deck genders?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 26 Apr 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

phirefly	26 Apr 2002
while discussing decks this past weekend with some friends, someone asked me if all decks have genders because i always refer to my current deck as female. i really didn't know what to say. then she asked how i knew my deck was female... and all i could answer was... "well, she's a bitch." and that's really the truth. though i suppose something about how the empress in this deck really represents what womanhood is to me might have something to do with it also, it's really more the way we interact. so i was wondering... do your decks have genders too or am i just insane? thanks :} p.s. for what it's worth, i use a gill tarot deck. we understand each other, even if she yells at me a lot for asking her things i already know the answers to.

Kiama	26 Apr 2002
I certainly am guilty of anthropomorphising my Robin Wood deck! Sometimes I call it a she, cuz it seems standard to call loved objects 'she'... (Think of bikes, boats, cars.... You always hear people referring to them as 'she'...) But I also think that the way the deck is defines whether or not we see it as a feminine deck, or a masculine deck, or a non-gendered deck... For instance, a deck with artwork like that of the Hanson Roberts would probably be seen as a more feminine deck than a deck with artwork such as that of the Dragon Tarot.... The theme may also have some bearing on this: A feminist deck such as Daughters of the Moon would certainly not be viewed as a masculine deck! I don't know if this answers your question, but I thought it would be interesting.. Kiama

Original Destiny	26 Apr 2002
I don't think of my decks as particular genders...I suppose I think of them more as a community...:TFOOL

kayne	26 Apr 2002
hmm... I don't think of my decks with genders either... although if I did I think my Cosmic Tribe would definately be a he... :P

Liliana	26 Apr 2002
Yeah if I think about it Ido considermydecks he and she, Thoth is a He, Master Tarot is a He, Cat People is a she, Conolly is a she, Spiral and World Spirit are gender neautral :) :THP

Zhritza	27 Apr 2002
Robin Wood is *definitely* a she. For some reason the Aquarian is a he, that doesn't make sense but it is... Sacred Rose is a major she. The Kalevala and the Norse are he's, even thought the Norse has pretty good gender balance for a deck using a popular, old-fashioned cultural reference. I could go on! This is fun...

Kissa	27 Apr 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Qolus I could go on! This is fun... Please, go on ! Go on !! ;) I think I agree that Robin Wood is a she. What Univeral Waite would be ?? Quite neutral to me or slightly more feminine than the RWS ... Songs of the Journey Home is most definitely a she, both women creators have put so much of their own lives in it, their faces and their firstnames also appear on some cards. Enchanted tarot by Zerner + Farber: I cannot conceive that someone would disagree if I say SHE. Hum ??? What else ? Old English is really nice as a piece of art and wonderful to look at but I haven't taken time to try and bond with it so far so I couldn't say honestly. I don't have the Old Path (on wishlist though) but as it is called "Wise Women" in Germany, I'd guess it is a she too. Kissa

Liliana	27 Apr 2002
Rohrig is definately a he, Arcus Arcanum is a he, most any cat deck is a she whereas dog decks are he, Moon Garden and Unicorn are she, Dragon is a he, Vampire I think is a he, Mage the ascention deck most assuredly is He, Art Noeveu is a she, Golden Dawn decks are he's, Gendron andMotherpeace are she's (duh), I dont own any of these, but thats the impression I get :) I think Ive reconsidered Spiral and it definately feels she, not neutral now :THP

phirefly	27 Apr 2002
you people are so neat :} one of my closest friends reads with the aquarian deck, and i also got a male vibe from it... but oddly laid back. thanks, all!

Zhritza	27 Apr 2002
On the other hand, I think a couple of my decks are so balanced that they're both genders, or no genders. Definitely the World Spirit and the Halloween. The Light and Shadow comes close to this, but I think it is ever so slightly male. The Halloween features a lot of happy-go-lucky creatures with no obvious gender (ghosts, imps, and of course bats), so maybe that explains it. The World Spirit is just too all-encompassing to feel more like one gender or the other :)

cricket	27 Apr 2002
I think the UW is a tomboyish she. The St. Petersburg is definitely a he, as is the Victoria Regina - though he is more refined and gentlemanly than most.

faunabay	27 Apr 2002
I never really thought about my decks this way, but now.....Cool!!! I like this. Liliana, the Spiral is definitely a she IMO, as is the Inner Child and the Vision Quest. The Alchemical, Cosmic Tribe and the Fanatiscal are he's though.

Zhritza	28 Apr 2002
mmmm... the Victoria Regina is a girl, to me...

faunabay	28 Apr 2002
another question for everyone that relates to the original one on gender........ Do we think of decks as male or female because the artist was a man or a woman? I started thinking about the list I had made on gender and realized it pretty much matched to the gender of the artist. I'm not saying it's because we know what gender the artist is but what they as a male or female put into the deck themselves???? Just another thought. What do you all think????

Kiama	28 Apr 2002
Faunabay: I think the reason why our deck genders fits the gender of the artist is cuz male artists have a type of artwork which is usually different to a female's. I mean, not many male artists have artwork like the Hanson Roberts, or Robin Wood.. Not many female artsist have artwork like that of Giger... Kiama

Lee	28 Apr 2002
I think it would be a very interesting experiment to show a bunch of tarot decks to a person unfamiliar with the decks and the gender of their artists, and see if they can guess which was done by a man and which by a woman. I'll bet the results would be surprising... -- Lee

Emily	28 Apr 2002
For me the Spiral, Celtic Dragon, Robin Wood and Hanson Roberts are female and the Rider Waite and Diamond are male :)

faunabay	28 Apr 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Kiama Faunabay: I think the reason why our deck genders fits the gender of the artist is cuz male artists have a type of artwork which is usually different to a female's. I mean, not many male artists have artwork like the Hanson Roberts, or Robin Wood.. Not many female artsist have artwork like that of Giger... Kiama That's exactly what I am trying to figure out (myself). But there are some that kind of stump me....like the Nigel Jackson. Is that a "he" since the artist is, or a "she"? It almost (not quite) seems like a female deck to me. And the Alchemical is another one that made me pause, but in the end I decided it was a he. This is really interesting to me. You just learn soemthing new every day don't you? LOL

Zhritza	28 Apr 2002
------------------------------------------------------------------------ Originally posted by Kiama Faunabay: I think the reason why our deck genders fits the gender of the artist is cuz male artists have a type of artwork which is usually different to a female's. I mean, not many male artists have artwork like the Hanson Roberts, or Robin Wood.. Not many female artsist have artwork like that of Giger... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote: Originally posted by faunabay That's exactly what I am trying to figure out (myself). But there are some that kind of stump me....like the Nigel Jackson. Is that a "he" since the artist is, or a "she"? It almost (not quite) seems like a female deck to me. And the Alchemical is another one that made me pause, but in the end I decided it was a he. This is really interesting to me. You just learn soemthing new every day don't you? LOL This occurred to me too, and I think it can infulence our associations; then again, I do feel that the Nigel Jackson seems like a "female" deck, and the Renaissance by Brian Williams might be too. Also the Crystal by Elisabeth Trevisan seems either androgynous or male.

Lee	28 Apr 2002
Well, I took my own advice and conducted an experiment. The subject of the experiment is my Significant Other, Larry. He's unfamiliar with the genders of the artists of my various decks (he only really likes the Universal Waite). I asked him to look through these decks and tell me which of them struck him as masculine, or feminine, or neutral. Here is what he told me (I've also included the artist's actual gender): Deck....................Larry's Impression...........Artist Gender Robin Wood.........Feminine.........................Female Hanson-Roberts...Neutral...........................Female Cosmic Tribe.........Masculine.......................Male Cat People............Feminine........................Female Connolly................Neutral..........................Male Spiral.....................Neutral..........................Female World Spirit...........Masculine.......................Female Norse....................Neutral...........................Male Songs for the Journey Home.....Feminine........................Female Rohrig...................Neutral...........................Male Gendron................Feminine........................Female Aquarian................Masculine......................Male Victoria Regina.......Feminine.......................Female Russian St. Pete.....Masculine......................Masculine Interestingly, there was only one deck, the World Spirit, where his impression of the deck gender was the opposite of the artist's actual gender. This would tend to support the theory that there is an actual objective difference between the art produced by men and women. Personally, my choices would have provided more opposites, for example Victoria Regina and Cat People strike me as masculine. Out of my own curiousity, I then asked him which decks he particularly liked or didn't like. (This is a person who really isn't into tarot, although he uses the Universal Waite once in a while.) He particularly liked the Hanson-Roberts and also said the Robin Wood was nice (he used to be bothered by the naked women but I think he's getting used to it). He thought the Russian St. Pete was a well-made deck, but not necessarily for reading. He particularly didn't like Cosmic Tribe, Songs for the Journey Home, Rohrig and Victoria Regina. Although I've said in another post that Robin Wood wasn't my favorite, looking at all these decks has given me some different perspectives... I may have to take another look at Robin Wood... sometimes I just drive myself crazy! :) -- Lee

Kiama	29 Apr 2002
Lee: Tonight, I will be doing the same as you, on my 40 yr old Mum, and my 11 and 9 year old sisters... See if age makes a difference. I might also borrow a friend from my Philosophy class (18 yrs) and my Father (60) and see what happens... Maybe our view as to whether or not a deck is Neutral, Masculine or Feminine, also depends on whether or not we like the artwork, whether or not w are female or male, and what our experience is of men and women. This is why I am interested to see what my little sisters say, compared to what my 60 year old father says! And here's the 'scientific bit': Two-tailed Hypothesis: Age will have an effect on the judgment of the 'gender' of the decks. Null hypothesis: Age will not have an effect on the judgement of the gender of the decks, and any differences found will be due to chance. Here we go! Kiama

purplelady	29 Apr 2002
I must be the only one who gets a definite male vibe from the Robin Wood (I know that the artist is female) But to me , the deck is "male".

Lee	29 Apr 2002
Hey, purplelady, I'm with you -- I think the male energies on the Robin Wood outweigh the female. -- Lee

phirefly	30 Apr 2002
wow. there is definitely a lot to think about here, and certainly more than i bargained for. some thoughts: first, i'm a bit torn on the artist gender-deck gender issue. a part of me wants to say that it is the energy that the creator puts into it that we see, but i honestly don't buy that. perhaps to the non-taroty person, the style of art does influence the judgement, as might age and gender as kiama suggested. there are a lot of possibilities, some of which might statistically prove true, though from here it seems more random and personal preference than anything else. but more importantly... point two: i think i must be insane. more precisely, i meant more the feel of the deck, rather than the appearance. i think the gill tarot (my preferred deck, which definitely gives me a female vibe) is visually neutral. also, i think that each deck, individually, will have a different personality, integrating a bit of its creator and intent and a whole lot of the reader. which isn't to say that my deck is female because i am female, but i helped mold her personality through use... maybe. i'm not sure. hrmm...

Zhritza	30 Apr 2002
Quote: Originally posted by phirefly more precisely, i meant more the feel of the deck, rather than the appearance. i think the gill tarot (my preferred deck, which definitely gives me a female vibe) is visually neutral. I don;t think this is insane at all, because I know my decks have personalities, so having genders makes sense too. However, I can't really separate the gender "feel" of a deck's imagery from the gender feel of the deck as an entity, a pal, whatever. To me, decks are their imagery...

Kiama	30 Apr 2002
Deck/ Art/Concept gen./ Nicola/ Sarah/ Lor of the Rings/ Male/ Male/ Male/ Haindl/ Male/ Male/ Female/ Spiral/ Female/ Female/ Female/ Faery Wicca/ Female / Neutral/ Female/ Universal Waite/ Male (Con.) Fe.(Art)/ Male/ Neutral/ Sacred Rose/ Female/ Unsure/ Female/ Hermetic/ Male/ Male/ Male/ Arcus Arcanum/ Male/ Female/ Male/ Cosmic/ Male/ Unsure/ Female/ Witches/ Female/ Female/ Neutral/ Medicine Woman/ Female/ Unsure/ Female/ Shakespearean/ M (Art) F(Con.)/ Male/ Male/ Thoth/ M (Con.) F(Art)/ Neutral/ Neutral/ Goddess/ Female/ Female/ Female/ Feng Shui/ F (Con.) M (Art)/ Male/ Neutral/ Daughters O Moon/ Female/ Female/ Neutral/ Celtic Wisdom/ Female/ Male/ Female/ Morgan Greer/ Male/ Unsure/ Female/ Golden D Magical/ Female/ Male/ Neutral/ Manara Erotic/ Male/ Female/ Female/ RWS/ M (Con) F (Art)/ Female/ Female/ Moon Garden/ Female/ Male/ Neutral/ Mythic/ Female/ Unsure/ Neutral/ Adrian/ Male/ Female/ Neutral/ Cosmic Tribe/ Male/ Neutral/ Male/ Orishas/ (Forgotten!)/ Female/ Female/ Druid Animal Oracle/ Male/ Neutral/ Neutral/ Angels Oracle/ Female/ Female/ Female/ Cltic Dragon/ Female/ Male/ Neutral/ Legend Arthurian/ Female/ Female/ Male/ Rorig/ Male/ Female/ Male/ Nigel Jackson/ Male/ Female/ Neutral/ More later! I have a Philosophy lesson.. Kiama

kayne	30 Apr 2002
Wow - this is really fasinating... I will have to try this out on my room mate later... This discussion provokes me to consider what the deck I am creating reflects. I think I would like 21st Century tarot to be neutral, I am making a point of depicting the same number of men and women in the majors (and will in the minors too)... I don't think you can specifically make a deck neatral though, because it really is the viewer's opinion...

Kiama	30 Apr 2002
I think the main thing that infulenced my little siterswhen they said the decks were either female or male was the gender of the people in the cards that they saw, and whether or not they liked those cards, aswell as the artwork. They both said that the Manara Tarot was female, cuz they saw cards from it (I had to be selective with this deck!) which showed women quite alot, looking all young and beautiful... The thing that surprised me was that they BOTH said the Thoth was Neutral! I would've thought they'd have said it was distinctly Male! I think to make my experiment more viable next time, when I do it on Mum, I will select the same cards from each deck which she has to look through... The Major Arcana and a few of the Minors I think... I might also ask her why she said this deck was male or female, and whether she would change her mind if I told her the deck's name. (I didn't tell Nicola or Sarah) Kiama

Liliana	30 Apr 2002
Ah I was wondering how they got female for Manara, I think if you showed them the Wheel or Hierophant the opinon would change hehe :THP

The deck genders? thread was originally posted on 26 Apr 2002 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.