Morgan Greer

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 30 Jun 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Emily	30 Jun 2002
For the last day or so I've had the Morgan Greer on my mind. It was the deck that I nearly ordered before I changed my mind and ordered the Robin Wood (bad choice). Who uses this deck? Is it a good deck to read from? I like Rider Waite clones so the symbolism should be easy to use with it. Are there are drawbacks? I am feeling drawn to this deck but I don't want to make the same mistake as I made with the Robin Wood.

Dark Inquisitor	30 Jun 2002
I love my Morgan Greer deck- never regretted buying it. The more you use it, the more you appreciate the beautiful and dramatic images. I love that the faces look as good as everything else. Some decks are lovely, but the faces are just badly drawn and poorly proportioned, which sort of ruins it for me. The coloring is brilliant , which can be a nice change. (My favorite cards in this deck are the Tower, Lovers, 9 of Pentacles, and the Ace of Cups.) Tarotphelia

Emily	30 Jun 2002
I must admit that the faces draw me on this deck too, its the same with the Spiral, very well drawn faces but the Morgan Greer faces always seem to look at you lol I've seen scans of the whole deck at tarot.com and I am that little bit nearer to ordering it lol thanks :)

Keslynn	30 Jun 2002
I'm a Morgan Greer fan too. In fact, it was my first RW deck. I love the colors and some of the cards are simply brilliant as far as imagery. I especially love the Wheel of Fortune. I think it gets the point across much more clearly than the traditional RW one. I haven't read with it for a while but it's not because I don't like it. I just have too many decks to explore right now. But I'm sure I will get back to my Morgan Greer at some point. :) Kes

Lee	30 Jun 2002
I really like the Morgan Greer but I don't use it 'cause that Devil card is way scary! :( -- Lee

truthsayer	30 Jun 2002
if you like rws clones but not pagan ones like the robin wood then i say give the morgan greer a try. i never thought i'd like it but the colors and the way the image covers the whole card is really appealing. if you have ever read geraldine amaral's book-tarot celebrations then you'll see that it's her primary deck and the deck she uses thru out the book. i bought the book first and i liked what i saw so i traded for the deck.

Jimilyn	30 Jun 2002
My Morgan-Greer was the third/fourth deck I bought (I bought both it and the Hanson-Roberts at the same time). I absolutely love this deck. It handles well, looks stunning, and actually asks me to read with it. I had all my decks in a pile on my bed. When I came back into the room, all the decks were there in the nice, neat pile and the Morgan-Greer was now several inches away from the rest of the pile. So I picked it up and did a reading with it. A fabulous reading that went straight to the heart of an issue...right on target. Jimilyn

Dark Inquisitor	30 Jun 2002
That devil card is perfectly glorious ! Not that I am in favor of the devil in the least, but if you're going to have one he should be all he can be! If you have a bad reaction to a card, it may have something to say to you. Just a thought. Tarotphelia

Emily	30 Jun 2002
Well I cracked lol - just ordered the Morgan Greer, with its book, from Amazon - but they are waiting for the deck to come in so by the time it gets here, I'll be ready for it (Maybe my Spiral won't get jealous) :)

Zhritza	05 Jul 2002
good move. it is so easy to use, and yet never ever simplistic.

Sorceress_Jade	06 Jul 2002
I just picked this one up for the first time today. I have only messed with it a little but guess which card was one of the ones that I got... the devil. I was very curious to find it so different from the RW, i mean, it's the same idea yes, but a very different image too. The 'manipulation' is less obvious in this card for me and it has a more malicious feel. But I found it lovely and well suited anyway. The Morgan greer is like a zoomed in RW, and then of course there are some that are different. So far this deck seems to want to be more of a conciounce type of guide, then an unbiased informant. We're still deciding if we get along ;) Good luck with yours tho, let us know how it goes.

the hermit	08 Jul 2002
Though my favorite reading deck is the Universal Waite (with Mary Hansen-Roberts great pastel colorings), the deck I use for Magick is the Morgan-Greer. It's imagery is perfect for ritual use. If I couldn't use the Universal deck for readings, my next choice would be the Morgan-Greer.

Emily	23 Oct 2003
I had my Morgan Greer come this morning and thought I'd do a search on it and look what I found lol - 15 months ago I tried to order this deck, Amazon cancelled the order (they couldn't get the deck at that time) and I forgot all about it. I think it was when I was still using the Spiral and experimenting with other decks, Crow's Magick, Celtic Dragon. I can only just remember ordering it, I don't remember this thread at all lol Well this time round the deck and book set came in 1 1/2 weeks, and I should have persevered 15 months ago. When I opened it first it had the feel of an honest deck, its very in your face - the colours are bright but muted, the cards are standard sized, the same size as the Universal Waite, card stock thin and flexible and very slippy, I've had this deck shoot off across the table a couple of times lol. It feels very masculine, its not fluffy at all - it actually feels like one of those decks that won't pull its punches. It does actually invite you in - I had a mental image of a door opening and a voice saying, 'If you want to learn come on in'. I think this would be a good deck for a beginner it follows Rider Waite symbolism but its also a good deck in its own right. The book that comes with the set was I thought at first very basic until I started to read, its very informative with as few words as possible, now this isn't a bad thing, it doesn't waffle on just points out things on the cards, especially the colouring of the cards which is important, and then meanings. It a good book without reading pages of information which you won't remember after putting the book down. I do like this deck and after struggling with the Haindl its a change for me to pick a new deck up and be able to read with it straight off, especially as I seem to be having a readers block with my other decks - I do feel like going straight back to what I know I can read with, I studied the Rider Waite and its never really left me, and this is the type of deck I can read with. So again who else uses this deck, I first asked this question over 15 months ago lol

Dark_angel	23 Oct 2003
I learned to read using a Morgan-Greer deck, although I don't actually own one (it's my boyfriend's, and he lets me use it, so there wouldn't be much point in me buying one). I love the Swords cards in this deck; they're so clearly done. I have to admit though, I don't read with it very often anymore; the Judeo-Christian imagery wasn't really my thing. I still really like the deck. xxx

Sulis	23 Oct 2003
I almost bought this deck a couple of years ago as well but didn't. Every time I fance a new deck this one gets looked at and then dismissed. I really like the '70s feel it's got and I also like the fact that the cards have no borders. There was a programme on TV last week called Jane Goldman Investigates and it featured tarot. This deck was one of the decks they used and it got me thinking about it again, I'm really tempted to order it. Congratulations on your new deck Emily. Love and light Sulis xx

Le_Corsair	23 Oct 2003
When I first discovered Aeclectic, one of the first things I did was submit a review of the Morgan-Greer. I just pulled the deck out of the bottom of my deck box where it has nestled among the whole cloves for months, and now smells wonderful. Taking another look at the deck in comparison to decks I have bought since, I am struck by how masculine this deck is, and how handsome; I need to start reading with it again. My old peeve card, Death, is in front of me; I got rid of that stupid white square at his collar with a sharpie, so he doesn't look like a Catholic priest anymore, but I did notice that his right hand is drawn incorrectly; on a scythe, the right hand curls under the handle, not over it. This deck is so popular that US Games sells it in languages other than English. I think maybe I'll buy another copy, with titles in French. Thanks for starting the thread back up! Bob :THERM

lark	23 Oct 2003
I was so happy to see someone talking about one of my favorite decks. I read with this deck all the time. You're right it doesn't pull any punches. If someone sits down in front of me for a reading and folds there arms across there chest with that "OK just try and read me" attitude, Morgan Greer is is the deck they're going to get. The simple yet compelling art work draws them in. The fabulous rich color, and the way there are no borders on the cards, are two of my main criteria for the perfect deck. I also like that the minors have no words on the cards just a small roman numeral at the top. At first I didn't think I'd like it but it has proven to be a plus in intuitive reading. Less clutter more picture. And their so richly illustrated and easy to read I don't even notice it any more. My favorite cards are hard to pick... The 9 of pentacles- look at the rich purple on that card! The 3 of cups- remind me of the three graces, just beautiful. The Queen of swords- never my favorite in any other deck but so well done here. The use of the rose , beauty yet thorns, and her cockle burr hat. It represent her personality so well and in the beautiful way she deserves. I don't like the 7 of pentacles- it reminds me of my old high school boy friend (don't ask.) But other than that I love them all even the devil! Enjoy your new deck. It's exciting to feel that there's someone else out there that is appreciating and using a deck that I hold so dear. They get very comfortable to shuffle after awhile, and mine have worn well. The stars on the back have an almost hypnotic affect when you shuffle. At first when I saw the backs I thought they looked cartoony, but now I love them. One of my favorite decks to sit and shuffle just for the plain comfort it gives me. Thanks emily for giving me the chance to gush on and on about one of my babies. Nameste

Voodoo_Shaman	23 Oct 2003
For about 13 years I used the Rider Waite, and then for 7 years New Orleans Voodoo Tarot, those where the only two decks I would use. If I purchased other decks, it was mainly for collecting them, and to get more prospective and different approaches in seeing the images in the Rider Waite. Know I have three decks that I mainly use. 1. The Rider Waite (Universal and the Radiant) 2. The Tarot of Prague And just recreantly I received the Morgan Greer in a trade here, and it has become my most used deck. I love this deck, the colors are vibrant. We Latino love Loud and colorful decks, hence why the Radiant Rider, and the Morgan Greer are my ultimate favorites. And I love them to pieces. I would like to add a comment to the member, Le_Corsair whose opinion on the death card I respect. But can I add my two cents. The image of the Death Card wearing a Traditional Catholic Priest’s Habits really works for me. One it really reminds me of an ancient Aztec Goddess, who has grown in popularity within the Latino community. Her name is La Santisima Muerte, or in English. Our Lady of Death. Her statue resembles the Virgin Mary, but her face and hands are that of a skull, skeleton. There is a deeper meaning here, and those who know the mysteries of both the Aztec Goddesses Santisima Muerte, and even Our Lady of Guadalupe know, that the Ancient gods will survive even if they have to hide in Catholic images. When I look at the white habit on the image of the Death card, I find it brilliant, and represents that from change comes rebirth. The Catholic religion has tried to discredit and even try to make the ancient Gods, and Goddesses disappear. But to no success. The Card of Death, represent change, maybe sometimes even by force. Or an ending of old ways to begin new ways. Something that Christianity has tried to do with many Indigenous and African faiths in the New World, but mostly with no success. But thank you for pointing the hand, never noticed before, thought it was really funny. Anyway I am off track. I love the Morgan Greer Tarot, the backs I am not to crazy about. And the only card that really bugs me is the 9 of coins. Reminds me of the Charlatan t.v. psychic, what was her name, the one with the fake Jamaican accent? Cleo.... Anyway, that is the only card, I like the Devil card, works for me. Also notice how the colors really work as far as the lack of symbols. The Green on the devil reminds me of Material Greed and envy. Blood Red, for morning and sadness is used for the Death card, and 9 of swords. Black, for negative emotions, or betrayal is used for the Tower and the 10 of Swords. Orange for abundance and strength is used in the Chariot. And Royal Purple for Materialism is used in the annoying 9 of coins. Well enjoy the Morgan Greer, it is a gem of a deck. Voodoo Shaman

Moongold	23 Oct 2003
I didn't like the RWS initially and bought the Morgan Greer because in many ways it parallels the RWS and I knew I could use it with 78DW and other RWS based books I was reading at the time. I love this deck. The images are strong and the colour is glorious. The overall effect is enhanced by not having borders as well. I love the Death card, the High Priestess card and the Strength card. It is a good deck to use with others as well. Gives very clear, calm and uncluttered messages. Hope you enjoy it!

Emily	24 Oct 2003
I love the colouring of this deck too, many of the cards feature plants, tree's or flowers. I like decks that have well drawn faces, and expressions - infact the whole artwork of this deck is excellent. I couldn't pick a favourite card yet, I like them all - even the Devil card which might have been why I didn't try harder to get this deck 15 months ago but now I've grown, used other decks and this Devil doesn't bother me as much. There are too many positive cards in this deck to let one like the Devil change my opinion of it. I used the spread sheet that came with the set late last night to do a celtic cross of my life/home situation (things happening around me that are making my life difficult to say the least) I don't usually like using the celtic cross but this one made sense, and the cards looked lovely spread out over the table. I haven't sat down and gone through it yet, looked the cards over, but when I have I'll post in the readings forum. But when I see 7 Rods, Hanged Man, 4 and 6 Swords included I think its going to be an interesting reading. I didn't do a new deck spread with it, I don't feel the need - I think we are going to get on. :) Edited to add:- Hi Sulis, Yes I saw the tarot programme last week too, noticed that she was recommended to buy the Original Rider Waite (yuck) - She should have just got the standard Rider Waite, much better colouring and then saw the deck that the lady tarot reader was using, can't remember her name - she made it look so pretty on tv and it got my interest in the Morgan Greer going again. :)

Shade	24 Oct 2003
I bought the Morgan Greer because I was starting to do readings at high school dances and I wanted to use a RWS style deck but not the RWS itself as it's a deck a lot of high school students own that one. I found that when looking into the deck the book Spiritual Tarot has been helpful when trying to digest the art that separates it from the RWS. For example what's with the fly of the Devil card? The book helped me begin to ask the right questions of the deck.

Sulis	24 Oct 2003
Well, I've just gone and ordered it, ooh I'm very excited, I haven't had a new tarot deck in months. Love and light Sulis xx

Emily	24 Oct 2003
Hi Sulis, Did you order the book and deck set? On amazon UK they have a wait of 4 to 6 weeks for the deck (around £15.00) on its own, the book and deck set is only around £20.00 and takes about 10 days I think. I wondered why this deck was more expensive than others, didn't want to wait 4 to 6 weeks so ordered the book/deck set. It's packaged nicely, the deck has its own box and both deck, book and spread sheet fit in a cardboard sleeve. Hi JohnnyVoodoo, Is the book 'Spiritual Tarot' based on the Morgan Greer or the writings of Paul Foster case. I've read in the LWB that this deck is a mix of Waite and Paul Foster Case.

Moongold	24 Oct 2003
It is really nice to see people becoming so enthusiastic about the Morgan Greer. I have just been given a copy of the delightful Tarot of Prague, have purchased a copy of the Conver Marseilles and am exploring these at the moment, as well as the Ancestral Path, but it is lovely to see the interest here in the Morgan Greer. I didn't get the book so it's interesting the Paul Foster Case association. Thanks Emily :)

Sulis	24 Oct 2003
Emily I ordered the deck on its own from one of Amazons' market place sellers for £10. There was a used copy for £6 which I thought was a bit of a bargain but I've only ever had used decks in trades so I opted for the new one. I'll let you know what I think when it gets here. You wouldn't believe how many times I've almost bought this deck. I'm really glad I've finally gone for it. Love and light Sulis xx

Emily	24 Oct 2003
Hi Sulis, Yes I noticed the Morgan Greer in the market place sellers too, then I got sidetracked by the set which included the book - I was going to get the book on its own so I thought I'd treat myself :D to an early Christmas present. Just as an afterthought, the deck also came with two LWB's, so someone out there has got a Morgan Greer without one lol

Shade	24 Oct 2003
Emily, Spiritual Tarot actually has three authors (Echols, Mueller and Thompson) and it is illustrated with three different decks, the RWS the Aquarian, and the Morgan Greer. It goes into the symbolisnm used in all three decks for each card.

Chronata	24 Oct 2003
I read through this thread rather quickly at first, not really giving it my full attention...and then I realized that everyone who replied was absolutely gushing over the wonders of this deck. Hmmm...I thought, I used to read with that deck a long long long time ago. but I can't seem to recall the images right now...(even though many of you give such eloquent descriptions of certain cards!) So I got up and went over to the Big Collection O' Tarot, and looked for it. At first, I couldn't find it...which is kinda funny since it lives in this bright blue box with big white letters on the side that say MORGAN GREER TAROT. So, I take it off the shelf (blowing the dust off the top of the box.) Ah! This is one of those older copies...before US Games started to distribute it... And I open the box... And I am absolutely struck by the beauty of the card that is looking at me! The 3 of pents! Oh I love this card! And suddenly I recall that this deck was one of the reasons why I love this card! And then I sift gently through the rest of the deck... oh oh OH!...I remember now! THIS deck! Oh how wonderful the images on this deck are! The Hanged Man, looking like a Civil War soldier...the golden & stern Emperor, The joy on the faces of those three Maidens on the 3 of cups, and the greenman peeking out on the 4, and the page of Rods looking all cocky with that hat pulled over his eyes... Oh how I missed this deck! I must do some readings with it again! Very soon! Thank you everyone here for reminding me of this wonderful little jewel that has been sitting there, all patient, waiting for me to polish it and show it off again! (I have to add, I just recently went through this same sort of thing with my old Aquarian deck, too. It just goes to show ya, that I don't need a new deck, that all I need to do is go through my collection and rediscover my old treasures!!) Thanks again, guys!

Voodoo_Shaman	24 Oct 2003
I don’t know, but to be honest, with all these gimmick tarots coming out. Sometime we forget the beauty of the classics. And Morgan Greer, although published only in the 70’s, is a classic. It’s images are timeless, and work today, and are as beautiful today as they were when they where first published. The images on this deck can stand up to and even blow away these newer computerized images. (With exception to the Tarot of Prague, which is also beautiful) Anyway, it is timeless, and I highly recommend it to all. Here are links that show the whole deck. Just click the link. Also I do not own the book, is it a good book? http://www.angelpaths.com/decks/morgangreer/index.html

lark	24 Oct 2003
The sound of alot of clapping!

Emily	26 Oct 2003
Hi JohnnyVoodoo, Yes think I've added Spiritual Tarot to my wishlist, maybe for Christmas :) The book by Susan Gerulski-Estes which is included in the deck set and for sale on its own is a small thin book - 96 pages. When I first saw it I was a little disappointed, I was expecting something with a little more substance but saying that she really goes into great detail with as little words as possible (if you know what I mean) - she writes of the Four of Swords - ' A knight is lying down by a window, which suggest separation from the outside world. The sky is misty and grey. One sword hovers above the knight while two others hover between him and the window. One sword is suspended outside the window in the mist. Autumn oak leaves and ripened acorns lay by his helmet. Interpretation- Retreat from the outside world to rejuvenate emotional abnd physical strength. Reevaluation of thoughts and life in peaceful surroundings. Reversed- Remaining in unsatisfactory surroundings. The postponement of an action or decision that must be made. (Quoted from The Book of Tarot by Susan Gerulskis-Estes). She goes into a little more detail with the Majors, Astrological and numerical influence, the colours used on the cards and describes what your seeing when you look at them. Illustrated with little black and white pics of the cards also. I do like this book, sometimes books contain so much information that your forget half of it when you put them down but this one is more like a stepping stone - Being used to Rider Waite images anyway, although some of these cards are very different, I'm finding that the cards are being very easy to read, I love the artwork, it feels like a really old deck even though I know its fairly modern, I can't understand now why I left it 15 months before trying to get this deck again. Some of my other decks especially those that are not quite traditional can be a trial to use and you could stare at them forever and not get what they are trying to say, the Morgan Greer isn't like this - these cards are very readable, ok i might not get what they are saying straight away lol, but they always have something to say. :D Edited to add:- Kabalah, tarot origins, structure of the cards, the Celtic Cross spread and two other basic ones, quick guide on how to read, storage of cards, are also included in the book - again without waffling on.

Hedera	26 Oct 2003
The Morgan-Greer was one of the first decks I bought. I used it a lot for doing the excersises in Mary K. Greer's Tarot for Yourself, then it slowly got pushed into the background by all those shiny new decks I aquired.... :D This thread made me pull it out again and look at the cards. I still like this deck a lot, even the Death and the Devil card. I like the artwork, the colours and the solid, saturated feeling the images have. The Moon, I think, is absolutely gorgeous. The 4 of Cups is great, too. Not too keen on the Sun though, but I can live with that. The only card I do have a problem with is the 9 of Swords. I find it strange that in such a RWS-like deck this image all of a sudden is totally changed. I'm rather fond of the RWS picture for this card, and I miss it. Also, the meaning seems a little bit too close to the 8 of Swords now. Does anyone have a way of interpreting the 8 and 9 of swords in the Morgan Greer that make the a little more distinct?

Sulis	26 Oct 2003
Hedera, how about using the Thoth key word of cruelty to interpret the Morgan Greer 9 Swords. I think that the image of the tied hands with the swords could go very well with this key word. Swords represent the mind, thought etc, so combined with the image leads you to mental cruelty, being too hard on yourself, judging yourself too harshly, worry. Love and light Sulis xx

Hedera	26 Oct 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Sulis Hedera, how about using the Thoth key word of cruelty to interpret the Morgan Greer 9 Swords. I think that the image of the tied hands with the swords could go very well with this key word. Swords represent the mind, thought etc, so combined with the image leads you to mental cruelty, being too hard on yourself, judging yourself too harshly, worry. Love and light Sulis xx Sulis, could you maybe explain that a little bit more? I don't quite grasp what you mean. :) Couldn't he just use the swords in front of him to cut the ropes? Judging yourself too harshly is what I usually think of for the 8. I just keep looking at the card and thinking; it looks just like a close-up from the 8 of Swords...

Moongold	26 Oct 2003
9 Swords Another way of looking at this is contolled thought. Although this image implies enforced control or mental slavery. One can be enslaved by self - ignorance, addiction, negative thinking. One can also be enslaved by others, This card a strong impression of mental imprisonment but there is also a strong possibility of self liberation. One would be hurt, scarred in that liberation (try cutting those ropes without getting hurt!) but that's life. I think this card is such a GOOD depiction of the above issues. In 9 Swords one only sees the bound hands. The mental suffering has the possibility of finishing. In 8 Swords, the woman's whole body is bound and she is blindfolded. I think she is more powerless than 9 Swords. There is a far greater feeling of entrapment, mental entrapment.

Sulis	27 Oct 2003
First Hedera I'll apollogise in advance in case I can't articulate what I mean very well, I seem to have a block between brain and hands and have trouble getting things either down on paper or onto a computer screen but I'll try to tell you what I mean. 8 Swords - mental interference, there is a choice but you find it difficult to make a decision, you move backwards and forwards, not knowing which way to go. Not knowing what to say to make it right. But take a mental step back and look, your binding is quite loose, there is a way out through those swords, step carefully and you won't cut yourself. 8s in this deck relate to strength and 8s are about solidity but with movement, you are hemmed in, you can however find the strength to loosen the bonds yourself, remove the blindfold and move forward. 9 swords - mental cruelty, self critisism, once again you are paralysed but this time it's harder to cut the ropes which are binding you for they are around your wrists and how can you cut ropes around your own wrists without injuring yourself? The swords are there, tantalisingly close but how to use them? I also see the swords as your thoughts, the very things which are troubling you, the worries, the self doubt and critisism, hanging there in the air. 9s mean completion and relate to The Hermit, completion from within, worry in the case of swords. I see the bound hands as being a harder bind to get out of than the loosely bound and blindfolded body of the 8. The paralysis is more complete because it comes from within. Hope I've made some sense there. Love and light Sulis xx

Hedera	27 Oct 2003
Yes Sulis, that is certainly beginning to make sense! (Know all about block between brain/hands etc, btw. Very apt for a swords discussion, anyway! ;) ) Thank you! I think this will help me to appreciate that card more. :)

catti	27 Oct 2003
I have my own Morgan Greer story. I bought this deck at 12 years old when i lived in Gulfport Ms..i cant even remeber where i bought it, maybe New Orleans? but i do remember i used most of my saved up allowance and it was something i had to have. and i kept it and used it and by the time i was 16 was doing readings for pay..and then i started wondering about other decks and got a thoth and a dali and lost all three decks and ended up with a medieval scapini and came back to a morgan greer. and it is my workhorse deck. i can use it anytime anywhere on anyone...i like the lack of words on it ...a pet peeve of mine with many decks especially lo scarabeo, all that transalation takes away from the art imho, .....i like the lack of borders..makes up for lack of symbolism { a critisism this deck often recieves is that it is simple} because it is so easy to blend the images and create a story...the theme of blue is very pleasing...and i like the backs , the stars are random and seem *magickal looking * enough to please your querents. Though not a multi cultural deck by a long run at least there are some darker people in it...9 of pents , 7 of pents , q of swords and lovers for example...and more importantly for me the characters seem natural rather than forced and politically correct.This deck may not be *exciting* like some of the computer generated artwork out there or *interesting* like some of the theme decks out there ,but it is practical and easy to work with ....even the so called lack of details is misleading...after being familiar with the deck for the better part of 20 years Holmes just pointed out to me the moon on the queen of cups ( for some reason i had never seen it , so much for being visually oriented :laugh: ) hedera, i did wonder about the 9 of swords, although it has never been a problem for me reading . It is the only distinct deviation from RWS...anyone know why they did it?

Emily	28 Oct 2003
I've pulled the Queen of Swords for a couple of days in a row now and its made me really look at the card - And one thing I noticed was that the Queen seems to have a pearl resting on her throat. I can't find mention of it in the book or LWB and I wondered if anyone knew if it is a pearl and what its doing there. :)

lark	28 Oct 2003
I have never found an explanation for the pearl in any book. But I see it as a symbol for her being in my opinion a very vocal queen. The pearl is at the 5th chakra (throat.) One of the attributes of this chakra is your ability to express yourself. When it is out of balance it may repress your ability to express yourself, or make you overly critical and not listen to what you hear. The queen of swords to me upright is a task master she calls us on our stuff. Prompts us to tell the truth, keep our promises, and do a good job. She does this with words. As a personal attribute in ourselves she is disernment the ability to make good choices, see right from wrong, keep a clear mind. The queen of swords reversed to me is critic and self criticism. Both very verbal skills on the inner and outer self. So when I see that pearl or it stands out to me it's a clue that maybe this reading is alot about communication and I investigate that area. I offer this Emily not as the end all and be all of interpretations on the queen of swords, but just as a little insight into how I have seen it that might be of help to you. I couldn't help but reply to your question. I found it so interesting that you also wondered what that pearl ment. Glad to see you still like the deck. Nameste

Emily	28 Oct 2003
Hi Lark, Thanks for your interpretation, yes I can see it now. I've always thought of the Sword Queen as being vocal, and very even- minded, although she can be hard and calculating. When I first saw the pearl the first thoughts to enter my head were 'Pearls of wisdom' lol. I loved this deck from the moment it came out of shrink-wrap lol, I know I've fallen hard for decks before but usually its one sided and I find that no matter how beautiful the deck is sometimes I just can't connect and use it how I want - the Morgan Greer is different, its slower, more intense - I'm learning the cards at a slower pace, and its making me really look at the deck.

lark	28 Oct 2003
Pearls of widom is wonderful! I'm going to write that down in my notebook. Thank-you That's exactly what I love about this place. You learn from me I learn from you. It's a wonder and a blessing. Nameste

catti	28 Oct 2003
lark beat me to it, i too see the pearl at her throat being about communication...i love the way she is looking so directly at you, the queen of cups is looking to the left all wide eyd and innocent and the queen of pentacles to the right resting her chin on her hand, appraising her surroundings. the queen of wands also looks forward but she has a sort of dreamy stare...not the queen of swords...she is looking straight at you. holding the sword upright and that crown! The 5 roses in different stages : from bud to full bloom...cant remember where it was i read something on the 5 roses...but for me it speaks of patient communication, of getting your idea across with carefully placed words, occasional compliments and directness when necessaray . If you have grown roses you know the quality of care they need. Hope this helped some :) catti

Sulis	29 Oct 2003
I love the communication analogy. I read this thread yesterday but didn't have time to reply. I went off to look at my freshly delivered Morgan-Greer (yes it's arrived and I love it as much as I knew I would) and the thought which entered my head was 'pearls of wisdom'. I also see the pearl as quite a sad stone since it involves the suffering and death of the oyster to attain something so beautiful. I think that this is quite apt for the Queen of Swords who I see as someone who has has suffering and hard times in her life but who has learned from her suffering and gained wisdom from it. I feel very much as Emily does about this deck. I too almost ordered this one but changed my mind and ordered the Robin Wood instead which I hated and traded away (spooky eh? ;)) The Morgan Greer then got forgotten in favour of decks which gave me a different slant on the RWS meanings which were in my head. Now it's here it feels like an old friend, I wish I'd bought it 2 years ago. I love the colours which are bold yet muted and old looking. I love the lack of borders - borders bother me, I usually go for decks with black borders. The artwork is excellent, I even like the backs of the cards. I can't fault it, I can see this one overtaking my other decks, it's lovely. A question, does anyone have any idea what the guy on the 4 Pentacles has got on his brow, over his 3rd eye chakra? love and light Sulis xx

Emily	29 Oct 2003
Hi Catti , lark and Sulis, I hadn't noticed the roses, except that they are very nicley drawn lol - I like roses - also the clouds behind her to symbolise the airy aspect of swords. Once you really start to look, these cards are full of life. She's also a left-handed Queen, not sure what that means but just thought I would mention it but I remember reading somewhere that the left hand is attached to the intellect? Edited to add:- Hi Sulis, I also ordered the Robin Wood instead of this deck, and was never able to use it. I still have it but never really liked the artwork or the feel of the cards.

Le_Corsair	29 Oct 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Sulis A question, does anyone have any idea what the guy on the 4 Pentacles has got on his brow, over his 3rd eye chakra? Sulis xx Brace yourself, Sulis, because Susan Gerulskis-Estes, who wrote the companion book, says that the subject of the 4/pents is a woman. "A well-dressed woman gazes alertly ahead as she stands in front of a solid wall. Walls symbolize that which protects, restricts, and limits. One pentacle is balanced in her crown, meaning it is in the realm of her thoughts. She holds three more pentacles in front. Her crown and rich robe suggest material attainment." --from The Book of Tarot by Susan Gerulskis-Estes. Bill Greer's androgynes strike again! (in answer to your question, I haven't the foggiest! A shield for her thought, do you think?) Bob :THERM

bonnycat	29 Oct 2003
hi all I have recently acquired this deck and love it although i have not had chance to use it much yet as I got the Halloween tarot at the same time and surpriingly it is being used a lot at the moment. I would like to thank you Emily for starting this tread as it has given me insites i may not have come up with ie perals and roses I would like to offer one of my own now in answer to Sulis who asked A question, does anyone have any idea what the guy on the 4 Pentacles has got on his brow, over his 3rd eye chakra? (this is suposed to be a quote) To me this guy is preoccpied with the matterial world and therefor has no room for anything eles therefor his 3rd eye is blocked and he is non instictual. He has to satisfify his material needs with whatever they are before he can see with his 3rd eye. Hope you understand what it is I am trying to say It is just my take on this card somone eles might come up with some thing better

Sulis	29 Oct 2003
Well thanks Bonnycat and Bob for your thoughts. A woman eh? Now it's in my head I'm thinking yeah of course that could be a woman, I'm just so used to this card being represented by a man. I like your analogy Bonnycat that this is a blockage in her 3rd eye chakra but what is it that's doing the blocking? It doesn't look like part of her crown. I'm baffled. (It doesn't take much:)) Love and light Sulis xx

Moongold	29 Oct 2003
This is a great thread and I am enjoying the fresh vision you are all bringing to the Morgan Greer. I love this deck and bought it because it appealed much more than the RWS did when I was very new (not so long ago at all). The item on the forehead of the 4 Pentacles? I went for months thinking it was simply something the woman had put on her head to help stabilize the cap bearing 4th Pentacle. 4 is about 4 square consciousness, a symbol of law, system and order – firmness, stability, security and conservatism. I really like bonnycat’s explanation and think it is entirely plausible. This card suggests that it is no longer possible to scatter energy, that all must remain firmly rooted in the present situation, and the woman is perfectly poised looking directly at us as if to say Hey…get grounded! In relation to the presence of more women in this deck, and the androgynous look overall, the deck was designed in the 70’s Thie was the period of the great social movements in the West, one of which was Women’s Liberation. International Women’s Year was 1975.It is quite possible that this particular social movement influenced the deck. The presence of women and the frequent ambiguity about gender adds to the Morgan Greer's classical appeal.

Mystic Zyl	29 Oct 2003
I really like this deck, it is a Rider Waite clone. The colors are bold and pictures go to the edge of the cards, no boarder. My customers like the cards.

Sulis	30 Oct 2003
I have another question for those with the book. What's the significance of the wheat in The King of Swords. It's not what you usually see in this card. Love and light Sulis xx

Emily	30 Oct 2003
Hi Sulis, The book does mention the three strands of wheat. Quote' A political or military man, powerful and determined. A professional man with an analytical mind. A person of authority and action who sees facts without emotion. Potent and productive.' Unquote. It also mentions the tree's and foliage around him. I always seem to have problems with the Sword King, I see him as dominating, stern, but also very intelligent someone who you would want on your side and to offer advice - but not someone who you would want around you all the time. He is the sternest of all the Kings in this deck lol

Sulis	30 Oct 2003
He certainly is stern. What about the Knight of Swords for a dark looking character as well? That almost looks like the Tower behind him. I'm relly glad I finally got round to getting this deck, I'm getting loads of new insights on the traditional Rider waite meanings from it. I can definately see this one being one of my main reading decks. Thanks Emily for bringing it back to my attention. Love and light sulis xx

Emily	30 Oct 2003
I have at the moment got all of the court cards spread out in front of me lol - I was sorting through looking at the different Knights and Pages etc so I've took all the Queens and Kings out too just to compare them :)

lark	30 Oct 2003
I looked up wheat in my Tarot Companion book by Tracy Porter and in the Pictures of the Heart by Sandra Thomas. The first book said 'quote' Wheat symbolizes wisdom and the harvest of life experiances. The second book said 'quote' Psychologically sheaves of wheat (wheat tied together) represent the process of integrating inner opposites, the conscious and the unconscious. To me the King of Swords is an analizer and advisor. In order to do that you have to have alot of life experiance to fall back on. Experiance most times breeds wisdom. So that fits very nicely for me. "represents the process" I feel like he's still working on this conscious unconscious thing. Maybe when he gets it all together he won't be so emotionless and stern. Great insight maybe into the reversed King of Swords. Could look at it as a person who is having a hard time reconciling what he knows he needs to do on the outside with what he really is doing unconsciously to sabatoge himself. This is so fun. I love looking deeply into the cards I'm learning alot!

Lee	30 Oct 2003
I just wanted to point out, the book by Susan Gerulsis-Estes doesn't give any indication that it was prepared with input from the artist. In other words, I think she wrote it on her own without consulting with the artist, so it's basically her own ideas. I mean, her ideas might be valuable, but we shouldn't necessarily take them as being exactly what the artist had in mind for each card. -- Lee

Emily	30 Oct 2003
Hi Lee, I wondered about that, it doesn't mention anywhere in the book that it was a collaboration between author and Morgan/Greer. Its a shame I think that this deck could do with a specific book to go with it. There is so much happening on these cards, it would have been nice to have got Lloyd Morgan and Bill Greers own take on them. Although I do feel that she's done a fairly good job but without going into too much detail.

bonnycat	30 Oct 2003
Quote: Originally posted by lark The first book said 'quote' Wheat symbolizes wisdom and the harvest of life experiances. I always think of harvest and the sacrafical king when i see wheat but it does not seem to fit with king of swords but Then I am not very good at a lot of the court cards especialy the kings.

lark	30 Oct 2003
Quote: Originally posted by bonnycat I always think of harvest and the sacrafical king when i see wheat but it does not seem to fit with king of swords but Then I am not very good at a lot of the court cards especialy the kings. I know sometimes I get stuck seeing things one way and it's hard to get it out of my head. That's why it's so interesting to me to have a symbol like wheat appear on a card that normally I wouldn't think of as being associated with wheat. And delving into why it's there. It opens up the card in a whole new way. I think we should have a study just on the court cards someday. They confuse a lot of people. And they come up so often in readings.

bonnycat	30 Oct 2003
Quote: Originally posted by lark I I think we should have a study just on the court cards someday. They confuse a lot of people. And they come up so often in readings. i like that idea

Sulis	30 Oct 2003
Thanks for those insights Lark, they make a lot of sense when applied to the King of Swords. I especially like the 'harvest of life experiences', little phrases like that one I find especially effective at getting an idea to stick in my head. Love and light Sulis xx

Moongold	30 Oct 2003
Have a look at the crown on the Queen Pentacles.....is it made of flower buds or wheat husks of some kind?

Emily	31 Oct 2003
Hi Moongold, For some reason it reminds me of the outside of a chestnut lol - think its because I'm getting a craving for roasted chestnuts but it does seem to fit in with the acorns and autumn feel of this card. :) Edited:- Hi Lark just read your post, I find the court cards the most difficult to read too, sometimes its not clear in the spread whether its the attributes of the court card you need or an actual person who you will meet.

lark	31 Oct 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Emily Hi Moongold, it does seem to fit in with the acorns and autumn feel of this card. Hi Lark just read your post, I find the court cards the most difficult to read too, sometimes its not clear in the spread whether its the attributes of the court card you need or an actual person who you will meet. Good morning Moongold and Emily, Another reason I like this deck is because the pentacles have an autumn feeling. In my head pentacles represent autumn. I see them as representing the time when a farmer cashes in his harvest for money. The other cards fit in with my view of the seasons too. Wands for spring, Cups for summer, and Swords for winter. It's even snowing on the 10 of swords. I know there are alot of other traditions that asign different seasons than mine to the cards but, they never felt right to me. So finding a deck that agreed with how I felt about it was so great! Emily, court cards used to make me so nervous, I hated to see one come up in a spread. Then I read a book called The Tarot Court Cards by Kate Warwick- Smith. This book helped me TREMENDOUSLY. I can honestly say I feel like I have a handle on them now. When they come up I can get something valuable out of them. I read reviews of this book and some people didn't like it, but I took a chance on it anyway. It was the only book I could find that exclusively dealt with the court cards. And I'm so glad I did. I'm eagerly waiting for Mary Greer's new book about court cards to come out. I think it's really needed. Since I've been here at Aeclectic I've read so many posts where the person is baffled by court cards. So I hope Mary Greer's book helps all of us understand them better. .

truthsayer	31 Oct 2003
i thought the book about court cards was already out. at least i've seen something about court cards at amazon from llewelyn.

lark	31 Oct 2003
Quote: Originally posted by truthsayer i thought the book about court cards was already out. at least i've seen something about court cards at amazon from llewelyn.

lark	31 Oct 2003
Quote: Originally posted by truthsayer i thought the book about court cards was already out. at least i've seen something about court cards at amazon from llewelyn. Sorry pushed the wrong button. I just went over to amazon and Mary Greer's book is there! It's not released yet but you can preorder. And I did. Thanks truthsayer for the heads up.

Emily	31 Oct 2003
Hi Lark, I might check Mary Greer's book out - it sounds interesting - thanks :)

Emily	02 Nov 2003
I've also just ordered 'Seventy Eight Degrees of Wisdom' by Rachel Pollack from Amazon - I've had the 1980 edition for a while and never looked at it - this edition only features the Majors and was bought second hand, its battered and falling apart but for most of the morning I've been sitting and reading through it. It makes for interesting reading and I've had my Morgan Greer side by side and making comparisons - so I've took the plunge and ordered the full edition from Amazon and see how I get on with it. I do like the style of Rachel Pollacks' writing, I have a couple of her other books and its seems to fit the Morgan Greer better than some of my other Rider Waite symbolism based books. :)

Jewel-ry	16 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Moongold Have a look at the crown on the Queen Pentacles.....is it made of flower buds or wheat husks of some kind? Moongold, I was reading an old thread by Thirteen about court cards and their astrological correlations and it seems that wheat on a QPentacles card can indicate that shes a virgo which would tie in with this card and its earthly qualities. This made me look at some of the other court cards and the QSwords has thorns and roses. Could she be the gemini, the sign which symbolizes contradictions, the tendency to go from one extreme to the other. The QRods has a sunflower, leo? I dont know... maybe this is all common knowledge, I dont really know much about astrology. Anyone else any ideas on this? jewel-ry

Moongold	16 Nov 2003
Hello jewel-ry There are differences between astrological associations and the symbolism of particular flowers. It would be interesting to know hat the book says about these things. Berger & Fiebig note the following general assocations: Queen Wands: Aries Queen Swords: Libra Queen Pentacles: Capricorn Queen Cups: Cancer I have to go to work now but can list the others if you'd like, later. They're probably searchable here, if anyone has the time. Blessings ~

Jewel-ry	16 Nov 2003
Thanks Moongold, I have found a thread and printed it of. This is a whole new area of research isnt it??? Too much to look at.... not enough time!!

Emily	18 Nov 2003
After thinking about the pearl on the Sword Queen, I've been going through my books and finding out about other symbols used on the cards, this has never interested me before - I didn't even know that some of the books have symbol dictionaries in the back pages - but symbols like the wheat, the red roses, other flowers, grapes, flags, birds etc - they all mean something. Its interesting to study the hidden symbols and there seem to be so many in the Morgan Greer. :)

Thea Lynx	18 Nov 2003
I have also recently gotten a Morgan Greer. I hadn't felt drawn to the deck at first, but after seeing it several times in Tarot Class, I felt it grow on me. I prefer rich colors, not bright and harsh, but rich tones - the decks I seem drawn to work with are all like this. I am working with Morgan Greer this week and have to admit I like it. One of the things mentioned at class was that unlike the decks that have borders around the scenes, the Morgan Greer seems to invite you into the picture. I am enjoying working with it. Thea

Emily	20 Nov 2003
Hi Thea Lynx, Are you learning about the colours used in the Morgan Greer? I'd never given it much thought until I bought this deck, then I found out that each card, the Majors I think, has specific colours used on it. This deck never ceases to amaze me, I can look at the cards and see things I've not noticed before. :)

Sulis	20 Nov 2003
Emily does the book written for this deck go into colour correspondedces and symbols? As you've said there is much partially hidden symbolism in this deck. I'm thinking of getting the book. Love and light Sulis

Emily	20 Nov 2003
Hi Sulis, Its a small book only 94 pages, it does give good insight into the Majors, it gives the astrological and numerical influences and then gives a good detailed description of the cards and interpretations. The Minors are a little less detailed but enough to explain what is happening on the cards. It not as informative as some of the deck books I've seen but its the only one I've found that is specific to the Morgan Greer. It does go into the colours used, mainly on the Majors, and is good with alot of the symbolism but it does leave you wanting to know more. I'm glad I got the book, it does explain the deck - it just isn't long enough lol

Voodoo_Shaman	20 Nov 2003
I Love the Morgan Greer, it is one of my favorite decks. Never Knew they had a Spanish Edition. Should get it since most of my clients are Latino, any one have for trade? Also what other languages does the Morgan Greer come in? Does any one use a difrent Language Morgan Greer?

lark	21 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Voodoo_Shaman I Love the Morgan Greer, it is one of my favorite decks. Never Knew they had a Spanish Edition. Should get it since most of my clients are Latino, any one have for trade? Also what other languages does the Morgan Greer come in? Does any one use a difrent Language Morgan Greer? I use the English version but I looked in my new US Games catalog and it also comes in French, German, Italian,and Spanish. I know my Robin Wood deck also comes in Spanish.

Jewel-ry	21 Nov 2003
Hi Emily and all, Just got this deck. I went out to buy it several months ago and couldnt find it anywhere. Finally got it last week from the internet and I really like it. It really is a little special isn't it. I've done a couple of quite good readings with it. I love that it has no border and that the people really fill the cards. The colours are very rich too. I have a book by Terry Donaldson about the tarot and the deck he uses to illustrate the cards is the Morgan Greer which is what drew me to it in the first place. Jewel-ry

WalesWoman	21 Nov 2003
Hi, Jewel-ry, could you post the name of the book by Terry Donaldson that uses Morgan-Greer for illustrations? Do you feel his book represents the meaning of the deck well, or was something he just used to illustrate his interpretations? I am pretty new, but this is my only deck and I find myself needing to reference to other books and sources constantly because I feel the book that came with my deck isn't even close to the LWB, she doesn't explain the symbology and the meanings are very, very simplistic: The Book of Tarot Illustrated with the Morgan-Greer Tarot Susan Gerulskis-Estes ISBN 0-88079-277-9 It's as if she had no contact at all with the creators, other than crediting Bill Greer for the artwork there is no mention at all of Lloyd Morgan and he was the one who directed the artwork of the deck! It was good to get me an intitial meaning, but the DM's for the cards are not very good in my opinion. I keep hoping that Lloyd Morgan or Bill Greer would write a companion book since it melds A.E. Waite and Case. I'm not familiar at all with Case and have been mostly using RWS based books to gain a deeper understanding. I love my cards but even with the amount of symbology there is, sometimes I feel like I am missing so much when I'm looking up meanings in various books, such as "Seventy-Eight Degrees of Wisdom" by Rachel Pollack or "The Complete Book of Tarot; A Step-by-Step Guide to Reading the Cards" by Juliet Sharman-Burke. I'm glad to finally find out what the pearl on the Queen of Swords' neck might mean, Pearls of Wisdom! Cool! Thanks in advance, WalesWoman

Jewel-ry	21 Nov 2003
Hi WalesWoman, The book is called Step-by-Step Tarot by Terry Donaldson, ISBN 1-85538-431-0. To be truthful, I think he has used this deck to help illustrate his book. I do like this book though, it was the first book I got and he begins by telling you not to read anything else at the same time otherwise you will get too confused. He says that once you've finished his course you will get 10 times more out of other books and sources of information. He doesn't go into a lot of symbolism as such but does describe the card and then go into a lttle detail about its meaning. He does a heightened meaning of each card and then a concentrated meaning which includes : astrological associatons, bullet meaning, worldly associations, positive and negative associations for the majors. The back of the book gives spreads and layouts. Difficult to say if this is what you are looking for but I have found it useful, certainly as a beginner. Regards Jewel-ry

WalesWoman	21 Nov 2003
Jewel-ry, Thanks for your quick reply. Sorry to sound like a dolt, but what is a bullet meaning? Is that like keywords? I'll check out the book, but ;"He says that once you've finished his course you will get 10 times more out of other books and sources of information." Have you found this to be true?

Jewel-ry	22 Nov 2003
Hi WalesWoman, Yes bullet meaning is like keywords. I can't say that I was true to him and did tend to flit around in my study so I cant really say if his system works but what I will say is that most probably sticking with one deck and one book for a while is the best way to go. I've ended up with many decks and books that I just delve into and no deck that I know really well. When I get really into one I always feel that the others are feeling left out and switch to another! Jewel-ry

Emily	23 Nov 2003
Hi Jewel-ry and WalesWoman, I too wondered about the Terry Donaldson book, I have one of his others but can't remember the name of it and wondered like WalesWoman if he explained any of the cards of the Morgan Greer or just used the deck for illustrations. I seem to remember the other book of his that I have isn't illustrated with any decks at all. I wish 'The book of tarot' by Susan Gerulskis-Estes was a little longer and contained much more information that it does, these cards are alive with symbolism which is some cases is very different from the Rider Waite so it may be the Paul Foster Case influence. She does only skim the surface, in my case its made me hit the Rider Waite books harder looking for meanings of obvious images like the pearl in the Sword Queen, which isn't mentioned in the book at all, although the roses are. Most times it means looking through symbol dictionaries or finding them online. The one saving grace of this book is that she does, although very simply, explain the Minors, what is happening on the card so at least you have an idea of the image and not just the supplied meanings.

Le_Corsair	23 Nov 2003
Actually, I rather like the concise form of The Book of Tarot by Gerulskis-Estes. For those people that aren't particularly interested in extended study of tarot symbolism, it has just enough information to allow a total beginner to develop an interest in tarot. I agree that Greer or Morgan might have helped us out by writing a more detailed explanation of the deck, but when you think about it, did A.E. Waite go into very much detail in his book The Key To the Tarot? Not really. Yet there are numerous books about RWS out there, and books on other common decks, as well. If there is a need for a more detailed account of the Morgan Greer, you can be sure it will eventually be filled. Maybe by you! What a good idea for a project! ;) Bob :THERM

Emily	24 Nov 2003
Hi Bob, I have started a journal off for this deck lol - I started it because of all the information I was finding in other books, I couldn't remember it all so started to write it down. I've been using my favourite tarot books, not only from the Rider Waite but Thoth and Thoth clones. Its turning into a fascinating study. I think I posted on here earlier about finding tarot dictionaries in the back of some of my books that I didn't even know were there - so the Morgan Greer is opening my eyes to idea's that I hadn't thought of before like using Thoth based books with a deck that is classed as a Rider Waite clone. :)

WalesWoman	24 Nov 2003
The book won't be written by me, Bob. I don't have that kind of time, so spend too much it seems gleaning through the books I do have, looking up links here and other places for RWS and other meanings and finally arriving at something I can relate to apply to a reading. I'm still getting a clue, but it seems as tho' I learn something different everytime with every card and really should start a real journal to keep adding all the tidbits from sites and sources and other readers. Wish it would all stick in my head better, but after the past five months I am getting better at "automatically uploading" atleast the key meanings when I see most of the cards without reaching for a book and having more of those card "moments". Something happens and I think of a card that it could relate to. Patience and perseverance towards progress!

Myrrha	24 Nov 2003
This deck just came in the mail and I am really enjoying looking through it. The images have a lot of impact and I love the flower symbolism, the bold colors, varied skin tones, and the lack of borders. There are a couple of irritating things though, like the shape of the fool's bag, which is very umm, masculine. I can't fit that in with the meaning at all. Does the book say anything about this? thank you for your enthusiastic posts and descriptions which made me take a second look at this deck. --Myrrha

WalesWoman	25 Nov 2003
Myrrah, I noticed that shape too and wonder why you found it irritating? My thoughts were of the nature that it is the male bravodo, the masculine spirit and (pro)creative fire, having the courage, spirit and determination to take on unknown or indomnitable challenges and adventures. Having the "balls" or "cojonnes" to do something is an admirable trait, even though it sounds a bit crass. But I didn't read that in any book, just thought of it. And like all things, is something that can be adjusted and balanced just by how he counter-weighs his travel pouch and carries the rod. In "the Book of Tarot", the only reference is: *"Over his shoulder is a rod which contains, in the handkerchief tied to it, knowledge gained in a previous existence. The knowledge will aid him in overcoming obstacles that will inevitabley arise during his journey. The rod in his left hand is used as a walking stick. The rod symbollized the spiritual unity and nature of all things." *The Book of Tarot Illustrated with the Morgan-Greer Tarot Susan Gerulskis-Estes ISBN 0-88079-277-9 Does that help it fit in any better with your concept of the Fool? I have noticed this thread is the closest thing to a study group for this particular deck. I'm beginning to think I would like to find out more about Case and his meanings that might shed more light, rather than so much reliance on RWS. But in some forums with daily cards or card studies threads, I get so much more insights from all the different variances from all the different decks and philosophies, that I think just about every one has something of relevance. I don't have a lot of time or experience to give to a study group, but I would participate as often as "real life commitments" allow.

Myrrha	25 Nov 2003
Hmmm, well, I guess for me the Fool isn't really about "male bravado", more about a willingness to be spontaneous and open, without pre-conceptions and planned iteneraries. It may require courage to be authentic and act from the heart, but I don't see that kind of courage as being particularly masculine. You are right that having the "balls" or "cojones" to do something is admirable but that symbolism would be less jarring on one of the Wands cards, maybe the Knight or King? One of my housemates who is male thought it was pretty silly too. There's no accounting for tastes is there? :) -Myrrha PS "Knowledge gained in a previous existence" could tie in with DNA, which is passed down in cells manufactured in the testicles. Edited to add: At least there are no yin-yang symbols in this deck, as tarot "ouches" go that one is a deal breaker for me! Quote: Originally posted by WalesWoman Myrrah, I noticed that shape too and wonder why you found it irritating? My thoughts were of the nature that it is the male bravodo, the masculine spirit and (pro)creative fire, having the courage, spirit and determination to take on unknown or indomnitable challenges and adventures. Having the "balls" or "cojonnes" to do something is an admirable trait, even though it sounds a bit crass. But I didn't read that in any book, just thought of it. And like all things, is something that can be adjusted and balanced just by how he counter-weighs his travel pouch and carries the rod. In "the Book of Tarot", the only reference is: *"Over his shoulder is a rod which contains, in the handkerchief tied to it, knowledge gained in a previous existence. The knowledge will aid him in overcoming obstacles that will inevitabley arise during his journey. The rod in his left hand is used as a walking stick. The rod symbollized the spiritual unity and nature of all things." *The Book of Tarot Illustrated with the Morgan-Greer Tarot Susan Gerulskis-Estes ISBN 0-88079-277-9 Does that help it fit in any better with your concept of the Fool? I have noticed this thread is the closest thing to a study group for this particular deck. I'm beginning to think I would like to find out more about Case and his meanings that might shed more light, rather than so much reliance on RWS. But in some forums with daily cards or card studies threads, I get so much more insights from all the different variances from all the different decks and philosophies, that I think just about every one has something of relevance. I don't have a lot of time or experience to give to a study group, but I would participate as often as "real life commitments" allow.

Emily	03 Dec 2003
I was doing my daily draw on Sunday and the card I pulled was the 7 Swords. My day hadn't been going too bad so I wasn't sure how this card could fit into my day, anyway I put the card to one side and carried on with the usual Sunday chores. Later in the day I put the computer on and got ready to come online. A few mysterious bleeps, my virus software had stopped a virus. The rest of Sunday was dedicated to getting rid of this virus. It wasn't until later on that day that I glanced at the 7 Swords sitting out on the table and suddenly it all seemed to fall into place. The card features a man stealing swords, a sneak thief. Like a virus sneaking onto your computer, stealing files, taking others, changing things - whoever sent the virus a sneak thief, intent only on doing damage and being malicious, being evasive, using trickery to get onto the computer in the first place. I looked through the deck after that and it did seem that the only card I could find that would point to the circumstances of a computer virus was the 7 Swords and I wondered if anyone else has had this kind of experience where the meanings of the card fit but in a completely different situation.

Jewel-ry	03 Dec 2003
Hi Emily, Cant recall an experience like that but it was spot on wasn't it?? Thievery, hidden secrets, malicious, cunning - all of these words apply very well. J :)

lark	03 Dec 2003
Hi Emily, I had an experiance with the 2 of pentacles it came up rx and I set it aside not really connecting anything to it. Later that day I went to watch one of my favorite movies and it wouldn't work. I took it out and the tape had pulled away from the wheel inside . It was ruined. Later that night when I went back to my cards to journal for the day, I saw the 2 of pentacles rx and started to laugh. I never noticed it before but the two pentacles surrounded by the lemniscate looks like a film reel. And upside down it seemed to be predicting my ruined film. The film was Chocolate, Johnny Depp need I say more. Edited to fix poor Johnny's name. Thanks Emily I knew it was wrong but I just couldn't remember the right spelling.

Emily	03 Dec 2003
Hi Jewel-ry and Lark, It did give me a 'aha' moment lol - cause when I first pulled the card it didn't relate to my day at all, which had been going quite nicely but once I'd got the virus sorted and I had time to sit down with the card again I realised what I was seeing. This is turning out to be one of the most interesting decks I've ever used. Also I don't think Johnny Depp was in that film long enough :D

The Morgan Greer thread was originally posted on 30 Jun 2002 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.