Baphomet: Tarot of the Underworld - by Akron and H. R. Giger

Forum Library > Tarot Decks Threads By Month > Baphomet: Tarot of the Underworld - by Akron and H. R. Giger

Pollux	25 Aug 2002
Aeclectican european fellows (and not only them) might be pleased to know that in ALIDA-STORE database today I spotted the above deck added. The price is obviously above average. http://www.alidastore.com/ag048.html I have tried to search on AGMuller site but oddly found nothing. Good hunting!!! (*if he had the money he would get the Giger at once*)

RedWood	25 Aug 2002
Which one is it? I do not read other languages!!! (did you get my pm about the marshmallows?)

DollChica	25 Aug 2002
I love the Giger, but the artwork is a little too disturbing for my family. They are ready to attempt a divine intervention on me! It's a shame too because that deck can show you things about yourself that you would normally try to suppress. Really an outstanding deck if you have an objective mind.

Jeannette	25 Aug 2002
The AGMueller edition of the Giger Tarot, known as Baphomet: Tarot of the Underworld, is OOP. The current edition, which sells for about 15 US$ through the major book chains, is currently published by a company called Taschen America and is officially titled The H.R. Giger Tarot. The AGMueller edition originally sold for about 40 US$. The cards were very large, and had silver-gilt edges. Later editions of the AGMueller Baphomet actually included a music CD produced by the group Epilepsy. I haven't seen the cards from the Taschen America edition with my own eyes, so I don't know if they retained the size and/or the silver gilding, but I've seen no indication that it includes the CD. So, when comparing the price on the AGMueller Baphomet to the Taschen Giger set, realize that it's a bit of apples-and-oranges thing. It's best to keep in mind that the AGMueller set is an original edition, now OOP, and possibly with extra "features," while the Taschen set represents a later edition, currently in-print, with potentially fewer "features." -- Jeannette http://www.tarotgarden.com

Pollux	26 Aug 2002
Jeanette: the deck is included in the page of AGMuller decks, has the "RARE" ribbon, and is sold for €41.32 ($40.05). I will e-mail them and enquire about the "extra" features. RedWood: there's an english version of the site. Just click on the small english flag on the header (yes I did, I am thinking about it ;))

Jeannette	26 Aug 2002
Pollux: Keep in mind that when I refer to "extra" features, I'm talking about two things: 1) The silver-gilt edging. If the current edition has this edging (which, at a 15 US$ price, I would tend to doubt, but I can't say for certain because I haven't seen the current edition), then the AGM edition wouldn't be "special" in this regard. 2) The Epilepsy music CD. The earliest edition of the AGM version did not include the CD. The first edition was packaged in a silver/gray box. The later edition, which included the CD, was packaged in an aqua/blue-green box. In any case, keep in mind that just because you may be purchasing the AGM edition, it does not necessarily mean you're getting the CD. Which isn't necessarily a problem -- just make sure that you aren't expecting to get it for the price you're paying unless you've confirmed that the CD is included. First editions that come from different publishers than later editions, or that have substantial differences in printing, packaging, etc., are always more valuable on the collector's market than later editions. However, the existence of later editions almost always does bring down the overall value of early editions, even if not to the level of the later editions themselves. Again, 40 US$ was the original price of the non-CD edition that was distributed in the U.S. Hope this helps. -- Jeannette http://www.tarotgarden.com

catlin	26 Aug 2002
Guess what I had Friday in my hands?! The Giger deck. I suppose it was the Taschen edition but without CD. There seems to be some silver on the deck but I think it is no foil but just normal silver colouring. I am very satisfied with myself that I had tucked one copy aside although I am not so fond of Giger Art but for OOP decks I am even adding such a gruesome into my collection.

Pollux	26 Aug 2002
Catlin Congrats!!! Jeanette: I sent my e-mail, mentioning specifically both features. I'm waiting for a reply... But I really think I CANNOT BUY THIS DECK (trying self-persuasion... *LOL*)

catlin	26 Aug 2002
The best thing is that it was around 15 € but I think I'll get it cheaper as a special customer (as it was in the shop I do my readings in). B/W Pollux, when I did some browsing last week, I found several decks which are hard to find or even OOP. I am still expecting the answers from the book shops if they are still available. If so, my collection will have some more precious decks. The Taschen cards are still pretty large and there seems to be a kind of poster or spread sheet included.

Jeannette	26 Aug 2002
Quote: Originally posted by catlin Guess what I had Friday in my hands?! The Giger deck. I suppose it was the Taschen edition but without CD. As far as I can tell, the Taschen edition has never been distributed with the CD. Quote: There seems to be some silver on the deck but I think it is no foil but just normal silver colouring. The silver I'm referring to is not silver foil (like gold foil on the Nefertari deck or anything like that), but silver-gilding on the very side edges of the card, like the gold-gilt edges on the Dali deck. -- Jeannette http://www.tarotgarden.com

catlin	26 Aug 2002
Hi Jeanette, Thanks for the info. I hope I will soon get the deck and bribe my coworker to do the scanning so maybe there is a comparison of the 2 editions possible.

Jeannette	26 Aug 2002
Quote: Originally posted by catlin Thanks for the info. I hope I will soon get the deck and bribe my coworker to do the scanning so maybe there is a comparison of the 2 editions possible. That would be interesting. I think the pictures may be pretty much the same, but maybe not. Giger's stuff is pretty dark, and the sexuality/erotica in the AGM edition is pretty strong. So maybe they did "tone down" the illustrations somehow in the Taschen edition for "massmarket" purposes. As I said, I haven't actually seen the full set of cards of the latest edition with my own eyes... just a few scans on the Internet. It's definitely based on the AGM edition, but whether it's exactly the same, I have no idea. -- Jeannette http://www.tarotgarden.com

Frequency	26 Aug 2002
Another thing... I saw some of the artwork of the Giger deck and it was... well very interesting, but some of the cards -- atleast to me -- made no sense whatsoever. Is it even a tarot deck? What is the point?

catlin	26 Aug 2002
As I only had a chance to flip the deck and book through I cannot comment on the deck here now but I think the book is necessary to get along with the deck as there is also the intention of the artist pointed out.

Helruna	26 Aug 2002
Hi! I am confused about the different editions. About two months ago, I bought my hubby the Giger Tarot in a blue box with a spread sheet/poster and the book. It only contained the 22 Major Arcana. I am a bit torn between hating them cards and liking them. I haven't worked with them, as I find them a bit too disturbing at times, especially the sexuality/erotica part is not always my taste. also, the cards are quite oversized, which makes it hard for me to shuffle them. They have a silver border but I assume it is a later edition, and not the first. I agree that you would be better off having the book with the deck, as the artwork is quite "abstract" and certainly a art of its own. I dare say you like this deck or you don't. But that's just my opinion on this deck. I wouldn't say that it cannot be interesting to read with, but I am not ready yet for this kind of deck... BB, Helruna

Laurel	26 Aug 2002
I have the 2nd edition of the Baphomet deck (with the CD). To be honest, I've thought about trading it a lot. The cards are oversized and I don't care for the music that much, but something keeps telling me to keep it (even though many other decks have come and gone through my hands over the last decade). So I'm hoping I figure out the "purpose" of this deck in my life one of these days. Laurel

Jeannette	26 Aug 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Frequency I saw some of the artwork of the Giger deck and it was... well very interesting, but some of the cards -- atleast to me -- made no sense whatsoever. Is it even a tarot deck? What is the point? If the Giger tarot seems to make "no sense," there's probably a couple of reasons for that. First, the Giger illustrations on the cards were not specifically created for use in a tarot deck. In the back of the accompanying book, there is a list of all the illustrations used, their original titles, and the years in which they were painted. Deck creator Akron received permission to reprint selected works of Giger's in this form. There's nothing in the book (that I could find) that says who selected which of Giger's works to align to which cards, but I would guess that Akron had the largest, if not sole, hand in doing so. Second, the theme of the deck is very unusual. Renaming the deck as The H.R. Giger Tarot may have been a smart marketing move, playing off the recognition of Giger's name, but it doesn't really reveal the point of the deck. The original title -- Baphomet: the Tarot of the Underworld -- explains the "point" of the deck a bit better. Akron's booklet discusses Baphomet, the dark, goat-headed cult figure of the Knights Templar. (NOTE TO ANY LIST EXPERTS ON THE KNIGHTS TEMPLAR: I know nothing about this history or belief system of that group; I'm merely reporting what is in Akron's book, so if there are any errors in my statements here, keep in mind that I'm just the messenger at the moment.) In fact, the original title of the illustration used for the DEVIL card in the Baphomet deck is "Baphomet," so perhaps that illustration has some direct relevance to the subject matter at hand. To quote one relevant passage from the book: "Baphomet is the pictorial representation of the self-recognizing God who looks himself in the eye, and of the glance which recognizes itself in its own eye. He is the pictorial manifestation of the shadow. He represents the spiritual level by which consciousness breaks through polarities of thought and advances beyond the borders of human conception..." In brief, this is a deck designed primarily for shadow work (about which I see another Aeclectic forum thread has recently been started elsewhere). So, in answer to your question, Frequency, I suppose that's the "point." Whether simply matching a bunch of Giger's existing work to the tarot archetypes makes for a good deck for that purpose is a matter of debate, I should imagine. But there you have it. -- Jeannette http://www.tarotgarden.com

Pollux	26 Aug 2002
GGGGGGGRRRRR No answer so far... Maybe they are on holiday.

DollChica	26 Aug 2002
The plain English premise of the Giger is that most people try to develp the light part of their persona, and neglect the dark. However it's the combination of both our inner darkness and inner light that makes us who we are. This deck has more of a whole person concept. Once I got over the whack pictures and actually used the deck, I was amazed about how well they read.

Kaz	26 Aug 2002
i traded my robinwood deck with maan for the giger deck. great trade if you ask me, i love love this deck, the art is superb, and yes it's dark, as someone already has mentioned, but i like that..... indeed might be a great deck for the shadowwork thing that holmes has been posting about (janine renee's tarot shadowwork i believe is the book) kaz, very happy with this deck

RedWood	26 Aug 2002
Argh I cant find it..Can someone please post a direct link for me..i am kinda slooooow lol

catlin	27 Aug 2002
Ok, I got my Giger yesterday evening. It is the Blue box Evergreen edition by Taschen GmbH with 22 cards, 220-page-book and poster/spreadsheet with the "Baphomet head" printed in silver on a black background. As Jeannette had already pointed out, Akron choose the pictures out of the Giger oeuvre as Giger did not see himself apt to create the dark deck Akron had requested as he (Giger) had only a basic knowledge of the Crowley Tarot. In the beginning, Akron wished to create a truly dark deck as the dark aspects he wanted to incorporate in the book about the Crowley tarot he had written together with H. Banzhaf but these darker aspects were rejected by the publisher. There seems to be a homepage at www.baphomet.de

Pollux	27 Aug 2002
On the home page you gave, catlin, I have read MMORPG Massive Multiplayer Online Role Play Game the MMORPG are a new kind of videogames, born around one year ago, and based on games/matches played by people all over the world, connected via Internet. Are you sure it has something to do with the deck? :confused: I can't read Deutch, so I am just guessing - even because I couldn't enter the site either...

catlin	27 Aug 2002
Oh, Pollux, sorry to hear this! I just copied this e-mail addy out of the Giger book but I had no chance to check it before. There is a direct e-mail addy available to contact Akron but I do not know this one by heart. I have to look it up. Did someone a google research with "Baphomet" or "Giger"? I wonder what you got there.

Kaz	27 Aug 2002
go here.......... http://www.baphomet.com/us/cards/fr-cards.htm kaz

Pollux	28 Aug 2002
No reply from Alida yet... I am get quite frustrated. Maybe I should e-mail them again?

rostie	28 Aug 2002
pollux: if you want to find some more stores to buy it maybe addall is the solution, you get a list with the best prices so you can by your own choice... http://www.addall.com and sometimes it is at ebay for a good price...don't know the edition then, by addall you can choose the edition... with love, rostie

Pollux	28 Aug 2002
Got me reply. Here it goes... "Gentile Valerio, Il Baphomet - The tarot of the Underworld (Akron - H. R. Giger) che abbiamo in catalogo è la versione originale della AGMuller edito nel 1993 e non è corredato del CD degli Epilepsy. Cordiali Saluti ======> "Dear Valerio, The B... we have in our catalogue is the original version by AGMuller published/edited (???) in 1993 and it is not accompanied by the CD by Epilespy. Greetings Now I am wondering... Jeanette come rescue me!!!

catlin	29 Aug 2002
Hi Pollux, In the back of my Giger book there are the Baphomet - Tarot of the Underworld and the CD separately mentioned with different ISBN numbers. Guess this won't hellp you to figure out this mystery.

Pollux	29 Aug 2002
Who's the dumber kitten of the Forums? POLLUX! :D I am so dumb! :D It did not occur to me before... You gave me a good idea Catlin, I'll simply have to ask for the ISBN number, and I'll have it figured out! :) Thank you Catlin!!! :* :* :* :* (ARGH! I still have to reply to a PM by you...Bad Pollux! LOL)

Forum Library > Tarot Decks Threads By Month > Baphomet: Tarot of the Underworld - by Akron and H. R. Giger

Originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 25 Aug 2002, and now part of the Forum Library. Take part in active threads about Tarot Decks.