Dune Tarot

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 13 Oct 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

blue_fusion	13 Oct 2002
i was surfin the internet when i found this: http://www.orlok.co.uk/dune/tarot.htm i really like the overall artistic feel of the deck. :)

fairyhedgehog	13 Oct 2002
What an amazing deck! It had a rather menacing feeling to it, for me. I didn't 'get' all of the pictures I think you might need to know the Dune books better than I do for that. The "Wyrm sign" one for example only makes sense if you've read the books, and I'm sure there was other stuff that I completely missed. Some of them had a real impact, though. I wonder if it will ever be a commercially released deck.

RedWood	13 Oct 2002
I absolutely loved the Dune Books...some of it was boring in the books..but overall I loved them..I want this deck!

blue_fusion	13 Oct 2002
Quote: Originally posted by RedWood I absolutely loved the Dune Books...some of it was boring in the books..but overall I loved them..I want this deck! what are the dune books about? i'm quite intrigued, especially after seeing the deck. :)

RedWood	13 Oct 2002
It has been a long time since i read them...maybe you could get the movie lol...About this guy...errrgh been a long time..They go to the planet Arrakis also called Dune...oh goodness..NM..It has been so long...I vote for getting the movie!! Books by Frank herbert

Jeannette	14 Oct 2002
Quote: Originally posted by blue_fusion20 what are the dune books about? i'm quite intrigued, especially after seeing the deck. :) Personally, I'd vote against introducing anyone to the world of Dune via any of the movies made to date. Dune is to science fiction literature what Lord of the Rings is to fantasy literature. And look how long it took before anyone managed to get a decent adaption of LOTR to the screen. I didn't care for either the David Lynch version (who, in all fairness, was apparently forced to substantially cut the film down for theatrical release, so maybe his original, uncut version was much better) or the recent SciFi Channel version. I'm hardly a "purist" who complains about changes made in the transition from book to film. So I don't think a film or T.V. adaption has to accurately and completely recreate the original written work. But it has to at least make sense, and be a little bit faithful to the "feel" of the story. And these two versions, IMHO, manage neither. The story itself is a sweeping epic, set 10,000 years in the future, about interplanetary political struggles, social change, and the efforts of certain groups to control the destiny of mankind through the creation of a new messiah. But there's really no brief way to describe it that captures the true story or "feel" of Dune, any more than you can accurately describe LOTR by saying "it's about a group of folks who are trying to destroy an evil ring." Sound bites just don't capture what it is. In fairness, Dune seems to be one of those books that people either really love, or they can't manage to make it past the first two chapters. It's not a story for everyone. But if you are the kind of reader that likes epics, especially those that are imaginative, well-thought-out, and richly detailed, then it's a good bet that you'll enjoy Dune. And it would be really awesome to see someone get permission to do an actual Dune tarot. With all the detail in those books, you could easily come up with 78 good matches to create an entire deck. -- Jeannette http://www.tarotgarden.com

purplelady	14 Oct 2002
Ah yes Dune, I rememeber...................far in the future water is a prized and rare comodity, giant worm creatures slither through the vast deserts, and that weird box thing for the hand! Politics, control, creepy and obnoxious rulers. It's one of the rare epics where I actually preferred the movie to the book! If there is more than one movie or T.V. series, I am unaware of it, as I don't have cable. So what I saw was the very first movie. I had a friend who was obsessed with Dune and watched the movie over and over and the books! Personally it Isn't really one of my favorites. But a tarot deck Could be interesting!

RedWood	14 Oct 2002
purplelady...there was an original movie you saw..then a few years ago..they came out with a newer version.>i have not seen either of them.. True Jeanette...i mentioned movies just because of how hard it was to get into the books...After the Frank Herbert books...in the past few years..since he died..i think his son? well anyway..there have been about 3 more books..I think 3...Like House of Araknoir..i would have to look it up...I think they are worth checking out..i would go with library first..then maybe buy thme if you really like them..

blue_fusion	15 Oct 2002
oooh. all these replies makes me want to read it. just how many books are there?

HudsonGray	15 Oct 2002
I've seen the movie & the two Cable adaptations, the last one was the best of the three and actually did it justice. However, be aware if you've never read the books that the books are very complex, especially the first one--even a 6 hour mini series (the last Cable show) can hardly cover everything in it. That version is out on DVD and maybe video tape, check around at the stores, they'll know. But I'd say probably any reasonable sized library has the Dune books, at least the first two or three. You have to read them in sequence, it's a complex story line & isn't something for light reading.

Jeannette	15 Oct 2002
Quote: Originally posted by blue_fusion20 oooh. all these replies makes me want to read it. just how many books are there? Frank Herbert penned six Dune novels in all. In order (both by publication and by storyline), they are: Dune (This is currently the only one that has been adapted to the film/television format) Children of Dune Dune Messiah God Emperor of Dune Heretics of Dune Chapterhouse Dune (Note: after Frank Herbert's death, his son Brian and author Kevin J. Anderson collaborated on and published several "prequel" novels set in the Dune universe, including House Atreides, House Harkonnen, House Corinno, and The Butlerian Jihad.) As with many such series, the original novel remains the strongest of the bunch, from a literary standpoint. I know many people complain about Dune being a "hard read," or that they "just couldn't get into it." But there are plenty of us who picked up the first book, read the first couple of pages, and simply couldn't put it down after that. As with any book, matters of taste and personal preference remain the key factor in whether you find the book to be a "thumbs up" or "thumbs down" read. -- Jeannette http://www.tarotgarden.com

Zhritza	15 Oct 2002
I've been wondering about "Butlerian Jihad..." seems a bit opportunistic in theme maybe? These cards are very lovely, but cold, so cold... brrrr

Jeannette	15 Oct 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Qolus I've been wondering about "Butlerian Jihad..." seems a bit opportunistic in theme maybe? Actually, Herbert does not give a huge amount of specifics regarding the Butlerian Jihad in his Dune novels. There's just enough information to make it clear what a profound effect it had, such that the results still had a direct influence on societies throughout the universe literally thousands of years afterwards. The most interesting and significant part of the outcome, from the standpoint of the six F. Herbert novels, is that although the stories are set in a highly "technological" universe, computers as we know them are non-existant. One of the new "commandments" found in the "Orange Catholic Bible" states: "Thou shalt not create a machine in the likeness of a human mind." This has tremendous implications for the Dune universe, as various groups are able to maneuver themselves into positions of influence and power by developing skills that allow them to perform highly complex tasks -- tasks which those of us in the "real world" would be completely reliant upon computers to perform for us, such as interplanetary navigation. Quote: These cards are very lovely, but cold, so cold... brrrr Hmmm... now there's a paradox -- finding a Dune to be cold when Dune itself is a desert planet. Yet it makes sense -- a large number of the characters in the stories could accurately be described as "cold," being swept up, as they are, in their own ambition or sense of duty. (The former describes the "bad guys," of course, while the latter describes the "good guys.") -- Jeannette http://www.tarotgarden.com _____________________ Live, never to be ashamed if everything you do is published around the world. Even if what is published isn't true. -- Richard Bach

catlin	16 Oct 2002
I could never warm up to the Dune stuff, although the deck would be a nice addy to my collection. I always thougth most of the Dune characters too artificial, only introduced to get on with the story. When the Dune trilogy was on tv here, I wanted to watch it as everyone was making a big fuss about it, but I fell asleep while watching the first part LOL, so I didn't bother about the rest.

Zhritza	17 Oct 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Jeannette and/or Lori Actually, Herbert does not give a huge amount of specifics regarding the Butlerian Jihad in his Dune novels. ...no, I haven't read any of Frank Herbert's novels, I meant opportunistic in terms of current events. Obviously not, so never mind :| :| Regarding the cold thing, now that you mention it, there is a strong waft of Duty emanating from those images. There's so much black, too, and it's not like in the Black (Royo) Tarot where the blackness has a bunch of quivering nude flesh in it to warm it up })

augursWell	26 Oct 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Jeannette and/or Lori Actually, Herbert does not give a huge amount of specifics regarding the Butlerian Jihad in his Dune novels. There's just enough information to make it clear what a profound effect it had, such that the results still had a direct influence on societies throughout the universe literally thousands of years afterwards... Jeanette, I'm wondering if you might know a bit of trivia that I've tried to figure out a few times. I read the first two or three novels when I was quite young and they had a very profound effect upon my interest in Science Fiction in general. It seems to me that there were references to divination and/or tarot decks in the stories themselves and something to the effect that they were misleading in some way to the characters involved. Do you have any sense of which book(s) talked about this and how important this was to the story line?

Jeannette	27 Oct 2002
Quote: Originally posted by augursWell Jeanette, I'm wondering if you might know a bit of trivia...It seems to me that there were references to divination and/or tarot decks in the stories themselves and something to the effect that they were misleading in some way to the characters involved. Do you have any sense of which book(s) talked about this and how important this was to the story line? augursWell: I don't recall any references to the use of tarot specifically in the Dune novels -- if it's in there, it must be a small reference-in-passing. But divination is, in a very real way, part of the "heart" of the Dune storyline. To spend much time outlining it here would probably take this thread too far afield of the discussion of tarot decks. If an in-depth examination is of interest -- and, now that you bring it up, it does strike me as a fascinating topic for this crowd -- it might be better-placed under the "Divination" heading. But -- to whet folks' appetites, and see if it's worth starting a new thread, here's some of the key points, "in a nutshell": the planet Arrakis, a.k.a. "Dune," is the only known source of the spice "melange," which is why control of the otherwise barren, godforsaken planet is so strategically crucial in the stories. Melange is, in fact, a drug that can enhance mental abilities, and even produce prescient and precognitive visions when ingested -- to a greater or lesser degree, depending upon the abilities and training of the person using it. People in positions of high power often rely heavily on members of the order of the Bene Gesserit to serve them as advisors. The Bene Gesserit, in turn, are a sisterhood who (among their other abilities) are able to utilize melange to "divine" information with incredible accuracy. Much of the crux of the first book rests in the efforts of the Bene Gesserit to breed a "Kwisach Hadderach" -- a male with super cognitive and precognitive abilities that can envision all possible futures and follow the chain of events necessary to bring about a certain one. This brief description doesn't truly and accurately capture the depth and subtlety of the concept behind the early Dune novels, but it should provide a little of the general "flavor." If anyone is interested in continuing this discussion, I invite them to start a thread on the appropriate forum, and make a post here (or send me a PM) to let me know. It might be interesting, for example, to examine how tarot is, or can be, used to explore "multiple possible futures" through reading or meditation, and how far one can "push" this concept through the medium of the cards. -- Jeannette http://www.tarotgarden.com

Lee	27 Oct 2002
Quote: Originally posted by augursWell It seems to me that there were references to divination and/or tarot decks in the stories themselves and something to the effect that they were misleading in some way to the characters involved. Do you have any sense of which book(s) talked about this and how important this was to the story line? Not to contradict my friend Jeannette, who is much more knowledgeable than I am about most things, but I believe that there is a specific Dune Tarot which is mentioned in one of the books. Unfortunately I cannot remember which precise one! I know it's either Dune Messiah or Children of Dune, and my guess would be the latter. Like you, augursWell, I recall that they were an important plot device. -- Lee

Jeannette	28 Oct 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Lee Not to contradict my friend Jeannette... Contradict away, Lee! My last re-reading of Dune only consisted of the first novel. If there are references to tarots in the later novels, I'm sure I probably missed or forgot. Shame on me! Quote: ...who is much more knowledgeable than I am about most things... LOL! Flattery will get you everywhere, but I still can't take credit where credit isn't due. But thanks for the compliment! -- Jeannette http://www.tarotgarden.com

augursWell	29 Oct 2002
I went ahead and added a thread in the Divination forum at: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8636 My guess is that it was Dune Messiah where that reference was but I'm only guessing. Probably one of those opening pieces that usually started each chapter. I've long since lost my copies of the books. You can probably guess what I'll be picking up at the bookstore sometime this week. :)

jmd	10 Nov 2002
As I too had not recalled the specific mention of Tarot in the books, I posted the question on Usul's Dune Forum discussion. Usul's response was that indeed Tarot is mentioned specifically in Dune Messiah. I certainly did not recall this. Usul's full response, including a quote, is viewable on that Forum, viewable here.

Silverlotus	10 Nov 2002
Dune Tarot is mention quite a bit in Dune Messiah and possible Children of Dune. It's also in the (non-cannon) Dune Encyclopedia with some pictures of some of the cards. I think the Tarot from the link in this thread are more what I pictured in my mind then the ones in the Dune Encyclopedia. And, since the books and movies are sort of being dicussed, I'd like to add my 2 cents Canadian. ;-) I love all the books! I've read Dune 8+ times, and I'd still read it again. My fav book is God Emperor of Dune. Go Leto! :-) The newer books by Anderson and Herbert Jr. aren't bad, but they aren't up to the quality of the orignal, IMHO. I'm looking forward to their release of Dune 7 (as mentioned in the author notes in House Atreides). And the movies aren't very good, but enjoyable none the less, again IMHO. :-) Silverlotus (a HUGE! Dune fan)

migueldart	11 Nov 2002
DUNE has become just about the biggest bestseller in the Middle East ever, only second to the KORAN, I think. Substitute oil for "spice", and you'll see why.

juice	15 Nov 2002
Unlike most here I thought the first movie followed the book closer than almost all such movies I had seen before. (Chamber of secrets starts today) I didn't have trouble following the movie because I had read the books. Yes the movie and books were a bit disjointed in that the author knew a lot about how the world worked and he couldn't tell you why something happened before it did without making a boring history book. People think it is slow and boring because of all the history and setup he is trying to get into the story so you are just a little grounded. I sometimes don't tell people to see a movie before they read the book but this has been an exception in the past. The intro people have given you hear will help more than you could imagine in getting into the story so that you can read the book. I hae read all 4 books (at that time) and enjoyed the story and then someone had to explain things I missed. Part of that proplem is some things were barely hinted at before you get to the last book. Oh yeah this deck... The art is a bit simplistic and I can't see the people in the Dune universe using it. Besides, it's an oracle and not a tarot. What card do you think worm sign hooks up with.

The Dune Tarot thread was originally posted on 13 Oct 2002 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.