Dürer anyone?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 15 Jan 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

firemaiden	15 Jan 2003
HI! I got the new Dürer (lo Scarabeo 78 card, colored version -- Gaudenzi) along with my Fey deck. I haven't seen anyone screaming up and down and going bananas over this deck, as we have over the Fey, but I quite like it. I love the use of animals in the suits, especially the doves for cups , and I like how the animals/suits coordinate into a possible story: e.g. in the 2 of swords; a wary fox is sneaking a peek over a wicker wall to espy a suspicious hen and her recently laid egg --> in the 3 of swords, the same fox, evading a man in mourning, has an expression of fear and horror as he sees three swords staked in the ground before him. Red berries shine like blood in the grass. The 7 of swords is an all out fox hunt, the sky is the orange of war. And in the 8 of swords, the fox has been killed- pierced through with the 8 swords. Some cool cards: The Queen of Pentacles looks like she was in the midst of a bawdy encounter, which was interrupted to paint the card. the 4 of pentacles: a man climbing up a crest comes upon an eagles nest with four coins instead of eggs. 8 of cups: a dove shivering in a downpour over a rising stream, where a party of cups is being upset and washed away downstream. I don't get that the writer of the LBW necessarily saw the cards. I found terribly jarring to see the graphic 10 of Swords picture (a dead man lying face-up, transperced in five bleeding places by 5 swords, and hemmed in on all sides by the remaining 5) and then to read the all light and chuckes interpretation in the LWB. "Upper hand over every obstacle, improved life, positive forces and vibrations" . It seems that the writer of the LWB was not on speaking terms with the artist.

Cerulean	15 Jan 2003
The little white book has sayings and the cards have the mottos as well. Can you tell if the cards mottos are in Latin or Italian? I'm more puzzled by the cards. I am not happy with the Fool. But you are right about the animals and colors being quite interesting. I'm certain if you are a Durer fan, there will be many things to study in this deck. Best wishes, Mari H.

firemaiden	15 Jan 2003
The card sayings are definitely in Latin. I like the fool, but I notice between the italian word "matto" and the english "fool" there is a chasm of difference. Matto really means someone who is crazy, not foolish. And I find the italian cards reflect that meaning rather than the english word. Tell me more of your thoughts on the cards. I am just starting to study these, I can see that it will take a long time to plumb their depths.

truthsayer	15 Jan 2003
i've been thinking about getting the durer. there was an article in a recent watercolor magazine about him which has deepened my interests. he isn't as famous for his watercolors b/c he had to do oils for wealthy clients in order to live. watercolors didn't make nearly as much money. do you know if the images used are from his watercolors, oils or both? just curious.

firemaiden	15 Jan 2003
Engravings. Giacinto Gaudenzi's illustrations were done in the style of Dürer's engravings. See on the Aeclectic decks site, the first "arte" deck of 22 majors was mostly black and white. This 78 card deck is in color, but these cards are basically black and white engraving-style illustrations that have been "colorized", yes, probably with water colors.

Ophiel	15 Jan 2003
I might have been doing that (screaming up and down and going bananas) about the Durer, except I don't see it on their website (Lo Scarabeo.) If I yell, scream up and down about something I don't know about, "they" will lock me up!

SherryZoned	15 Jan 2003
There is a book about the Durer deck coming out in March!!

Cerulean	16 Jan 2003
Wonderful..is it listed online anywhere? Sometimes Amazon.com will list a tarot deck as a book title... Mari H.

SherryZoned	16 Jan 2003
I thought I saw the book..but of course now i cant locate it!!

firemaiden	16 Jan 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Ophiel I might have been doing that (screaming up and down and going bananas) about the Durer, except I don't see it on their website (Lo Scarabeo.) If I yell, scream up and down about something I don't know about, "they" will lock me up! well, I learned about it from The Tarot Garden dangerous site, that.

Ophiel	17 Jan 2003
Ah...I see...the Tarot Garden. I like to special order them through my local bookstores. The trade off of tax vs. shipping charges is much in my favor. Perhaps one of these days, Lo Scarabeo will update their website! [hint...hint...]

ihcoyc	17 Jan 2003
Ooonh, oonh, do all the cards have mottoes in Latin? If so, then I suppose this is yet another deck I won't be able to live without.

firemaiden	17 Jan 2003
yeeeeeeeeeess, all mottos in Latin. Ophiel, you can still order it from your local bookstore. I ordered mine from Alida, it doesn't prevent me from salivating over Scarabeo's upcoming releases on Tarot Garden. Tarot Garden is THE place to browse and foam at the mouth since the Scarabaeo website is now WAY OUT OF DATE and doesn't even list their own recent releases ....

Cerulean	20 Jan 2003
I believe Alidastore.com and Tarotgarden.com can get you the sepia on cream version. I don't know why it is listed as black on white because the monochromatic copy that I have is sepia on cream textured stock. The booklet is in Italian. In this related art site to Lo Scarabeo, some English explanation and better pictures of the early 22 major version, which differs slightly in major archana design: http://www.wonderful-tarot.com/english/durer.htm Gaudanzi's work is wonderful in either the drawing or painted version with the colors. Something odd for me is preference. I thought that the colored version would be a quick favorite. But I keep turning back to the early version and don't know what to make of the colored version now. I think my expectations were very odd. Of all the wonderful Renaissance painters and engravers, I had chosen Jacob Pontarmo as a favorite, being a student of Da Vinci, influenced in softness and rich coloring by Raphael and Michelagelo---these artists thought Pontarmo was a promising student. However in later years, Pontarmo looked to Durer and was considered a truly odd duck. Even if the returning Medicis some years before in 1529 had laid siege to the city and made an outlaw of his teacher, Michaelangelo, they patronized Pontarmo and Pontarmo's student, Bronzini. Perhaps the Leonardo tarot that is forthcoming will be more my style?

firemaiden	20 Jan 2003
Wow, that's amazing, the sepia prints are completely different drawings. I find they have less of Gaudenzi and more of Dürer. I find the color version softer, more human, less static, with more character in the faces, but the Sepia version more mysterious, more melancholic, and perhaps for that, more powerfully suggestive.. Look at the Gli Amanti card, whereas the Sepia version has the Satyr facing away from us, looking at his lover, in the 78 color version the satyr faces the viewer, showing off his erection, and instead of a fat cat, there are two doves. Thanks for posting this Mari. Tell me, how do you feel about the 10 of swords in the new color deck. Do you think you will read with this deck? or is it rather part of an art collection for you?

Shade	24 Jan 2003
So I'm lovin what I've seen of this deck and while I have no need of ANOTHER deck right now I'm probably going for it (teh 78 cards version). I've heard what everyone likes about the deck and it's looking good but are there any complaints out there? Anything that stuck in your craw with this one? Any little factor taht will keep it from being a high rotation reading deck?

firemaiden	24 Jan 2003
HI JohnnyVoodoo, to be honest, I am not a reader, yet, really just learning the cards. So I can't tell you, but I am a little disturbed by the repeating motto of wands/swords stuck into flesh. love Firemaiden

divinerguy	24 Jan 2003
Durer was the Stephen King of his day. He had a sense of the macabre that was relatively unique for his day. He gave physical form to scripture and legend. Too bad he didn't work outside the monochrome ink medium. He would've been an awesome painter if his ideas had made it to canvas rather than paper.

Ophiel	24 Jan 2003
Quote: Firemaiden wrote: "but I am a little disturbed by the repeating motto of wands/swords stuck into flesh." Hmmm...was Durer influenced by Bosch? Actually, I'm not sure which came first. Maybe they hung out together at the local S&M clubs together? Isn't that about the time the Inquisition was fine-tuning its own art of persuasion? It is an interesting looking deck for sure. I have Bosch and Dante...hmmm...I wonder if I should....

Cerulean	24 Jan 2003
online. For engraving, usually someone specialized in tinting or coloring...but I've seen beautiful art books with painted Durers. Durer's work was for an emporer, (I believe) might have been the Holy Roman Emporer, so his work was very influential. The "Mannerist" school is applied to one artist influenced by his work, Pontarmo. My attitude toward the painted Durer deck is perhaps a personal silliness. I could use it and I admire the paintings. But Scapini and Folchi have also created a few theme decks that might be considered artistic, but not too bawdy. In my humble opinion, the masterly Gaudanzi paints for adult audiences and his humor might be bawdy. That's not a bad thing, Gaudanzi lives in a different world. If you have the deck and like the painted version of the Fool and it works for your circle of people, then that's great. Some people like myself usually prefer pants that cover the rear view. But your experience is very different from mine. My life drawing/painting studies are not shown to everyone, nor or all my collected art tarots. There are some decks or art that makes certain people want to discuss or involve the artist or reader in their very personal interests. The appreciation of recognizing and painting human forms as beautiful or humerous as a superficial conversation topic might be interesting for a few minutes. In my case, I appreciate this in the Durer deck. My 'but' does not apply to forum conversations...it's a bit of a warning about art decks or life drawing art. In some instances, people might want to go on and tell the reader/art student about wearing fluffy bunny suits and singing latin mottos---or how these paintings reminds them in detail of permissive lifestyles of a bygone era. Sorry if this too long...but that is my take on the painted Durer tarot.

ihcoyc	24 Jan 2003
Dürer did both paintings and engravings. There's a fair selection of them to look at at the Artchive.

Cerulean	24 Jan 2003
http://www.boglewood.com/cornaro/xdurer.html These look like the ones that I remember in class. Ihcoyc, I am delighted by your tagline. That would be a great story beginning.

Hummingbird	24 Jan 2003
Mine is on order. Should be receiving it next week.

firemaiden	02 Feb 2003
Hummingbird, (I love that name...I hope you hum a lot), please let me know when your deck arrives how you like it, and share any thoughts you have. I will be very interested in your take on it.

firemaiden	02 Feb 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Mari_Hoshizaki Some people like myself usually prefer pants that cover the rear view. That is a very cute way of saying it Mari...I happen to like the Fool card, because there are so many pictures of the Fool where the little doggie is trying to pull his pants down, but this is the first time he truly succeeded...hahahah -- or rather, the first time we get to truly see the result...:D

firemaiden	02 Feb 2003
Quote: Originally posted by ihcoyc Ooonh, oonh, do all the cards have mottoes in Latin? If so, then I suppose this is yet another deck I won't be able to live without. What happened ihcoyc?? DID YOU CHICKEN OUT??? })

ihcoyc	02 Feb 2003
I've got it down on my list; when I have enough things I want to get free shipping, the order goes.

firemaiden	02 Feb 2003
Okay, so get the secret tarots too. :D

SherryZoned	11 Mar 2003
I got it ..I GOT IT....I love it...So far i am clicking very well with this deck...WOOOHOOO...The fool...LOL great fool....The 9 of swords..really nails it also...great deck!

firemaiden	11 Mar 2003
I am so excited, Redwood that you got the deck too. Yeah, I think the fool is fabulous. Please, share more!

SherryZoned	11 Mar 2003
Share more...AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh... I like the colors...laid back but not pale....I used the durer for DarkElectrics reading...I think it went very well.... I remember someone saying that the 3 of cups is a party card...Well in darkelectrics reading..it wasnt quite a party card..I was jjust able to read the card....read the spread as a story..(maybe a bit drama on my part) i am going to be using this deck for further readings..see what other neat stuff pops up...did i mention the 2 of wands i my fave card...Love the hedgehog hangin out on top of the wand...Like how the heck did it get up there??? Suddenly it can fly????

firemaiden	11 Mar 2003
Quote: Originally posted by RedWood Love the hedgehog hangin out on top of the wand...Like how the heck did it get up there??? Suddenly it can fly???? Redwood, I hope you don't mind if I quote you one day. This is just about one of the funniest sentences I have ever read!

HOLMES	19 May 2003
i must say.. IT IS DAMN NICE went up to number one on my tarot list :O)

MercyMe	24 Jun 2005
Just got this deck in the mail yesterday and I am ADORING it. I do want to know why the Queen of Pentacles is sticking her tongue out, though. She cracks me up. She's holding a coin with her image on it and maybe she's saying, "I don't like this picture of me!" LOL! I think her uncovered breasts represent nurturing but also her earthy sensuality. And I totally agree with the ridiculous meanings in the LWB, some of them. I'm sure that dead man on the 10 of swords "overcame every obstacle" -- well, I suppose he did, even breathing. ;) I like the mottos on the Majors very much and the LWB meanings for the Majors are pretty good. But the Minors LWB meanings...um, like firemaiden said (years ago now, heh, heh), "don't think the artist and the writer were on speaking terms." Digging this deck...having trouble with some of the lion skins, though, like the eight and three of wands. I don't know...some of the images aren't making sense to me just yet. Often with me, though, until I use the cards in an actual reading for someone, the meanings elude me then suddenly in a flash of intuitive insight I GET IT. :) ~Mercy

The Dürer anyone? thread was originally posted on 15 Jan 2003 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.