Yeats Tarot?
Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 22 Dec 2002, and now archived in the Forum Library.
| Sara |
22 Dec 2002 |
|
Does anyone know if there are any tarot decks out based on the life or works of W. B. Yeats? I've never seen one, yet with his involvement in the Golden Dawn, you'd think someone would have created one at some point. Hmmm, there's a suggestion for anyone who wants to make a deck, I guess.
|
| Khatruman |
22 Dec 2002 |
|
Originally posted by Sara
Does anyone know if there are any tarot decks out based on the life or works of W. B. Yeats? I've never seen one, yet with his involvement in the Golden Dawn, you'd think someone would have created one at some point. Hmmm, there's a suggestion for anyone who wants to make a deck, I guess.
I would wonder if he created one himself, being a requirement of a member of the Golden Dawn... and WOW would I love a Yeats tarot.. he is one of my supremo favorite poets. I would be proud to create a Yeatsian tarot; however, I think I would really have to do a lot of study of his book of philosophy, his cycles, of which I have only passing knowledge
Peace!
|
| Cerulean |
31 Jul 2003 |
|
is in pictures, 10 cards compared with his wife's Marseilles (it's hard to tell which French Marseilles it is), journal sketches from Golden Dawn members and Yeat's four tools (wand, dagger, cup and pentacle).The book is called Yeats, Tarot and the Golden Dawn by Kathleen Raines, it's her master's theis presented in 1972. My copy was from an English bookshop that sold it to me from Abebooks.com.
His personal deck is the Dotti Tarocchi, the engraved version published in 1865. Eduardo or Teodoro published versions--the one that looks like Yeat's tarot in pictures is the Dotti Tarocchi reviewed by Mark Filpas.
http://www.spiritone.com/~filipas/Masquerade/Reviews/dotti.html
http://www.trigono.com/tarots/tarocco-dotti.htm
I may have found a nice unlaminated version available through Alidastore.com and I believe Tarotgarden.com is carrying the sets. The Di Vecchi set though is identified by the author Laura Tuan--but if you look at the cards closely, you will also see the same cards posted on Mark Filpas' website in the Dotti Tarot. I also looked at Stuart Kaplan's Encyclopedia of the Tarot, Volume II, to confirm it is the Dotti tarot that supposedly comes with Laura Tuan book.
But I'll report back, as the Italian listing says Gioco Della and I may have been fooled by what looks closely to be Dotti tarocco.
Below is the listing: gioco might mean play and I do remember the Dotti was a Soprafino imitation of Della Rocca:
i Tarocchi
Designer(s), Artist(s): Gioco Della, Laura Tuan
Country of Publication: Italy
Number of Cards: 78
Publication Year: 1993, 2003
Publication Status: In Print
Description: Reproduction of a noteworthy tarot from 1845, credited to Gioco Della. The illustrations were reproduced from an original copy in the collection of il Meneghello, Milan. Packaged with an explanatory book by noted Italian tarot symbolist and historian Laura Tuan.
Tarot Garden Inventory Class: Offline inventory / email for sales information.
Hope this was of interest. I was excited when I saw the pictures and read the book.
|
| baba-prague |
31 Jul 2003 |
|
Thank-you for this information. I have the Kathleen Raines book on Yeats - but I only got it quite recently and though I thought I recognised his deck, haven't had a chance to confirm this - so all these details are just amazing and much appreciated.
Yeats is the poet I always go back to. I studied him at Uni, but of course we were told nothing about his esoteric beliefs (I was told by my tutor not to read "A Vision" - which of course meant I went and got it from the library instantly!) Looking back, and rereading the poems now, I wonder how we were expected to understand them fully without knowledge about the Golden Dawn - and tarot. Now I can see all sorts of references that I was blind to before.
Yeats is wonderful - I often think (sorry if this seems controversial, it isn't meant to be) that we should study Yeats more and Crowley less - or at least study Yeats as much as Crowley. Yeats was quieter, kinder and less "showy" (and an infinitely better poet) and he has had much less attention as a "Magus" than he deserves. By the way, his attitude to women also appeals to me - he took women seriously (though perhaps with all the prejudices of the time). Every time I see the RWS Six of Swords I think of Yeats and Maud Gonne.
Okay - rambling - I could talk about this subject for ages :-)
|
| darwinia |
31 Jul 2003 |
|
Van Morrison has a wonderful song (can't remember the title) where he says "Rave on Mr. Yeats" and I always think of the poet with that one line. Kind of your classic misunderstood writer because few really bothered to understand the symbolism, they just said "This guy's a nut!" Very similar to William Blake.
I have observed many teachers (with apologies to Khat who seems to have broken from this mold), who don't care if you understand the deeper meanings of poets, they have their own spin on poetry and as long as you assimilate and reiterate that, you're an "A" student.
Speaking of raving.
|
| Cerulean |
31 Jul 2003 |
|
which suggests Yeats was following ideas that knew of Blake's mystical engravings. Blake never went to Italy or other areas, although his art seemed to pull from such sources--he seems worthy of study in himself. Going backwards, I could see following Yeats to Blake back to Dante (through the filters of pre-Raphaelites?)
Anyway, I'm rambling in hopes that 14th and 15th century Italian poets can eventually lead forward to Yeats, however misty and romantic the filters become...did the ferryman of the Styx became a six of swords gondelier?
Cheers,
Mari H.
|
| full deck |
31 Jul 2003 |
|
I would love to see a Yeats Tarot. I had been thinking about him Yesterday as well. The man had a formidable mind indeed!
I surprised a college professor once by pointing out that Yeats had to be a Kabbalist of sorts. She wanted to know how I knew about his interests, especially since I had not read any books about Yeats. (Hehe) It's in the poems.
|
| baba-prague |
31 Jul 2003 |
|
Oh - please look at this thread. A lecture by Tom Paulin (Irish poet) on "William Blake, Irish Visionary: His Influence on Yeats, Joyce and Van Morrison,"
http://www.nd.edu/~observer/11222002/News/5.html
Fabulous stuff!
ps okay, this is offthread in a way, but you know the Van Morrison line about "The white house on the hill"? Where I was brought up in Belfast we could see that house - the only one that remotely fits the description (Van himself grew up in my part of the city) and I used to wonder about it as a child. It was such a surprise to realise when I heard the song that someone else had also looked and wondered... some things just ARE very symbolic.
|
| Moongold |
31 Jul 2003 |
|
Yeats is a favorite poet of mine as well. I had no idea of his membership of the Golden Dawn.
You guys have just opened up a whole new year's worth of reading for me.
Please keep this thread going. :)
|
| full deck |
31 Jul 2003 |
|
I often wondered why the man was such a sucker for Maude Gonne. She, apparently, was a member of the Golden Dawn as well. I know very little of her other than her bent-for-hell, charismatic personality (maybe a super-freak even) -- and Yeats had such a strong personality that he would have suffered very little advice about such anyway.
|
| baba-prague |
01 Aug 2003 |
|
Hi,
I expect this is well known to most of you, but I thought I'd add it to this thread for people who are new to the connections between Yeats and the Golden Dawn.
The advisor that Waites refers to in Pictorial Key (I'll find the exact quote later but there are references to a more experienced person who advised on the symbols and meanings of the RWS cards) is believed to be Yeats. Also, it is believed to be Yeats who designed the Celtic Cross spread ( my normal reading spread - and that of many others I think).
You see what I mean? Why do we spend so little time studying Yeats when he was in fact so central - and so very interesting.
|
| Khatruman |
01 Aug 2003 |
|
Originally posted by baba-prague
Yeats is the poet I always go back to. I studied him at Uni, but of course we were told nothing about his esoteric beliefs (I was told by my tutor not to read "A Vision" - which of course meant I went and got it from the library instantly!) Looking back, and rereading the poems now, I wonder how we were expected to understand them fully without knowledge about the Golden Dawn - and tarot. Now I can see all sorts of references that I was blind to before. I was fortunate in college to take a Yeats/Eliot course during my senior year, and to have a professor who felt it necessary to give us at least a passing knowledge of Yeats' mythology, his cycles of history, and A Vision. Not that I have enough knowledge to understand this, but I do agree it is crucial in understanding some of his poetry.
I have, also, a wonderful article he wrote on Irish fae folk. I wonder, along with a Yeatsian tarot, whether it might be cool to create a Yeats Faery deck :D
The Yeats/Blake connection looks fascinating, Mari!!! Thank you for that. I downloaded the article and plan to read it. Just skimming I see something about Van Morrison doing an album of songs with Yeats lyrics... Arrggghhh, if they would only release that!!!
Anyway, thanks for this info.
From a teacher who seeks to open understanding.
|
| Cerulean |
01 Aug 2003 |
|
The gentleman-author Paul Hughes-Barlow has a great website on Golden Dawn history suggestions and some Papus information, among other things. He recommends another book besides Kathleen Raines:
http://www.supertarot.co.uk/Resource/resource.htm
http://www.supertarot.co.uk/paul/reading.htm
So those of you wondering about more Yeats information, such as I am, here are people who have studies this at least in terms of tarot connections.
As wonderful as the suggested studies of Yeats and the Maud Gunne/Gonne have been, I'm following up from the fun and narrow perspective of why the Dotti tarocco? Did Yeats just happen to pick something different from his friends, or did the colors and pictures strike him with a familar, mysterious delight?
Initially when I read Mark Filpas review of the Dotti and Di Gumppenberg, I thought the Le Stelle card on the Dotti version was softer and could inspire poetic ideas...but historically, the variations of the Di Gumppenberg spanned more of a range and they were more important.
When I hopefully obtain a Dotti version this weekend (waiting mail arrival) or next week, I am hoping the engravings are even more beautiful and I have a personal deck that touches some of my favorite things...a poet's preference, lovely engravings and a slight historical touch between old Italian ideas and the romantic turn of the previous century...with maybe I'll find some Irish lace to wrap it in.
Cheers,
Mari H.
|
| Cerulean |
02 Aug 2003 |
|
www.dolmetsch.com/024_Schuchard.pdf
One of the most public recorded instances of Ellen Terry, Francis Farr, Yeats, Waite and others (I think Maud Gonne) working together was the play called Countess Kathleen in 1899. Yeat's father wrote to Yeats that he was pleased to be meeting Pamela Colman Smith and see her lovely illustrations---this was supposed to be the set designs for this play. The play was supposed to be in favor of Irish Home Rule, something very deeply believed in among the Yeats circles of influence.
The link above is a pdf file essay and the citations to the Yeat's father letter. Pamela Colman Smith is only mentioned in those two sentences above.
I only hope the background gives an interesting tidbit on how early the people might have known about one another--that would be 1899, ten years prior to the publication of the 1909 Rider & Sons Rider-Waite Smith.
If the information is correct, the Rider Pack might be after Pamela Colman Smith tried to publish her magazines (Broad Sheet and Green Sheaf) and after her contact with Alfred Stiglitz and the Gallery 291 sold about 30 of her drawings...as you can see, I'm still delightly reseaching Ms. Smith.
There's a scholar by the last name of Parsons who will also be publishing a book on Pamela Colman Smith that I would love to see before the 100th anniversary of the Rider Pack...
I posted this information to the RWS threads separately, but the previous links have 'shifted'. This new link has similar information and still is active.
Mari H.
P.S. Wouldn't it be fun to compare and see if there were similarities in the Dotti tarot that Yeats carried around to the Rider Waite Smith?
|
| Cerulean |
08 Aug 2003 |
|
Unfortunately, the Rider Waite Smith came to mind rather than my Dotti-ness...but here goes--a poem by Yeats and some rough equivalents to the major archana.
The Cap and Bells
The jester walked in the garden: (Fool)
The garden had fallen still;
He bad his soul rise upward
and stand at her window sill (Magician invoking spirit)
It rose in a straight blue garment (Papessa - spiritual)
When owls began to call: (Emporer - rules, demand)
It had grown wise-tongued by thinking (Pope - wisdom)
of a quiet and light footfall;
But the young queen would not listen
She rose in her pale night-gown (Empress-fertility)
She drew in the heavy casement
And pulled the latches down (Justice/Strength - weight/force)
He had his heart to go to her (Chariot - movement)
When the owls called no more; (Hermit - isolation)
In a red and quivering garment
It sang to her through the door. (Lovers - longing/completion)
It had grown sweet-tongued by dreaming (Angel/Temperance)
Of a flutter of flower-like hair;
But she took up her fan from the table
And waved it off to air (Wheel of Fortune - change)
'I have cap and bells,' he pondered (Devil - material goods)
"I will send them to her and die (Death - transformation)
And when the morning whitened
He left them where she went by (Hanged Man-sacrifice)
She laid them upon her bosom
Under a cloud of her hair
And her red lips sang them a love-song
Till stars grew out of air (Star - Hope)
She opened her door and her window
And the heart and soul came through,
To her right hand came the red one (Sun-Glory/Day)
To her left hand came the blue. (Moon-Imagination/Night)
They set up a noise like crickets
A chattering wise and sweet (Judgment Day--Resurrection)
And her hair was a folded flower
And the quiet of love in her feet (World-Culmination/Fulfillment)
Happy Yeats!
Mari H.
|
The Yeats Tarot? thread was originally posted on 22 Dec 2002 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.
|
