Spirit of Flowers - Antonella Castelli

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 23 May 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

firemaiden	23 May 2003
Wheeeeeee. Thank you Argeo from Alidastore, it's here! My newest "happy meal". Yes indeed, it is fluffy bunny, but really delightful. No, I can't usually tell what the card meanings are supposed to be from the illustration, but does that matter? Just as Castellí's Primavera deck was a study in the art of Alphonse Mucha, this deck is virtually a study of Victorian Flower Fairy painting. (Children and flowers) What saves these cards from sticking together with their own syrup, is that the children are, for the most part, real. Real children have dignity. Not all, but many of the paintings are quite wonderful portraits of children, in various moods, poses, and expressions. The Major Arcana honorably portray what they should. My favorite is XII: a child playing by hanging upside down from a poppy. As is the case with the Primavera tarot, it seems, the card meanings are to be deduced from the facial expression and mood of the subject, yet ooooooh, soooooooooo very subtley! Yet, the suit cards follow their own system of meanings based on the language of flowers, and this only rarely corresponds with the tarot meanings which I have learned; perhaps others will see it differently. I would be most interested to know! Each suit is represented by one color of flower: Swords: White flowers Chalices: Blue flowers Wands: Red Flowers Pentacles: Yellow flowers Each card represents one species of flower, and the suit number is represented by the number of blooms. If nothing else, you will learn alot of flower names from this. For example, the 5 of pentacles shows a fairy floating in the sky, and reaching for a flower (St John's Wort) just beyond her grasp. I would have thought this would express well the RWS meaning of being shut out, or not quite being able to attain something one wishes. Most incomprehensibly, however, the LWB says: "in the language of Flowers: courtship, longed-for engagement" and the DM is "Suitor, fiancé, friend, gallantry, understanding, relationship". Hmmm. The longer I ponder the relation between image, flower meaning, card meaning, and tarot meaning, the more I am convinced that the best way to read with this deck would be to consider it a tarot deck with un-illustrated minors which just happen to have pretty pictures on them. :(

Rusty Neon	23 May 2003
Quote: Originally posted by firemaiden Yet, the suit cards follow their own system of meanings based on the language of flowers, and this only rarely corresponds with the tarot meanings which I have learned; perhaps others will see it differently. I would be most interested to know! ..... For example, the 5 of pentacles shows a fairy floating in the sky, and reaching for a flower (St John's Wort) just beyond her grasp. I would have thought this would express well the RWS meaning of being shut out, or not quite being able to attain something one wishes. Most incomprehensibly, however, the LWB says: "in the language of Flowers: courtship, longed-for engagement" and the DM is "Suitor, fiancé, friend, gallantry, understanding, relationship". Hi firemaiden ... This divinatory meaning -- "Lover, Suitor" -- corresponds to the Etteilla meaning for the upright 5 of Coins. In fact, this divinatory meaning is a secondary meaning illustrated by the presence of the couple in the Rider deck's 5 of Pentacles. This secondary is mentioned in Waite's book _The Pictorial Key to the Tarot_. (Incidentally, the Etteilla reversed 5 of Coins has the divinatory meaning of disorder, troubled life -- corresponding to the main meaning illustrated by the RWS 5 of Pentacles.) I'd be interested to know which other minor arcana meanings don't fit with the mainstream RWS meanings. These may easily be explained by divinatory meanings from Etteilla or from Continental cartomancy. Similarly, a number of Lo Scarabeo tarot decks' minor arcana depart from mainstream RWS meanings in this way.

Mimers	23 May 2003
Firemaiden, Wow, thanks for sharing your feedback on this deck. I don't know if I could read with a deck with flower images, but I do love my gardening! How is this LWB? is it just a key word kind of book, or does it give reasons for choosing certain flowers for certain cards? Mimers

Kyrielle	23 May 2003
The art in this deck reminds me of Cicely Mary Barker's Flower Fairy paintings. I want this deck!! Is it available from dealers in the US yet, or only ordered from Italy? -- Kyrielle

falconwing	24 May 2003
oh Lord, I am afraid I did a great mistake to order this deck....well, I guess this will be another deck for trading *faint-smile Falconwing

firemaiden	24 May 2003
NO Falconwing, not a mistake, if what Rusty Neon says is true, the divinitory meanings do indeed have relationships to the meanings we know. He may have to help us with seeing them. :) Mimers, the LWB gives the flower name for each picture, explains the meaning in the language of the flowers, and then gives the dvinitory meaning related to the flower. See my example for the 5 of pentacles. Here is another example: the Five of cups shows two little girls standing back to back in front of five cornflower blooms. The taller girl has a smug smile, (because she is taller?) the shorter one, the slightest glimmer of disappointment . -- I thougt this was to demonstrate the idea of disappointment -- HA! The LWB says: Quote: Five: Cornflower In the language of flowers: complete worry-free happpiness. Success, gift, wealth, inheritance, patrimony, adventure, detachment from the past, freedom. Is that a shade of some traditional meaning? A reversal perhaps? There are also some cards where the LWB makes sense to me, but the mood of the card jars with the it: for example the Three of Swords shows three Convolvulus blooms. A bright blond fairy is peering laughingly into the depth of one bloom. The LWB says: Quote: Three: Convolvulus In the language of flowers: lack of interest and trust. Separation, breakdown, scattering, delay, dislike, oppostion, retreat, personality conflict, disaproval, imprisonment. A bit of research on the internet reveals more repertoires of the Victorian Language of the Flowers.

Wildchild	24 May 2003
This deck sounds interesting...is there a link to some pictures anywhere?

firemaiden	24 May 2003
Alida Store has the best scans. Also see Tarot Garden's upcoming releases page

Rusty Neon	24 May 2003
Quote: Originally posted by firemaiden the Five of cups shows two little girls standing back to back in front of five cornflower blooms. The taller girl has a smug smile, (because she is taller?) the shorter one, the slightest glimmer of disappointment . -- I thougt this was to demonstrate the idea of disappointment -- HA! The LWB says: "Five: Cornflower In the language of flowers: complete worry-free happpiness. Success, gift, wealth, inheritance, patrimony, adventure, detachment from the past, freedom." Is that a shade of some traditional meaning? A reversal perhaps? hi firemaiden .... The Etteilla 5 of Cups Upright keyword is Legacy/Inheritance (French: Héritage), while the Reversed keyword is Family Members/Relatives (French: Parents). The reversed keyword has linkage to the upright keyword as it is generally family members who inherit from the deceased. Among the Etteilla School's divinatory synonyms for the reversed 5 of Cups are words relating to various specific degrees** of family relationship: father, mother, brother, sister, uncle, aunt, cousin (Male) and cousin (Female). **Note: In his book, _Le Tarot Égyptien_, Elie Alta, commenting on the Etteilla card, reminds us that the best known way of inheriting is based on degree of familial relationship to the deceased. The Flowers 5 of Cups seems to illustrate the Etteilla reversed card meaning of Family Members/Relatives. Perhaps the two girls depicted in the card are sisters or cousins. It's interesting that the two girls are comparing themselves against each other. Family members have similarities yet differences; hence comparison and rivalry may occur. Friendly or unfriendly rivalry is something often seen between siblings (and, to a lesser degree, between cousins). A short interlude on trying to relate it to the RWS: In his _Pictorial Key to the Tarot_, Waite says of the 5 of Cups Upright: "It is a card of loss, but something remains over; three (cups) have been taken, but two are left; it is a card of inheritance, patrimony, transmission, but not corresponding to expectations; with some interpreters it is a card of marriage, but not without bitterness or frustration." Reversed: "News, alliances, affinity, consanguinity, ancestry, return, false projects." The Golden Dawn meanings for the 5 of Cups as given in its manuscript Book 'T' are: "Death or end of pleasures. Disappointment. Sorrow and loss in those things from which pleasure is expected. ..... " I'm curious as to what source this Death, Sorrow and Loss meaning derives from. Is it a logical extension of Etteilla's upright meaning, that there can't be a legacy/inheritance unless someone has died? The RWS 5 of Cards seems to illustrate the Death/Sorrow meaning as well as Family Members (the mourner and the two cups left standing). Stretching things a bit, the three fallen cups can represent the deceased and what is gone after his death, while the two remaining cups represent his material estate that goes to the surviving family members.

Rusty Neon	24 May 2003
I've just commented on the 5 of Cups (above) a few minutes ago, now onto the 3 of Swords ... Quote: Originally posted by firemaiden There are also some cards where the LWB makes sense to me, but the mood of the card jars with the it: for example the Three of Swords shows three Convolvulus blooms. A bright blond fairy is peering laughingly into the depth of one bloom. The LWB says: Three: Convolvulus In the language of flowers: lack of interest and trust. Separation, breakdown, scattering, delay, dislike, oppostion, retreat, personality conflict, disaproval, imprisonment. [/url] The Flower deck's LWB divinatory meanings for the 3 of Swords are consistent with the upright 3 of Swords Etteilla keywords and synonyms. The Flower deck seems to especially bring out the following Etteilla synonyms: disdain, hate, incompatibility, opposition, insociability, misanthropy, separation, division, rupture, antipathy. I don't have the Flower deck; however, its 3 of Swords would seem to be quite a disturbing card. It's almost as if the antipathy is present to such a strong extent that the bright blonde fairy is wishing the worst for someone, perhaps casting a spell or hex to harm his/her (or someone else's) enemy or rival.

firemaiden	24 May 2003
Aha! Rusty Neon! Thank you for taking the time to share this with us. Most enlightening. So it seems that it behooves us all to study the meanings of the Etteila, is that right, if we want to understand the pre-waite, continental tradition? This is all new to me! And I suppose to many!

Cerulean	24 May 2003
Ah, I'm glad Rusty Neon read the initial post more closely than I did. I just thought Firemaiden was noting a buying point when she said 'differs from RWS." I never associate RWS style in meanings from Lo Scarabeo decks, unless it is specifically in the marketing information. The flower choices in this tarot seemed somewhat Victorian to me, but this may be wrong---incidently, the King of Swords has a meaning that is not Victorian at all. Thanks Rusty Neon for noting to buyers about differences in how Lo Scarabeo explains their meanings. I thought most of the buyers here had read or thought of this. Incidently, if one takes the LWB as a starting point and decides that the flower assignments work or do not work, I'm interested in knowing. For me, it's a starting point, but others might want a system that works with their specific flower references or choices. I've started a related thread trying to list different tarots with many floral decorations. The list has the name of the person who suggested it, because not all the tarots out there have their decorations discussed in English or discussed at all. Best wishes, Mari H.

firemaiden	11 Jun 2003
I have been using this deck quite a bit recently. It is really growing on me. I just adore laying out a spread and seeing all the little flowers and fairies. Rusty Neon helped me to see that there is a sense to the meanings, and the children all have so much personality. Today I tried Kaz's I ching spread, the Ace of Swords turned up. It is really wonderful ace of swords - a Magnolia. The center of the magnolia is the flower spirit's white dress. She has her hands to her mouth as in surprise. My first thought is - she has seen something amazing. We do not see what she sees (I think she is seeing a big Sword suspended in the air) but we see her reaction. These cards tickle and delight me. The LWB says "In the language of flowers: lost love, estrangement. Excess, frenzy, fury, battle, separation, difficult start, decay. This is not how I think of the Ace of Swords, but perhaps it could be the normal Ace of swords reversed???

The Spirit of Flowers - Antonella Castelli thread was originally posted on 23 May 2003 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.