Lo Scarabeo decks

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 21 Nov 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

RiccardoLS	21 Nov 2002
Hello, I'm Riccardo and I work as editor in Lo Scarabeo. I have seen posts regarding the Fey, the Etruscan and the Renaissance Tarot decks on the Forum. If I can help answering questions or just discussing about any LS deck I would be happy. Regards, Riccardo

MystiqueMoonlight	21 Nov 2002
Thanks so much Riccardo. However you don't know what you got yourself into :) If you refer to the text section of this forum you will note several interview I have done with various Tarot artists. I would actually like an interview with the LS Director or Manager. Is that possible?

RiccardoLS	21 Nov 2002
> I would actually like an interview with the LS Director or > Manager. Is that possible? Because of English I think it could be difficult. But you can send me by e-mail a list of questions and I may help translate. This way it would be certainly possible. (riccardo@loscarabeo.com) Riccardo

Lee	21 Nov 2002
Hi Riccardo, welcome to Aeclectic! :) Just to let everyone know, Riccardo is also an author. He co-created the new Fey Tarot deck, and wrote the accompanying book. -- Lee

allibee	21 Nov 2002
Buongiorno Riccardo, come va? That's the extent of my Italiano, dispiace.... I think :D But isn't my new friend Pollux Italian??? I'm sure he would oblige :) Ok, Riccardo, I had wanted the Tarot of the Gnomes for a long time, and when I got it, I was really sad to see that on quite a few cards, all the artwork and meanings were completely different from ANYTHING I had ever read with, whilst the rest of the meanings were as they should be. Why was there such departure for just some of the cards please? Because I now have a lovely looking set of cards, but can never read with them :( Grazie mille ciao allibee

fairyhedgehog	21 Nov 2002
Hi Riccardo and welcome :) I haven't any questions about decks, although you may have seen a few of my posts about the Renaissance deck by the artist Trevisan. What a cool deck. But I do wonder what the work of an editor for a tarot card company entails. Is it editing Little White Books, or what? I'm going to check out the new Fey tarot now that Lee has told us of your involvement with it. I just hope it doesn't call to me too much - I'm trying to cut down on buying tarot decks :)

RiccardoLS	21 Nov 2002
> But I do wonder what the work of an editor for a tarot card > company entails. Is it editing Little White Books, or what? I just hope we don't get off topic in the Tarot Deck Forum. Anyway, even if I don't work very much with texts, but much more with images I do what any other editor does. My secondary competence is graphical and technical. In Lo Scarabeo we rarely accepts submission (sometimes it'a true pity), but we design the decks ourselves. This greater control of the Publisher allows us to create different kind of decks, but also need an Editor (it's not only a responsability of mine of course, for the good and for the bad) to watch over the creative process. I hope I have been answering with some sense. Riccardo p.s. sometimes my job also means moving huge Tarot crates in the warehouse. :) p.s. regarding the Gnomes Tarot question I will be starting a new thread, but the question will certainly took longer to answer.

finn	21 Nov 2002
hey, I bught the "sybilla oracle" 2 months ago and the illustrations are beautiful. however, there's a problem regarding the little white book. it's just a minor language problem, but it interferes with the readings. wjere it says: "...the first card in each deck (the upper one placed by the querient) represents the present...events while the lower one represents the future..." WHICH is the 'first' acrd n each deck? The one that is on top of the other card, or the one below the upper card? Thanks

Teal	21 Nov 2002
Welcome Riccardo. I love Lo Scarabeo's Tarot of the Gnomes and the one of the Fairies. I got them for my grandchildren, who enjoy them, but I do think they'd be a little hard to read with as a traditional adult tarot. Of course, I'm a beginner, so I might feel differently later one. I love the illustrations, though. I look forward to seeing you posting here.

RiccardoLS	21 Nov 2002
> WHICH is the 'first' acrd n each deck? The one that is on top of > the other card, or the one below the upper card? Thanks In the intention of the author it was the card on top. But I think that the spread would work anyway even if taking the bottom card (as long as you know from the beginning you'll be taking that card). Riccardo p.s. I would really invite any with question similar to this to write to info@loscarabeo.com I, or one of my collegue, would then answer. I'm going to mostly use my free time on the Forum, so I would not want to actually "work", answering too techincal a question :) Sorry in advance.

Liliana	21 Nov 2002
lets ask the one that everyone wants to know, what time next year is the Mermaid deck coming out :) We have seen the previews of all the amazing decks you will be releasing next year on tarotpassages, and I think most of us want them all, so I was curious if theres a release schedule yet :THP

RiccardoLS	21 Nov 2002
I just opened a new thread called Tarot of the Gnomes trying to answer question relating to that deck in particular. Riccardo

ihcoyc	21 Nov 2002
The Lo Scarabeo decks that I find most interesting are the historical reproduction decks. Are there any plans for future releases in this line? Of course there's a limit to what further can be done in this particular area. Some decks that are currently out of print that might draw some interest, though, are:    The early Tarot de Paris from the Bibliothèque Nationale    The Tarot de Besançon    A Belgian tarot;

Myrrha	21 Nov 2002
Hello Ricardo, welcome to Aeclectic! I have been wondering about something, maybe you can help me. In the little white book for the Mantegna Tarot it says that "The overall meaning of each class as well as the iconography and symbols of each card were part of a complete and thorough study by Giordano Berti published by Lo Scarobeo: Il Tarocchi del Mantegna e l'Arte della Memoria, Turin 2001. Also included in this book are explanations of certain methods for using the deck . . ." Does Lo Scarabeo have any plans to translate this study and release it in the US? I would love to read it. Mille grazie Myrrha

RiccardoLS	21 Nov 2002
Short answers :) Mermeids is due III trimester 2003 (about September), but it could be anticipated, because the deck was actually finished by the artist. Historical Tarot: LoScarabeo should publish a new historical deck every year. While most are terrible as far as sales are concerned, they are important. In 2003 it will be publeished a version of the Grand Etteilla and in 2004 probably a XV century Estensi deck (with gold foil as the Visconti). I just can't recall the name right now. English language publishing of the Mantegna Book. Who knows? We just published the Visconti book. If the sales go well enough then we will publish more books. At first glance it seem that the book is selling well, so it's a good news. The same, if the Fey book goes well, it will open doors for more books to came. Finger crossed. :) Bye, Riccardo

Cerulean	21 Nov 2002
....OHHHH, you made my heart sing.....that is... If it is the Brambilla-Brera, with the beautiful blue and gold or the one mislabelled Charles V, but actually of the Este family or Fererra origins....or the Tarocchi of Maria Matteo Boiardo with color plates that mirror the Castle Schifonia....it almost does not matter, because there are so many historical ones of Fererra...is that what you mean??? I can live to 2004... 8) Mari Hoshizaki who likes very much being one of the funny birds scuttling after morsels of tarocchi and tales from Duke Borso through Isabella D'Este....

finn	21 Nov 2002
I bought the Classical Tarot off amazon and finally got it a few days ago. I LOVE the historical art work and illustrations and such, BUT there is one problem - the box looks hideous! I recalled having seen this deck in my local New Age shop when I started tarot and I didn't buy it at the time 'coz the box looked very ugly. No offense, but I think if the box was done in a better way it would attract more people to buy. If I hadn't seen the samples online, I wouldnvere have bought it. That's just my 2 cents. :D

ihcoyc	21 Nov 2002
I'm not sure what an Estensi deck is, but it may mean an extended deck, one with more than 78 cards: like perhaps the Cary-Yale Visconti. Sign me up, then. . .

RiccardoLS	22 Nov 2002
Estensi means (sorry, it is just that I think in Italian and I give too many things for granted) means of the "d'Este" family. The Estensi were the Dukes of Ferrara. While historian seem not to be able to discern were Tarot originated they usually limit themselves to three possibilities: Milan - Bologna and Ferrara. The deck that will be printed in 2004 is the one called: "Tarot of Carl the Sixth". Originally the deck was considered the most ancient deck conserved and was thought to be originated in the court of Carl VI in France. However it was later proved that the deck was actually Italian from Ferrara, and of later period. The name however remained. Obtaining the reproduction rights for the Tarot de Paris (Jean Noblet - 1648 ca - it had been the deck the Marseille decks originated from) is almost impossible. For the Tarot of Besancon, it has long be in our wish list Publishers have a wish list, too, but they have to choose what to do as well). The fact is that Historical Tarot don't have any big market. Our intent is to try to continue publishing them, but only decks that may appeal to the more modern public. This way we hope to liven up interest into historical Tarot and open the road to more "difficult" decks like the Besancon's. Bye, Riccardo

Maan	22 Nov 2002
hello Riccardo nice to meet you.:) Always nice to meet a fellow european on the forum ;) I was wondering when will the "pagan" tarot be published? I have seen the previews on tarotpassages and i'm really looking forward to that one! Love and light Maan

Cerulean	22 Nov 2002
The D'Este deck is the one that we English-speakers sometimes think of as the tarot of King Charles the VI (I believe)---it has been mislabelled as a French tarocchi for a long, long time. I wish there was a date attributed to it, but I need to research...Lionel D'Este through Isabella spanned three generations and the links to Milan's Visconti family are at least three marriages...thanks for the heads up, as my classes and research are heading in those directions. We're returning to the Renaissance and D'Estes in two years, about the time that the new tarot is due. You made my week...%) Mari H.

jmd	22 Nov 2002
A late welcome to Aeclectic, Riccardo :) As this thread is about Lo Scarabeo decks, I thought I'd add a link to two other threads which mention LS's Burdel publication (which, unfortunately, I remain critical of, unlike your Conver). They are here and here. You mention in your above post that the Noblet Marseille 'had been the deck the Marseille decks originated from'. Though the Noblet is certainly the earliest extant Marseilles-type deck, I wonder if you may have evidence I may be lacking as to why this may be considered such (outside of the important - but insufficient - date of its production)? It is certainly sad, from my perspective, that 'historical' decks have a very small market, for as a result, we all miss out on being able to obtain their reproductions! In any case, it's wonderful to have your publishing house added to AG Müller's, Héron's and Fournier's!

DeLani	23 Nov 2002
Hello Riccardo, and welcome to Aeclectic! I have looked at many LS decks and appreciated the very high quality of artwork. However, there has always been one little reason that I haven't purchased one yet: in just about every deck I've seen, the Strength card is depicted by brute force or violence somehow, which I believe is really the opposite of what the card means. And since I am very opposed to violence, I can't read with such a deck. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels that way. Perhaps the deck designer might make the strength card differently on some decks? Other than that, they are very beautiful, artistic decks. Thank you, DeLani

Teal	23 Nov 2002
There are quite a few cards in any deck I've seen that signify violence. What about the ten of swords? And the five of wands and seven of wands, as well as the five of swords, violence is at least implied in all those. Are there decks that depict nothing that might be considered to be violence? That ten of swords sure depicts violence to me! The three of swords, too, which shows a heart with three swords poking through it seems to reflect violence too. It seems like there aren't any decks without at least some kind of violence depicted in them.

Keslynn	24 Nov 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Teal There are quite a few cards in any deck I've seen that signify violence. What about the ten of swords? And the five of wands and seven of wands, as well as the five of swords, violence is at least implied in all those. Are there decks that depict nothing that might be considered to be violence? That ten of swords sure depicts violence to me! The three of swords, too, which shows a heart with three swords poking through it seems to reflect violence too. It seems like there aren't any decks without at least some kind of violence depicted in them. I think DeLani realizes that there is violence throughout the tarot deck. Her specific complaint is about the Strength card, and I can understand what she means. The RWS is of a woman taming a lion with love and a garland of flowers. That's a far cry from a violent image, at least to me. You know how there's one card in the deck that you always look at, and if it's not done "right" it can make you not want to buy the deck? Mine is Strength and the Queen of Swords. I insist on those being right so I can kinda understand that problem. :) Kes

Teal	24 Nov 2002
Yes, I do know what you mean about taking offense to one card. For me, it's the Mother Kali card in the Haindl deck. I find that card very offensive. I didn't know it was in there when I got the deck, and of course I won't discard the whole deck because of it, but I sure don't enjoy it at all. I think it's a very repugnant card. For those who don't know, it shows Kali copulating with a dead Shiva. Rachel Pollack, in the handbook, says that Shiva willingly gave himself to her, but that doesn't make me like it any better. Wish they could have done it somewhere else. LOL

firemaiden	24 Nov 2002
Caro Riccardo, It is almost too exciting to have you on board. Here we are, or here I am, anyway, admiring these beautiful lo scarabeo decks every day, and I am just thrilled to be able to communicate with someone involved in the process.

RiccardoLS	25 Nov 2002
Assorted answers... Pagan Tarot: that deck is a problem, as it should have been completed over one year ago, and still it is going to be delayed. Last schedule places it on Late 2003. Let's hope that. Early Marseilles deck: I'm not a Tarot historian, so I may only quote sources, and I'm not sure If I'm adding anything to what you already know. The develpment of Tarot had been Italy ---> Paris ---> Marseille. The Paris Tarot decks were considered the missing link between the Italian tradition and the well documented Marseille one. Of those deck we have only three surviving, of what should have been tens or hundreads. Of those one is anonymous, and the other two were the "Noblet" and the "Vieville". The Vieville presents many elements directly linked to the Italian Tarot. It seem to have descendants as a deck with a similar iconography was created in Rouen between 1723 and 1748. The Noblet on the other side was almost "marseille" like. The final adjustement to the marseille template arrived with the deck by Francois Chosson in 1672. Actually I don't have any idea of what were the differences between the "Noblet" and the "Chosson". Maybe, if you could explain the question better I could try to find something (or ask someone, because I'm no expert at all). Violence in deck (and on the Strength card): I once had a lenghty email discussion with Lee regarding his review of the Tarot of Imagination (a deck I really love) because he felt the weight of excessive violence on some cards (notably the 4 of swords, if I remeber correctly). My answer then was that violence was a part of life and "sugaring" it was not the direction. He objected saying that Tarot could not be too violent because one will be using them everyday and shoudl not be attacked with such force. I think that it should be important to find a line between expressing violence and pain in cards, and yet not be violent ourself. Sicne my discussion with Lee, it's one of the things I try to consider when working on decks. Regarding the Strenght card, I sincerely don't know what to answer. I have never seen any patter on how the Strength card is depicted on LS decks. You won't certainly like the Etruscan (one of my favourite Strength cards, but it's really violent), but there may be others you may like. Sometimes a deck stress on a particoular expect of an Arcana, bringing it to the surface, while others drown under. You probably needas deck that stress the gentleness of Strength rather than her energy or power expects. Riccardo

jmd	25 Nov 2002
Thank-you Riccardo. Rather than making a response here, I have taken the liberty to quote your response as part of a new thread titled History of the Marseilles decks in the Historical and Iconographic Tarot section.

The Lo Scarabeo decks thread was originally posted on 21 Nov 2002 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.