in progress: tarot of the four worlds

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 11 Nov 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Ravenswing	11 Nov 2002
hi guys-- laurel and i are blending talents together to create what she terms the "Tarot of the Four Worlds". so far, we'got the aces. WARNING: none of the cards will be labeled in any way; they are strictly images... enjoy raven

Ravenswing	11 Nov 2002
the ace of disks--

Ravenswing	11 Nov 2002
the ace of wands...

Ravenswing	11 Nov 2002
the ace of swords... hey! this is my 500th post :D seems fitting somehow now an official elder raven

jmd	11 Nov 2002
Congratulations, Laurel and Ravenswing - the cards so far are great designs - though to say that 'none of the cards will be labeled in any way; they are strictly images' is either incorrect, or that implies that you intend taking the invocations off the band, and the sigils off the image ;) The hexagonal design is both innovative and quite significant for a deck which appears to want to include much Qabalistic and Golden Dawn elements - looking forward to your other designs... and let AmounrA know, I'm sure he would be interested in your work.

Keslynn	11 Nov 2002
Great job, guys! I really love what you've got so far. Even though I don't understand any of the Hebrew lettering, I like the fact that there's that level of depth. I also like the hexagonal design. Would you actually make the cards that shape? That would be really neat. And raven, congrats on being an Elder. :) Kes

violinlily	11 Nov 2002
hey, me three on the hexagonal shape!! looks great, I like the ace of swords. It's great that u are making your own deck, it'll look great when it's finished. I also congratulate you on being an elder, violinlily

Jewel	11 Nov 2002
Ohh very nice!!!! count me in on the hexagonal band wagon. I love the use of Qabalah, the elements and geometry. By leaving the majors un-numbered you will have solved the Justice/Strength positioning as well as the placement of the Fool. Congratulations Laurel and Ravenswing, I look forward to seeing the rest of the deck (and if it gets published I want a signed copy!)

AmounrA	11 Nov 2002
I think this deck is fabulous and is coming 'in' from a very interesting angle....a very workable deck ! The hexagonal format wll look great when the deck is complete, and it can start to be played with like a jigsaw with no set patten..excellent. I am looking forward to seeing the pips develop, as I know your being experimental there, with a novel and clever way of doing them. Tarot of the four worlds........great title aswell. They deserve to be published.

Ravenswing	11 Nov 2002
to jmd-- i have to remember to say what i mean and mean what i say. :) anyhow, we're hoping to get this out real soon. laurel is providing me with the basic content/intent of the cards and letting me sail with it. the hex shape'll nest real good. we're working out a 'honeycomb' spread-- 6 cards around a central one. it ought to look real nice. the next set is the twos. as soon as they're done i'll post them. hopefully, we can get a web site up before the fours. oh, one real nasty about these. if you thought reversals were bad, these cards can fall in 6 different orientations... }) here is the card that started this deck out. laurel gave me a rundown on the magician, so here it is. (i expected to go through the rest of the major arcana, but she shifted gears and started with the aces) hope you like it raven ps-- yes, we're going for a book too...

Jewel	12 Nov 2002
The Magician is AMAZING! I love it!!! Hey Ravenswing ... perhaps as the cards tilt in 6 different ways they can be related to elemental influences ... just a thought.

Laurel	12 Nov 2002
I can't tell you guys how much fun Ravenswing and I are having on this project. We are indeed going to attempt to have the cards cut as hexagons- wish us luck. We're both talking about working on a book to accompany it too. Don't expect us to be selling this to US Games any time soon, I personally don't think we have near enough the professional polish yet, but I think its going to be an amazing deck, and the hexagonal cards create completely new spread potentials because of the patterns they make. Ravenswing is a madman when it comes to how much he can accomplish in a very short period of time. My mind cannot keep up with his daimonic drawing skills most days. LOL. I'm getting better. I just took a peak at rough draft of the Two of Cups in my email and its one of my favorites- but I say that every time he shows me a new card. Laurel

MeeWah	12 Nov 2002
Ravenswing & Laurel: WOW!! I am very, very impressed with the joint vision & eager to see more! The cards are living up to their intriguing name. The shape of the cards adds a unique dimension to the individual card. There is a tantalizing feel of shifting perceptives & intensities within each card that is very different from any deck I have seen yet. The Magician especially conveys power--as it should. This is a very exciting & as JMD stated, innovative deck concept. I am looking forward to your progress. & I like that a book is planned, too.

violinlily	12 Nov 2002
WOW GUYS!!!! i still love the hexagon, but that magician is AWESOME!!!!!!! can I ask: what's the medium, or is it giving away too much?? colored pencil, Photoshop??? violinlily

Ravenswing	12 Nov 2002
violinlily-- i got the method from robin wood's book on her deck. i do a pencil sketch, sort of a blocked in version. then i put a piece of tracing paper on top of it and color it in. the tracing paper gets scanned in and that's what you see as the image. the great thing about this method is that if you don't like what the colored version looks like, you still have the original. so, you can start again with the sketch exactly the way you wanted it. i can throw the image into photoshop and do whatever to it. i haven't yet, but it would work well for corrections. other than that, i haveno plans to use photoshop-- i like to be able to touch my pencils and brushes. next card i post, i'll put up the sketch and the final. that way you can really see what happens working out the 2's raven

sparrowspirit	12 Nov 2002
It is so thrilling to see the creative process proceeding! LOL! Thanks so much for sharing this. It is very inspirational and I find I am running to check the thread to see the new cards as they come up. Keep on keepin' on! Sparrow

Ravenswing	13 Nov 2002
laurel-- madman huh?? }) LOL!! well, i am a cancerian, but i always prefered lunitic :) . much nicer disease ;) . anyway, the deck woke me up to work on it :D . and so... presenting *** rum droll here*** the two of wands... too late (early?) to go back to bed ravenswing

Trogon	13 Nov 2002
Laurel & Ravenswing; So far your Tarot cards are great! Love the artwork. Looks as though it will also be a very "readable" deck as well... looking forward to the next posting...

Ravenswing	13 Nov 2002
hi guys-- well, there's 78 cards, but only one back. here it is. raven

Pollux	13 Nov 2002
Oh! LOVE IT!!! I LOOOOOOVE IT!!! So get it published!!! Soon!!! *LOL* Ravenswing, I gather that at the pace you are working, the deck will be finished SOON. YIIIIPPPPPPEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!! *LOL* I really like the Aces and the Magician, and the 2 of Wands. But I have a question for the cards' back - why those seven colours, but with the base one tatra-cromatic? How come you chose to insert the four-colous one in the bottom instead of the center? (Obviously, due to the hexagonal shape there's no real bottom, but you might get what I mean). And why THOSE four colours (black, brown, green yellow I think)? Enquiring minds want to know! ;) And don't forget to take notes while you wall, for the accompanying book! ;) *LOL* Keep it going, guys!!! *droooooooooooools*

evenstar	13 Nov 2002
Wow, these are GREAT! I really like the Magician... and the hexagonal shape too (like many others here). It will be interesting to see what spreads you can come up with for the deck as the cards will interlock so nicely... Looking forward to seeing more as they appear!

Lee	13 Nov 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Pollux But I have a question for the cards' back - why those seven colours, but with the base one tatra-cromatic? How come you chose to insert the four-colous one in the bottom instead of the center? (Obviously, due to the hexagonal shape there's no real bottom, but you might get what I mean). And why THOSE four colours (black, brown, green yellow I think)? I believe this is a reference to the Qabalistic Tree of Life, which is often pictured with the bottom sphere (Malkuth, referring to the material world) as it appears on Raven's card, with four quarters in those colors. Great deck, Raven and Laurel! I look forward to seeing the rest. -- Lee

Pollux	13 Nov 2002
MH... I had not thought about that! Thanks Lee! :)

Laurel	13 Nov 2002
*gives Lee a big chocolate chip cookie* Yep, what you are seeing on the back of the cards are the lower sephiroth. I was telling Steve this morning I feel like the back design is "still missing something". This is a very Golden Dawn inspired deck, btw. We're working a lot with our perceptions of ideas mentioned in _The Qabalistic Tarot_, _The Magician's Companion_, _Modern Magick_, and Regardie's big _The Golden Dawn_. While a very "esoteric" deck, its intended to be very user friendly and a great way to learn magical symbolism and theory... sort of a beginner's guide to the secrets of the universe. LOL I'm hoping to get some web space at the Hermetic Library at Hermetic.Com and set up, among other personal things, a web page for our tarot there. Laurel

Kaz	13 Nov 2002
looking great you two !!! lining up for a copy here :-) kaz

sparrowspirit	13 Nov 2002
The two of wands is my favorite card yet. I like the motion and the color and especially the eyes. I also like the back design. Not quite reversible though? Sparrow

Ravenswing	14 Nov 2002
hi guys-- two of cup here for you. i got to play escher with this one-- he's my favorite graphic artist. and chess is a long time passion (it's been a long time since i've played :) ) but, without further adieu-- raven

AmounrA	14 Nov 2002
Hello Ravenswing, I like this card very much and notice that it does show 2 cups, did you change the plan to have one cup in each? (Escher is also my favorite graphic 'master'. The man was a genius.)

violinlily	14 Nov 2002
Ravenswing (+ Laurel): I too LOVE those cards!!! (lining up behind all the other aeclectians to buy the deck.) :D thanks for telling me what the medium is that you use. I agree w/ u, I like the feeling of handmade (or handmade- looking) cards. I won't buy a deck that's computer generated, even if it is really good (no offense if anybody's made one, it's personal preference). I have another question (tell me if I ask too many, or just don't answer): how long does it take to make one card?? put me down 4 a copy, please, violinlily :TPC

Ravenswing	14 Nov 2002
violinlily-- there's no such thing as too many questions; there's just too few answers :) . i'll give timing after all initial 'research' had been done. once a concept had gelled, there was a quick priliminary sketch-- about ten minutes to a half-hour-- just to get things in place. the good pencil layout on bristol board took anywhere from 1 to 2 1/2 hours to get it right. coloring was 2 to 4 hours, depending. now, the aces took a greater amount of time because of the hebrew lettering in the ring. on the other hand, the two of cups took about 20 minutes to put it on bristol board. and that's with the escher effects-- the card was just there. as time goes on, things should quicken up. i've never used colored pencils before (except those color-by-numbers-- LOL!!), so i'm still exploring the media. on the other hand, pencil rendering goes back a long way with me. thanks for the interest don't stop the questions and to you AmounrA-- single elemental objects on a card is another deck in the wings... raven

Ravenswing	14 Nov 2002
hi all-- i just got done playing around with the patterns for a three-care spread. 7 different ones. here's the layouts. raven

Lee	15 Nov 2002
Hey, as I was lying in bed this morning trying to get back to sleep, a question occurred to me... Is it technically possible to round six-sided corners? If not, would it present a problem if they were left sharp? If it's not possible to round them, and if sharp corners are a problem, maybe the solution would be to print them on round cards, so at least you could retain all the benefits of six-sided cards, even though you wouldn't be able to actually have the sides abut one another. -- Lee

Ravenswing	15 Nov 2002
lee-- that was one of my considerations too. i don't want to have to print these as circular. you'd lose the very ability that i based the card shape on. honeycombing is one of the basic natural structures-- strong, close-packed and economical. rounded edges wouldn't be too bad, but sharp corners are my preference. i've cut a few decks and i get a nice clean corner. (of course, worse comes to worse and there's **absolutely** no way to have anything but circular, i'll just trim mine }) ) anyhow, here's this morning's offering-- the 2 of swords. the 2 of disks is sketched and ready for color. that's this weekend's project. i've got almost the entire weekend booked up with other stuff, but i should be able to find time for color. after the 2's, laurel has decided we'll work on the empress and emperor............ have a great friday ravenswing

Ravenswing	16 Nov 2002
well guys-- here's the two of disks. next we go to the empress and emperor. don't ask me why-- laurel calls the shots on order. raven

Strange2	16 Nov 2002
Ravenswing and Laurel: Excellent work! I love the hexagonal shape of the cards, and am imagining the satisfying feel of holding/arranging 78 hexagonal cards in one's hands, with all of those angles! The energy and enthusiasm in your deck creation really shows as each new card is formed. Truly inspiring to see your creation take shape! Keep Up the Great Work!

violinlily	16 Nov 2002
hey guys, those cards are sooooooooo great, you can't even imagine!!!!!!!!! :D (drooling at the pics) I can draw, but not that well! not even close....... Are you using Prismacolor colored pencils (or something parallel)?? they have better pigments, as well as better wood, and coverage capabilities. I never could do those color by numbers!! lol! the blue was always where the yellow should go... thanks 4 all the info!!! And don't worry, I'm not going to be making my own deck for a VERY long time!! violinlily :TPC

Ravenswing	16 Nov 2002
violinlily-- you guessed it. it's prismacolor pencils. (though i have a bunch of other brands that i inherited along my way). and btw, the background red/blue on the two of disks was done on the BACK of the tracing paper. that way all the figures kept a crisp edge to them. and speaking of crisp edges, one thing i would like to find is a set of hard-lead colored pencils for sharp thin lines. anybody got any suggestions? and to you strange2-- talk about arranging. the deck'll make a great big triangle with a base of 12-- it uses ALL the cards. something i can't wait to see myself... off to the drawing board raven

Ravenswing	16 Nov 2002
hi guys-- and now for your viewing pleasure i present the empress... raven

Strange2	17 Nov 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Ravenswing talk about arranging. the deck'll make a great big triangle with a base of 12-- it uses ALL the cards. something i can't wait to see myself... Speaking of the deck arranged as a big triangle of base 12, you might be interested in The Arithmological Strcuture of Tarot site, by Alain Bougearal. Here he shows how the 78 cards of the Tarot reveal a pythagorean triangular structure with a base of 12, with the Minor Arcana as the sides, the court cards as the point of the triangle, and the Major Arcana as a virtual inner pyramid at the base. Very interesting.

JC	17 Nov 2002
What does the Hebrew on the Aces mean?

cjtarot	18 Nov 2002
JC, LoL..Raven is probably gonna make us wait to see book for all the answers.. Blessings to all.. Cj

Ravenswing	19 Nov 2002
sorry guys-- somehow i haven't been getting through properly to AE :( ... anyhow, the hebrew on the aces (plus the glyphs just inside the circle) are to be inscribed on the majickal tool. starting left of 12 o'clock and going counter-clockwise they are: 1. the god name 2. the archangel 3. the angel 4. ruler of the element 5. river out of eden 6. compass direction 7. name of the element 8. this is usually the magician's motto. instead we have used the qabalistic world of the element. i'll try to answer any questions. i'm just not going to volunteer it }) and, by the way, here's the emperor: happy tuesday under a full moon raven

Kiama	19 Nov 2002
I cannot believe how wonderful these cards are! And judging by the rate you're creating them, you'll have this deck completed in no time! This is one Golden Dawn-inspired deck I would love to own, which isn't true of nearly all the GD decks I have come across so far. I love the artwork in this deck, and the fact that the Minors are illustrated. The hexagonal shape is a truly inspired idea, and I really woudl loe to have such a deck in my collection... I can see quite a few publishing companies being interested in this deck! I really hope you manage to get it published, cuz I WANT THIS DECK!!! Keep 'em coming! Kiama

Laurel	19 Nov 2002
Oh my gosh- thank you for that Arithmological tarot link! I'd never seen it before and it delves right into some of my current big interests. A couple months, maybe six weeks ago, I got possessed by an inner daimon to look for arithmological binary patterns inside elemental kameas (magic squares) and discovered some intense ones, but was never able to finish the project b/c so much else came up. The rest of that web site looks interesting too; I wish more of it was translated into English. PS- There is a method to my madness regarding the order that we do our tarot cards.. or rather.. I ramble a bit in email and Steve picks up his pencils and preforms living magic.. I'm not allowed to tell you what that method is until we're done, however, because he loves the excitement of not knowing what's coming up. :) PPS- In very early 2003, the Tarot of 4 Worlds and my other esoteric writing (some tarot-related, some not) will be going up at The Hermetic Library!!! That's www.hermetic.com and a great site containing works of some very notable and interesting practicing magicians on a wide range of occult topics. Laurel

Ravenswing	21 Nov 2002
hi guys-- laurel has given me my next bunch-- the threes. so here's the firsr off the drawing board. happy thrusday raven

Molly	22 Nov 2002
I just had to chime in and say that the art is incredible! The images are so powerful! I really like the medium... and I really think that if major publishers are hesitant, you won't have any problem selling the deck independently. I do hope the book delves into the meanings and symbolism for the uninitiates that don't catch on *G*...

violinlily	23 Nov 2002
yo all!! I haven't been on the thread for a while..... sry.... but I just can't say how much I love those cards....... just shutting up (every time a new card comes out, jaw drops - drools- beachtowel doesn't cover it) lol :D..... shutting up....

Ravenswing	23 Nov 2002
well violinlily (and all else)-- for your viewing pleasure: the 3 of cups

RedWood	23 Nov 2002
wow...great as always!!!!!!!!!!

Kirali	23 Nov 2002
as I said in the other thread, I love it! I really can't wait for this deck to be published! Ravenswing, your artwork is amazing! Great Job Laurel and Ravenswing, I'm glad you both embarked on this endeavor! :) Keep up the inspiration!!! :)

Ravenswing	23 Nov 2002
thanks guys-- and you have to realize the energy you direct at all this becomes a part of the deck. thanks for the tremendous support. that said, here's the three of wands: raven

augursWell	23 Nov 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Ravenswing thanks guys-- and you have to realize the energy you direct at all this becomes a part of the deck. thanks for the tremendous support. BBBBBBBZZZZZZzzzzzzaaaaaaaaappppppppp!!!!! >>>> That's just some energy directed at the Tarot of the Four Worlds. :D Take a break if you need to, don't let it burn out, great work so far. :) Augur.

Ravenswing	24 Nov 2002
augur-- :D thanks for the buzzzzzzzz . i don't think i'll burn out-- i AM getting my sleep :cool: anyway, here it is: :T3P raven ps-- i get a break now until laurel lets me know where we go from here. any bets as to where??

Ravenswing	27 Nov 2002
hi guys-- well, after finishing the threes, i half expected to go on to the fours, but laurel did a quick right turn :confused: and decided the lovers was up. and so, here they are :) (or is it 'here it is'?) happy thanksgivings (almost) raven ps-- the fool's up next. and that's as far as i know. i get to do a turkey on thanksgiving :D ...

RedWood	27 Nov 2002
Wow..I really like the blankness of the 2 people! great card!

Ravenswing	28 Nov 2002
not really, but after i was finished this one, i thought of bugs bunny. this one i'm extremely proud of. it happpens sometimes. have a turkey today raven

RedWood	28 Nov 2002
wow..I really like him...specially how you did the fools hat and sword..and he is alerady going off the edge nto just waiting there..and looks pretty darn happy doing it!

Ravenswing	29 Nov 2002
hi guys-- well, laurel gave me the next bunch-- the fives. what happened to the fours, i'm not sure. perhaps she's doing prime numbers first. :D anyhow, here's the five of wands: still confused :confused: raven

RedWood	29 Nov 2002
Interesting............

Kaz	29 Nov 2002
raven and laurel, i already said it once, but i really want a copy of this deck, so get it printed !!! i mean, there are so much ****ty decks for sale, and yours is great, i cant imagine a printinghouse (not sure thats the right word) not wanting to have it. and i like the 5 wands :-) kaz

RedWood	29 Nov 2002
DITTOing Kaz a million times...yay for ravenswing doing a card a day HEHE...have it done in NO time at all!

Ravenswing	01 Dec 2002
hi guys-- here's the latest: raven

Trogon	02 Dec 2002
I like this card the best so far Ravenswing. Not that I haven't liked the others... :D, they've all been great. This card really grabbed me though. A big part of it was because when I first looked at it, I was going to post and say that you had only put 4 swords in the illustration! :| The I was laughing because I spotted the 5th one. Good job on all of these cards so far!

Ravenswing	02 Dec 2002
hi guys-- here's the five of cups... happy monday raven ps-- laurel has pointed out that we're a quarter of the way through. Oh yeah! :D pps-- and a great big thanks to kayne for the mantis :cool:

RedWood	02 Dec 2002
Ohhh I definately see the 5 cups as being one of my fave cards..i love the liquid people!

blue_fusion	02 Dec 2002
your works seem more vibrant than ever. i particularly like the colours you've been using lately. :) keep up the good work.

Ravenswing	03 Dec 2002
the final five. now i can find out where i go from here. laurel sent me directions, but i didn't want to know where i was headed til i was done where i was (if that makes sense...) anyhow... the five of disks. on to bed raven

violinlily	03 Dec 2002
this is the best card yet!! shutting up..... lol :D

RedWood	03 Dec 2002
That is a freaky card!! I Like it!

Trogon	04 Dec 2002
Bizarre, Ravenswing... But then... I like bizarre... :D Awaiting the next installment with bated breath! ;)

Macavity	04 Dec 2002
Great stuff! I will never be able to look at a pretzel in quite the same way again... :D

Laurel	04 Dec 2002
You know, now that it's been said I don't think I'll be able to look at pretzels the same way either.

Kiama	05 Dec 2002
This is when you realise that you've given half of the Aeclectic members an irrational far of pretzels! *What fun we could have in a supermarket, armed with pretzels.... })* Honestly though, I think the 5 of Disks is astounding. Keep up the good work! Kiama

Ravenswing	05 Dec 2002
sorry 'bout that guys. and i really love the great big sourdough ones.... anyhow, here's the newest-- the hierophant. now i go for the hermit... raven

Shadow Wolf	05 Dec 2002
I like them all, but I think I like your Ace of Cups the best. Beautiful design. Congratulations !!!!! Looks like it's going to be and AWESOME deck !!!

Kaz	05 Dec 2002
havent seen many hierophants better than this one, i love him :-) kaz

Ravenswing	06 Dec 2002
thank you kaz. i'm rather partial to him myself :) and now, on to the hermit. that done, i am now awaiting further directions from laurel. any one care to guess who/what's next???? in a holding pattern raven

violinlily	06 Dec 2002
One comment fits all: awesome!!!

RedWood	07 Dec 2002
Ohhhhhh love theHermit!! love it..love it!

Kirali	07 Dec 2002
oooh I love the Hermit! I love the first person view point that it has! That way you can think of the hermit more as a part of you, instead of seeing an old man/woman. I can't wait to see the Star or the Moon! :) Keep up the inspiration! (I know I've said this before but great artwork! I love it! hehe) ~Kira Can't wait for this to be published someday! :)

Ravenswing	07 Dec 2002
thanks all-- this one was a challenge for me. i didn't want some old man on a mountain that was impossible to reach. after all, the hermit is one of our own phases as we go about journeying. so at first, i decided we should look out through his/our own eyes. then i realized that i could get both viewpoints. my thanks once again to the genius of m c escher. a quick study of his spherical reflections gave me what i wanted. and there it is. we look through the hermit's eyes to the path stretching out before us; but at the same time, we look at the hermit reflected in the globe. to me this makes an important statement: we never get to directly see the hermit. and now off to the chariot!! (yes, the mistress has spoken :) ) raven

jmd	08 Dec 2002
Great hermit, Ravenswing! ... and as you mention the Chariot, the concept of your Hermit card's depiction reminds me of my very poor, in comparison, Chariot I did a year ago for the first Aeclectic project. Looking forward to future cards!

Trogon	08 Dec 2002
Ravenswing... I have to agree with everyone on The Hermit... great card. I love the idea of putting "us" in the hermit's place, where we're seeing what he sees. Now... about that Magician... I couldn't quite put my finger on it at first, but there was something that didn't quite appeal to me about it. Took me a while to figure it out though. The face of the magician has a slightly simian appearance. He looks like a chimpanzee with light skin. I'm guessing that's just an accident? Perhaps it's just my twisted perception... :D

Macavity	08 Dec 2002
I think the change of viewpoint is a great idea. I wouldn't have thought of that at all - Now here's my (untalented) concept for the Eight of Swords from the inside looking out! :D [white space?] Mac

Pollux	08 Dec 2002
I'll be honest: I don't like lovers... :( *LOL* Too Crowley like, or at least it reminds me that, and I cant stand his lovers... BUT - the other cardsare A W E S O M E and this Hermit definitely kicks asses!!! With the Aces and the Empress it is my favourite card!!! WE WANT TO SEE THIS PUBLISHED!!! :D *LOL*

Ravenswing	09 Dec 2002
hi all-- pollux-- thank's for honest :cool: . i don't know where you get the crowley-ishness :confused: ; but if you see it, it's there for you. i have a bit of trouble with the thoth deck myself... trogon-- i just gave the magician another look. perhaps i was thinking too much of the ape that sometimes accompanies the magician ?? :D but seriously, the magician was my first card-- i've learned to handle the media a lot better. anyhow, after all the cards are done, laurel and i are going to go over the deck as a whole and work on integrating the cards. there are a few things missing from the magician, so don't consider that a final. everyone else-- if something seems amiss with a card, please let me know. sometimes it's hard to stand far enough back from them for me to truely see them. that said, on to the chariot. my basic complaint with the chariot is they never seem to move. then, while going through the corrospondences i found the chariot to match up with the hebrew letter 'cheth'. now cheth means a fence or enclosure. okay then, a chariot that's fenced in doesn't move, right? wrong. a chariot that doesn't move isn't a chariot. so the challenge now was to move an immobile object. at least, that is the intent. enough rambling. here it is... looking for irresistable forces ravenswing

Ravenswing	12 Dec 2002
hi all-- me again. i just looked at some dates. the first card was posted 11/11. today is 12/12. kind of funny :) anyhow, this one took quite a bit of time, and had a few surprises for me. i didn't expect her hair to color up the way it did. but it *does* make a lot of sense. and the figure on the left... i'm not sure *where* she came from :confused: . i like her a lot :D . one thing to realize is that in the GD system, strength is sub-titled 'Daughter of the Flaming Sword' }) that was my starting point. (she is also called 'Leader of the Lion' i think most stick with that image...). anyhow, enough rambling-- on with the show: back to the treetops ravenswing

Ravenswing	16 Dec 2002
hi guys-- well here it is-- the hanged man. let me know what you think... onward to the tower raven ps-- btw- this is card number 26. i'm one-third of the way through the deck. :D

violinlily	16 Dec 2002
very..... erm.... different!! I like it though!! good job once again! 26.... 1/3.... Congratulations!

Ravenswing	19 Dec 2002
and now... yes, it's that one. the tower. the only major arcana that doesn't have a figure as a point of focus. that says something for it. what that may be, i'm not sure. anyhow, here it is: london bridge is falling down... raven ps-- it's time for directions from laurel, so where we go is also up in the air LOL!

Ravenswing	21 Dec 2002
hi all-- makes sense to me-- the star for christmas... from here we go to... i haven't heard from laurel on that one. merry yuletide raven

jema	21 Dec 2002
hi ravenswing, i do like all the new cards you are making even though i don't comment so much on them. the star caught my eye though, care to tell us a bit more about it? especially this burning question: who is the big blue mother/goddess?

Ravenswing	21 Dec 2002
jema-- like i've said before, i won't volunteer any explainations (usually), but i'll be happy to answer all questions. the book laurel and i are putting together will give details as to the cards meanings and symbology (although we will NOT give any interpretations-- that's your responsibility }) but don't hesitate to ask. the cards are based on the golden dawn's magickal system. in this system, one of the titles of the star is 'the dweller between the waters'. my previous mental picture of this was of upper and lower waters, somewhat like what is described in genesis. but as i was imaging this card, the water became similar to the male/female pillars seen in other trumps. so the waters became the aqua regions to either side of the figures. the woman is the star goddess. laurel sent me this to consider: Invocation of the Star Goddess Mother of the Sun, Whose Body is White with the Milk of the Stars, bend upon Thy servant and impart unto him Thy Secret Kiss! Enkindle within him the Holy Ecstasy Thou hast promised unto them that love Thee; the Ecstasy which redeemeth from all pain. Hast thou not proclaimed: All the sorrows are but shadows, they pass and are done, but there is that which remains? That the Universe is Pure Joy-that Thou givest unimaginable Joys on Earth--that Thou demandest naught in sacrifice? Let me then rejoice, for therein may I serve Thee most fully. Let it be Thy Joy to see my joy; even as Thou hast promised in Thy Holy Book! Now, therefore, am I Joyful in Thy Love. AUMN and so, she is pregnant with the sun (that glowy orb at the bottom) i hope this might answer your question. happy yuletide ravenswing

Ravenswing	27 Dec 2002
hi all-- well, laurel has given me the next batch-- i'm doing the fours and sixes. as to the order, i have no idea how they'll come out. but the first off the drawing board is the four of swords. i used photoshop for the first time in the deck. the beam is three layers... next up is the four of disks (i think) the going is a bit slower just from the view of placing more tools without them seemingly just placed in the image to make up the number. but i'm moving onward... raven

Ravenswing	27 Dec 2002
hi guys-- i'm going to have a limited offer here. once the deck is finished and before laurel and i go over it for finals, i'm going to burn some cd's of the originals. pre-production alpha images. i'll send out a copy to the first ten who'd like it. pm me. happy new year.... raven

temperlyne	27 Dec 2002
I love the 4 of swords! The lack of colors really gives it a special charm!

Ravenswing	28 Dec 2002
thanks temperlyne-- seems that the swords are tending towards grayscale. it's interesting how things tend to pan out unexpectedly. now the going on the cards is a bit slower-- some of these will be more intricate than the majors. so it goes. anyhow, here's the four of disks... looking toward the wands raven

Ravenswing	29 Dec 2002
and here's the four of wands happy new year (almost) raven

Kiama	29 Dec 2002
Once again, I say 'WOWOWOW!' I love the 4 of Swords... I saw that and my breath was taken away... I just sat there and said 'Awwww....' cuz the card showed such peace, such healing... Keep 'em coming! These are great! Kiama

Jewel	02 Jan 2003
The deck is progressing so wonderfully!! Have you guys received any offers from publishers yet? :) The Hermit is my favorite so far, just beautiful. And the minors are amazing I love the 5 of pentacles. Just a couple of cards I need your help to understand: The Star - could you share the ideology behind the card? I was also a little confused with the Lovers card. They are coming together and in between them is like a theatre? temple? is that a lion head (the lion from strength? I want to comment that I love that the lovers are androgynous.

Ravenswing	02 Jan 2003
jewel-- we haven't looked for publishers yet-- and none have approached us. i'd prefer to wait til the deck is finished and gone over to integrate it better, and a book explaining the cards and symbology is written. i like working without externally enforced deadlines... for an explaination of the star, read the third post on the tenth page entitled 'the star goddess' . that should answer your question. as for the lovers: look at the orange face in the center-- it is an androgynous split. left half female, right half male. (if you cover one half and look at the other, this will be more apparent) this is the orginal state of the soul. on either side is a pillar, female figure dark and to the left, male light and to the right. this represents the soul split into male/female. above the face, and splitting it in two is a sword. the hebrew letter that is associated with the lovers is zain, which means sword. above the sword is an angel which is also the face of binah. the lovers is also associated with gemini. the globe at the bottom has within it the soul reunited, marked with the symbol for gemini so the center portion depicts the 'evolution' of the soul-- from unity to duality to union... i hope that makes sense and answers your questions ravenswing

Ravenswing	02 Jan 2003
hi guys-- this one has been a dificult one for me-- four times over to get it right. i guess once for each cup... anyhow, here it is on to the sixes raven

kayne	04 Jan 2003
wowowowowow!!!!! I can't believe it has been so long since I caught up with this thread! What a brilliant team Steve and Laural make - fantastic work indeed! :D I really really really want this deck!!!

Ravenswing	04 Jan 2003
thank you kayne-- and all others unspoken. anyhow, here's the 6 of wands... swords, maybe? raven

Ravenswing	07 Jan 2003
hi guys-- six of swords... science. yeah, sure. so how's that supposed to look? take a peek on to cups raven

Jewel	08 Jan 2003
Ravenswing, thanks so much for your response to my questions. Your explanation of the Lovers card made perfect sense and I can fully appreciate the card now. The deck is looking really great! Congrats again to you and Laurel.

lupo138	10 Jan 2003
very impressive, indeed. I don´t tend to praise others, but in that case it is really earnestly earned. Your design is wonderful, full of knowledge and imagination and skill in design. I have to admit that I am not always happy with the faces of the people shown, but this is your choice. I must have a deck when it is ready - although I don´t even tend to collect decks. I think one could say without exaggeration, that this could become the Rider Waite of the 21st century :)

Ravenswing	10 Jan 2003
lupo-- well... to be compared to a standard-- i don't know what to say. i don't like all the faces either-- my lacking in rendering. but as i might have said before, none of the images are final-- yet. after the deck's finished, laurel and i are going to try to tighten it up. there's things that have been forgotten, things that have just occurred to us... later (with the six of cups) raven

Ravenswing	11 Jan 2003
hi guys-- finally got this one-- the six of cups. now on to the disks. raven

Ravenswing	16 Jan 2003
hi guys-- it's been a bit of time since i've gotten a card up. life has suddenly become fuller, more to be done. so i may be taking a tad longer then before. but the show will go on! presenting the six of disks... ***note: somehow the six of disks didn't upload. it's on the next attempt *** laurel's given me our direction-- the devil and the moon. i can't quite figure her out either. then again, men aren't supposed to be able to figure out women. (???) i like a mystery on to devilish intentions ravenswing

Insomnia Turtle	17 Jan 2003
Hello again Ravenswing. Just wanted you to know how much I am enjoying each new card of yours :). I have a question for you though. Is it just me, or is the six of disks a totally blank card? Of course, that could be the point of the card, but as I know so little on the subject of the card's typical meaning, so sorry if this is a stupid question.

Ravenswing	17 Jan 2003
hi guys-- i can't figure out why, but the last six of disks is blank. and when i tried to replace it, it insisted on staying uploaded. i'll have to think about this one. anyhow, here we go again confused beyond belief ravenswing

Insomnia Turtle	17 Jan 2003
It's beautiful! Thanks for re-attatching it Ravenswing!

Ravenswing	19 Jan 2003
well, well-- the devil. quite a complex concept as i see it. and here's the result. i'm sure there'll be some questions 'bout this one. but first, give it some time to sink in, see what you find. this card took the longest to color; most of the detail is discernable. next is the moon (and i've been sleeping under the full moonlight to ready myself...) ravenswing

violinlily	20 Jan 2003
wow, long time no talk. but - wow -. That is by far the most detailed colored pencil drawing I have EVER seen (I mean it, in my art show on sat. nothing I saw, by anyone, was that detailed). Even compared to your other cards. By right that card took a long time to color. very good!!!!

MeeWah	20 Jan 2003
Ravenswing: Though I seldom post here, I have been checking on the cards & waiting for this card. WOW!! I am amazed at the details which recognize its complexity--far more than I have seen in a Devil card previously. In fact, the details on all of the cards are what attract me. Magnificent work thus far on all the cards! Looking forward to your Moon :)

Jewel	21 Jan 2003
WOW is right! That card is amazing!!! you have captured so many aspects of the meaning of this card. Very evocative.

Dajax	23 Jan 2003
Ravenswing, I find your deck to be superb. The Devil is absolutely amazing!! Count me in as a ready-made customer! It's just awesome!!

Ravenswing	25 Jan 2003
hi all-- thanks for the thumbs up. an artist (or at least this artist) has a pretty fragile ego. such wonderful encouragement counters all the self-doubts. that said, on to the moon. this one couldn't have happened without the majick of photoshop. and as to what's next, your guess is as good as mine. i'm anxiously awaiting laurel's directions... and speaking of laurel-- please remember: i create and lay down the image, but she is the inspiration and the muse. none of the cards would be what they are without her. on to some other studies ravenswing

Melvis	25 Jan 2003
Oh, excellent Moon, Ravenswing & Laurel! Excellent everything! Following the creation of your deck is like reading a really good epic novel...each chapter holds surprises and connections that take your breath away! You two make a great team, R & L! Kisses for encouragement: :* :* :* :* :* :* :* Peace, Melvis :TSTRE

faunabay	25 Jan 2003
I knew I wanted this deck from the first couple of cards! Now though, after looking at all the new ones, all I can say is what many are saying.....WOW!!!! I want this deck!!!!! :D What an awesome job you're doing!!!!

Ravenswing	02 Feb 2003
hi everyone and thanks for the encouragement... well, laurel has revealed the next step-- we're off to the 7's. and here, without further ado, is the 7 of Wands. This is the halfway card-- 39 done, 39 to go. on to cups raven ps-- this one used the magic of photoshop-- 4 layers worth. i had always used transparencies in my paintings; with photoshop, i can get them with my pencils.

Ravenswing	02 Feb 2003
one of the difficulties of creating a tarot deck is that you're not quite in the same place at the end as when you began. and sometimes that'll show in the cards. in my case, it is especially apparent (at least to me :) ) in the technique. when i started this deck, i had never used colored pencils seriously. so looking through the cards tells the story of my artistic evolution. the difference between the last few and the first few... well, you can see for yourself. and so, once the deck is finished, laurel and i plan to have a good sit down and go over the deck. first for metaphysical integrity-- we want this deck to accurately reflect the Golden Dawn system. then, we want to examine for artistic consistancy. i'm keeping a log of what changes i wish to make in the cards, and laurel has hers (we haven't compared notes yet; that'll come at the end) it's a difficult thing for me not to go back over what's been done to 'fix' it; doing that is one of my traps. i get caught up in vicious circles, and forward progress stops. last thing we need to do is put together a book to accompany the deck. there's lots of explaining to do... but in the meantime, on with the showing raven

Ravenswing	07 Feb 2003
hi guys-- this one took a bit in figuring an image for the concept. then there was the layering. from here on i think you'll see a bit of a difference in the cards. since i found photoshop's layering, i can construct the cards more the way i paint-- layers on layers, and lots of transparencies. you can see that in the last few cards... anyhow-- for those interested, there's eight layersd in this one... this is the first card over halfway. from here on in i've done more than i have left to do... happy friday raven

Kirali	07 Feb 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Ravenswing from here on in i've done more than i have left to do... That's wonderful! I love your minor cards because I like to see if I can find the certain number of cups/wands/swords/pents. It makes me look more closely at the cards. :) Happy friday to you :)

jema	07 Feb 2003
Aha! you are so tricky steve (and laurel) i did indeed find the 7:th cup but it took me a full minut to do so. it is really exciting to be able to follow your progress like this. i wonder if anything like this has ever been made? where the potential buyers and users of the deck has been with your from card one. only one i can think of is Mary-el but here we have the added comments to and from your guys making the deck. instant feedback!

Laurel	07 Feb 2003
Jema, that's a really good question. I am willing to bet its rather unique and novel as an approach. And the funny thing is, I don't think originally Steve or I really considered making this tarot a commerical venture. I still have my reservations, but the feedback has been pretty tremendous, so there's a lot to think about. We're so weak, though. This deck is only half way done through a first draft of the cards and we're already talking about a second one. One big thing that is going to change is we need a new name. This deck doesn't fit the original vision/scheme of the Tarot of Four Worlds, and has evolved into something brilliantly different. I've been trying hard to think of a new name, and I think Steve and I are open to suggestions. ~LAS

Ravenswing	07 Feb 2003
hi all-- to jema and kirali-- I never knew I was hiding the tools. ROFLMAO!!! But I 'm glad you've found a game to play with the cards. A bit of background: A few months ago, I was musing about the RWS and Thoth decks. Both were created as the result of a male/female partnership. To me, this pairing is what helped to create balanced decks. (I even raised a related question about this...) For the longest time, I had wanted to create a deck, but I was never satisfied with my images. I figured that the problem was that I needed a female muse to direct my energies... About a week later, there was a thread asking: "if you could design any tarot deck, what would it be like?" (Thanks Chris :) ) Laurel answered the challenge, describing the two decks she wanted to produce. They both sounded like wonderful ideas. I imaged the first to be along the lines of the Thoth deck, but with illustrated pips like the RWS. A deck going back to the Golden Dawn angle for its foundation. The second sounded to be a great metaphysical and artistic challenge. Something entirely different in its basis, but consistant with the structure of Tarot and, from the sound of it, my own framework of reality. Then came the clincher. Here's Laurel's last paragraph from that post: <<< Unfortunately for me, I am a poor artist. So I'll have to hope that an amazing artist comes into my life some day and would be inspired enough to create the pictures based off my ideas. I need my own Lady Frieda Harris or Pamela Colman. >>> Sometimes the Universe is **very** explict. rather content with the outcome Ravenswing

jmd	08 Feb 2003
Given that the only other Hexagonal Tarot I am aware of had much Eastern Buddhist influence and was called the Mystical Tarot (1978 by Sara McDowell Izod - Cf Kaplan's Encyclopedia of Tarot, vol 1:173 & vol 3:381), you may wish to call this the Beehive Magical Tarot... Just a quick suggestion :) ... and by the way, again great work...

Melvis	08 Feb 2003
Steve used the word "honeycomb" early on in this thread to describe the structure that inspired the deck's shape. That might be a good word to include in the title. The Honeycomb Magical Tarot The Honeycomb Golden Dawn Tarot The Honeycomb Tarot Just another suggestion... ;) Peace, Melvis :TSTRE

Eissej	09 Feb 2003
I have no creative new name ideas to give you, just felt I ought to tell you I love the idea of a hexagonal deck! And I love the bright, strongly colored pictures too! Thank you for posting it here, it is beautiful and inspiring.

Ravenswing	16 Feb 2003
well, well... trying to find a name won't be as easy as we thought. i'd rather stick to doing images for the time being. and speaking of images, here's the 7 of swords. enjoy raven

Ravenswing	24 Feb 2003
well, this one took a bit longer than I expected... As I considered the concept, the image kept transforming. In fact, it even transmuted as I was laying on the colors... The image of the 7 is based on the equation 7 = 1 + 2 + 4. So you will find a composite of the energies of: the ace of disks (reversed), the 2 of disks and the 4 of disks (reversed). These three form the concept behind the 7 of disks. (a bit of meditation here :) ) it's getting more involved than I thought it would ravenswing

Ravenswing	02 Mar 2003
well-- a few little 'true-isms' pooped up while i was contemplating this one. 'justice is blind...' and since justice has also been titled 'truth', i thought of: 'the naked truth'. you'll see where they got me. justice is an adjustment by external forces, not too gently. the goddess unleashed. next card laurel has assigned me is 'temperence'. i see it as another adjustment, by this time by the gentle (??) god within. anyway, for your edification-- justice on to fire and rain raven

RedWood	02 Mar 2003
I was thinking I really did not like the Honeycomb tarot..It made me think of the cereal or some mamby pamby name..I looked up Honeycomb on Dictionary.com and came up with this name.. Configuration Tarot or Tarot of Configurations Read the first paragraph, that is why I thought configuration! 5 entries found for Honeycomb. hon·ey·comb ( P ) Pronunciation Key (hn-km) n. A structure of hexagonal, thin-walled cells constructed from beeswax by honeybees to hold honey and larvae. Something resembling this structure in configuration or pattern. tr.v. hon·ey·combed, hon·ey·comb·ing, hon·ey·combs To fill with holes or compartments; riddle: cliffs that were honeycombed with caves and grottoes. To form in or cover with a pattern like that of a honeycomb. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. [buy it] Honeycomb P Honeycomb: log in for this definition of Honeycomb and other entries in Merriam-Webster Medical Dictionary, available only to Dictionary.com Premium members. Source: Merriam-Webster Medical Dictionary, © 2002 Merriam-Webster, Inc. Honeycomb \Hon"ey*comb`\, n. [as. hunigcamb. see honey, and 1st comb.] 1. A mass of hexagonal waxen cells, formed by bees, and used by them to hold their honey and their eggs. 2. Any substance, as a easting of iron, a piece of worm-eaten wood, or of triple, etc., perforated with cells like a honeycomb. Honeycomb moth (Zo["o]l.), the wax moth. Honeycomb stomach. (Anat.) See Reticulum. Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc. Honeycomb n : a structure of hexagonal cells resembling the honeycomb built by bees v 1: carve a honeycomb pattern into; "The cliffs were honeycombed" 2: penetrate thoroughly and into every part; "the revolutionaries honeycombed the organization" 3: make full of cavities, like a honeycomb 4: mark with a honeycomb pattern Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University Honeycomb honeycomb: in CancerWEB's On-line Medical Dictionary Source: On-line Medical Dictionary, © 1997-98 Academic Medical Publishing & CancerWEB

Ravenswing	11 Mar 2003
well, well... i'm getting the feeling that it's time for me to take a bit of a break in the doing. temperence has gone thorugh too many attempts with nothing that i'm satisfied with... perhaps i need to balance better before being able to go on... (and there's a few pieces outside of the deck that have been clammoring for attention) this morning i drew the daily card from my tao oracle (a wonderfully beautiful rendition of the i ching by the creator of the osho zen tarot) i got 'waiting'. seems about right. so, i'm going to take five and re-group, look everything over and tighten up. see what direction things are going in... perhaps it's time to do some writing on the existing cards. there's much about them stuck in my head; it should probably be spilled out-- give me more room for other things. and the great mystery-- if this isn't the 'tarot of the four worlds', what is it??? catch ya here and there raven

Trogon	11 Mar 2003
By all means Ravenswing... you probably do need a break. You certainly have been turning out a lot of beautiful work so far. Take a moment... catch your breath... find your center... Is this long enough? Is the next card ready yet??? (Just kidding!:laugh: ) Do love all the work you've done so far. Enjoy your break....

Ravenswing	16 Mar 2003
Well-- I've regrouped a bit, backtracked on life and re-balanced. Oh yes, I've also finally given in and bought the Fey tarot. And so, by the suggestion, advice and insights of my new partner, I present Temperence: They say (I'm not at all sure who THEY are, or if it's always the same THEY that does all these things) that one can't design a tarot card without experiencing at the time of creating the image. This seems to have happened while I was doing some of the cards; it could have been my difficulty with temperence-- I desparately needed re-balancing (they even adjusted my synthroid-- absolute proof). well, enough rambling. take a look. fly well raven ps-- i have yet to hear from laurel, so i'm taking a forced break until i know which way to go......

Ravenswing	27 Mar 2003
Well-- Seems that Laurel may be taking a sabatical. So, until I get any directions from her, it appears that this deck is on hold. In the meantime, I'm finally getting to an old project of mine. If you'd like to see what's going on, check out Deck Creation > Gematric Tarot fly well Ravenswing

Icarus	02 Apr 2003
Wowzers! Ravenswing ( & Laurel) ,what a wonderful deck this is. The ace of disks is my personal favorite ! Have you any plans, perhaps sell it as a giant poster, with the cards locked together ? I could see myself lost in it for hours & hours !! I hope you re-group soon and fire on...

Cerulean	09 Aug 2003
Sixth Dimension Tarot The Crowley deck at the Fourth Dimension was fine, but lets allow for more. Cube of Space (Six sides) or plain Sixtus Temperance can be a card of strange subtleness, everything from an angel to a lead into the Star. Whatever still water runs into your inspiration, I'd be glad to see this whenever you feel done! "Fly well!" Mari Hoshizaki

The in progress: tarot of the four worlds thread was originally posted on 11 Nov 2002 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.