Are themed decks stupid?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 26 Nov 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Persha	26 Nov 2002
I was just thinking about the variety of themed decks available, particularly those based on books or movies or relatively mundane things - like Lord of the Rings Tarot, Star Wars, the Playmobil Tarot mentioned in a previous post. I sometimes have fun trying to fit characters of my favourite books into the cards as well. But I'm concerned as to whether decks like this have real value as a tarot deck. Sure, they have novelty value, but is that it? Do they devalue the other 'serious' decks (ie. made with diviniatory/meditation/generally mystical purpose or symbolism in mind)? Are they just plain stupid? What does everyone think? - Persha

blue_fusion	26 Nov 2002
on the contrary, i think they bring tarot closer to a greater variety of people, at least for the well-thought of theme decks. as these people can relate more to the themes of the decks, then they can understand the symbolisms of the tarot better. this, of course, applies totheme decks wherein the representations of the cards are, again, well thought of. also, giving a theme to a deck may give new insights to the card meanings themselves, attributing to the slightly different symols used (as no theme can really have symbolisms/figures which exaclty fit the description of any card in the deck). to say that they are stupid is being rash and judgmental, and does not explore new insights and possibilities which might emerge from the new decks (as well as does not recognize the possibility of growth from these new insights). :)

Rhiannon	26 Nov 2002
Some theme decks have been very well done, and others have not. I think it really depends on the author/illustrator of the deck and thier knowledge of tarot symbolism and the care they take to get it right. I like themed decks, they make me think about the cards in a different light and help me to understand better in many cases. R :)

rota	26 Nov 2002
If the Tarot were literature, theme decks would be pulp fiction. I don't know about you, but I don't read Dante's 'Divine Comedy' and Shakespeare's 'Hamlet' *all* the time... You might find me with a spy novel once in awhile. And without 'Odysseus' and 'Beowulf', we might never have had delightful foolishness like 'James Bond' and 'Indiana Jones'. (And come to think of it, why isn't there a James Bond Tarot...?)

kabuki	26 Nov 2002
I think that my response to themed decks depends on how I view the aim in which they were created. Some themed decks seem to be created from a commercial point of view - I often imagine people in a board room discussing different markets they can tap into to make as much money from their 'product ... t shirts, mugs, playstation games, toys, stickers and tarot cards etc, using surveys to work out what their market is interested in and will buy. These ones I think are probably knocked up quickly, without much thought into the symbols etc used, and designed purely to make a profit. Other themed decks seem to be created so that people can explore with more focus specific areas of thought, spirituality, ideas etc. I think that I trust these themed decks more as I believe that the people creating them have at least thought about the way the pack is constructed in relation to peoples beliefs and spiritual needs rather than just making a quick profit (although, obviously profit will be a part of it).

JC	26 Nov 2002
Some decks are okay. I recently got the Mythic tarot, and while the story arcs on the minors don't bother me, some of the deities on the majors do. As does the illustration. On the other hand, right now I'm doing most of my readings with Lo Scarabeo's Crystal Tarot, which is supposed to be themed on Klimt's artwork. It took about three months for me to over my hangups with this deck's illustration, but now that I'm using it I'm really enjoying it!

allibee	26 Nov 2002
Hi rota, there is a James Bond tarot - sort of - *LOL* It is actually called the James Bond tarot! Keeps changing hands on ebay for enormous sums of money. It is actually a reproduction of the same deck used in Live and let die. JAMES BOND/007 TAROT DECK WITH ILLUSTRATIONS FROM ARTIST FERGUS HALL. COMPLETE SET FROM 1973. allibee

HudsonGray	26 Nov 2002
Themed decks may be the right stimulus for someone to finally pick up a pack & get involved in tarot! Look at the Lord of the Rings deck, that got a lot of new people at least looking at it. Each one fits into a niche market & (good or bad) does double duty--it might connect with someone who's already in tarot, or it might bring in new blood & expose them to the concept of tarot cards. Either way, there's a definite use for the decks. Those people who want to stay with the historically accurate cards will always have the older decks available. But I think there's more people out there that are open minded enough to consider theme decks than there are purists. If the deck's crappy, it'll fall by the wayside. If there's merit, someone'll be interested!

Lee	26 Nov 2002
Quote: Originally posted by allibee JAMES BOND/007 TAROT DECK WITH ILLUSTRATIONS FROM ARTIST FERGUS HALL. COMPLETE SET FROM 1973. This deck is an earlier edition of what is now available as Tarot of the Witches from USGames. So if you like this deck, no need to pay big bucks on Ebay -- just order Tarot of the Witches! :) -- Lee

WolfSpirit	26 Nov 2002
I have nothing against themed decks, I like some more than others, that's all. There's some decks out that took the rider-waite tarot and substituted the humans in the deck with something like stick figures (stick figure tarot), gummy bears or a cartoon character (hello kitty tarot). These decks are not really great spiritual or artistic creations, once you get the character you want to use you just copy the images of the rider-waite, but I still like these decks, they are easy to read (as I learnt to read with rider-waite) and they bring a bit of humour in a reading. Some artists put more effort in making a themed deck of course...some easier to read than others...sometimes I like it sometimes I don't. I have no problem with decks based on movies or on food or on their favourite animal...

Shadow Wolf	26 Nov 2002
If a deck speaks to you, and you seem drawn to it then that's all the advice you need to know that this is the deck for you.

Molly	26 Nov 2002
What is a "themed" deck specifically? I have heard often that the Halloween tarot is an excellent reading deck... I know that the Victoria Regina Tarot (based on images from the Victorian era) is in high-demand as well as the Buckland Romani (gypsy culture)... those decks I would consider "themed" for example, but they have been used and beloved by many. It really depends on what appeals to each individual. I have heard of all kinds of criteria/ likes-dislikes.... it's pretty much what works for you as an individual - there is no common/mainstream/acceptable style, tradition, deck, or thought-process when it comes to tarot.

Sea Sprite	26 Nov 2002
I have nothing against themed decks, I like some more than others, that's all. There's some decks out that took the rider-waite tarot and substituted the humans in the deck with something like stick figures (stick figure tarot), gummy bears or a cartoon character (hello kitty tarot). These decks are not really great spiritual or artistic creations, once you get the character you want to use you just copy the images of the rider-waite, but I still like these decks. I agree! :D

VGimlet	27 Nov 2002
I don't necessarily think themed decks are stupid - there are actually quite a few that I like, and a few that I love. But unless a themed deck really clicks with me, I find it more difficult to read with them than a standard deck. Aside from that - just like IRL, I say...whatever makes you happy. :D

jmd	27 Nov 2002
I find that a 'themed' deck is a great way for an illustrator to come to terms with some aspects of the Tarot - if one is really into, for example, Greek mythology, to design something like the Mythic is great. However, I do not not that any 'themed' decks can ever achieve the purity of non-themed ones, as the themes become like coloured lenses through which one views the Tarot, rather than allowing the Being of the Tarot to 'speak' for itself. Themes can, of course, like rose-coloured glasses, give a coherent look to each card.

juice	27 Nov 2002
When you get down to it, some may think of historical decks as themed. It's all shades of gray. Admittedly, if I don't like a deck, I'll call it a stupid themed deck. :) :)

rostie	27 Nov 2002
the only thing that is important that is that it speaks to you and that it's well done...illustrated with the knowledge of tarot...then no deck is 'stupid'...when it is just a collection of pictures then it may called stupid through some people for others it's just a collectors deck...i don't think any deck is stupid only some (or a lot ;)) decks aren't your taste :) my main deck is actually a theme deck: the phantasmagoric theater deck, it brought me closer to tarot, to understand tarot...it speaks to my unconcious like no other could, so what is 'stupid'??? with love, sara.

truthsayer	27 Nov 2002
if you think about it all decks have some kind of theme or pattern that's followed. i think what's called a theme deck might be more acurately called a popular culture deck. there are decks that follow what's generally seen as traditional tarot--marseilles or rider waite smith. ideas that have become decks particulalry in the past 30 to 40 years have a tendency to follow ideas of popular culture like a buffy deck or star wars deck. celtic stuff is very popular so now there's a flood of celtic decks. then there's a trend for art decks. i wonder what pop culture decks for 500 years ago might have been like? ;) the black death tarot or the spanish inquisition tarot! LOL

zander770	27 Nov 2002
recently i heard/read a lot of praise for the "halloween tarot deck"! personally, though, i DO think that some "theme decks" are just, plain "silly" (e.g., the new "tarot of oz" deck, et. al.) i dunno. people DO buy them, right? i suppose that they help bring in a "new young breed" of future occultist! ~Z~770 :T2P

Silverlotus	27 Nov 2002
I've never really liked theme decks. I've always wanted a deck that features traditional symbolism, although I don't mind if there is a bit of a pagan twist. :) But lately, for various reasons I haven't fulled explored yet, I've been looking for a softer, fantasy feeling deck. Maybe I'm tired of the harshness of recent events. *shrug* Anyway, I find that the feeling I want seems to mostly come from theme decks and oracle decks. Personally I've always sorted of lumped the two together. I guess you could say in the past I have been a bit of a Tarot snob. If it didn't use RW, forget it! Now I realise that decks with different feelings, and even non-Tarot decks, can be useful. Especially when focusing on self-discovery, and not just divination. Although I will say I'm still a bit biased against some theme decks. Like ones that don't pull together symbolism correctly, and seem to assign any piece of art to a card because it looks like it sort of fits. My search is still on for the right "soft" feeling deck, and I am definitely considering theme decks now.

Laurel	27 Nov 2002
From the collector's outlook or someone who simply loves a genre or allowing a "playful" look at tarot, I think themed decks are spiffy. There's such a thing as taking oneself and one's obsessions too seriously. When it comes down to personal 'work' or using tarot as a tool for reading/spiritual counseling though, I prefer esoteric tarots with roots in traditional tarot/occult symbolism. Laurel

Molly	27 Nov 2002
Well said, truthsayer... Also, I don't think themed decks are just a way to introduce tarot to people - some who buy a themed deck solely for the theme may never contemplate another deck ... which is okay (because some people will get into tarot seriously and some people won't), but that isn't really an introduction. I think themed decks appeal to people who are intrigued by that theme - could be someone who is only a collector - but is usually someone who is serious about tarot. In other words, I believe the majority of serious students of tarot, symbolism, esoteric thought, spirituality, most likely own at least one theme deck. I mean there are hundreds upon hundreds of decks out there - and most people have more than one interest in life and multiple things they are passionate about. And we all know how difficult it is to limit ourselves to just one deck - most people who love tarot will catch the collecting bug. So just because someone buys and uses a themed deck doesn't mean they aren't a serious student of tarot. It just means they happened to have found something they enjoy (the "theme") combined with something they love (the tarot). What's wrong with that?

Jewel	27 Nov 2002
I really like the points that both Truthsayer and JMD have made. There are good and not so good themed decks out there. I think the premiss for a good themed deck is a creator and artist that have a deep understanding of tarot and its symbolism. Not all themes will lend themselves to making a good tarot deck, but many can. Although a Majors only deck, the Tarot for Cats is a great example of a very good themed deck. The Unicorn tarot is an example of a deck where more research and knowledge could have greatly improved the deck.

Demonesse	27 Nov 2002
I like themed decks, if they can meet my criterion. I like to see if the artist meets my expectations in terms of artistic beauty, clarity and depth, because I am one unforgiving critic. Common themes are Celtic, Erotic, Mythological, Gothic or Nature-inspired themes. The Vampire is one theme deck that has fun art, but lacks clarity and depth. The Halloween, on the other hand, does very well indeed on all three counts. Like Jewel said, some decks could have been much better if only a little thought and research was put in; like tarot, themes generally have many aspects to them that must be explored fully for it to culminate is a successful deck. A well-written LWB helps too.

Persha	01 Dec 2002
thankyou all for convincing me of the value of themed decks - the idea of them being a way to intoduce 'new blood'/new ideas into the tarot tradition, interest to collectors, being a new set of 'lenses' - rose coloured or otherwise - through which to see the cards and the fact that there's nothing wrong with a little stupidity at times! -persha

Cerulean	01 Dec 2002
I enjoy hearing lots of people on this thread. I was wondering if anyone would have pointed out some of the 'historical' decks had definite themes...the Visconti Sforza deck could be seen as all about being a glorious Visconti-Sforza Milanese, especially if you resembled Bianca Maria. But even the theme deck had twists that make them their own flavor, especially if you realize that your interaction with the art is very personal...the tarot tales you envision only start from the art theme. Do you all read with your theme decks? Two of my favorite (this week) themed decks are the Marco Polo/Journey to the Orient and the smaller Romeo and Juliet. I haven't decided if the Marco Polo has a Marseilles/Rider base or another mixed structure yet...but any interactive East-West scene brings up ideas for me. My husband actually thinks everything about the Marco Polo seems more Asian in its journey. To me the interactions depicted are both tarotlike and interactive with Western ideas...still trying to get the twists down for me. The art was almost instantly a favorite with me. The Romeo and Juliet does have a Marseilles background as well as the Shakesphere motifs...and Scapini's humor, as well as some of my thoughts that I like the paintings best in this Scapini tarot. I'm beginning to read with it...more to the point, the theme and small little stories in the enclosed booklet made me like it even more.

Small-tree	02 Dec 2002
i think all decks are themed.....whether it is themed after traditional symbols or movies or well...whatever. the important thing is to get a deck that u can relate to right? So pple like me (beginners...:P)....if i bought a deck rich in symbolism but dun even know what the symbolism stands for in the first place....the deck wouldn't be of use to me. I like decks that allow me to think of many things. By just looking at the pictures, i can envision what i think happened before and after the card...like a small piece of time frozen on the card. As a lit student everything has a theme even cinderella, wizard of oz, shakespeare........... haha. after saying all this........i must admit that sometimes i am wary of decks modeled after movies......cos i am afraid that the movies itself would have imprinted a fixed image in my mind. I thought LOTR was great when i read the book...lots of things to think about, each time i read the book i see a whole new meaning in so many things.......After watching the movie.....still found it great but now everytime i envision the elves.........keep seeing Legolas in my mind.......umm which is not so good......think elves represent more than Legolas.... :D

RiccardoLS	05 Dec 2002
I sometimes ask myself - when looking at a new deck - or considering a new deck idea - the question: "what would this add to what I know about Tarot?" Some theme decks use the theme as a methaphore to bring new facets and new ideas (or just a different perspective) to the Tarot deck. [for instance look at the devil card on dante's tarot ([url]http://www.tarotpassages.com/danteart-pg.htm[/url])] These are among the decks I prefer, and like most. Some others theme decks are just a new set of clothes for your "barbie deck". Same doll, different clothes. I find those amusing, but they are just playthings, and will probably fade from anyone attention after a little while. Riccardo

Ophiel	05 Dec 2002
My personal preference is for more esoteric decks. Having said that, I now await the arrival of the Tarot of the Imagination (Ferenc Pinter.) Okay, and now, having said that, AND that, Tarot can be about archetypal symbols. Our modern culture has new symbols than did earlier cultures, and for some, these archetypal energies can portray those energy manifestations for us. Look at some of the popular cultural themes, like Star Wars, and how close they approach a level of mythology for many. Rather than have a fixed archetypal image, we gain more interacting with our world recognizing those symbols throughout our lives, inner and outer.

jmd	06 Dec 2002
Glad to have your postings again, Ophiel. In terms of mythological thinking, it is quite interesting that the example of Star Wars has, apparently, the hand of Joseph Campbell... and hence his important contributions to mythos. As to whether these reflect 'archetypes' would be worthwhile discussing in another thread... in Talking Tarot.

Khatruman	09 Dec 2002
Quote: Originally posted by rota ...without 'Odysseus' and 'Beowulf', we might never have had delightful foolishness like 'James Bond' and 'Indiana Jones'. (And come to think of it, why isn't there a James Bond Tarot...?) Wow, an idea I didn't think of, and a way to show my students the importance of these works (both of which I teach, incidentally). Thank you for that insight. (Hmmm, wonders what card ***** Galore would be?) Peace!

Khatruman	09 Dec 2002
Didn't know there was a censorship issue here.... It was that other word for Kitty... Galore ;) Peace! PS. she IS a James Bond character!

ihcoyc	09 Dec 2002
Unfortunately, there is a James Bond Tarot. It's the Witches' Tarot, featured in the "Live and Let Die" (I think) movie, the one with Jane Seymour, a psychic Tarot reader who loses her powers after she has sex with Mr. Bond. One of the lesser lights in the series. I suspect many will agree with me that this is one of the least satisfactory decks ever made. It makes all the figure cards ugly, w/o adding any particular symbolism or viewpoint. It's a pip card deck, for those who dislike them.

Aerin	12 Dec 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Lee This (the James Bond deck) deck is an earlier edition of what is now available as Tarot of the Witches from USGames. So if you like this deck, no need to pay big bucks on Ebay -- just order Tarot of the Witches! :) -- Lee Or else trade a deck for it, I have a copy in my possession which a friend would like to trade. It is on the UK/ Europe trading forum. She isn't fussy about what she has in exchange as long as it is a gentle sort of a deck. Aerin

tarotbear	20 Dec 2002
Themed decks are not 'stupid' but I find a lot of them are great ideas without enough 'ooomph' to carry through. Sometimes the artists have no knowledge of tarot to begin with. One example is the Alice in Wonderland tarot- sounds like a great idea! IT SUCKS! The creators had to stretch to find images for all the cards (although the Jabberwock as the Devil is interesting)and they start looking like they didn't care by the time they finished the deck. They also changed the suits -- Pentacles= Oysters; Cups = Mad Hatter Hats, Wands = Peppermills, and (ready?) Swords = FLAMINGOES??? Although I think the LOTR deck has a few stretches, there is so much fanasy imagery in Tolkien's works that creating a deck was inevitable. And I think the deck works. Every deck has a 'theme'; it's just that some artists are more creative than others.

Trish	21 Dec 2002
Yeah ... it all depends on what the theme is and how well it is put together. The creator of the deck has to have enough knowledge to be able to incorporate the theme properly into the deck. For example, the Shakespearean deck seems quite well-done. So is Legend: The Arthurian Tarot An Alice in Wonderland deck could probably be done, it just needs to have more thought put into it. A James Bond deck ... ? Is that even possible?

The Are themed decks stupid? thread was originally posted on 26 Nov 2002 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.