Tarot question

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 14 Apr 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Spasticgirlie	14 Apr 2002
I had originally bought a deck and i am not going to use the name in case it offends people who really love the deck but from my friends and a little research I learned that the deck was not a good one to have. So now I am on a voyage to find a new deck. I looked on this website at all the tarot cards that had names that interested me and then I narrowed it down to the ones that I thought were really pretty. Then I relooked at them and have narrowed it down to two. Osho Zen tarot and dragon tarot. Eventually I will probably get both but I dont want to buy them at the same time because that will take quite a bit of money. So I am torn and I was wondering if anyone had advice on what to do with chosing and all that fun stuff. I would greatly appreciate it.

Butterfly	14 Apr 2002
Hi, umm, interesting name! sure to raise a few eyebrows! Try posting this in the tarots decks forum, you are sure to find heaps of fantastic replies. I haven't used either of them But from what I have heard Osho Zen is used more for personal growth than divination- so you might want to think about what you intend to use the cards for.

jade	14 Apr 2002
butterfly, not to worry, i'll move it for her. :) in light, jade

slinky_jo	16 Apr 2002
...just do what I did - sell all your cds so you can buy 4 decks... heh heh - tis true! :P

Kiama	16 Apr 2002
Hi SpasticGirlie! Well, I agree with what Butterfly said about the Osho Zen. Although the artwork is immensely beautiful, it is mainly used for growth. It is very difficult to use in readings, as it doesn't use the 'traditional' symbolism of the Tarot, an the accompanying book is more about the Osho Zen teachings than how to read the cards themselves. It would probably be easiest for you to get a deck which sticks mainly to the conventional Tarot deck, y'know, the Majors are in the conventional order, the conventional names, the conventional meanings... That way, when you get new decks, you can adapt to them easier. The Osho Zen is very good as a collector's deck, but not as one of your first reading decks. The Dragon is one that I have heard good things about. I had a friend who used this one exculsively, and gave very good readings with it. But in the end, its all up to you! You don't have to do anything I say. Good luck! Kiama

MystiqueMoonlight	16 Apr 2002
Sorry Kiama, please don't hate me but I have to disagree with you on the Osho Zen opinion. Well at least partly anyways. The Osho Zen is (I believe) a great deck to use for beginners. The artwork is precise and to the point whilst the keywords on each card really does help you to focus on the cards meaning/purpose. It actually does relate to a traditional deck albeit on a Zen level. For example: The majors in this deck are the ones with Roman numerals. Card number VII Awareness is The Chariot and card number XIII Transformation is Death. The minors are all seperated into the 4 elements air, fire, water and earth (rainbows in the Osho Zen) Each card in the minors are numbered as per a traditional deck inside a coloured diamond representing that element (red for fire, grey for air, blue for water, rainbow for earth) with the court cards being indicated with a triangle in this coloured diamond (upwards for King, downwards for queen, to the right for page and to the left for knight) the blank coloured diamond is the ace. I have done readings for many people with this deck and quite accurately. Of course being Zen focused they do tend to direct the querent to more psychological matters, but they can also pinpoint a certain person, time or event if used correctly or in the right layout. Incidently I love the devil card which is XV Conditioning. They're a beautiful and very direct set to work with which can easily be interpreted. However I must say that if you decide to then move onto a Rider Waite or Thoth type deck afterwards your experience with the Osho Zen would not be a good foundation. Best of luck with whatever deck you choose. My suggestion is to go with the deck that strongly appeals to you at this time SpasticGirlie (perhaps you could reconsider your handle). Whichever one you think about the most as having at this time may be the one you should have. Ultimately over time and with experience you may change decks many times over. Blessed be.....

Jenny-Li	16 Apr 2002
Hi Spasticgirlie! Not that I want to question your decision to scrap your first deck (I did that with my first, I bought it in a Spanish department store, and I think that one was more meant as a game deck than a reading deck, so that's what it is now, for playing games only!), but you were being so secretive I just had to comment: What makes the deck a good one or not is what YOU think of it, how it feels to YOU when you use it. Not what your friends tell you, or what you read in any book. Then of course there are decks that would seemmore or less easy to get started with, for example decks with not just pips for the minor arcana cards, and images that are not only pretty but also get your intuition going. I mean that's what it's all about, if the "ugliest" deck of them all is the one that does it for you, then that is the one that is right for you, not necessarily the prettiest one...! I personally have the Buckland Romani deck, which is incredibly beautiful, I just adore the artwork in that deck, and I know that many people find this to be their favourite deck - but it just doesn't do it for me. So my only advice to you is: just remember to listen to yourself, because you are the only one who can find that perfect deck for you! Love and light - and good luck in finding your deck! Jenny :)

Kiama	16 Apr 2002
Hi MystiqueMoonlight! The question I am raising is would you have been able to understand the correspondances of the Osho Zen with the traditional Tarot, if you didn't know what the traditional Tarot was? If you hadn't had very much experiecne with the traditional correspondacens, would you have been able to pinpoint the similarities between what the Osho Zen deck says about, say, the Devil, and what the RWS says about it? I wouldn't. I have a couple of friends who have had no contact with any other decks but this one... They had a pretty hard time trying to adapt to any other decks, cuz the Osho Zen is very specific, not universal. I also think that, whilst keywords are okay to begin with, they can limit you. When you progress in understanding of Tarot, you don't need the keywords anymore, but there you are, stuck with them on the cards themselves... You make some good points though. (And I love the representation of the Devil in the Osho Zen deck too! It really speaks to me!) Kiama

Lee	16 Apr 2002
Quote: Originally posted by MystiqueMoonlight It actually does relate to a traditional deck albeit on a Zen level. For example: The majors in this deck are the ones with Roman numerals. Card number VII Awareness is The Chariot and card number XIII Transformation is Death. I'm afraid I have to respectfully disagree that the Majors relate to a traditional deck. At least, some do but others don't. For example, cards like VII Awareness for the Chariot, or V No-thingness for the Pope/Hierophant, or I (I forget the title) for the Magician, don't seem to relate at all to their traditional counterparts, or if they do, I'm missing the correlation. In fact, I count five of the Majors in this deck that seem to me completely non-relatable to the traditional Majors. MystiqueMoonlight, I would be very interested to know if you have figured out a way to correlate them, and I would love it if you would explain it to me, 'cause I haven't been able to. Lee

sarahenglish	16 Apr 2002
Hi Spasticgirlie, I am new to tarot and the first deck I bought was Crystal. While I found (still do) the cards to be beautiful, I realized that a more traditional deck would be better for me to learn with because all of the pip cards have the symbolism on them. So, I went and got the Universal Waite Deck for learning purposes. The more I have learned, the more I have liked the deck. So my advice is to get a copy of a traditional tarot deck for learning and then expand from that to what turns you on aesthetically.

Logiatrix	16 Apr 2002
SG, i agree with Sarah. if there's a non-traditional deck you are absolutely enamored with, invest also in a standard RWS deck for correlation and study. i was bothered by the osho deck, because it intertwined taoism with zen, which somewhat inauthenticated the theme for me. this is a common occurence when zen is presented to the western mind, however, so...whatever. the dragon tarot is equally attractive and much more "tarot-ish". it does not have highly pictorial minors, though. that is, the activities depicted in these cards are not very indicitive of the card meanings. BTW, you will not offend people here when it comes to favorite decks, etc. we're all quite thick skinned, and we all have demonstrated significant diplomacy when we disagree about such subjective issues as "the best tarot"... :)

Kiama	16 Apr 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Lee or I (I forget the title) for the Magician, don't seem to relate at all to their traditional counterparts, or if they do, I'm missing the correlation. It took me a while to work this one out. The title of the Osho Zen deck for the Magician is 'Existence'. This makes sense only when you look at the traditional magician as being the first spark.. The first stage in the journey. Its basically when the essence (The Fool) actually takes some semblence of form... (The magician) and is first able to create and manipulate his surroundings (The things on the table of the Magician) Hope this helps! Kiama

Spasticgirlie	16 Apr 2002
LoL, Sorry to laugh but the first deck that I ever had my hands on was the RWD. That is because it was my dads. Now this is why I laugh, I have long lost this deck, so Im thinking that this deck kinda just isnt for me. Also I dont remember really being drawn to this deck either. On the other hand when it comes to the tarot decks that I was having trouble deciding between I decided that I will get all of them just slowly. Basically I am gonna pick up dragon tarot at a nearby store (if it is still there) and then I am also going to eventually get celtic dragon tarot and osho zen. They were just too difficult for me to choose between.

Spasticgirlie	16 Apr 2002
Also about my first deck, I got rid of it because after I found out who the creator of my cards was (my friends told me) I didnt feel comfortable even having them around anymore. These cards infact scared me and this other person at the same time. So thus and some of you may shudder, we are disposing of these cards soon, very soon.

Butterfly	16 Apr 2002
SG , I'd be very curious to know what causes you to shudder about either Waite or Coleman Smith. I know only a little about either of these two, but what i do know doesn't concern me at all. Can I ask about the origins of your name- I don't know whether to be offended or inspired? LOL In light,

Spasticgirlie	17 Apr 2002
Please take no offense at my name butterfly. It basically is just my personality. I spaz out about a lot of stuff. I came up with it when I was thinking of a new email addy. And I dont shudder at rwd. Im sorry if I made it sound like that. I dont like saying the deck name or the author of the deck that I dont like. But I can give you a hint the author created his own religion and the deck is named after an egyptian god...........sorry if i made it sound different.

MystiqueMoonlight	17 Apr 2002
Goodness me what a can of worms you have opened here SpasticGirlie *giggling* First all of it's Ok for you to mention the deck that made you feel uncomfortable. I think we are all relatively friendly enough to accept your personal views. But in case we can't coax it out of you I'll save you the trouble *smile*. The deck is the Thoth Deck by Alester Crowley. I'm a reader of this deck and I am certainly not offended by you on this issue. I'm sure no-one else would be either. However in it's defense I simply have to clear up two points you make concerning it. Firstly Crowley didn't actually create his own religion. He was actually initiated into the Hermetic Order of The Golden Dawn in 1898. Yes he was a very "unique" person and there certainly are a lot of myths surrounding his character. He had a very inflated ego (apparently) and was known to be "extremely lazy". There is certainly no evidence of any kind of the stories surrounding his practice in magick. The deck called Thoth which means "wisdom" is based upon the Qabala and Tree of Life which has a Hebrew background. It is said that Moses received the information on this when he received the 10 commandments from God. This is relevent because Moses was infact an Eqyptian Magi. Alester Crowley did not paint the cards it was done by a Lady Frieda Harris who was the wife of a politician and had no prior knowledge as to the esoterical purposes of Tarot or the Golden Dawn. She was a very talented artist who was enlisted by Crowley to paint the deck. What was planned to be only 3 months took them 5 years. It is a very informative deck, not only from a reading view point but as to a symbolic and esoteric value as well. Personally I find some of the RW clones a little "scary", but of course now I'm just talking about the badly thought out ones *laughing* Anyways stick around and please always feel free to express yourself (but of course in the nicest possible way). We don't bite here.... Blessed be.

MystiqueMoonlight	17 Apr 2002
Kiama, I'm glad you didn't take offense to my reply on the Osho Zen issue *grin*. I agree with the points you made in your last statement. I suppose I was eventually trying to raise that point as well in my last paragraph, but maybe not so clearly. Lee, Perhaps this is not the thread to discuss further the Osho Zen deck. Maybe we should start another on it so that everyone else who has this deck can have their input too if they like? blessed be

Jewel	17 Apr 2002
Hi SG, please do feel free to express your opions here, we are an open group. As long it is done in a respectful manner no one will get defensive ;). I would like to suggest that you look at some past threads that might help you gain a bit more information regarding the Thoth deck as well as how some forum members feel about deck creators and using certain decks. Just browse through older posts and you will find these threads. They were very interesting and educational. Here at Aeclectic we acknowledge and respect our differences, and we like to know peoples opinions and thoughts :)

sarahenglish	17 Apr 2002
Ummm if you're going to get rid of it anyway......I'd love to have it. Could I buy it form you? If I can afford it. I am dying for the Thoth deck!

Spasticgirlie	20 Apr 2002
SE Im sorry but I no longer have the deck in my possession........a friend more experienced than I in these matters has it in his possession because I didnt feel comfortable having it around. My friend and I had a relatively bad experience with thoth, but the person who had the reading given to him didnt exaclty believe in all the tarot stuff so nothing is yet to happen. But SE I run into this deck almost every place that sells tarot, so it shouldnt be too hard for you to find it. And it is a very beautiful deck.

phirefly	26 Apr 2002
i bought the osho zen deck (my second) a while back at a friend's recommendation. i really loved the imagery and the energy i got from the deck, however we really didn't mesh. despite my natural tendencies towards zen philosophy, i found this deck lacked a sort of balance that i needed in my decks. it had a very positive feel. so... i gave it to my brother, and he just adores it. they work so well together :} the deck i use now... well, i just knew it was the deck for me from the moment i saw it, but i'm not sure everyone is going to have that sort of luck finding a deck. if you have a local witchy shop, stop in there... many shops have sample decks that you can look at and feel.

Spasticgirlie	27 Apr 2002
Woohoo witchy shops. They are just soooo much fun to look at everything!

The Tarot question thread was originally posted on 14 Apr 2002 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.