08 Feb 2002
i love the 'historical' decks. they give a sense of reality to the tarot system. i have the large Visconti-Sforza, and it's great. and i paid no more than the average deck would cost. but the Visconti 'Gold' sucks, imo. the 'devil' in particular just doesn't fit. it is totally different in style from the rest of the deck. anyway, since the history of the tarot goes back no further than the Visconti-Sforza, i get a real charge out of using it.

Jewel	08 Feb 2002
Hi Faunabay, I do not own the Matega or any of the Visconti's although I have also been contemplating adding them to my collection (glad you asked the question). I do have the Medieval Scampini and I really like it. It is not a deck I really use much mainly because I just do not have enough time to use all the decks I have *LOL*. Considering you and I seem to like a lot of the same decks I would think it might interest you. I certainly do not regret having purchased it. One of the things I really like about it is that although the minors are pips, they are probably most illustrated pips I have ever seen (which might go to the comment posted earlier about it being cluttered). If you get it let us know how you like it. Happy hunting ;) Love & Light,

faunabay	08 Feb 2002
Jewel and numbrel, the Scapini is one I'm thinking very seriously about. I've even emailed Lee to see if he still had his to trade (haven't heard back yet though). metaz, I've wondered how the Mantegna worked. It looks really interesting too. And I am thinking about the Viscounti Gold also. Thanks for the heads up on the Devil card.

fairyhedgehog	09 Feb 2002
I believe that the Devil card in the Visconti Gold comes from another deck of the same period, as does the Tower, as these cards didn't exist in the original deck. What is the devil cards like in the Visconti Sforza deck? http://www.tarothermit.com/ has some interesting stuff about historic decks. All the best, FH

silvereye	09 Feb 2002
Is there an accompanying book with medieval scapini?

faunabay	09 Feb 2002
silvereye, no big book available just the LWB that comes with the deck as far as I know.

Lee	12 Feb 2002
Hi -- Folks who want the Mantegna should be aware that there are no negative cards, so for those who can't stand the idea of reading with a deck with all positive cards, this might not be the deck for you. It's absolutely gorgeous, by the way. The Devil card in the Visconti-Sforza deck was painted by, interestingly enough, Luigi Scapini. -- Lee

silvereye	12 Feb 2002
I think the Medieval Scapani deck looks gorgeous but the Minor Arcana seem to be very vague. The imagery doesn't evoke strong inspirations so that's what holds me back from buying the deck.

Jewel	12 Feb 2002
Quote: silvereye (13 Feb, 2002 01:37): I think the Medieval Scapani deck looks gorgeous but the Minor Arcana seem to be very vague. The imagery doesn't evoke strong inspirations so that's what holds me back from buying the deck. Silvereye, the minor arcana in the Medieval Scampini are pip cards (not fully illustrated like the Raider Waite deck). They are the most illustrated pips, but pips all the same ... that is probably why you perceive the vagueness. Lee thanks for the note on the Mantgna ... guess I need to add it to my list now :) Love & Light,

Logiatrix	14 Feb 2002
take another look... i found there to be quite a bit of detail in the medieval scapini minors. some it is quite small, and reading thru the LWB helps to know what to look for in each card. the visconti-sforza decks that i have are both with additional illustrations by "A. A. Anassatov" (i know i didn't spell that right). now i'm so confused! what version has illustrations by Scapini? the version i use is published by U.S. Games; the other one i have is a newer Llewellyn edition. i would also like to know if there is a review or article somewhere out there that explains the other diffences between the different visconti decks (carey-yale, pierpont-morgan, etc.)...?

northsea	14 Feb 2002
metaz: there's some reviews on the Cary-Yale and Sforza at www.tarotpassages.com . Most of the Cary-Yale Major cards and some of the Court cards are reproductions drawn by Luigi Scapini making it somewhat of a Scapini deck! The Medieval Scapini is perhaps more interesting in the end, but takes some study to figure out. ;D Maybe someday I'll get it! ^_^

Logiatrix	19 Feb 2002
tommy, et al., indeed, if you have the medieval scapini deck, and the time, look thru the LWB along with the cards. there are numerous details that the artist has placed throughout the deck (stuart kaplan as the emperor, for example). these are quite interesting, if you're like me, and enjoy getting inside the artist's head a bit.

Lee	19 Feb 2002
Hi -- I think the way it works is, USGames published large-size reproductions of the Sforza and Cary-Yale decks, with the missing cards illustrated by Scapini. Then, more recently, the Italian company Lo Scarabeo published the smaller Visconti Gold deck, in which has all the cards are recreated by Atanasio. Lo Scarabeo's decks were distributed in the U.S. by USGames, which is why the box says U.S. Games. However, Lo Scarabeo's decks are now distributed in the U.S. by Llewellyn, which is why the Visconti Gold decks more recently have Llewellyn on the box rather than U.S. Games. :P -- Lee

jmd	22 Feb 2002
Just a few quick notes to add to the discussion. If you have access to the S Kaplan 3 volume Encyclopedia of Tarot, then various comparisons and discussions are included on the Visconti-Sforza and Carey-Yale Tarot. With regards to the Montegna, please remember that, no matter how beautiful a deck it is, it isn't Tarot (but this shouldn't prevent anyone from obtaining it whilst it is still available). So, though the Visconti-Sforza is the historically earliest deck which remains available in a near-complete form, the historically earliest full deck which is still in print in the Marseilles.

magdalene	26 Feb 2002
[quote]fairyhedgehog (03 Feb, 2002 22:04): I have the Visconti Gold and I am very disappointed with it. I'm thinking of trying to trade it but I only want the Arthurian deck at present (the Hallowquest one). I can't imagine trading the VS-G for a Hallowquest. ouch. The VS-G attempts to restore the originals to previous glory. It has taken some liberties to be sure, but I value its connection to the origins of tarot. magdalene

Razz	03 Mar 2002
I like the Scapini deck. It actually the first deck I bought myself. Though I don't use as much for readings for others. I like the detail and depections. Though I am still a novice with doing readings I enjoy the collecting of the different decks. Razz

The Historical decks thread was originally posted on 03 Feb 2002 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.