tarot erotica - what's your opinion

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 04 Dec 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.

cjtarot	04 Dec 2002
Hi, Ok here we go again, a few friends and I were discussing the Tarot Erotica and I actually LOOKED at these cards the beauty of the artwork was amazing..had a few giggles too, but what do you expect from inocent old me... what is your opinion and would you ever add it to your collection, just for collection sake.. Blessings, Cj

Cenan	04 Dec 2002
Hehe i saw them on ebay though i could'nt see the pictures really. I doubt i would buy them, maybe they would be a laugh with a urm partner, cant really say though seeing as i have not seen the art work yet

Silverlotus	04 Dec 2002
My first reaction was that I wouldn't buy them. Then I looked at them more, and I do kind of like them. I'm not really keen on the suits and elements. And in a couple of the cards I saw, the women depicted a bit... badly. But over all I like the art, and think it would be an interesting deck to have. Good for readings about sex, I guess. ;)

Keslynn	04 Dec 2002
Is this the Tarot Erotica by Lori Walls? If so, then I would never buy it. I had considered it after seeing a few sample cards, but then I saw the whole deck. It's gross! Now, don't get me wrong, I'm fairly sexually open, but some of the things depicted and suggested were completely weird to me. Uck! For one, there's a card with a woman and a horse. Nothing graphic but I can't get what's going on in that card, and I don't think I want to use my imagination. :) Kes

RedWood	04 Dec 2002
some of the erotic decks i like..some i consider very vulgar..I do like Tarot of Casanova tho and would get it for collection sake if i ever had money to collect..but for now..unless itis a trade..I am stick with decks i feel i can use.

rota	04 Dec 2002
I've got no particular problem with nudity portrayed in a deck, or even eroticism. God knows I'm in favor of naked women. But if the cards' meanings aren't conveyed by the image, then I've got an argument. The Tarocco Erotico seems to be so to me. If I'm being dense, you can certainly argue with me, but I don't see a strong correlation between the pair of women arranged with the 3 pentacles in the T. Erotico, and the usual sort of 3 of Pentacles imagery. The artwork is reasonably good, I guess, but I don't see this deck being all that useful. For divination, I mean. ++++++ Or maybe I'm not 18 anymore, and should just own up to it...

Kiama	05 Dec 2002
If the Tarot Erotica is the one by Lori Wells, then... AGH! I WANT THIS DECK SO BADLY!!!!! It is top of my deck wishlist right now, but for some reason the bookstores I Have been to to try and order it, cannot find it on their database... :( I have a penchant for erotica *Kiama ducks from peopel throwing things at her* and have done ever since the age of around 12... *Kiama ducks some more* My boyfriend gave me the Manara Erotic for Christmas last year, but I was a little disappointed, because the images on hte cards didn't stick very much to the meanings of the cards,m rendering the deck virtually unreadable. The Tarot Erotica by Lori Wells however, whilst retaining lots and lots of nudity, with quite nice artwork, sticks quite well to the meanings of the cards, so this deck would not only be cool for a collection, but readble too! :D Kiama

cjtarot	05 Dec 2002
Hi all, Thanks for the input..I now have to see if I can get hubby to buy it for me..lol.. My reasons for wanting the deck is collection, I will probably try to read it, but my hopes are not high..IF he comes thru for me, I will let you know how it goes.. Blessings Cj

Alissa	05 Dec 2002
I didn't like the deck. I love an open approach to sex and sensuality, but I just didn't like the deck. And I couldn't imagine reading with it. For myself, nope. For others ... it's just too distracting when our animal natures can't stop staring at the abnormally huge PENIS in the card, or the nipples on THAT card. And OMG I had no IDEA about the "horse card." That would disturb even open-minded little ole me. I could never read the card without the image disturbing me. (But p.s. Kiama, on your erotica collection THUMBS UP, no pies to dodge from this corner).

Osher	11 Dec 2002
I wonder what one define as an erotic deck? No no, I know it means one of an overtly sexual nature. I have 3 like that: Manara, Casanova, and the GofP. The first 2 you can read with, the 3rd, well, it is different.... My axiom is: what does a deck need to be to be erotic? The Black tarot for example might be called erotic, and the Rohrig has some interesting modern images. Heck, even Old Path has full frontal female nudity!

RedWood	11 Dec 2002
I Have absolutely no use for Garden of Penises! Judgement is funny..but UGH! I like casanova..erotica...both of them...Decameron..No use for Manera..Yes most of my decks have naked women in them lol..

Khatruman	11 Dec 2002
Well, one can see erotic as openly sexual and containing nudity, but that is the easiest form of erotica. Then there is the erotica of suggestion and what is left to the imagination, which is the driving erotic engine anyway. Things blatantly course and stark to me lose erotic power, since it is too realistic to one depiction of a person rather than my inner erotic imagination. I enjoy writing erotica because words can wonderfully stimulate the mental erotic organ, the brain. I find cards erotic that abstractly refer to sensuality moreso than those that openly depict it, or if they depict it in a way that conceals key aspects (i.e. faces, insertion points, etc.) or in some way make them figures of art, or symbolic. Haven't seen enough of the Erotic Tarot, but I have nothing against erotica... kind of enjoy it actually... ;) Peace!

Jewel	11 Dec 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Khatruman Then there is the erotica of suggestion and what is left to the imagination, which is the driving erotic engine anyway. I enjoy writing erotica because words can wonderfully stimulate the mental erotic organ, the brain. I find cards erotic that abstractly refer to sensuality moreso than those that openly depict it, or if they depict it in a way that conceals key aspects (i.e. faces, insertion points, etc.). Kahtruman my sentiments exactly! I would love to have an erotic deck of this type ... a sensual deck, not just some X-Rated sex-filled deck. I have also used erotica in writting, and I do agree with you on that point as well. Does anyone know of a deck that is erotic per Khatruman's and my idea of erotic? I own none, and have only seen some cards of some of the decks mentioned here, but like a more informed opinion than the 6 cards of each deck I have seen. Also, would the Black Tarot fall into this category? P.S. Kiama no pies from this end either ...

Khatruman	11 Dec 2002
Thanks for your response, Jewel. Just another point. I was in a Fiction Writing Workshop in college and one of our exercises was to write a good sex scene. The problem with many words that refer to sex are that they are either overly crude, overly medical, or euphemistic. It's hard to make it sound sensual... but challenging :D

Laurel	11 Dec 2002
I plan to get a couple of erotic tarot decks in 2003, although they'd never leave my bedroom and be seen in public on my personage. LOL Laurel

Jewel	11 Dec 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Khatruman Thanks for your response, Jewel. Just another point. I was in a Fiction Writing Workshop in college and one of our exercises was to write a good sex scene. The problem with many words that refer to sex are that they are either overly crude, overly medical, or euphemistic. It's hard to make it sound sensual... but challenging :D I envy the experience :) ... I received many compliments on the one I wrote *LOL*. I tend to take a poetic approach to them ~giggles~. All this talk is making me want to continue working on my anthology that I will never be able to get published *LOL* (only one publisher could publish it as it is based on a world that is copywrited *LOL* ... but very fun to write about)

Demonesse	11 Dec 2002
I do think the Manara, Decameron and Casanova are nice artistically, but I view them more as novelties. Perhaps they'd be useful if you have a kinky partner *smirk* As for the Priapus, (I have heard it described as the name of a "phallic god") I can't commend the art but I find it terribly...funny.

jlbvt	14 Dec 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Demonesse I do think the Manara, Decameron and Casanova are nice artistically, but I view them more as novelties. I have been using my MANARA :eek: deck, mostly after reading this thread. :) I have been having a stressful month especially dealing with people at work. :( I have been having great success with the deck in this situation, and I think it is because although it is full of sexual images :* , it is also full of emotion. The art is top notch, and the expressions on the people are so realistic that you can almost feel emotion just looking at them. I think I will continue to use this deck (for my own readings :joke: ) whenever I am dealing with a question about emotions or people. I am really surprised at how well it reads! ;)

rainbow	15 Dec 2002
yah the artwork is beautiful....but the horse + woman card is juz too much for me =p but well...i've yet to see the whole deck to give any precise comments... (heehee i showed the images to my bf and he looked VERY interested =p)

truthsayer	16 Dec 2002
i think the cosmic tribe and the rohrig are about as close as i can handle to erotica. i like things being left to my imagination. too much too obvious too graphic on a card tends to embarrass me even if i'm by myself. to me, less is more. i believe it's the 6 of cups on the rohrig that is the most erotic tarot card i've ever seen. no fleshy graphics but not too innocent either. jewel and khatruman: imho, laurell hamilton of the anita the vampire slayer books writes the best sexual/sensual scenes i've ever read. i can read her w/o getting embarrassed but she knows how to get her point across graphically yet quite tasteful. she definitely has got an imagination that just won't quit--you just would not believe... if i was going to write erotica, i would use her writing as my guide. i really doubt i'd ever show anybody if i did and would definitely want it burned before i die! LOL yes, i am a tad prudish! ;)

Pollux	16 Dec 2002
I have nothing against erotica, but REAL erotica. This Tarot Erotica is GROSS, vulgar, so explicit that there's nothing erotic related to it. Just crass ugly pictures of vagins, hair, nipples and a collection of positions. The Knights are probably the height of coarse. Getting it for your collection might make sense - but not for other purposes in my opinion. Anyway, for anyone who's not checked all the cards from this ugly deck - try the following: http://www.theblessedbee.com/taroteroticaL.html

jlbvt	16 Dec 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Pollux This Tarot Erotica is GROSS, vulgar, so explicit that there's nothing erotic related to it. Anyway, for anyone who's not checked all the cards from this ugly deck - try the following: http://www.theblessedbee.com/taroteroticaL.html OMG! Interesting artistic style, but way too many organs. It looks like if you flip the cards fast, you could be watching a porno! And what is up with the Tower? (no pun intended) ;)

RedWood	16 Dec 2002
The Garden of Penises ..IS SO MUCH WORSE POLLUX!!

Osher	16 Dec 2002
I quite agree with Trurthsayer, that the Rohrig is one of the most erotic decks going, without being gratuitous. Some of the cards are just quite amazing. Actually, scrub that, all the cards are amazing. Now, I quite like Manara and Casanova, and can read with them. There are time when an overtly erotic deck is quite nice to read with. These two decks are well drawn, and generally have some connection to the meaning. Then there is the Garden of Penises deck.....

Jewel	16 Dec 2002
~looks at Pollux~ ... I am not even going to click on the link (and no I am not prudish). Truthsayer ... thanks for the tip on the Anita Blake books :) ... I look forward to receiving the rest of them :P ... sounds exactly like the style of erotic scenes I like. I agree about the Rhorig. I do not find the Cosmic Tribe erotic in the least. The nudity used in that deck is not meant to be sensual or sexual, and to me its not. It is simply a design element in the deck.

Pollux	16 Dec 2002
Jlbvt: do you want me to reply to that? You sure? ;) *LOL* I could also explain you using the anatomical and medical terms... Alas, I had to study it all... UGH! *LOL* RedWood: as a Gemini choices or comparisons are not my specialty. I would really have a hard time if I wanted to consider which is the worse! *ROFLOL* A big UGH to both of them. And even though I have neither (YET) I agree with Jewel about the Cosmic Tribe, and the Rohrig. It seems like such a passionate, gutty, energetic deck pervaded with sexual images and references - as others have said this is real erotic, when nothing is (too) explicit and your mind can wander free without being given clear and brazen pictures... UGH *LOL* Rohrig has a very strong sexual feel, but not in the degenerated sense of porn, rather in the dignified aspect of energies and impulses.

vijeno	17 Dec 2002
Well, it doesn't altogether seem too erotic to me. It's kinda cute, but not very erotic. Too explicit I guess. I would love to know they did the High Priestess though... And yes, I can imagine buing such a deck. I'm not so much of a deck collector, but, since for divination and ritual I only use R/W, any additional deck I buy is just-for-fun anyway. Still sometimes love to place the cards from different decks next to the R/W cards in a reading, just to get more aspects. vijeno

isabeau	17 Dec 2002
I have the Tarot Erotica deck, and I like it. The art work is genuinely beautiful and unique. Some of the cards are disturbing, but considering the subject matter, I think that is to expected. I have used the cards for readings and found the quality of the cards can hold up to readings - unlike other decks I've bought. It's definitely a thumbs up deck.

Jewel	17 Dec 2002
It all boils down to a persons definition of erotic. Personally I find sensuality and things left to my imagination erotic. Porn and overt vulgarity I do not find erotic but repulsive. Personal views on this are not right or wrong, they simply are the way they are for different poeple. This post reflects mine.

jlbvt	18 Dec 2002
Quote: Originally posted by Pollux Jlbvt: do you want me to reply to that? You sure? ;) *LOL* I could also explain you using the anatomical and medical terms... Alas, I had to study it all... UGH! *LOL* Pollux, you are nuts! ROFLMAO })

Trish	18 Dec 2002
an Erotic deck? Hm. I suppose, like some others have said, an erotic deck would be good for a sex/love-related reading. But not for just any everyday thing. As for a deck that involved some nudity and not sexuality, I would be inclined to use it more often, as there is a difference between 'artistic nudity' and 'erotica', am I right? ;)

tarotbear	20 Dec 2002
Quote: Originally posted by RedWood I Have absolutely no use for Garden of Penises! Judgement is funny..but UGH! The Garden of Penises is a gross deck. The Cups cards are goblets of a yellow fluid that is probably NOT Galliano. Most the the cards have no penises in them, but there is a lot of female nudity, and the cards are very degrading to women. Kayne probably finds the male Lovers card in the Cosmic Tribe erotic...I don't. I find the hairy Knight of Swords to be Very Hot....I know Kayne doesn't. Just because we are both gay does not mean we both resonate to the same images, and so it is with everyone. I, for one, like the males in Tavaglione's 'Tarot of the Stars', especially the Six of Wands. There is a naked man on horseback attended by six naked men holding their...wands. If you enjoy a deck...buy it. If you don't like a deck...no one is forcing you to part with your money.

Shadow Wolf	22 Dec 2002
I found this deck on this website : www.isisbooks.com . It has many other tarot decks available as well. Just in case you still haven't found it. Judging from the sample cards in this deck, it doesn't seem that bad, but I haven'tseen the whole deck. Hope this helps if you're still looking for it. I just ordered the Vision Quest deck from them. They also have a large supply of other things realated to Spirituality and Wicca.

Shadow Wolf	22 Dec 2002
My last post was for Kiama, I thought I was PMing her. Sorry for any confusion.

Osher	22 Dec 2002
Well, I have just read for the first time with my Casanova deck for both CJTarot and Shadow Wolf (see reading exchange). I really clicked with this deck. Some of the cards are easy to read, some of them have distracting (in a nice way) pictures. The drawings are quite nice, not all of whom are erotic. Funny thing is, after you have seen one naked lady or so, you just forget that they are naked, and get on with it. Casanova is quite often partly clothed, but you never see his lower region (not that I mind!).

tarotbear	23 Dec 2002
I clicked on the link for the tarot erotica - except for a couple of King cards, I found the style of the artwork annoying. I mean, all the men are the same man's body and all the women are the same woman's body; nothing varies and nothing differenciates them. Kinda boring - nothing but a boob and penis display with the same boobs and penis every time. Lo Scarabeo's "Decameron Tarot" - based around the imagery created by 'The Decameron' by Boccaccio is different. There are pretty people and ugly people in this deck (Although I notice the 'pretty people' are having the best sex.) There are women with pedulous breasts, and men with small penies (Not The Fool, tho! he's got a Schlong!) Unlike the Manara where you get a sense of domination or S & M, the people in the Decameron are enjoying having sex...although the short fool looks like he's being swamped by the corpulence of the Empress who is 'topping him off.' {I still what to know how those Knights can screw while riding a horse and not slide out of the saddle!}

cjtarot	24 Dec 2002
Hi all, I DID IT..lol...I made my choice and ordered the Decameron Tarot. I even oreder the book, it's a Oxford Classic you know... Tarotbear, "I still what to know how those Knights can screw while riding a horse and not slide out of the saddle!" If I ever get a chance to figure out how..I'll let you know..lol I'll let you all know how it is when it arrives. Blessings, Cj

RedWood	24 Dec 2002
What was it exactly..that made you choose the Decameron over all the others?? When is it supposed to arrive?

cjtarot	24 Dec 2002
Red, I looked up the deck after Tarotbears post and saw that they redid the deck in 2002 and the pix are brighter. Then I started thinking, This is a theme deck, not just erotica..SO I looked up the book. The book is a collection of stories from the past (always loved historical romance) that are sexually charged. Figured I'd give it a try..and still keep the other two, cassanova and Tarot erotica on the wish list. It should be here in about 3 days (but with the holiday. who knows)...I'll let you know what I think.. Im also gonna make sure I get the mail for a while and not my 7yr old..lol Blessings Cj PS there are actually 3 decks by the creator that are interesting. Decora and Enchanted (spelling may be off).

RedWood	24 Dec 2002
Ohhh..How cool..I love the sound of the book too!! Now it is higher on my erotic wish list lol

tarotbear	26 Dec 2002
Boccaccio's "The Decameron" is a LUSTY book that got him and the book banned by the Medieval church. Think of 'Canterbury Tales' with a lot more explicit sex. The deck intrigued me; but I ordered it in early November and got a 'back order' notice. It arrived Monday of Christmas week. I think it is quite an intersting piece of work; I do wish, though, that the LWB gave you some background into which story might be depicted in the cards; I know the one with the people in the wine barrels. Wife is boffing lover when husband returns - she tells husband man is here to purchase a large wine barrel and he has to get inside and clean it out (Damn big barrel!) While husband is inside cleaning barrel, wife sticks her head in to direct him where he has to clean, while lover stands behind her and screws her while both are standing up. As you can tell, these are very adult stories. The one with the farmer boffing his way through a convent is really funny!

cjtarot	31 Dec 2002
Hi all, The Decameron has arrived and boy is it an eyeful...bringing it to a new years eve party tonight..It may even make it out of the box.. I actually started the book last night..it's an interesting book, but not as explicit as I expected (at least the stories I have read). I find the history of the book and the way it's set up great. IF you don't like the deck but are curious..get the book... Cj Im off to figure out what material I am gonna use for a bag..has to be as interesting as the deck..

RedWood	31 Dec 2002
Now Decameron is #1 on my erotic list..and book fo course!!!

juice	31 Dec 2002
Still giggling about Pollux having to live up to his offer to describe using proper terminology in public forum. }) Are you offering a private pm service? CJtarot- Red satin is the first thing that came to mind. Then I saw a black lace outer layer. Then my imagination went too far and added black velvet fringe with red poof ball tassels. }) Now I need a look at the Decameron deck. Just to answer the origanal question, eroticism is just as valid a theme as herbs. Some themes are pulled off better than others. That is a thread in itself and somewhere else on this site. My definition of gross doesn't match up with explicitness. Niether objectification nor violence fit into erotic for me. Nudity by itself doesn't require or imply sex or even sensuality. Homosexuality and group activity isn't a taboo subject for me. I believe I'm on the verge of rambling. Erotic is a very complex subject.

tarotbear	01 Jan 2003
Quote: Originally posted by juice CJtarot- Red satin is the first thing that came to mind. Then I saw a black lace outer layer. Then my imagination went too far and added black velvet fringe with red poof ball tassels. } I'd go a step further and use a 'trolley garter' clip off an old garter belt ( the clip you attach your stockings to) as the closure for that bag! Maybe use black fishnet instead of lace.........

cjtarot	01 Jan 2003
Hi all, WOW thanks for the advise... I think Red Satin and some kind of lace with frige would be nice. If I can find the garter thingy's..that would make a great closure.. HI HO HI HO off to the store I go... Blessings,, CJ

tarotbear	01 Jan 2003
Quote: Originally posted by cjtarot If I can find the garter thingy's..that would make a great closure.. HI HO HI HO off to the store I go... If you are going to a large fabric store- in the notions section - the garters would be near the section with the bra-back extenders .. Hey! I used to work for House of Fabrics and ordered their notions!

Hummingbird	03 Jan 2003
I have seen several decks at this point with erotic images. They have ranged from beautiful and sensual to purely lustful. I saw one at Tarot Garden that seemed a bit abusive to me. Also, one listed on this site that portrayed bestiality, which is just damn wrong! I'm no prude, I watch porn and write erotica. I might buy a few of the decks, but not for reading. Too distracting!

Khatruman	04 Jan 2003
Arrrrr, this Decameron.. thinking I should get this.. might be wonderful for writing erotica... smiles

Musie	05 Jan 2003
Hi CJ, I had to check the deck out myself online and to see what all the fuss was about :) I like this deck. And I can see how this deck could be used in readings. I think it would make a good deck for personal readings dealing with your own sexuality and your personal relationships, marriage, etc. I find the artwork is tastefully done. It has a porn quality, but you know it looks like a deck the Ancient Greeks would have created. Seriously! I like the painted style instead of a photographic style for erotica. And kudos to the artist! To create a tarot deck on this subject is a bold, couragous ... she took real time to think about how facets of sexuality relate to each of the suits and majors, used lots of relating symbolism. Very Kama Sutra with a Western flavour! I do not like the horse and woman though! I'm guessing it probably means leaving the old sexual self or dissatisfaction with a current sexual relationship and moving on to explore new aspects of sexuality. This deck looks like a heavy hitter. What a great Valentine's Gift this would make ;)

Jeannette	05 Jan 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Hummingbird ...I saw one at Tarot Garden that seemed a bit abusive to me. Out of curiosity, which deck was that? -- Jeannette http://www.tarotgarden.com

Hummingbird	12 Jan 2003
I don't recall the name of it now, but a nun was jo'ing a priest, and she didn't seem happy to do so. Other images were very bondage-like, in a bad way. Its overall feel was power-over abusive.

Page	13 Jan 2003
I’ve probably tarnished my reputation already so here goes……. Hummingbird I think I might be right in saying that you are referring to The Tarocchi del Decamerone deck The Il Papa I think they both look a bit grim for what ever reason.( I’m trying to control myself from making any sick jokes here):D However I don’t find this card at all abusive and I think the word abusive is a tad too strong. I think the La Papessa is fantastic!:D .and the cat seems to be Ok in the Gli Amanti The reason why I say all this is because I’m very open minded and like this sort of art or porn/erotica …… But I am not saying that people who do not like this sort of material is narrow minded. I just take it with a pinch of salt. I wouldn't read with the deck as my mind would only be on one thing. As long as it’s not shoved down in faces that might take offence that‘s fine. + Tarot Garden does have a caution notice as it might hit a raw nerve/ unsuitable for some.I guess there is a market for this! and if you don't look for it you won't find it. Last summer I went on my own to a art exhibition on porn and I found it a bit dull. The only thing that I found strange was when I was in the book shop and some man was looking at me as if I had 3 heads because I was a woman looking a t pornographic art. I’m very tempted to do a deck like this some day.

Jeannette	13 Jan 2003
The Decameron(e) Tarot is probably an excellent candidate for a thread unto itself. There are a couple of points about it that may not be apparent to all list-members: 1) As mentioned before (if not on this thread, then certainly on others I've read here), the Decameron Tarot has its inspiration in the Italian literary classic, The Decamerone, by Giovanni Boccaccio. It's often described as an Italian Canterbury Tales -- a series of short stories that can be by turns satiric, bawdy, tragic, and wildly "anti-establishment" for their day. My copy of The Decamerone is abridged, I'm sorry to say, but I have reread it since I purchased my first copy of the tarot, and have located what I believe to be some of the correspondences between the images in the tarot (majors) and the stories. Gaudenzi (the artist) has apparently decided to remain as faithful as possible to the "feel" of Boccaccio's work. In some places, Hummingbird, the stories do depict sexually abusive situations. I do not mean to criticize your dislike of the tarot imagery -- there is nothing wrong with your statement of honest opinion. However, I think it's best to know where the source of such disturbing images lies. The artist could, perhaps, have "doctored up" the imagery so it would not be as disturbing as the imagery "painted" by Boccaccio in his stories, but that would have been a difficult "judgement call," I think. Gaudenzi probably would have been subjected to as much criticism had he "sugar coated" the images as he is for his actual blunt and faithful rendering of Boccaccio's classic. 2) Having said the above, it may be worth noting that in the 78-card edition of the Decameron Tarot (the earlier version having been a majors-only, limited edition publication; I would, in fact, tend to describe the 22-image version more as a "portfolio" than a "set of cards," because the cardstock is so very large), the imagery of the majors has been changed -- indeed "softened" (no pun intended) -- in some places. Here is one obvious example, in this case the "Justice" card (WARNING: explicit -- and quite possibly disturbing to some -- sexual imagery): http://www.tarotgarden.com/special/decameronjusticecomp.gif I do not know if Riccardo from Lo Scarabeo is following this thread, but if so, it would be interesting to hear his comments regarding the differences between the two editions. I would presume that in the case of the Justice card, Lo Scarabeo was counselled against releasing a deck (to a North American audience, in any case) depicting a graphic depiction of castration, as shown in the image on the left (portfolio edition, actual size). Other cards that were altered between the editions include: The Emperor (the portfolio edition shows a character that appears to be a very young girl/child performing oral sex on the Emperor; the card edition removes the child and replaces it with a short jester standing at the Emperor's feet), Death (completely different between the editions; I'm not sure why they made a change here, unless the original image was considered too "frightening" for some reason, or perhaps because it depicts obvious sexual penetration, which I believe is included in the definition of "pornography" in some areas of the U.S.), and The Sun (again, changed completely, from a sexual menage-a-trois in a field to a sexual encounter between two men in what appears to be a desert). So there it is -- just a little extra background, for what it's worth. -- Jeannette http://www.tarotgarden.com

Page	13 Jan 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Jeannette and/or Lori Other cards that were altered between the editions include: The Emperor (the portfolio edition shows a character that appears to be a very young girl/child performing oral sex on the Emperor; the card edition removes the child and replaces it with a short jester standing at the Emperor's feet), Death (completely different between the editions; I'm not sure why they made a change here, unless the original image was considered too "frightening" for some reason, or perhaps because it depicts obvious sexual penetration, which I believe is included in the definition of "pornography" in some areas of the U.S.), and The Sun (again, changed completely, from a sexual menage-a-trois in a field to a sexual encounter between two men in what appears to be a desert). So there it is -- just a little extra background, for what it's worth. -- Jeannette http://www.tarotgarden.com [/b] Thanks for the info Jeannette. If I saw the cards mentioned with the very young girl/child performing oral sex on the Emperor I would find that sick. This is also a good thread for the forums creative team so I will put a few questions to them.

tarotbear	13 Jan 2003
Upon viewing the 'original' Sun card -- to me it seems that the second person is NOT another male but a small child and that would probably run afoul of 'kiddie porn' laws. However, replacing this image with two naked young men - suggesting casual homosexuality - seems slightly out-of-place, too. The Decamerone was written about 1348 and although homosexuality has been with us throughout time, I don't know if a 14th century writer would have written about it. Are there any homosexual themes in The Decameron?

juice	14 Jan 2003
It looks like I will have to remember to think of the 2 editions as 2 seperate decks and not just different sizes or print runs. Child porn is becoming a REAL BIG issue here in the U.S.. It's getting almost to the point of not being able to express an opinion on the subject of the proper age of maturity without having someone jump down your throat.

Hummingbird	14 Jan 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Maud However I don’t find this card at all abusive and I think the word abusive is a tad too strong. I don't think "abusive" is a strong word to use when the power-control is so obvious in a card. Jeannette, I have emailed you several times with questions about the card credits program and have yet to receive a reply from you. I even emailed your partner with the questions, assuming you were away and therefore unable to respond.

Page	15 Jan 2003
[quote]Originally posted by Hummingbird [b]I don't think "abusive" is a strong word to use when the power-control is so obvious in a card. Hi Hummingbird, I just made my opinion like you did. There is nothing wrong or right in what we both,others said. Each to their own as they say. I agree with the above you mentioned and knowing more about the background re:this deck does help me to understand more. However I see nothing wrong with this card. I must admit when I first saw deck some time ago I thought :eek: after that it I thought it was OK. The word "abusive" for you is OK too.:P .........Of course if this happened in "real life" which it does I would find this act as someone using power-control and needs to be put down as it's very sick. I think if any artist who wants to provoke anger, shock, love....... in their work and has a response they have done a good job:D it works! It might end up as a career suicide for the artist or a known piece of work. Maud Peace :smoker:

Shade	16 Jan 2003
Tarotbear, I'm not sure if the original Decameron contained any references to homosexuality but I think that the two Homoerotic cards in the deck (the Sun and the Queen of Swords) both fit very well. A major theme in the deck was secret sexual enounters which would fit with the time period. I think both scenes also work for their cards from a tarot perspective, many other artists have placed an emphasis in male energy on the sun card. The Sun from the Renaissance tarot by Brian Williams shows two men in a semi-affectionate setting (though not explicit like the Decamerone Tarot). I think 2 homoerotic cards in deck of 78 isn't a lot to ask :)

Jeannette	17 Jan 2003
Quote: Originally posted by tarotbear Are there any homosexual themes in The Decameron? Yes, according to the following webpage: http://icg.harvard.edu/~laa14/sourcebook/mac-note.htm The following quote of relevance can be found near the end of the article: ...The sudden revelation of a husband's homosexuality in Tale 6 of Day 5 of Boccaccio' s Decameron, perhaps the most prominent of many references to homosexuality in the work, simply provides a climactic comic fillip for the tale. -- Jeannette http://www.tarotgarden.com P.S. -- Hummingbird: you should have received a reply to your messages now. Sorry for the mixup; I thought they'd come through the automated enrollment system. If you didn't receive my reply, try PM'ing me.

retrokat	20 Jan 2003
I have no problem with erotica (I even run an erotica site, shhhh....) but that deck is just plain ugly. Eg, the two of rods - Ugh! I guess it would be difficult to make an erotica-themed deck that really was genuinely usable for readings. I'm all for sexual expression - but I expect more from a tarot deck than showing just that single aspect of life, regardless of how important it is. I don't think I'll try that theme for my next deck. Happy to keep the two interests of tarot & erotica mutually exclusive... or limited to the overlapping theme of 'sensual'.

WallyTuggs	20 Jan 2003
Wow, alot of good points.

heartsdesire	24 Jan 2003
Well - the DeCameron has just arrived from Italy - and all I can say is - my goodness!!!! Although the deck is definately graphic -after a quick look I didn't see anything that I found completely offensive. I would be more curious to read the book that it is based on. Espcially in refence to some of the cards which feature a solitary figure or no one at all. But the general impression that I have gotten so far is that I can "see" the story behind the picture on the card. And - amazingly that is the first time I have ever felt that way about a deck. I actually think I will enjoy using this one(out of sight of my children, of course). However - I can also see where some people might take offense to some of the cards. the feeling they are trying to convey is not always a "loving, joyful" one. 8 of Cups comes to mind. But, in the big picture of life - let's face it, some people use sex and "love" to control another person, so I don't find these cards out of line. And so - I'm just waiting for the Tarot Erotica to arrive, although I have a feeling that the Decameron is the one I will connect better with. Julie

Shade	27 Jan 2003
retrokat, why did the 2 of rods stand out as such an awful card? I've heard folsk critique the court cards and the star and moon cards but never any of the minor arcana.

retrokat	28 Jan 2003
*shrug* Just hideously ugly IMHO. I have nothing against the phallus, but that card just looks ugh. Although of course, each to their own and I'm happy for people to say the same about my deck :P

The tarot erotica - what's your opinion thread was originally posted on 04 Dec 2002 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.