New Vision Tarot (LS)

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 28 Jun 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Kissa	28 Jun 2003
Hello, does anybody own this new tarot deck already? how do you like it? it is available on alida and will be realeased in august by llewellyn if i understood correctly. i find the concept very original (taking the traditional pictures of the rider waite smith deck and showing what they would look like if watched from behind, that is from a 180 degrees angle view). not quite clear? well, have a look at this and you will understand: http://www.alidastore.com/indexen.html . the deck is listed in the "new releases" section under its italian name (tarocchi della nuova visione) and under its english name as well. what you think? kissa

Little Baron	28 Jun 2003
Thanks for the link. That really is an interesting idea! I really look forward to seeing the rest of the deck. Do you have any links for other card samples? This is interesting for a thread discussion - How do people feel (RWS readers especially), about somebody guessing what was happening in the other angle and what would have been seeing? Does anybody know how the artist came to these decisions? Even though there would be an obvious benefit from our viewing from a different angle, would anybody feel they were losing out somewhat from not seeing from the original viewpoint? Really like the deck though - the chariot and fool. Can't wait to see what is on the other side of the 3 of swords (hopefully not just more sky). Would love to see the angle on the 5 of Pentacles (would we be looking from inside the church?). Who is the opposition on 7 of wands, what else lurks in the grounds with the two figures of the 6 of cups (that would be interesting), where have the 6 of swords been as apose to where they are going, what is the woman in the 8 of swords walking into next, do we finally get a chance to see behind the high priestesses curtain??? Even though this may not be an obvious reading deck, the new angle is very exciting, even just to get your ideas and intuition flowing. Best wishes Yaboot

Rusty Neon	14 Jul 2003
Based on first impressions, this is a deck I'll be resisting from purchasing. The concept is intriguing, but my quibble with the deck is that the new visions are those of artists who (unless I'm mistaken) have no training in or sense for the metaphysical/esoteric groundings of Waite/Smith's deck. The scans that I've seen of this deck on tarotpassages confirm, IMHO, that the new vision consists of haphazard novelty rather than substance. http://www.tarotpassages.com/newvision-as.htm http://www.tarotpassages.com/NewVision.htm In contrast, the new vision afforded by the added details of the Jodorowsky Camoin Tarot de Marseille deck over the Conver TdM deck has some metaphysical/esoteric grounding.

oceanpoetry	14 Jul 2003
Rusty Neon, That is exactly why I lost interest in this deck...I think it detracts from the RW deck. For example the Magician card depicts a monkey behind the table, and represents the Magician as a charlatan. This really takes away from the meaning of the card for me. I would rather leave the alternative perspective to my imagination.

Rusty Neon	14 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by oceanpoetry Rusty Neon, That is exactly why I lost interest in this deck...I think it detracts from the RW deck. For example the Magician card depicts a monkey behind the table, and represents the Magician as a charlatan. This really takes away from the meaning of the card for me. I would rather leave the alternative perspective to my imagination. I agree that the New Vision Magician card really takes away from Waite's conception of the Magician card. While in some pre-20th century decks, the Magician was in fact portrayed as a charlatan, Waite's concept of the Magician was NOT that of a charlatan. This illustrates the New Vision artists' lack of knowledge of the metaphysical basis of the Waite's (and Smith's) conception of the Waite/Smith deck. At least, the New Vision Magician card shows some knowledge of some tarot concepts (albeit not Waite's). As misleading as it is, sadly it may be the most "profound" :) 'new vision' in the whole deck. On the other hand, what's up with the other cards, e.g., the angel in the New Vision 8 of Wands?

Little Baron	15 Jul 2003
I agree with you 100%. I am just curious, I suppose, and think that looking from that angle may help me think about what I consider to be going on around the original drawings/situations. I don't see this as a reading deck, just as somebody elses perspective. With no disrespect to the artists, for me, it is a just a lighthearted twist. Does that make sense? Best wishes Yaboot

wavebreaker	15 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Yaboot001 I don't see this as a reading deck, just as somebody elses perspective. With no disrespect to the artists, for me, it is a just a lighthearted twist. Does that make sense? Yup, it does, because that's exactly how I see it... ;) I think it's an interesting way to look at the RWS, but I wouldn't use it to read with, because I think it is "filling in too much", so to speak. I prefer to fill in the blanks myself instead of having someone else do that for me.

Faerie Lin	15 Jul 2003
I about fell out of my chair laughing when I reached this part of that second link... "...the Devil's big, hairy gluteus maximus is hellacious..."

littlegreen	15 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Rusty Neon In contrast, the new vision afforded by the added details of the Jodorowsky Camoin Tarot de Marseille deck over the Conver TdM deck has some metaphysical/esoteric grounding. Hi there Kissa, I have this one on order and am looking forward to it very much (though I have to say, more from a graphic novelist interest - angle). I got De Angelis' lovely re-coloured/re-drawn RWS ("The Universal Tarot" - NOT Universal Waite) - and love the artwork. Haven't even tried reading with it yet , as it is still too fresh and distracting! About the quote above - Wow! This is SO interesting.! I keep finding ppl - including one of my closest friends - who react q strongly (usually negatively) to newer/esp re-designed RWS / "alterations" on a RWS card - who are fans of the much older packs! I also know many ppl who are well-up for VERY new concepts who really dislike the primary-colour only/very old (eg Visconti/Marseilles etcetc). This is a real passion! It just goes to show - different strokes for different folks..neither party is right/more ignorant/more educated. It's whatever does it for you (and helps you help others) - could be the oldest pack in the world, so faded you can hardly see it; could be the one you made at home. Kissa, let me know when you get it/ start using it, so we can maybe share ideas/feelings? lg

Rusty Neon	15 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by littlegreen About the quote above - Wow! This is SO interesting.! I keep finding ppl - including one of my closest friends - who react q strongly (usually negatively) to newer/esp re-designed RWS / "alterations" on a RWS card - who are fans of the much older packs! I also know many ppl who are well-up for VERY new concepts who really dislike the primary-colour only/very old (eg Visconti/Marseilles etcetc). In my case, I like Marseille decks, the Rider-Waite, the Thoth, and yes, many of the new concept decks.

littlegreen	15 Jul 2003
Nice one! It's good to meet someone with a foot in both camps. lg

Rusty Neon	15 Jul 2003
Actually, though, I have _both_ feet in both camps. :)

Solandia	17 Jul 2003
Images and a review are now also available on Aeclectic Tarot... http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/new-vision/ ~ Solandia

Silverlotus	17 Jul 2003
I don't really like the image on the Eight of Chalices. It seems to me to be totally changing the meaning of the card. In the RWS, I see the man as leaving behind something precious to journey into the unknown for knowledge and experience. In the New Vision, it looks like the cups are a fence, blocking him off from the celebrating city. And the man appears more like a mountain man, someone who has chosen to live apart from society, not to seek knowledge, but because he is a social outcast. Again, the fence of cups seems to reinforce this. And the fireworks over the city, I'm not sure what to make of that.

Ravenswing	18 Jul 2003
well... I've ordered this one. From the few images that I've seen, it appears that the cards are not only a view from the other side, but also a potential upright reversal. It seems that most everyone has seen this. I think what I may try is to blend the RWS and this one together and see how it reads. Hopefully they're the same size... fly well Ravenswing

Rusty Neon	18 Jul 2003
ravenswing ... Your idea about blending the two decks so that the RWS deck cards are read as uprights and the New Vision are read as reversals sounds like an interesting use for the New Vision. Keep us posted on how it works !

Le_Corsair	18 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by littlegreen I have this one on order and am looking forward to it very much (though I have to say, more from a graphic novelist interest - angle). I got De Angelis' lovely re-coloured/re-drawn RWS ("The Universal Tarot" - NOT Universal Waite) - and love the artwork. Haven't even tried reading with it yet , as it is still too fresh and distracting! lg littlegreen, I too have the de Angelis Universal Tarot, and this new deck appears to be a grand companion to it, since the artwork is very similar, and they are both Lo Scarabeo decks. If they are the same size and back design, I would be tempted to mix and/or substitute cards, so that my favored viewpoint is shown. I posted a thread a while back that you might want to view: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15598 It concerned mixing a great number of decks for the ultimate in pure chance reading. This set of two decks, the Universal and the New Vision, would be good for this concept on a smaller scale. It would have been interesting to see a poll posted about this deck; are you offended by it, or amused? For me: amused! I'll put it on my wish list. Bob :THERM

Cerulean	18 Jul 2003
...especially since the colors in the front images of the New Vision seem quite different than the Angelis palette of colors.

Little Baron	18 Jul 2003
Yes, I like the idea of blending the two decks and had thought about it before - would be like having four different angles of the same card. It is a shame, in my opinion, that the colours do not match the original Waite or Universal. There are points where the illustrations can look as if they are not based on the RWS because of the slight difference in style. Still wanna get it though! Yaboot

MystiqueMoonlight	20 Jul 2003
I have never used a RW deck, but I was wondering what those of you who have think of the New Vision deck? http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/new-vision/index.html It appears to be quite an interesting perspective from three lateral thinking people. I think an interesting use for this deck would be as a reversal deck. One could add them to the RW deck rather than have reversed cards. Of course that would mean having a deck of 156 cards so carrying them around might be a bit tricky.

WolfSpirit	20 Jul 2003
I think the idea for this deck is great and I am curious what they did with all the cards, but I don't know if I would want to use this decks for readings though; after all, it is someone else's vision on the card, not your own.

Cerulean	20 Jul 2003
because the designers of this deck are twins. I guess that their designs are similar enough that you cannot tell it is two different people. I don't know that it makes any more of a difference--it's one of those additional novelties about the deck. Mari H.

MystiqueMoonlight	20 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by WolfSpirit but I don't know if I would want to use this decks for readings though; after all, it is someone else's vision on the card, not your own. But does that not go without saying about any Tarot deck? :)

oceanpoetry	21 Jul 2003
It's different with this deck, IMO, because it is trying to complete a picture that I prefer to create with the imagination. Same reason I don't like music videos very much, because it detracts from the personalized meaning I have a given a song.

MystiqueMoonlight	21 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by oceanpoetry It's different with this deck, IMO, because it is trying to complete a picture that I prefer to create with the imagination.... }) Yes but doesn't illustrated pips do that? :smoker:

oceanpoetry	21 Jul 2003
if I like the art work, it will enhance my imagination rather than diminish it. The decks I like have symbols that serve as a springboard. Maybe it comes down to just plain not liking the artist's interpretation for this RW-deck. It seems like a novelty interpretation, and that's it. MystiqueMoonlight, don't let me discourage you from getting this deck, enjoy! :D

MystiqueMoonlight	21 Jul 2003
I'm sorry Oceanpoetry I was not trying to be difficult :) I was just wondering what ur thoughts were heading to.....sometimes my inquisitive mind gets the better of me so I hope ur not offended. I'm not getting this deck....I was never drawn to RW deck :) :smoker:

WolfSpirit	21 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by MystiqueMoonlight But does that not go without saying about any Tarot deck? :) Yep, but in this case it is different as I learnt to read with the rws and developed my own connection with the cards. I never use it now, but I would still be interested to see what they made of it - but it will be different from my own experiences no doubt.

MystiqueMoonlight	21 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by WolfSpirit Yep, but in this case it is different as I learnt to read with the rws and developed my own connection with the cards. I never use it now, but I would still be interested to see what they made of it - but it will be different from my own experiences no doubt. Gotcha ;) :smoker:

littlegreen	21 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Kissa Hello, does anybody own this new tarot deck already? how do you like it? kissa Dear Kissa. Got it. If your instinct was to go get it, GET IT! Do not let anyone put you off. (v pleased here) ;-p

Jeannette	01 Aug 2003
We just received word that the 3rd quarter Lo Scarabeo titles, including the New Vision Tarot, arrived at the North American distributor's offices yesterday (Thursday, 31 July). So if you're in the U.S. or Canada and have been waiting for this deck, you may not have to wait much longer. Since we're only a geographic hop-skip-jump from the distributor's, and we've prepaid for our order, we expect to receive our supply no later than Monday. Anyone who preordered this title through us should have received, or should be receiving soon, the broadcast email with the details. If you think you preordered this title through Tarot Garden, but you don't receive the informational email by tonight, drop me a line this weekend at jkr@tarotgarden.com to let me know. -- Jeannette http://www.tarotgarden.com NOTE: Because it appears to be relevant to multiple ongoing discussions on this forum, this information has also been cross-posted on the following thread: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15234

The New Vision Tarot (LS) thread was originally posted on 28 Jun 2003 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.