Tarot of the Master and Historical Decks

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 15 Feb 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Kiama	15 Feb 2003
Hi All! I accidentally bought the Tarot of the Master today, and the Mantegna Tarot yesterday, and have found them to be absolutely wonderful! Not too long ago I accidentally bought the Minchiate Etruria aswell, and thse two decks are like this one: Great, but not for reading with. The Mantegna Tarot is a set of 50 Triumphs, with 10 being human 'conditions' or 'ranks', the lowest being the Wretch, and highest being High Priest. The next 10 are the 9 Muses and Apollo, the 10 after that are sciences such as Arithmacy, Astrology, Philosophy, Poetry, etc. After that come human 'bits' such as Intellect, Vital Functions, Senses, and finally we get the celestial bodies: Planets minus Uranus, Neptune and Pluto (This is a 15th century deck, and they had no idea of these three planets) plus Upper Heavens, Celestial Power, and Divine Cause. The artwork is stunning, and an excellent example of Renaissance art. The Tarot of the Master is shocking, not due to it's content, but due to the fact that it seems the Rider Waite was NOT the first deck to use illustrated Minors... This deck does, and quite a few of the cards seem to actually relate to the modern day interpretations. For instance, the 9 of Swords shows 9 swords piercing a heart which is lying on the ground. I am absolutely chuffed with these two decks, and can't wait to write reviews of them, and I would highly recommend them to anyone looking for some unusual historical decks. I do have a question now though... I want to expand my historical deck collection, and would like some recommendations as to which ones to get! I have Ancient Minchiate Etruria, Tarot of the Master, Marseilles, IJJ Swiss, Visconti Sforza, Mantegna... Kiama

ihcoyc	15 Feb 2003
I would recommend the Ancient Italian Tarot and the Ancient Tarots of Lombardy. Both of these are easily had Lo Scarabeo reprints, and between the two of them they are the decks I currently use most often. Ancient Italian Tarot is Carlo Della Rocca's take on the Tarot of Marseilles. It is largely consistent with the Marseilles in the posing and positioning of the elements and court cards, and contains some interesting but minor variants in the majors. Lombardy is more widely divergent, and has Spanish-style pips with discrete clubs and swords. Both decks are quite attractive engraved rather than woodcut decks. If you find the Paris Tarot from the Bibliothèque Nationale, grab it and ask questions later. I think it's out of print, though. I also have the Tarot of the Master. It makes me wonder whether it was "meant" for divination or for game play. . . .

Macavity	15 Feb 2003
Nice thread. What do they say about great minds? :D I have been trying to collect either "representative" or historic decks - which has the nice function of limiting things to a reasonable (ish) budget? To your list, I would add an Etteilla and (seperately) a "true" Egyptian deck - Falconnier and Wegener type. Take your pick from: http://www.spiritone.com/~filipas/Masquerade/Reviews/historye.html Then there's the (rather hideous!) Sola Busca ;) followed by a whole gamut of Italian decks. For these latter I started with LoS "Classical Tarot" as a kind of "prettified" generic Soprafino type? I may add more sub categories later. Fwiw, I quite like some of the LoS "mignon" (miniature, major only) decks - Once ya seen one lot of pips etc? :) I can't claim to really NEED a full "working" deck for each... Most of my historical selection method comes from piecing togeather bits from the history pages of www.tarothermit.com Thank you for bringing the "Master" to our attention. I must investigate further... Have Fun, Macavity

jmd	15 Feb 2003
I too agree with all of the above recommendations - it seems that one which is also quite important, and of the same vintage as the Falconnier, is the Wirth deck (I still consider this one the main 'bridge' between the Marseilles and the Waite/Colman-Smith, with the Sola Busca as its assistant non-Tarot 'bridge').

Cerulean	17 Feb 2003
have this divergent feel circa 1920. Wirth really only focused his meditations on the majors---there are some indications Knapp (or Hall) did most of their meditations on the majors as well. There's sort of an inner temple initiation/mediational feel about the small samplings of the writings that I've looked at--mainly things that accompany the deck or the small reads in bookstores. For some reason, I liked the images and historical links enough to get the Oswald Wirth and Knapp-Hall Tarot, but they are most interesting to me in the majors. I don't need the Sola Busca because I have some other Italian decks- the Master one out of Turin---and the Caligstro, circa 1912, which is fine for me. The Caligstro is interesting to me for the astrological booklet and the ideas that I'm thinking about from historical astrology. Wicce.com has a review (it's back up). The Knapp Hall minors might remind you of Spanish pips or earlier esoteric decks---Ettella III or Lo Scarabeo's Ancient Esoteric Italian (Etteilla) deck in the old pink box or new brownish-green box. If you want a prettier Etteilla deck, Lo Scarabeo will publish a pretty Book of Thoth Etteilla III pattern, later in 2003. Mark Filpas Pasteboard Masquerade has some samples or you can check out Jeu Des Dames on www.wicce.com. History of the Occult Tarot has more information on the above by Ronald Decker as well as Dummat---and another strong historian (James Revak Villa Revak) has more Etteilla information as well. So hopefully these rambles might give you a few suggestions of collecting points.

Macavity	17 Feb 2003
Thanks Mari - as ever informative. I must admit to being prompted to look at the Etteilla again by this thread! I eventually sent off for the fairly pretty "Etteilla I" (Grimaud) deck and any news re. such matters is very welcome... as are your thoughts on the Italian (etc.) decks generally. As an aside: Apart from (overtly) "historic" decks, I have been pondering representative occult ones as, at least, PART of history :) In those, aside from the obvious, I think mostly of the Cicero's Golden Dawn deck but more particularly the "Hermetic Tarot" by Godfrey Dawson. This latter's only "limitation" is, I suppose, the monochrome line images. I'm sure it might have rivalled some more popular GD decks had it been colour? The others are not (imo) a particularly inspiring bunch? :) Hmmm So I'd (eventually!) like a hermetic tarot... doubtless out of print at the moment. Macavity

Phoenix	17 Feb 2003
Hiya Kiama! I am so jealous! Oh well. I am getting the Mantegna soon, so I don't feel too bad. Which version of the Marseille deck do you have? I currently have the Grimaude, but will soon be getting the Camoin version. I also have the Visconti Gold Tarots, and in my opinion, that is one to have in your collection as well. I think that any of the Lo Scarabeo historical decks would be neat to have. I really want their Classical Tarot, Tarot of the Master, and Sola Busca(AKA Ancient Enlightened Tarot). Well, good luck on making your acquisitions })

ihcoyc	18 Feb 2003
I've seen both the Classical Tarots and the Ancient Italian Tarot. These two decks are essentially identical. Of the two, I'd recommend the Ancient Italian; I'm not sure I'm fond of the colouring on the Classical Tarots, and the card faces on the Classical Tarots are narrower to accommodate some rather odd keywords.

Logiatrix	18 Feb 2003
kiama, classical tarots, golden tarot of the tsar, renaissance tarot by brian williams, minchiate tarot by brian williams, tarot of the saints, and medieval scapini tarot... these are all re-colorings (classical tarots), or completely new interpretations of historical works or themes. FYI: brian william's works are always a good way to learn about historical tarots--his books are the best! :)

lionette	06 Mar 2004
Hi all, Just opened my Tarot of the Master last nite (first spread http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23460). Liking it even more than I thought! Curious what book you'd recommend for me just starting into the historical decks??

Ruby7	06 Mar 2004
The Tarot of the Master is a deck that I have wanted to get for some time now, so I will look forward to reading your review Kiama, Ruby7

The Tarot of the Master and Historical Decks thread was originally posted on 15 Feb 2003 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.