Jungian Tarot is Available!!

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 30 Aug 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Lee	30 Aug 2002
It seems improbable but it's true. The Jungian Tarot has been republished. You can order it from Magus Books. If you click on this link, it will take you right to their page which lists the deck and book. The deck is $19.95, the book is $16.50. I know this is for real because I ordered it, and received it, and am holding it in my hands right now! (Well, actually I had to put it down to type this.) The book is not the original book, "Tarot Psychology: Handbook for the Jungian Tarot," which came with the original deck. Instead, this is a new book by Robert Wang, "The Jungian Tarot and its Archetypal Imagery," copyright 2001. This new book does not contain the 32-week self-study course which was in the original book. It also does not discuss the Minor Arcana -- only the Major Arcana. The original book can be found sometimes in used editions -- I just ordered one from an Amazon reseller. It might be worth searching for if you are going to buy this deck. There is no LWB with the deck. Both book and deck are published by Marcus Aurelius Press, and no address or contact information is included on either book or deck. I wonder if this is Robert Wang self-publishing. The new book says "Volume II, The Jungian Tarot Trilogy." I also wonder if he has republished the original book, which would presumably be Volume I, but I don't know any way to find out. These are not available at the major outlets like Amazon or Barnes & Noble. There is apparently one distributor who has it, and that distributor is distributing them to several New Age stores in the U.S. Most of them don't have on-line ordering capabilities; I had very good and swift service from Magus Books. Tally-ho! :) -- Lee

Lee	30 Aug 2002
Oops, my mistake, there is an address on the deck box. I'm going to write them a letter and ask about the availability of the first book. -- Lee

HOLMES	31 Aug 2002
while i am happy the deck is being republished in fact the thrill is great for i was scared that i would lose my own and never see it again now i can be clumsy in peace (just knocks down the value from 250 to regular price heheh) i got the book and be happy to share trhe 34 week course with any jungian tarorist be forwarned that the minors are changed due to the astrological aspects mentioned in my thread jungian tarot changes meaning

truthsayer	31 Aug 2002
OH LLLEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!! i'm so happy i could :* :* :* you!!! i simply can't believe they are reprinting the jung! but the fact, i ordered it before i posted a reply to your post proves it's true. i want to take no chances that this baby slips thru my fingers before i get a copy. :( $41 w/ shipping when it was going for well over $200 on ebay. OH JOY!!!!!!! good things come to those who wait. 8-) when i saw the post heading i just figured you were going to trade or sell your original. i'm just dizzy w/ excitement--must be careful not to hyperventillate!! ROFLMAO :D now if the dreampower does go into reprint this fall maybe the amber tarot will fall in price next...who says i can't dream??????? :D :) :) :o :o :* :* ((((((((((((lee)))))))))))))))) thank-you so much for this information! am i going to be able to sleep tonight? shoot! i'm not going to be able to tell jewel until monday. she'll have a hissy that i scooped her. :D LOL

Melvis	31 Aug 2002
Yippee! That is so cool! I'll have to go to Magus tomorrow and get myself a copy! Oh...did I mention that Magus is in Minneapolis...where I happen to live? Mwahaahaahaaa! ;) }) :D Peace, Melvis :TSTRE

Lee	01 Sep 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Melvis. Oh...did I mention that Magus is in Minneapolis...where I happen to live? Mwahaahaahaaa! Oh, you are so lucky, no shipping costs! :) -- Lee

Xarokys	01 Sep 2002
YEAH! I just ordered the Jungian Tarot, can hardly wait till it arrives. This deck has been on my wish-list for some time but it was always way out of my budget. Lee, thanks for posting this information!

Alta	01 Sep 2002
Thanks Lee!! I just ordered it as well.

Melvis	01 Sep 2002
I have the Jungian in my hot little hands, and I really like it! My problem is that I was so excited to get the deck that I forgot to get the book(s) too! And be warned...there is NO LWB in this deck. At least there wasn't one in mine. Tarot Passages has a nice review of the original deck by Mark Filipas. The back of the deck's box states this about the books: Quote: The companion book for the cards is Tarot Psychology . Two other books, The Jungian Tarot and its Archetypal Imagery , and Perfect Tarot Divination explaining the history and meaning of the symbols, complete the Jungian Tarot Trilogy. The original book is listed on Amazon but it is OOP; Magus is the only place I've found the second book listed above, and I haven't been able to find the Perfect Tarot Divination book anywhere. Maybe it hasn't been published yet. Peace, Melvis :TSTRE

Lee	01 Sep 2002
As I wrote above, the "new" book only covers the Major Arcana. I've been reading it and I think it's singularly unhelpful if you want to read with the deck. I strongly suggest that anyone who orders this deck try to find a copy of the "old" book. This page lists two used copies as available for $25.00. Barnes&noble.com lists a used copy for $55.37, but that sounds like an awful lot. I wasn't able to find it anywhere else. A frustrating state of affairs! I did order a used copy for myself a few weeks ago and am waiting for it. When I get it, I'll post here and see if I can summarize the basic system laid out for the Minor cards. -- Lee

catlin	02 Sep 2002
Guess what I got today?! The old edition of Jungian cards + book for 17 €, ok, I see, the re-edition diminishes the collector's value of my deck but never mind. I am glad I got this one finally in my collection.

Alta	02 Sep 2002
They now have one copy, because I just ordered one to go with my cards. Edited to add... referring to Lee's post about the 2 copies of the book available.

Jewel	03 Sep 2002
Quote: Originally posted by truthsayer thank-you so much for this information! am i going to be able to sleep tonight? shoot! i'm not going to be able to tell jewel until monday. she'll have a hissy that i scooped her. :D LOL ~clears throat~ AHEM!!! It is Tuesday Missy and I still have not heard from you!!! *LOL* ... I just ordered it, no way I'm letting this one slip either. Lee I would also kiss you for this, but I do not know how to make those kissy faces so this :P will have to suffice *LOL*. How much did you pay for the 1st book on Amazon? Any news if Wang reprinted it? Ohhhh Truthsayer ~giggles~ I will tell you all about the Tarot Ambre when I open it in late October :P ... soon to be hubby has it STILL in its airmail box from Tarot Garden to ensure I do not peak! He doesn't trust me with the box! can imagine that! ~giggles~. We must tell Faunabay about this! I am sure she also needs this deck! Off to PM her I go!

Lee	03 Sep 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Jewel Lee I would also kiss you for this, but I do not know how to make those kissy faces so this :P will have to suffice *LOL*. How much did you pay for the 1st book on Amazon? Any news if Wang reprinted it? I am not picky regarding kisses, any and all are welcomed! :D (I think Pollux is becoming a bad influence on me.) Please don't hate me, I got the first Wang book from an Amazon reseller for $9.48 including shipping. I'm still waiting for it to come, though. I'm going to write the publishers and see if they can tell me anything more. -- Lee

Jewel	03 Sep 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Lee Please don't hate me, I got the first Wang book from an Amazon reseller for $9.48 including shipping. That rocks! no need to run and hide ... gives us all hope! Let us know if it is any good?

HOLMES	03 Sep 2002
in my thread jungian tarot changes meaning lord i guess i have to go find it brb http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6185

truthsayer	04 Sep 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Jewel ~clears throat~ AHEM!!! It is Tuesday Missy and I still have not heard from you!!! *LOL* ... I just ordered it, no way I'm letting this one slip either. oops!...SORRY! :D it's now wednesday that i see i forgot...let me just go hide from jewel... i got an email from magus books today that they put my deck and book in the mail. i wish i had waited on the book since lee wasn't too pleased w/ it but i probably would have ordered it anyhow. hope my new deck gets here by saturday! oh, JOY, JOy, Joy, joy!! this is straying some but--jewel, anyway you could get soon to be spousal unit drunk enough that you might could sneak a peak of the amber before the BIG day? there is another version of the amber out there that had roger zelazney's seal of approval. i saw pix of the cards--its a majors only. i think i saw it at mystic eye. i had only heard of the french version up to then.

truthsayer	08 Sep 2002
i got my deck today! :) the ppl on the cards are a bit stiff and hold their limbs in unnatural poses but i didn't expect the art work to be thrilling like some of my other decks. i really enjoy studying carl jung so it feels almost sacrilegious not having this deck. i've been reading here and there in the book i ordered on the major arcana. i can't say i'm as well versed in jung as robert wang but some of his assertians raised my eyebrow. for example, he calls diana the goddess of the day moon and hecate the night moon. i always thought of the moon only as night and that belonged to diana. her twin brother apollo is the god of the sun so it made sense to me. i've never seen it any other way. i tend to see persephone as the high priestess, demeter the empress and diana the moon(b/c the next card the sun is her twin). i can see the high priestess as diana as the waxing moon and hecate as the dark moon but i've never heard of the goddess selene he considers the empress. i've always thought of demeter as the full moon. of course, she is considered the earth mother so my logic isn't flawless. i don't like his descriptian of of the moon as being "the archetype of the deadly mother". once i read his reasoning it makes sense but i do wish he'd call the archetype something a tad less threatening. there seems to be a male female counterpart to most of the cards except this one. why isn't the tower considered "the deadly father" instead of "protector/avenger" when there isn't a female counterpart to "protector/avenger"? just going thru the deck and deciding if i agree on his choices is going to be fun! i can see right now that me and mr. wang will be having some debates. }) i think i'm going to look for the other 2 books in the set. i also have to get out my books on jung to cross reference why wang chose some of the symbols. i know i've got to do some research into diana, hecate, and selene.

Alta	08 Sep 2002
Interesting post truthsayer! Thanks, and now I am looking forward to my cards and book more than ever. I also studied Carl Jung, though it has been a while now. Why would you say there is no day moon? Haven't you ever seen the moon in the moon in the daytime? The only time you generally cannot is when it is close to new and is just not bright enough, or it is full and then only up at night. Think of it like this. When the moon is full it rises as the sun sets, and sets as the sun rises. The moon rises, on average, 40 minutes later every night, and eventually rises as the sun rises and sets as the sun sets, the new moon. The moons you are most likely to notice during the daytime are the first and last quarters, since they are up in the day time and relatively bright. I never read it anywhere, but I can see where a different goddess might have been asigned to the day moon. The quality of seeing the moon in the daytime is different, and maybe another goddess was assigned to it.

Lee	08 Sep 2002
I agree, truthsayer, I personally find the whole male-female, anima-animus thing rather jarring. Wang takes each Major card and assigns it as either an aspect of the male or the female archetype. The problem with this is that these archetypes are supposed to operate differently depending on whether you're a man or a woman, which is a concept that I find hard to get used to. Also, as truthsayer suggests, assigning them this way makes for some assumptions about whether certain cards are "positive" or "negative" that sound rather strange to modern ears. I agree, the Moon as the Deadly Mother, while the Tower is a positive Protector figure, seems to say more about Jung's (or Wang's) cultural biases than something which could be more universally useful. There are some aspects of the art which I like, and some I don't. I can't help feeling that all those men in white ballet tights look a little silly. Sometimes Wang simply fails to communicate the proper mood; the Star, for instance, looks glum. The faces and hands seem very well-drawn, though. And the Courts have great expressions and facial features. -- Lee

truthsayer	08 Sep 2002
[quote]Originally posted by Marion [b]Interesting post truthsayer! Thanks, and now I am looking forward to my cards and book more than ever. I also studied Carl Jung, though it has been a while now. Why would you say there is no day moon? ] i know that there is a day moon. what i'm talking about is that i've never heard of is a goddess to represent the day moon just like i've never heard of a different god to represent the sun at night. to me if diana represents the moon, she represents day and night. why the separate goddesses? it makes no sense to me. i've read lots of greek and roman mythology but i can't remember ever reading about this separation b/t day and night. diana and apollo were twins. she ruled the moon and he ruled the sun. see? night follows day? the night is opposite of the day? as woman and man are opposites? women rep the passive/receptive forces of night. men rep the active assertive forces of day. yin and yang. negative and positive as in absence of light versus light. it makes me wonder where wang got his mythological information. mythology does tend to be sexist but i don't remember jung saying anything like that in his writing. i can't remember anything like that in any of joseph campbell's either. even tho in jung's day there were more divisions b/t women and men, i've never read anything in which he speaks of females in the same light as wang does. there is a lot of campbell and jung that i haven't read tho so it is possible. now i would expect to see that mindset from sigmund freud's writings.

truthsayer	08 Sep 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Lee I agree, truthsayer, I personally find the whole male-female, anima-animus thing rather jarring. Wang takes each Major card and assigns it as either an aspect of the male or the female archetype. The problem with this is that these archetypes are supposed to operate differently depending on whether you're a man or a woman, which is a concept that I find hard to get used to. *****how true! i always understood from jung's concept of the anima and the animus was to show that everyone has a male and a female part to their personality. but wang separates the two so that it looks like a cultural bias against women instead of a symbolic rep via tarot of univesal archetypes.***** There are some aspects of the art which I like, and some I don't. I can't help feeling that all those men in white ballet tights look a little silly. Sometimes Wang simply fails to communicate the proper mood; the Star, for instance, looks glum. The faces and hands seem very well-drawn, though. And the Courts have great expressions and facial features. -- Lee again i agree w/ you, lee. i do like the HP. when i look at the magician upraised hand, all i can think of is spock from star trek saying,"live long and prosper!" the guys in tights look more than a little silly--particularly the sun. the hanged man isn't too bad. ;) they look as if they are uncomfortable about appearing in their first ballet recital. }) i don't understand why the lovers aren't about love and choices but the archetype of original man. the adam and eve figures i've come to expect have been separated. the lovers now go back to the magician. archetypal woman is strength referring back to how hercules was tamed by the virtue of strength as woman. i can see where he's coming from. i've never made the connection w/ the woman, lion and hercules but i can see it better than i can #6 the lovers. but i thought eve was the archetypal woman b/c in mythology she is first woman. in general the art is well done but still not flowing and relaxed like in the legend arthurian. i do like the facial expressions of the court cards but they look a bit bare w/o any symbolism other than the suite namesake. the queen of wands is naked w/o her required cat!! yeah, the star looks a tad uncomfortable. i can almost hear her thinking,"are you satisfied? i posed for this picture like you wanted even tho i don't like appearing naked in pictures. i'll be here but don't expect me to be happy about it!" okay, i promise i'll find something postive about this deck. i know! i'm enjoying comparing and contrasting it against the jung i thought i knew and the one in this deck! LOL ;) })

Lee	08 Sep 2002
Quote: Originally posted by truthsayer i don't understand why the lovers aren't about love and choices but the archetype of original man I think that's 'cause Wang relates each card to one of only like four archetypes, i.e. animus, anima, persona, and individuation, and anything in Tarot that he can't relate to one of these goes out the window. Am I sounding increasingly negative about this deck? I like it as a curiousity but I'm beginning to wish I hadn't bought two copies of it. :P In her review, Michele Jackson calls the art "competent but unexciting," and I'm afraid I have to agree. The concepts he talks about in his books are quite dramatic, but on the cards he illustrates these concepts in a flat and un-dramatic way. There are a few individual cards I like a lot -- the High Priestess, the Hanged Man. Here's a quote from the original guidebook which I thought was rather sexist: "The Father forgives, the Mother does not." This is repeated many times throughout the book. -- Lee

purplelady	08 Sep 2002
I haven't read this whole post yet, but I just wanted to say thanks Lee for the link to Magus books. It looks like an excellent store with a huge selection of items. I'm impressed!

truthsayer	08 Sep 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Lee Here's a quote from the original guidebook which I thought was rather sexist: "The Father forgives, the Mother does not." This is repeated many times throughout the book. -- Lee sounds like somebody has "issues" w/ mothers b/c that generality certainly isn't true across the board. there are many fathers who don't forgive while mothers do. well, that killed my attempt to exonerate robert wang for being sexist. i will go back and check jung's autobiography but i'm fairly certain he had issues w/ his father not his mother. his father was a minister who lost his faith. as you can imagine, this had an enormous impact on young jung. ;) i feel like if jung said something like "the father forgives, the mother does not" i would have come across something by now. i've been reading about him off and on since at least 1994. i also read his autobiography,"memories, dreams and reflections". the only person i remember him saying much negative about was freud. my impression was that he had a good relationship w/ his wife. who know what evil lurks in the hearts of men? the shadow does!! (jung--shadow--get it?)

Jewel	09 Sep 2002
Well I got my deck on Saturday and only had a few minutes to go through the cards. I agree with Michelle's assessement of the art, but then again I was expecting that so I was not dissapointed. What I am dissapointed about is what you guys have discovered about the book ... sounds like I will be joining Truthsayer in having multiple disagreements with Mr. Wang. Lets just say this book is not high on my reading priority list after reading your comments. And I do appreciate that because I have a ton of books in waiting *LOL*. On a positive note I would like to say that I really like the pips in this deck. I love the background tonalities in the minors which I find mood setting in relation to the element of the card. It also makes the pips easily reversible. I also think I noticed (could be wrong I need to go back, as I only looked through the cards once) but I think the court cards also show a representation of the element each court card stands for in addition to their suit elemental correspondence. Bottom line is that I will probably browse and study this deck more out of curiousity than anything but I doubt I will be putting down my beloved Cosmic Tribe down for it in this lifetime *LOL*. Well this is all I have to say about this for now. Ohhh and Magus Books service was excellent as noted by Lee. Off topic - Lee why did you order 2 copies?

Lee	09 Sep 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Jewel Lee why did you order 2 copies? Because I could! :D -- Lee

Jewel	10 Sep 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Lee Because I could! :D -- Lee Smarty pants! :P

juice	13 Sep 2002
I seem to remember Jung havong a more balanced view toward the sexes than that. I really wanted to see a good Jung tarot cross deck. :( Plus more silly pip cards. Thank you. Thank you very much all. You have save me trouble of dumping money that I need for other things like decks I want more than putting on htis deck now. Maybe somebody mentally healthy will try to do another Jung-tarot project.

Fuzzmello	13 Sep 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Lee I think that's 'cause Wang relates each card to one of only like four archetypes, i.e. animus, anima, persona, and individuation, and anything in Tarot that he can't relate to one of these goes out the window. Am I sounding increasingly negative about this deck? I like it as a curiousity but I'm beginning to wish I hadn't bought two copies of it. This is a problem when we first relate to Jung's interpretations of symbols. We all have our own interpretations (gathered sometimes at great cost to our egos) and have valid communication with the world based on these interpretations. It's tough to incorporate a seemingly arbitrary system worked out by someone else; even if the someone is the unsurpassed scholar, Carl Jung! Quote: Originally posted by Lee Here's a quote from the original guidebook which I thought was rather sexist: "The Father forgives, the Mother does not." This is repeated many times throughout the book. I ask you not to be too quick to judge Wang. He is presenting archtypes in this book, not personalities. Of necessity, there are going to be elements in these rich and complex (and bewildering) assessments that are going to offend. I don't think he intends for us to split these elements from each other as we digest what he's saying. As far as I can see, he is being true to spirit of Jung's work. Might I point out that Jung himself was no softy? He absolutely did not imply a psychology of balance with his work. IMO, he pointed the way for us to find and initiate this balance within ourselves. For my money, the path always begins with acceptance of conditions I can't for the moment see and understand on my own. :) Fuzz

Lee	13 Sep 2002
I agree with Fuzzmello about Jung's interpretation of archetypes. However, I also think that what makes Jung's interpretations successful in psychotherapy is perhaps the very thing that makes them unsuccessful for a Tarot deck. As we all know from doing readings, a reader's personal interpretations need to be broad and flexible. A card can mean one thing in one reading and something completely different in another reading, even if it is the same card in the same spread position in a reading for the same person on two different days. A statement like "The Father forgives, the Mother does not" (which Wang obviously wants to drum into our consciousnesses, since he repeats it many times) simply doesn't have a place (in my opinion) in a reader's aresenal of Tarot concepts, at least not to the degree of importance that Wang wants to give it. The Empress, for example, may very well be unforgiving in one reading, but she is just as likely to be the very soul of forgiveness in another. -- Lee

faunabay	24 Sep 2002
I'm still getting caught up with all I missed while I was gone. And in this instance I'm glad I was gone for awhile. After reading everyone's posts here I'm glad I didn't go out and get this deck. I probably would have jumped on the bandwagon right away and not been happy with the deck. It seems like most of you aren't as pleased as you thought you'd be. The one thing I MIGHT do though is........Lee if you ever decide to trade one of your TWO!! Jungian decks I might do that!! ROFL :D

HOLMES	26 May 2003
in the handbook, it says there is a book called the jungian tarot : an iconological study in cross-cultuaral archetypal imagery (robert wang, urania,1988) perhaps that was book one ? what i want to know is the jungian tarot and archetypal imagery 1. how more does the handbook does ti goes into the major arcana, example in the handbook the handbook only has two pages on the major arcana each 2. how much more does it go into the archetypal imgaery ? is it a reprint but renamed edition of the above mentioned boook? andi hear it has like 270ish pages, compared to the 137 pages of my handbook . is that true ? this link here says 279 pages and 1981 publishing date, so perhaps that book came first , and the cards came after and that is why it doens't include the minor arcana http://www.learntarot.com/judesc.htm i found out urania ( need someone who speak german to use a search engine to do a search for a jungian tarot ) http://www.uraniaverlag.ch/seite_1.htm

truthsayer	26 May 2003
to avoid any confusion with newer threads about this deck, i am closing this thread but you can still reference to it from the archives when needed. ******edited to re-open thread per request of holmes so he can get some replies to his question. sorry about that holmes*********

HOLMES	26 May 2003
i am just basically looking for a list of content for the archetypal imagery book, a thought on how in depth it must go into the majors (one pm said it wasn't very helpful to the deck itself ) but i would like a little more in depth reasons why . perhaps a listing of the back (this book isnt' in the amazon, and magus doens't go that far into detail into the book itself on the site) i liked this thread the best . 1. it really letted people know that the deck was reavaible (besides the review at tarot passages) 2. it give people an good insight in the problems with wang take on jung pyschology and a problem with jungian psycology itself. 3. it had the most posts. 4. so after my book question get answer this thread as being archived would serve best as being the source for all jungian tarot questions :O) so please write me a mini review of the archtypal imagery so i can know if i should invest in it

Brammetje	27 May 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Lee A statement like "The Father forgives, the Mother does not" (which Wang obviously wants to drum into our consciousnesses, since he repeats it many times) simply doesn't have a place (in my opinion) in a reader's aresenal of Tarot concepts, at least not to the degree of importance that Wang wants to give it. The Empress, for example, may very well be unforgiving in one reading, but she is just as likely to be the very soul of forgiveness in another. -- Lee Hi Lee, Perhaps Wang was reffering to the Sephiroth: Geburah (Severity)- female and Chesed (Mercy) - Male......in his (new?) book. I remember that in his earlier works he underlined that these ''concepts'' had nothing at all to do with beeing male or female.........and no major arcana card was only male or female? The Empress could for instance be Violent and not forgiving (severity)....... as well as warm and forgiving.....(mercy)? I have to read more! I haven't found anything troubling me so far while reading .........but I very much dislike to hear about gender differences. Perhaps I must study the book in more depth.... Thanks for the great contributions you all made to this topic! Bram http://www.geocities.com/bramschakenbos

Phoenix_Down	27 May 2003
Back to the whole Diana/Hecate thing... Just to clarify, Diana is a Roman Goddess, and as far as I can tell she has no twin brother. ;) In Greek mythology, Apollo was the god of several things, but mainly art and healing. He was strongly associated with the sun, but not the god of the sun himself. (that belonged to the god Helios) His twin sister was Artemis. Artemis, like her brother is not the goddess of the moon, but was strongly associated with it. (the moon goddess is Selene). She was a wilderness and fertility goddess, as well as a protector of children. She is also strongly associated with virginity. Hecate is a rather dark greek goddess; she is the goddess of crossroads and appears as having three heads: one a dog, one a snake, and one a horse. She is a very ghostly goddess, and is said to haunt a three-way crossroads. Some call her the goddess of witchcraft and evil, but that isnt true (she helped persephone out of the underworld). She is also associated with the moon; more specifically, she is said to appear during the new moon.

Lee	12 Feb 2004
I wrote an e-mail to Robert Wang, using the address on the Marcus Aurelius Press website (Dr. Wang's current publishers). They forwarded my e-mail on to him. I asked him about the projected availability time of the third book in his Jungian Tarot series, "Perfect Tarot Diviniation," and I also included a link to this thread and invited him to participate if he wished. He sent a very gracious reply. He has read the thread and found the group's comments fascinating, but unfortunately time constraints prevent him from actively participating. He said that he expects the new edition of "Qabalistic Tarot" to be available in 2005, and "Perfect Tarot Divination" and their reprint of the first Jungian Tarot book (the one that came with the original set), "Tarot Psychology", at around the same time, although was less sure about the Jungian Tarot books. He did send the following comments about the discussion in this thread about the quote from "Tarot Psychology," "The Father forgives, the Mother does not," about which there was much comment in earlier posts in this thread. Here is what Dr. Wang says: "There is one point raised on your forum which I would like to address. This is the question of the Mother as unforgiving and the Father as forgiving. This refers to Mother Binah as "creating" something which is weighty and enclosing, while Father Chokmah is dynamic, outgoing, and ever-changing. These are ideas which can't be taken literally and which have little to do with gender in the mundane sense. The problem arises in that we have to explain states of consciousness using the linear and limited qualities of our language, but the actual experience of these qualities makes no rational sense. In practical inner terms, the balance between these two is not static and involves constant moving back and forth from one perspective to the other in order to understand and to integrate the lessons of both. We do this all the time at every level, but it isn't conscious." I'd like to express my gratitude to Dr. Wang for addressing our comments. Here is the link to the publisher's website, from which you can order the Jungian Tarot and the second book in his Jungian Tarot trilogy: http://www.marcusaureliuspress.com/ -- Lee

lunakasha	12 Feb 2004
Quote: Originally posted by truthsayer now if the dreampower does go into reprint this fall maybe the amber tarot will fall in price next...who says i can't dream??????? HEY truthsayer!!! What's this about the dreampower going into reprint???? PLEASE tell me more...I have wanted that one since I first laid eyes on it!!! Oh, and I am also excited about the Jungian ;) Just a little more excited about the dreampower and....well, if the Amber becomes available.........yippeee-hoo!!! :D :D :D I guess dreams really do come true.... :) Luna

crystal cove	12 Feb 2004
Just out of curiosity, was anyone else disappointed with the quality of the card stock and box with the reprinted deck, or is it just me? I've only had the deck for six months, and it isn't holding up very well.

Lee	20 Feb 2004
Joan Bunning is selling this deck right now for $15.95, which is 20% off, with free shipping in the U.S. She's getting rid of her inventory, so I don't know how many copies of this she has, but it's a good price. http://www.learntarot.com/salelist.htm -- Lee

mac22	21 Feb 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Lee Oops, my mistake, there is an address on the deck box. I'm going to write them a letter and ask about the availability of the first book. -- Lee If you have any questions i have the original book & deck

Lee	21 Feb 2004
Thanks, mac22, I've since managed to find a used copy of the original book. -- Lee

Moonbow*	12 Mar 2004
I spent alot of time with this deck last night and I am very glad I bought it. I don't have the book and having looked at alot of threads I'm in doubt as to whether to get it when it's re-printed next year. The reason being is that although I have no doubt that it will help me understand many of the symbols, I think it may destroy the intuitive feel of the deck. To me its got no LWB and no card titles for a reason. Maybe the study bit should come later. I like the pips very much because of the colours and the sephiroth spheres, and I think I can use them for meditation with no trouble. The Majors have some symbols in them that I don't understand but I'm still able to use them perfectly well without knowing everything about them. I love the mandalas which is one of the reasons I got the deck. I know this is a great study deck for the Astrology side and Jungian psychology but is there anyone that uses it just for itself and without all the study and the book? Also, while I'm at it, the card is very thin which is a bit of a disappointment but the worst thing is that they smell...... yes ..... horrible..... I've already put them through some incense but its still lingering.

lunakasha	12 Mar 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Moonbow* I don't have the book and having looked at alot of threads I'm in doubt as to whether to get it when it's re-printed next year. The reason being is that although I have no doubt that it will help me understand many of the symbols, I think it may destroy the intuitive feel of the deck. To me its got no LWB and no card titles for a reason.... THANKS for your post, Moonbow*....I have been thinking about getting the Jungian for a looooong time now, but most of the posts I had read made me think this would be very difficult to work with, due to the lack of a companion book (not to mention the cards not being labeled! :eek: But, like you, I am intrigued by the possibility of using the images, which sound very detailed and intuitive, and forming my own interpretations of them!!! My own personal LWB....how cute! :laugh: Quote: but the worst thing is that they smell...... yes ..... horrible..... I've already put them through some incense but its still lingering. Have you tried putting them in sealed box with some fresh sprigs of white sage??? I did this with my Radiant RW and it worked wonders....though you must be patient, it takes about a week! ;) :D Luna

lunakasha	12 Mar 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Lee Joan Bunning is selling this deck right now for $15.95, which is 20% off, with free shipping in the U.S. She's getting rid of her inventory, so I don't know how many copies of this she has, but it's a good price. http://www.learntarot.com/salelist.htm -- Lee Just an update...the Jungian Tarot is no longer available from Joan's website, and is not currently in stock at tarotgarden.com. You can get the deck and book from amazon.com: $19.95 for the deck and Robert Wang's new companion book for $16.50. This one is going on my wishlist, definitely! :D Luna

Moonbow*	12 Mar 2004
Thanks for the tip about the sage Luna. I don't happen to have any at the moment but if it cotinues to smell I will try anything. I got mine from Magus for the same price as you mention Luna. I am delighted with it - its early days yet but I'm getting on fine. From the little I do know about the deck I can tell it has been very well thought out and the use of colour in relation to the Tree of Life is perfect. I put the deck with the NotMS and Gill and its amazing to see the similarities, it's like it all starts to come together and make sense. I think it's one of those decks that you won't get bored with because there is always more to learn from it. I've no doubt that somewhere down the line I will pick up the Astrology bit but for now I'm happy to use it as it is.

Moonbow*	12 Mar 2004
Can anyone give me an insight into what the different levels of colours in the pips means (the backgrounds colours)

Rusty Neon	12 Mar 2004
Now that the Jungian Tarot deck is back in print, it will be less sought after. 'Tis the irony about out-of-print tarot decks coming back into print.

Lee	12 Mar 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Moonbow* Can anyone give me an insight into what the different levels of colours in the pips means (the backgrounds colours) I looked in the handbook that came with the first edition of the deck, and I can't find anything specifically about the colors. Mark Filipas says a bit about the Minor card colors in his review: http://www.spiritone.com/~filipas/Masquerade/Reviews/jungian.html -- Lee

Moonbow*	13 Mar 2004
Thanks for looking Lee. I have read Marks review but he covers the sphere colours and not background ones (as far as I can make out). One day this will be clear to me but for the moment it's a mystery still. M*

Lee	13 Mar 2004
My guess would be that those colors are associated with the four qabalistic worlds of Atziluth, Briah, Yetzirah and Assiah which Mark mentions, representing the suits. -- Lee

mj07	14 Mar 2004
does anyone have a link to see what all the cards in this deck look like? I'm very curious, but have only found samplings (like about 10 cards maybe). Thanks!

Moonbow*	14 Mar 2004
Hi mj I couldn't find a site for the whole deck but I think Mark Filipas' review in tarot passages shows a good variety of the cards. although colours are paler in my deck. Wicce site also shows some and Joan Bunning's. M*

Pagan X	28 May 2004
My quibble with this deck is that it really isn't any more Jungian than many other Tarot decks--Tarot itself already is chock fullo Archetypes. If anything, this one is very particular with an individual vision based on the Occult Kabalah. I'v studied mythology for 35 years. I'd never read of a "day moon" and a "night moon" Goddess attributions in Greek or Roman myth. If something that specific is that arcane, how well can it function at an archetypical level? More people are familiar with the Happy Squirrel at this point in time, and the endless war between humanity and rodents.

Lee	09 Jun 2004
Hi, everyone -- Out of the blue, I received the following e-mail from Robert Wang, creator of the Jungian Tarot. In the e-mail he refers to "your newsgroup," I think he means this forum, which is of course Solandia's. In the e-mail he refers to a discussion earlier in this thread regarding comments he had written in the book accompanying the original edition of the Jungian Tarot, which some members (including myself) thought sounded somewhat sexist. -- Lee Mr. Bursten: I was most appreciative of your comments and for the opportunity to see your newsgroup, which is quite interesting. Since February, I have been persuaded to answer some questions from readers on the Marcus Aurelius Press web site. In this regard, I received another "sexist" question, and attach the answer which I gave and hope that you find it to be appropriate. You might also like to know that a new edition of The Qabalistic Tarot should be available through my publisher's web site in about October. With all best wishes. Robert Wang ---------------------------------------------------------------- Question--I am curious about a comment in one of your books that “the father forgives, the mother does not,” which seems to me to be rather sexist. Could you explain what you mean? Lois Franklin, Los Angeles, California, 2003. Answer---A few months ago this issue was raised on one of the internet forums, and I responded that I was describing a relationship between the Mother, Binah, and the Father, Chokmah, on the Tree of Life. Binah is formative and strict, whereas Chokmah is creative and dynamic without reservation. But since you have raised the question again, let me amplify an earlier repsonse. First of all, gender concerns are political, not spiritual and people who worry about such things may not be ready for an inner experience where there is a constant interchange between male and female attributes. Second, I must admit that I avoided the real answer to this question because I have felt that there are issues which should not be addressed publically. I am beginning, however, to think that we have reached a point of maturity when we can talk about anything openly, if only because few people will understand the principles, and because most people will think this is pure nonsense. The answer is a part of supposedly “secret teachings” which are being conveyed today in many traditions, such as that now called “Wiccan.” What “the Father forgives, the Mother does not” really means is this: Inner teaching is usually begun by a male figure which conveys in the lessons, a sense of trial, adventure and fearlessness. The student is encouraged to experiment in an inner world. Eventually, the male teacher may turn the student over to a female teacher, whose lessons are more advanced and who tolerates no deviation from the course structure which she establishes. It is not unlike a kindergarten student who sings and dances and plays with blocks, suddenly ending up in the first grade and being faced with the rules of learning to read. In this adventure of graduation a point may be made here about which only a few catch on. The Mother/Teacher to whom the developing student is handed over by the Father/Teacher is not infrequently the exact same spiritual guide which is now operating from a different role and perspective for the benefit of the student.

tao51	08 Jul 2004
feel that this deck has its importance.--Tao

The Jungian Tarot is Available!! thread was originally posted on 30 Aug 2002 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.