Need a new, deeper deck...

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 17 Apr 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Kiama	17 Apr 2003
Many people on Aeclectic will know of my passion for the Robin Wood Tarot deck... I've been using it solidly for the last 2-3 years (Apart from when I went through a month long fascination with the Nigel Jackson Tarot!) and it's been really helping me understand Tarot more, and I've given some great readings with it... But recently I've noticed that I've been using the deck so long, that I don't actually see anything new in the cards... It's like I've got a 'stock' of intepretations, which I use when I give a reading, and they hardly ever change, because I never see a different image on each card... For instance, whenever I see the Heirophant in this deck, I immediately think 'repression and organised religion', but I know that with other decks I would probably see something totally different such as 'tradition, mediation between man and God, the Divinw word...' I really want to break out of my 'stock interpretation readings', cuz they sem to be holding me back quite alot. And I also feel now that this deck sometimes takes the traditional archetypes for granted, and uses them as an excuse to do away with any meaningful symbology in the cards! For instance, we see the High Priestess... And it just seems that it is taken for granted that we find the fact that she is a High Priestess meaningful in every single reading, and there is hardly any other symbology which fits with the meaning of that card... The only other symbology in there is stuff that is related to a High Priestess, and this is just taking it for granted. I find the same to be true of the Heirophant, Magician, Wheel of Fortune, and many other Major Arcana cards. Last night I did a reading for my housemate with this deck. Justice came up, and I've never been a fan of that card... I was having trouble reading it, so I imagined a different decks' Justice card in my head... In this case the Thoth Justice popped into my head, and lo! My answer was there... This card in this readig was about adjusting this man's relationship to fit the changes that were happening in his life, but just by lookig at the Robin Wood deck, I doubt I would've seen that. So, given that lengthy explanation of my current situation, I am asking for your help... I need a new deck to read with. I need a deck which doesn't take archetypes for granted... If the deck has Wheel of Fortune that simply has a pretty looking wheel it in, it can stay on the shelf! Just cuz there's a wheel in the card doesn't mean I can use that in a reading. Just cuz there's a sword and scales in a card does not mean it has any meaning to me... I want a deck that includes symbols which can be picked up on in a reading, but also interpreted in different ways depending on which symbol you pick up, what the question is, etc... I also want a pretty deck, but one that remains fairly traditional. One with illustrated Minors which are just as easily readable as the Majors... Traditional numbering, Swords=Air, Wands=Fire, (Don't care what number Justice and Strength are, as long as the other Majors have the traditional numbers!) and preferably quite traditional imagery, but only alot more symbolic and detailed... Am I asking too much? Am I once again on the search for 'my perfect deck'? Crikey I thought I'd ended that search when I found the Robin Wood deck! Any suggestions? Kiama

divinerguy	17 Apr 2003
Kiama, Take a look at the Cosmic (Norbert Losche). I think its got more depth and symbology than many decks, while not doing too much of an injustice to RWS conventions.

jema	17 Apr 2003
you already got the deck. it is of course the Thoth;) or perhaps the spiral? either one is really good.

ihcoyc	17 Apr 2003
If lots of symbolism are what you are after, the decks that come to mind for me are: Crowley Thoth Tavaglione Stairs of Gold (if you can stand it) Mediaeval Scapini

Kiama	17 Apr 2003
Well, Thoth I use now but only for study... I don't like partially illustrated Minors (I prefer actual scenes) so the Thoth Minors leave me pretty cold... Kiama

Rusty Neon	17 Apr 2003
.... Or you could consider buy yourself another tarot book. (Or a book on astrology, mythology, etc.) Sometimes a good book can give more new insights into card meanings, to allow you to see the cards differently within the same symbolism, to break you out of your mold. .... Or get yourself a Rider deck. You might now notice details you hadn't noticed earlier. My 2 cents anyway.

Kiama	17 Apr 2003
Hi Rusty Neon, Thanks for the suggestion! I often find that new boos really do give me added insight into the cards, but the problem is, whenever I read with the Robin Wood deck, all those new insights seem to shoot out of the window! I have so many interpretations of teh cards, and they are all so rich and deep in meaning, but I take one look at the Robin Wood deck, and they just disappear from my head! It's like writer's block, only worse! (And writer's block is terrible!) Kiama

Rusty Neon	17 Apr 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Kiama I often find that new books really do give me added insight into the cards, but the problem is, whenever I read with the Robin Wood deck, all those new insights seem to shoot out of the window! I have so many interpretations of teh cards, and they are all so rich and deep in meaning, but I take one look at the Robin Wood deck, and they just disappear from my head! It's like writer's block, only worse! (And writer's block is terrible!) Kiama It might not necessarily be a problem with the Robin Wood deck. A given card in a given deck is only going to portray a subset of all the possible interpretations of the given card. Perhaps you could decide, first, to not look at the picture so as to be able to focus on applying some of these other meanings, and only then, look at the picture, for additional insights. If you can't detach from the pictures, try a deck with unillustrated pip cards for a short while. And ... back again to the Rider, that deck is a lot more 'ambiguous' than many of its clones, and so it may help overcome writer's block and give new images.

azuremariposa	17 Apr 2003
Hi Kiama! I kind of relate to what you are saying b/c i used the RW deck exclusively for 15 yrs, and for a long period didn't get much out of it besides the usual "blah blah rote meaning blah blah"...it's only been the past 3 yrs or so that my interpretations took on deeper meanings, things that i didn't necessarily "see" in the cards, but things i "felt" in the draw... i'm not saying this is your situation, but that is what i went through... now, my recent purchases opened my eyes about decks and what i could "see" in them and what i "felt" from them...i have since revised my list of decks i wish to acquire, and offer that up to you in case you find any of these interesting...i haven't known you long enough to know whether you have them (you prolly do) or whether you've used them or whatever...these are decks that really speak to me (lately): Shapeshifter Cosmic Tarot Buckland Romani Goddess Tarot Fey Tarot Tarot de Paris Durer Tarot Quest Tarot Morgan-Greer i also have your Robin Wood & Universal Waite on my list...:D and that's the "short" list...those that truly speak to ME...i have others on my list that i plan to collect, not use... in either case, hope you find a new deck for yourself soon...:) best of luck, eh? ;) many blessings to you! ~azure p.s. for some reason i also keep coming back to Tarot of the Moon Garden (is that the title?)...i think that will be the deck i get for my children...but i might end up getting a deck for myself as well... too many decks!! LOL

Khatruman	17 Apr 2003
For deeper symbology, I would suggest the Haindl deck, as well as getting the books on the deck written by Rachel Pollack. Not only do you have a lot of symbology, as well as a more abstract quality to the art (which also lends itself to being freshly interpreted each reading) you have i-ching and rune correspondences, which deepen meaning. Others are giving you fine suggestions. I was looking at the fact that you are saying repeated use has limited your ability to see anything new. And I agree that happens when a decks picture is very concrete. You need both abstract qualities and symbology that is open to many layers of meaning. Added also: Ohh, and another point about reading, one that is opening up reading for me more comes from reading Pollack's new book, where she points out the obvious thing many overlook, in that a reading is a reading, you are basically reading a story when you do a spread. So just as words can take on different meanings when placed in a series of other words, in its context, a tarot card takes on different meanings in relation to the cards around it. Instead of looking at the High Priestess and what THAT card means, what does it mean that the High Priestess is adjacent to the 6 of Swords? What does it mean that it is opposite the Hierophant? What does it mean when it is in a reading with three Queens?

ihcoyc	17 Apr 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Kiama Thanks for the suggestion! I often find that new books really do give me added insight into the cards, but the problem is, whenever I read with the Robin Wood deck, all those new insights seem to shoot out of the window! In that case, you may find that as far as deck symbolism goes, less is more. As I've said before, the problem I have with decks in the Waite-Smith tradition is that they seem too forcing; they make you deal with the image and scene on that card. You seem to be having that problem here --- you go to the books, you take new ideas from them, but once you get back to the familiar scenes on your most familiar deck, you have a hard time remembering it because that scene itself becomes the prompt. You might give a deck with unillustrated pips a try.

Kiama	17 Apr 2003
It seems we are talking about whether 'less is more' when it comes to the symbols in the deck or not here... Many have suggested that in order for me to get rid of the forced rote interpretations of the cards, I should use a deck with non-illustrated pips. This would indeed help those who use the memorisation techqniue of reading (Where they remember words for each card and repeat them when the card comes up in a reading) Unfortauntely, I do not use this method, and 'Say What I See' in the card's image. I look at the card, and ask myself things like, 'hat's goig on in this card?' 'What do their facial expressions mean?' 'What are their surrounding like?' But, as Ihoyc said, sometimes deck pnly show one possible meaning for each card, which they protray in the image itself... So, whilst I would not be able to use non-illustrated pips (I would immediately have to transfer that pip to an image of the corresponding Robin Wood pip in my head, and I'd still get the rote meanings come to me) I think what I am looking for is a deck which shows all the different possible meanings for each card it the card images. Maybe a collage deck would do this better than most other decks? Kiama

azuremariposa	17 Apr 2003
perhaps the comparative deck, then?? just a thought...:) many blessings... ~azure

Kiama	17 Apr 2003
OOooh, I like Azure's suggestion there... I was considering that just now actually, so I would get 4 different 'opinions' in one reading... But then I look at the Comparitive Tarot, and wish there were 4 DIFFERENT decks used in it! What I might do for a while is use the Robin Wood, aswell as another deck at the same time... So, whn I do a reading, I do the reading with the Robin Wood, but find the corresponding cards from another deck and put them down next to the Robin Wood cards, so I get different takes on it... Kiama

azuremariposa	17 Apr 2003
LOL...yeah, i'm not fond of Marseilles *azure ducks book thrown by Diana* or that Egyptian one, myself... if you do use two decks, make sure the second deck is something totally different from your Robin Wood (like Thoth or Haindl)...that way you REALLY get a different take on the card... i just had an idea, totally out there though...will edit for idea...but post this for now...good luck, Kiama! :) many blessings... ~azure ok, here's the idea...not practical for doing a reading face to face, but perhaps just for the helluvit once in a while... cost might be a factor in this, as well as convenience make your own comparative booklet... take cards from different decks you own & have them either scanned together (can do this w/Kodak machine found in supermarkets (grocery stores) or drugstores here in US...not sure if ya have 'em in the UK) or get colour copies made of each "set"... if you do it w/the photo machine you can print to any standard size photo you like, if colour copies you'd have to put them in a standard notebook w/page protectors i'd suspect...lay out your reading w/your Robin Wood, then compare w/your comparative version...i'm thinking one could possibly make your own comparative deck w/the photomachine, get the images placed on card stock and basically make your own deck... i don't know where these ideas come from...lol...i'm crazy i think... :) ok, i'm outta here...best of luck to you, Kiama...

galadrial	17 Apr 2003
I like Khatruman's advice (Haindl's deck was the first that came to my mind) and would add that you might also try different spreads, which would make you ask yourself "what does this card mean as..." an unconcious influence, a shadow aspect, a fear, a blessing; what would it say if it were giving advice? I got some interesting insights from the book "Tarot: Your Everyday Guide", by Janina Renee, because she treats every card from the point of view of an advice card and gives a lot of fresh, interesting ways to look at them without losing their core RWS meanings.

Aoife	17 Apr 2003
I'd like to second Khatruman's idea about experimenting with a different method or style of reading with an 'old favourite' deck. So, for example, drawing two cards for each position in a three or five card spread - reading not what is seen or intuited from each card but that which lies between. I have found it an extremely useful way of breaking out of established ideas, really challenging me to 'look beyond', to understand relationship and only then relating it to context.

Diana	17 Apr 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Kiama Many have suggested that in order for me to get rid of the forced rote interpretations of the cards, I should use a deck with non-illustrated pips. This would indeed help those who use the memorisation techqniue of reading (Where they remember words for each card and repeat them when the card comes up in a reading) That's not how one reads so-called non-illustrated pips. Kiama, why don't you have a look at the thread in the Historical section where we studied the 2's in the Marseilles deck. You'll see that memorisation is way way down on the list of how to read these cards.

Rose	17 Apr 2003
Kiama your postings always make me think. What you're describing can happen with any deck. If I'm reading for someone else I mainly use either the Universal Waite or the Illuminated Tarot (Carol Herzer's repainting of the RWS). For me the images on the Rider-Waite are broader than the images on most other decks. I use a variety of different decks when using the cards as a tool for personal development and awareness. People have already given you some good suggestions. Maybe some of these will be useful too. 1. Rotate decks, don't read with the same deck all the time. Find a few decks that you feel comfortable with and use all of them. 2. Pick a card each day from the same deck and figure out a new way to look at it. Focus in on different parts of the card. Associate proverbs, idioms, expressions, song titles, etc. with the card image or even the title of the card. The meanings can range from a subtle differences to totally new. Then do it again and maybe again….. Write down your thoughts. Try to get to the point where the image on the card brings up a variety of related images in your mind (hopefully this makes sense). 3. Don't let the fact that a card has pictures deter you from using a meaning based on the number and suit of the card (kind of like using unillustrated pips but not). Say something like "The image on this card usually represents …………, but in this case it makes more sense to interpret the card according to the meaning of its number and suit." 4. Do a side by side comparison of cards from different decks. Sometimes it helps one see a card in a new way. You've already indicated that you can take this further and lay out a spread using your primary deck and put the matching card from a different deck next to each card. (This is actually one of my favorite ways) 5. If you don't have the book that Robin Wood wrote to accompany her deck it might help. She explains why she drew each card the way she did. 6. The Penguin Dictionary of Symbols is a pretty good book. Looking up the meanings of different items on a card may give a different slant to the card meaning. 7. If it helps, give yourself permission to visualize an image from a different card. Rose

raeanne	17 Apr 2003
Kiama, I will also second (or third) the suggestion for the Haindl deck. The Voyager might also be a good deck to help you break free from the rut you are in. Since you really like your Robin Wood deck, you might want to do some role playing with it. Take one card and try to think of several different stories to explain how this picture came to be, or what will happen next. The more stories you can come up with, the more you will break away from the same old routine. Have fun!

azuremariposa	17 Apr 2003
Kiama, one more suggestion and i'll shut up :D was browsing the decks just now (i should smack myself next time i do that...) and added another to my list, but thought of you and this predicament when i saw it...don't know if you've considered it, but have you looked at the Templar Tarot? i found the imagery to be quite remarkable and it might help you in your "quest"... just a thought...:) many blessings! ~azure

Lee	17 Apr 2003
Hi Kiama -- I know it's expensive, but I've found the Healing Tarot to encompass some of what you're looking for. I find that the expressions of the faces and the creative masks provide some of the depth that's missing in other decks. Do you have the World Spirit? I don't feel moved to work with it, but it has lots and lots of interesting symbology on each card, and seems like it might be just the thing if you're looking for a fresh take. The Haindl doesn't have people interacting in scenes on the Minors, so I think that one may not be for you. -- Lee :)

Astraea	17 Apr 2003
Hi, Kiama! All of the suggestions you have received are excellent. May I add one more? Since you use the Thoth for study but do not care for its minors, perhaps you would resonate with the Tarot of the Spirit -- it is in the Thoth tradition and beautifully illustrated.

Melvis	17 Apr 2003
Lots of good suggestions have been given already, but I'm sure you'd love to hear to more! :D The Light and Shadow Tarot is my "OK, now we're serious" deck. I bought it for my collection but I found myself reading with it more and more often. The black and white designs are obviously very stark in color but they are also very detailed, giving you lots of information to work with. One drawback is that the cards are very large so I have to shuffle them vertically. Also, you mentioned that you wanted a 'pretty' deck, which is not exactly the word I'd use to describe this one! ;) Anyway, I also agree with the suggestion for the Templar Tarot. Most of the cards have great detail in them, and the artwork is very striking. Good luck in your search! Melvis :TSTRE

Rusty Neon	17 Apr 2003
Another deck you might want to be on the lookout for is the Golden Tarot (by retrocat) that will soon be published by U.S. Games. http://www.goldentarot.com/micopa.htm http://www.goldentarot.com/misw04.htm Also check out the Golden Tarot thread on our forum.

Sea Sprite	17 Apr 2003
How about The Russian Tarot of St Petersburg? :D

RedWood	17 Apr 2003
If it is like writers block...They why not write...Grab a notebook. Start writing about teh tarot deck you want..Why the Robin Wood is not working.. Maybe You will get down to what you really want from a deck. Or find the cause of this. This way for now..It saves you money from buying even MORE decks (LOL i know...we all love decks) Anyway..Hope you get what I mean.

sunflowr	17 Apr 2003
Try the Fey! :) Or how about The Quest Tarot?

amyel	17 Apr 2003
Kiama, since you like studying tarot as well as reading, may I humbly suggest you read "Forest of the Souls" (assuming you haven't had time with all your uni studies)? You may find you want to try to "Shining Tribe" tarot as a result. I think alot of people are put off by it because of the art style - but I am continually amazed at the depth of the readings I receive when I use it. You could pm Marion about it, too. I know she has it as a result of Rachel's a-fore-mentioned book....

magpie9	17 Apr 2003
Hi Kiama, I really enjoy your approach to Tarot, and have a suggestion: Try the spiral Tarot....It's RW based, wands=fire, swirds=air, fully illustrated minor. Very beautiful, very deep. Lots of symbolism, lots of detail, has the astrology, kabbalah, etc on each card. There's a book you can buy seperately ($10. USA) that gives the symbolism and goes into a Mythic background for each Major..really excellent deep tarot, but you don't have to learn a whole new system to pick it up and use it. Some very nice twists in the minor--I really like this 5 cups, for example. I think Aeclectic has pictures and reviews, and all. Sometimes it's just time to do it with a new deck, and see where it takes you. I've done it many times, and incorperating the new deck has always (almost without exception) been beneficial. It's not like you don't come back and use the old decks, too...you do. But refreshed. :) It's a journey, enjoy the trip. :D

Khatruman	17 Apr 2003
Quote: Originally posted by amyel Kiama, since you like studying tarot as well as reading, may I humbly suggest you read "Forest of the Souls" (assuming you haven't had time with all your uni studies)? You may find you want to try to "Shining Tribe" tarot as a result. I love Forest of Souls. I am just finishing the final chapter of that book and it has made me think more about the tarot than any list of card meanings or books, etc. I definitely recommend the book. However, I am not enticed to buy the "Shining Tribe" as a result of reading it. To me, she seemed to be self-aggrandizing in her extensive use of it, though it is understandable that she would use it as an example since it would speak to her most clearly. I just find her book to be deeply moving on a philosophical level.

Aerin	18 Apr 2003
Quote: Originally posted by sunflowr Try the Fey! :) Or how about The Quest Tarot? I second the Fey. It isn't deep in the sense of openly parading loads of symbols and squiggley lines and etc, it is in the sense of giving you qite a different 'take' on a card. It challenges me all the time in that way. It's a subtle deck - and very fey. Aerin

Kaz	18 Apr 2003
i know you dont like the minors, but i think thoth is THE deck ! and marseille deck, diana is right, read up on that thread, it might get you using one, my second choice. haindl is a good suggestion as well. and for something completely different, maybe not darker or deeper, the voyager deck. i dont like it, but some people love this deck, the cards are full with collage art images.

Kiama	18 Apr 2003
Quote: Originally posted by RedWood If it is like writers block...They why not write...Grab a notebook. Start writing about the tarot deck you want..Why the Robin Wood is not working.. Maybe You will get down to what you really want from a deck. Or find the cause of this. This way for now..It saves you money from buying even MORE decks (LOL i know...we all love decks) Anyway..Hope you get what I mean. Hi Redwood, thanks for the suggestion: It makes alot of sense... I actually found myself realising more and more which deck I needed and why I was getting nowhere with the Robin Wood, just by typing in this thread... Who was it that mentioned teh Healing Tarot? That's number 1 on my wishlist right now, so I ight just give it a try... (After the Marseilles, Spiral, Templar, and... Yes, Thoth!) Kiama

Marion	18 Apr 2003
Hi Kiama, I really wanted to post here, though I realize you have had lots of excellent suggestions and information. I also went through a Robin-Wood-only for reading phase. And I learned a lot from the deck. It is very user-friendly, and I personally consider an excellent deck to take steps into the tarot. But, though I have not one, but two copies of it, I never turn to it anymore. The way that happened was examining and trying other decks. Not just looking at them, but reading with them. Trying them out, taking them for a test drive so to speak. And gradually you get those 'aha' moments from them. I now have several decks I use frequently and many more I use infrequently. I literally pick the deck for the person and for the situation. I know my fav decks well enough to know which one will fit. Kiama, you have dozens of decks. I am willing to bet that there are at least 10 of those decks that you could work with and which would broaden and deepen your readng skills. Open those boxes! (after exams). Marion

Silverlotus	18 Apr 2003
Hi Kiama, I have a couple of suggestions, if you don't mind. First, have you read the book Ms. Wood wrote for the cards? It's very interesting and enlightning, imho. I enjoyed finding out why she picked specific colours and symbols for each card, and it pointed out many things I had not noticed. Secondly, Redwood's idea about journal is great. Grab a card, and journal about it. Start with your "stock interpretation" and go from there. You might be surprised at what you write down. But don't judge any of it until, say, you've written for at least 10 mintues, or until you have nothing more to say. Thirdly, you could create your own comparative tarot deck, sort of like you did when the image of Thoth Justice jumped into your head. Do the reading with the Robin Wood since you like it so much, but add the same cards for one or more other decks. That way you can see images from decks that you know, but may have conflicting images. Good luck. And it you do find a great new deck, please let me know. I love the Robin Wood and I would be interested in what you find to "replace" it.

lawguy51	18 Apr 2003
Hi Kiama: I'm going to weigh in here, having just read this thread. I've never understood people's preference for Robin Wood. Just too cartoonie for me but hey, that's just me, not a critisizm. Morgan Greer is about as far as I can go. And I love my Universal Waite deck but like you, I was getting too familiar with the cards. Victoria Regina I liked, but it's not a handy deck to use. Then I got turned onto the Haindl deck and read both books and tried and tried to love it but I just couldn't quite connect with the deck. But I liked the Crowley influence so I went to the Thoth deck. Haven't really used another deck since. Now as for the pips, every one of them tells me a story, no less so than my Universal Waite deck. I have a handy little book called Keywords for the Crowley Tarot by Banzhaf and Theler which is a great reference guide for both the symbology and a great primer for meanings. It doesn't take long before the pips become full of imagery both in colour and symbology. and you don't need to know what all the symbols mean. I mean, a dying flower is a dying flower! You've got the deck. Take a good look at the minor arcana. Look at the 8 of Wands and tell me it doesn't look like your brain on overdrive. The 7 of disks. Yuk. And for me, the Thoth deck is the only deck I have where the court cards actually evoke meaning by their symbology, not just because there's a guy with a sword sitting on a throne, so, yeah, that's the ole King of Swords. The Knight of Disks, Queen of Swords, such imagery!!! Well, there, I've added to your confusion! Lawguy51

Logiatrix	18 Apr 2003
several good decks have been mentioned; i second (and third) these: --Templar --Haindl --Voyager --Quest my favorite of these is the Templar--VERY deep, IMO. however, querents either love it or hate it. ;) i recently came to this same wall with my beloved visconti gold. i realized i had to retire my old friend and move on. i have been on a journey in search of the next ONE, and right now it seems that i need to return to basics. i am using my RWS for readings and i've also begun a serious study of the Pictorial Keys--really reading it, not just looking cards up. i'm feeling that this is what i'm supposed to do right now. you know how it is when The World card comes up: time for a new journey, and the Fool sets out once again! Joy and Godspeed on your journey, Kiama... :) edited to add: this is an excellent excuse to acquire more decks, so why not take your time--"try" lots and lots of decks! muhahahaha! })

HeidiAussie	18 Apr 2003
Hi Kiama, I'm going to go abit different to most other people. >But recently I've noticed that I've been using the deck so long, >that I don't actually see anything new in the cards... It's like I've >got a 'stock' of intepretations, which I use when I give a >reading, and they hardly ever change, because I never see a >different image on each card... >Last night I did a reading for my housemate with this deck. >Justice came up, and I've never been a fan of that card... I was >having trouble reading it, so I imagined a different decks' Justice >card in my head... In this case the Thoth Justice popped into my >head, and lo! My answer was there... This card in this readig >was about adjusting this man's relationship to fit the changes >that were happening in his life, but just by lookig at the Robin >Wood deck, I doubt I would've seen that. Alright. Going by these two paragraphs I don't think there is anything wrong with the RW deck as a reading deck, I think the problem is YOU. With tarot and its many layers (usually!), we as readers need to remain open to ALL the possibilities in the cards. If you have developed 'stock interpretations' to the RW cards that is because you have stopped looking for those possibilities, to be blunt you've become lazy in your reliance on 'stock'. How to fix this is the biggie. IMO you don't need to go out and get another deck to read with OR to double read with another deck. Keep doing the RW readings but really LOOK at the cards. Whap yourself on the head when you try and just use 'stock', STOP and really consider the other possible meanings the card is showing you. Keep doing this ruthlessly, so you eventually train yourself to automatically consider all the possibilities the deck offers you again. Perhaps the real reason that another deck would not help IMO is what is to stop the same thing happening with the 'new' deck? >And I also feel now that this deck sometimes takes the >traditional archetypes for granted, and uses them as an excuse >to do away with any meaningful symbology in the cards! For >instance, we see the High Priestess... And it just seems that it is >taken for granted OTOH (or 3 *S*) if you are truly unsatisfied with the level of detail the deck offers/you've 'grown' out of the deck, then you may well be better off moving onto another reading deck. BUT IMO you can't say that for sure until you've made sure that YOU aren't taking the RW itself for granted in your readings (and not looking at the other options it may be jumping up and down and screaming at you). Whew! Let me down gently if this is all wrong once you've read it please? ;-p Cheers, Heidi Aussie

Rose	18 Apr 2003
Kiama, One other thought. I'm just groping around in the dark since I don't know you personally. It seems from your posts on this forum that you have a solid grasp of tarot knowledge and you certainly are familiar with a large number of decks. Your collection is large and your deck reviews are really helpful. Is it possible that you're reading the cards too often particularly for other people. It's hard to look at something with fresh eyes if it's overused. Again, I could be way off base. Rose

Kiama	19 Apr 2003
Quote: Originally posted by HeidiAussie Alright. Going by these two paragraphs I don't think there is anything wrong with the RW deck as a reading deck, I think the problem is YOU. With tarot and its many layers (usually!), we as readers need to remain open to ALL the possibilities in the cards. If you have developed 'stock interpretations' to the RW cards that is because you have stopped looking for those possibilities, to be blunt you've become lazy in your reliance on 'stock'. How to fix this is the biggie. IMO you don't need to go out and get another deck to read with OR to double read with another deck. Keep doing the RW readings but really LOOK at the cards. Whap yourself on the head when you try and just use 'stock', STOP and really consider the other possible meanings the card is showing you. Keep doing this ruthlessly, so you eventually train yourself to automatically consider all the possibilities the deck offers you again. Hi Heidi, thanks for the input! I do this alot... It's part of how I read: Look at the cards and try and work out the possibilities within them. Unfortunately, the Robin Wood deck, with many cards, often only shows one possible interpretation. Look at the Heirophant... Whilst I respect Robin Wood's standpoint and beliefs about Christianity and organised religion, I do wish she hadn't instilled her dislike of it into this card, for instead of the teacher, mediator guy I see in some dcks, she has drawn an effective diatribe against organised religion... So, this card isn't actually offering me any other possibilities except those which detest organised religion. Rose: I'm not entirely sure I understand your post... Coudl you elaborate a bit for me please? Kiama

HOLMES	19 Apr 2003
how about the buckland romani , the tarot of the old path, the witches tarot by reed, the innerchild cards, the morgon greer deck, the hanson roberts decks? out of these. i would pick. 1. greer or the buckland. 2. innerchilds or hansons or witches tarot by reed. or ,, a totally new deck that you can go without preconceptions, one that you havne't seen before, it will be like reading a new book for you and should unlock your mind. or possible.. get a sciencefitic deck like the tarot of the seprioth, or the pythogerean tarot. (darn i am bads speller) wheel of change tarot . only thing i see wrong is these decks aren't illustrated as you like. for collage deck,, voyager ? the new tarot of transformation ? or reprinted as i understand heeh. or how about the questor tarot, or the native american for a change. ? i am not sure about deeper tarot,, some say the thoth, or the oso zen are deep decks ,, 1. deep in spirituality ? 2. deep in knowledge like the golden dawn ritual magic deck ? or the tarot of cermonial magick ? 3. or just deep in imagery so vibrant that you have no choice but to use it.. *sighs if only they would make the aquatic tarot or the rainwalker tarot *

Rose	19 Apr 2003
Kiama, I'm not sure I can explain any better. I was just doing the internet equivalent of thinking (or rambling) out loud. After rereading your original post on this thread it sounds like you just need a change. I think it's common when you do something over and over-and get good at it-that it can become routine. At that point you need something new to challenge you. I do agree with your comments about the shortcomings in the Robin Wood tarot. I do use a variety of decks-although I consistently fall back on the Universal Waite or the Illuminated RWS by Carol Herzer. Just want to add that based on posts like your recent answer to Joseph Martin, you take those "stock meanings" and apply them articulately and insightfully to a situation. Even the "stock meanings" take on different shades when applied like this. I admire the fact that you constantly strive for improvement. Rose

RiccardoLS	19 Apr 2003
Just my 2 cents... If You have spent so much time with one deck, before you can really change deck, you will need to move on something really different. Otherwise you will continuosly compare the new image to the old deck, ending up - at least partially - reading with your memories and not with the new deck. It's like a flavor... the stronger it is the previous one, the less it is possible to notice sublte differencies. I would suggest you to take a break with some very different deck, like maybe the Osho Zen, a Marseille one or the Origins. Anything, really, just that it's different from the one you are used to. Riccardo

Cerulean	19 Apr 2003
_____________________ Who was it that mentioned teh Healing Tarot? That's number 1 on my wishlist right now, so I ight just give it a try... (After the Marseilles, Spiral, Templar, and... Yes, Thoth!) Kiama _____________________ Here are online scans of the Healing tarot cards: http://www.bluewitch.com/healingtarot/cards.htm Lee Bursten chatted about the Healing Tarot recently in another post, so that's the second or third wonderful recommendation that I've heard from other collectors. I'm running over to Tarotgarden.com after this. Perhaps you do want try the Healing Tarot for yourself and you might look at the Spiral as a reading deck...if the Templar is the multicolored painted version that I am thinking of, I had a funny reaction almost right away. The colors in the store and on online scans were gorgeous---those blue and plum tones really felt nice. Back home, it became a tarot that I collaged over very quickly. I liked the way the titles were incorporated in the picture, the use of colors--and I rapidly covered every single picture in the deck. After awhile I figured I loved the colors, but the artstyle was like Enochian, which doesn't sit well with me. If it helps you to make a decision, I think Cricket also posted about online samples of the Spiral Tarot, as well. Let me know if you need other links. Based on what you said, it seems illustrated, scenic pips are a preference, although you are willing to try the plainer pip variations. Depending on one's mood and orientation, the Marseilles decks use of similar colors and patterns can be soothing, boring or suggestive--but sometimes if you are reading for others, Thoth or a Marseilles deck requires extra work to explain. Best wishes and hope that we hear what you found for your latest... Mari H.

purplelady	19 Apr 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Kiama I think what I am looking for is a deck which shows all the different possible meanings for each card it the card images. Maybe a collage deck would do this better than most other decks? Kiama Kiama, you simply MUST try the Voyager! It is what I have been using and I LOVE it! I used to think it was ugly and no way. Now I love it, what can I say? The images are unconventional, with Many choices in every card to focus on. I never even think about the borders anymore because the gemstone pictures are so beautiful. You keep saying that the "rote memorization" of the Robin Wood meanings keep popping into your head even when veiwing pip cards from another deck? Perhaps you really have used Robin Wood for too long? Voyager could possibly break you out of that rut. The images are never simple , and always multi-faceted. But oddly, the verbal meaning can usually come down to a few simple words or phrases that are understandable. Get grounded , have an open mind. Forget what you have learned before . I am only using 3 card readings at the time with this deck.

Kissa	20 Apr 2003
considering your collection of decks, why don't you just go thru it and pick one up ??? most of us only can view scans of decks but you have the opportunity to see them "live" :-) i think that someone's attraction to a deck is a very particular phenomenon and someone's dream deck can be somebody else's "nightmare". kissa

Ravenswing	20 Apr 2003
Kiama-- Once it's finished, I'll send you a copy of my deck... about the end of '04 I hope. How patient are you?? LOL!!! Here's the moon, for one: fly well raven

RedWood	20 Apr 2003
Ravenswing...Great Moon!! HEHE..Too funny about the waiting part...Nice plug!! LOL

The Need a new, deeper deck... thread was originally posted on 17 Apr 2003 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.