Popular decks - Why just these?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 25 Jul 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

C.N.	25 Jul 2002
Checking over the top ten of the last 3 years of this forum, I noted that there are 6 decks that have been in the top 7 positions every time. They are: Rider Waite (7, 4, 6) Aleister Crowley Thoth (2, 2, 3) Robin Wood (3, 1, 1) Osho Zen (4, 7, 2) Sacred Circle (1, 3, 5) Legend: The Arturian (5, 6, 4) So the question is, why these? R-W & CT are old decks so I guess that they have the advantage of being widespread. It is still suprising that they have stood the test of time. Osho Zen is great, refreshing, psycological, has new images but are the idea behind the images are from classical Tarot. Robin Wood: A more dynamic version of Rider-Waite, is more cheerful and alive. But I guess that this is not the only one? So why just Robin Wood? Sacred Circle & Legend: The Arturian: - No idea, I haven't got these decks. What's your opinion? C.N.

divinerguy	25 Jul 2002
Tarot readers go through an evolutionary process. Almost everyone gets the RWS as their first deck. Its recommended by book stores because of its ubiquitous nature. The RWS is somewhat lacking in contemporary images, and the drawings are not of the highest quality. Accordingly, many people get a more artistic or theme deck after a while. If the reader sticks with it, acquiring new decks and talking about them becomes fun. There are faddish decks, which come and go, but in the end, quality decks will have a longer sales life, e.g., Thoth, RWS, etc. The Lord of the Rings Tarot, designed for a niche market, has had exellent sales since the movie came out. However, as a true Tarot deck, it is not very good. After while, sales will fall back to a niche level.

Helruna	25 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by divinerguy Tarot readers go through an evolutionary process. Almost everyone gets the RWS as their first deck. Its recommended by book stores because of its ubiquitous nature. The RWS is somewhat lacking in contemporary images, and the drawings are not of the highest quality. Accordingly, many people get a more artistic or theme deck after a while. The Lord of the Rings Tarot, designed for a niche market, has had exellent sales since the movie came out. However, as a true Tarot deck, it is not very good. After while, sales will fall back to a niche level. I have to agree here in some ways, the RWS simply seems to be one of "the" standards, a lot of literature and teaching/help and guideline books have been published on this one, and the symbols might be somewhat "easier" to grasp for some beginners, and it is well known. I see too that the quality of the drawings might not be the best, and that there is a lack in the artistic area of the RWS, but as a beginner, I think a "symbology overloaded" deck might not be very suitable. However, I see your point on the niche deck. I bought the lod of the Rings Tarot a couple of years ago, and I do hardly ever use it, not because I think it is not a nice deck, but it is somewhat more difficult to approach it. I haven't given up yet though. I think this might be another reason why some of the deck you mentioned, C.N., have been popular over the last few years as the spiritualitiy/pagan subject has been experiencing a "reviving" too, and a lot of the decks you mention have a pagan/spiritualistic influence - like the Shapeshifter and the Legends/Robin Wood. This might explain why they have been in the Top 10 list the last few years. Just my 0,02 Eurocents. BB, Helruna

Laurel	25 Jul 2002
*nods* The R-W has the most copies in circulation, and tends to be the inspiration for a large proportion of decks available. The occult revival had three big branches in the US: Wicca/Western based paganism, Qabalah/Western based Ceremonial magic, Eastern philosophy & meditation. As a stereotype, the Robin Wood and the Crowley-Thoth deck tend to get picked up by novice pagans and ceremonial magicians as part of the "finding themselves" process. They're colorful, interesting, reasonably easy to find and popular tarot decks tend to stay popular as people who see them in readings or book shelves want their own copy. Laurel

Diana	25 Jul 2002
edited

Sorceress_Jade	25 Jul 2002
why aren't they considered true Tarot decks? Do you know? You've got me very curious.

Diana	25 Jul 2002
edited

HudsonGray	25 Jul 2002
I wonder if part of the reason these are in the top 10 is because they're the ones most likely carried by the book stores--which get them out & seen in the general public a lot more than the other decks. ie: Availability

jmd	26 Jul 2002
In order to answer the original question as to why certain decks get voted top decks each time, I suppose that it reflects the community which does the voting. Over only three years, I doubt that there will be much change unless there is also a large change in membership - but why these particular decks? This is an anglophonic site, and one would expect, then, that most members are either influenced by books in the English language, or live in English speaking countries. As has been mentioned earlier, most English books are illustrated with the Waite/Colman-Smith deck, and/or the Crowley/Harris Thoth. There has developed a view, then, that these form part of the essence of the Tarot. In France, as Diana mentions, a somewhat similar development has occured with the Marseilles deck - the difference between the Marseilles and the Waite and Crowley decks is that these last two 'developed' from the former. As to the vote of popularity, it will be interesting to see this year's voting pattern, as the number of members has expanded to such an extant that it may have significant voting repercussions. I would also be interested to see if there are voting patterns depending on the age group of the voters, the length of time with the Tarot, the number of decks a person owns, and the place of residence - but I'm asking for too much. Returning to the original question, even friends of mine who own a store which sells, amongst other items, Tarot decks, will tend to 'recommend' the Waite - simply because it sells more (making it a self-fulfilling prophesy!).... but the tides will move.

catboxer	26 Jul 2002
I wish I had read this thread before I posted a few minutes ago on "1 deck or many." But repetition isn't necessarily bad. For me, real tarot is, for all the reasons Diana enumerated, either the Marseilles-style decks or the old Italian cards. There are also a few modern decks that use un-illustrated pips, and I've seen a couple that I like. I guess there are some of us who feel that tarot, like religion, is founded on tradition, and not something that can be re-invented whenever someone feels like it. I realize, however, that current trends encourage an innovative and different approach to the subject, and that tarot has become not just a traditional form, but very much a means of personal expression. This is something new, but there's nothing wrong with it. I was somewhat taken aback to see the Rider-Waite-Smith and the Crowley-Harris-Thoth cards referred to as "old decks" in the original post on this thread. The first was published in 1910, and the second in the year I was born (1944). This says something about the contemporary sense of history.

Minderwiz	27 Jul 2002
It seems to me that the RWS deck and its derivitives (including Robin Wood) is so popular because of its 'general' nature. It does not link the Tarot to a more narrow theme such as Arthurian legend, greek mythology, Wicca, or a currently popluar film. This gives it a broader appeal than those that do. As enthusiasm for their theme dies, so demand for that type of deck may also die. As long as the Tarot itsef is popular, RWS derivitaves and the Thoth Tarot are likely to remain identified as 'Tarot' in the public mind. I am not suggesting that the other 'theme' decks are inferior - as a Star Trek fan I might well seek out and buy (and use) a Star Trek Tarot - however people who like Tarot and Star Trek are a sub set of people who like Tarot and such a deck would not have universal appeal. The important thing though is that the deck you use is one that you like and feel comfortable with more than any other. I don't think it really matters whether it is a traditional deck such as the Marseilles or RWS or a 'theme' deck. Regards Minderwiz

Emily	27 Jul 2002
I think the Rider Waite and R/W clones are popular because most of the 'general' tarot books you can find are based on the R/W interpretations and, although not so much now, a few years ago the Rider Waite was 'the' learners deck - there just wasn't the choice of tarot decks as there is now - Rider Waite, Marseilles, Thoth, Golden Dawn, maybe a few more but nothing like the many decks you can get now. The tarot decks that veer away from being R/W clones nearly always have their own specific books but usually if you've learned with a R/W or clone then you can move onto anything and still retain some of the past learning.

Sally Gardens	27 Jul 2002
Quote: Originally posted by catboxer I guess there are some of us who feel that tarot, like religion, is founded on tradition, and not something that can be re-invented whenever someone feels like it. I'm one of those who feels that religion can and should be continually reinvented, so I have no problem with continually reinventing Tarot. :D All traditions must be reimagined and reinterpreted anew for each time and place and culture.

Starfish	27 Jul 2002
3 things make these particular decks appealing to me: Ease of availability (most of them can be found readily at the local book store (B & N, Borders, etc.), user friendly and beauty. :TPW Starfish

BlueLotus	05 Jan 2004
.... ....If not yet then go to http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/topten.html Well, I really like at least four of these, and I voted for one of them myself. The Tarot of Prague is a refreshing addition, and very beautiful one for that matter, after previous years' repetitive deck selections. I think there are three new ones on the list, namely, The Fey, The Quest Tarot, and Tarot of Prague. I am just not too thrilled that Haindl is out :( Since I already own The Fey Tarot, The Quest, and all others, except for the MG deck, next on my most urgent wish list will definitely be ToP, then the MG deck .....

Diana	05 Jan 2004
Feebie! Thanks for pointing the results out to us. baba-prague: Congratulations to you and Alex!!! Hip-hip hooray! :) :) :) :) :) *Diana goes off to plan her strategy to get a Marseilles deck on that Top 10 list next year*

Jewel-ry	05 Jan 2004
Thats really great news. I got the Tarot of Prague for xmas and I really, really like it. I also have the Morgan Greer which I voted for, so I'm pleased. Congratulations baba-prague and Alex! Well done! J :)

Sulis	05 Jan 2004
Wow, Tarot of Prague got number 1. Well done Karen and Alex, you must both be really pleased. Thanks for the Xmas card by the way, a very nice touch. Love and light Sulis xx

Majecot	05 Jan 2004
WOW ! I was surprised at the results.. I thought last years results would be much the same as previous years, with out much change.. It is refreshing to see something new on the list with the "old dependables".

Emily	05 Jan 2004
I'm also pleased that for the first time the Morgan Greer, my favourite, made it on. :D - congratulations to the Tarot of Prague too :)

baba-prague	05 Jan 2004
Alex and I only just realised and we are a bit taken aback and of course very, very pleased. BIG HUGE thanks from both of us. We have just been invited (this minute) to a friend's house for a celebratory ice-cream. Now it is -10 and snowing outside and we won't get there until past 8pm but you know it's never too late or too cold for an ice-cream and we DO have something to celebrate! Thank-you again - it was such a surprise we are in a slight state of shock you know :-)

Khatruman	05 Jan 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Sally Gardens I'm one of those who feels that religion can and should be continually reinvented, so I have no problem with continually reinventing Tarot. :D All traditions must be reimagined and reinterpreted anew for each time and place and culture. I must totally agree with this, and have expressed similar feelings in another thread regarding what makes a "true" tarot. The problem into which many big religions fall is staying too close to tradition and losing the true meaning behind the tradition. There is a wonderful zen story where, during a temple meditation, the temple cat used to howl, so it had to be locked up in order to silence it for the service. This became such a ritual even after the cat dies that a whole rite of service develops regarding the importance of tying up a cat in order to achieve proper meditation. A practical concern becomes a holy ritual, which is meaningless since the followers failed to challenge the reason for the action in the first place. Every generation ought to revisit the rituals of its services to find out if they are still valid. So too with tarot.

Khatruman	05 Jan 2004
Interesting to see that a few of the standbys, such as the Osho Zen, Robin Wood and Sacred Circle, still hold there ground. And that may be, as jmd pointed out, because of the members who hold to their favorites. RWS and Thoth hold because of tradtion. I think that Marseilles may not make it because there isn't one standard deck. I am not sure who is involved in the tallying, but are different varieties of Marseilles decks treated as different decks? That would probably explain its constant absence. Interesting note about trends. Look how quickly the Victoria Regina has fallen away. I remember that being the darling deck of last year. I have it myself. But even in postings, it looks like the deck, though fascinating and unusual, holds to simply being a fad deck. Another note this year: three newcomers to the top ten (Tarot of Prague, Fey Tarot, and the Quest) are all decks whose creators or co-creators are regulars to this site. So perhaps that has figured into the voting also. I will imagine that Kat's deck, the Golden Tarot, will make next year's top ten. Too bad the publisher didn't get her in for this year. I have it on pre-order and am anxiously awaiting it, as are several others I also lament the loss of the Haindl deck on the list, and find it interesting that one of its clones, the Quest, has made the list. I am sure this is from some of Mr. Martin's calculated self-promotion.

Cerulean	05 Jan 2004
to the top ten....or a variation of any Milanese pattern of any sort... And I don't know if anyone views these nice little historic bits as a true tarot if they are thinking of tarot for 'reading' rather than 'old game'. I think the Sacred Circle is an interesting choice...there's something about celtic decks and the tarot, it makes for a very rich combination. Many beautiful and new decks deserve a good vote. I believe I'll keep my Fey and Prague as treasures, being different. Strangely though, I like the odder tarots, like the anime ones...I don't know if how I read with them is really right, but they chime a delicious ting with me in some moments...cheers! Mari

Kimber	05 Jan 2004
I found it interesting that Sacred Circle made it to the top 10 in both 2002 and 2003. I remember how excited I was about this deck; preordered it and everything. I also remember how disappointed I was when it arrived. Maybe it has to do with expectations, and building them up too much, or having a preconceived notion in my head of what they would be like. I do like the deck, but it feels....flat....to me. I had the same experience with Shapeshifter. I loved the artwork, but was totally boggled trying to work with it. :confused: So for all of you who keep the Sacred Circle in the top ten, convert me! I just can't get this deck to talk to me. :TFOOL Kimber

BlueLotus	06 Jan 2004
I got out my Fey Deck once again, having been lying there for some time, and looked through the cards. I think I am falling in love with them all over again. . I picked one card for the day and I got the 10 of wands. Yet to see it manifest. I am watching out for 'clues' of it throught the day. Although I do not agree with the one who posted about the Shapeshifter deck, as I really like it, and relate to it. There is an at home feeling with it somehow, strange as it may sound; But yes The Sacred Circle deck is , well, not exactly to my taste. Although I like the images, I find it hard to relate to the book. I may just decide to make up my own stories/interpretations when reading with this deck, again ,.....someday.

Lee	06 Jan 2004
I reignited my own interest in the Sacred Circle by ditching the book (although I did find it helpful to read about the Court cards to see where they were coming from with those cards). If I ever get really into the deck I might go back to the book to find out about the plant life and such. But the book's divinatory meanings I found not helpful. -- Lee

Thea Lynx	07 Jan 2004
Hi CN, Welll, I only have three of the decks you mention - the Rider (which is so popular for study that would immediately indicate why it is so popular) Crowley's Thoth is my power deck - it grabbed me the second I touched it. And it seems to be the gold standard for Thoth style decks (as opposed to Rider style decks) so that would (for me) answer the question of it's popularity. Legend, the Arthurian is the third on the list that I have and I found it to be a very romantic deck, so, being a hopeless romantic myself, it appealed to me, the colors are soft, the images are intriguing and the appeal is tremendous. Hope this helps. Thea

WolfyJames	07 Jan 2004
I voted for The Gothic Tarot by Vargo, and I find that sad to see that this deck didn't make the top 10 list. I wonder what position it holds on the entire list.

Cerulean	07 Jan 2004
I asked Jeanette at Tarotgarden.com and she said it was a steady seller since it came out in 2002. The Sacred Circle and Robin Woods has been out several years---I bet the Gothic by Vargo is gaining a steady following. So this coming year, keep up the great study group and I bet you can revitalize interest in it...I didn't even know it existed until I saw your study group and the review on Tarotpassages.com It's a great deck and hopefully it will continue to gain in popularity. The Endora Fortune cards are lovely as well. Mari H.

WolfyJames	08 Jan 2004
You're right, it's true that The Gothic Tarot by Vargo is fairly recent compared to the other decks on the top 10. And it's true also that my Gothic Tarot stydy group has awaken people's curiosity toward the deck; many persons told me they put the deck on their wishlist because of the study group. So it's possible that The Gothic Tarot by Vargo might be in the top 10 in the future. Thank you Mari for giving me back my smile. ;)

The Popular decks - Why just these? thread was originally posted on 25 Jul 2002 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.