ahh done it again - Ancient Italian tarot

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 21 Jul 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Emily	21 Jul 2003
Gone and done it again, Wandered into one of the Marseille type threads and starting having a look around - I've not been overkeen on just pip type decks but I have to say I've just followed a link from Umbrae and seen the Ancient Italian tarot from Lo Scarabeo, its just blown me away with its beauty - I've seen a total of 6 cards and I felt that little thrill when you know you've found a deck that you can work with, the pips are regal, very prettily coloured, and old looking. I like the numbering of the cards, from the cards I could see there wasn't anything I didn't like, the muted colours really give a different look to any of my other decks - I can't wait to see them in the flesh, I know that little flaws and mistakes have been left. I know I'm sort of gushing lol but its not often I get bowled over by a type of deck that I previously didn't like :) Anyone else use this deck, what do you think of it, will I be able to make the transition from Rider Waite and Thoth clones?

MystiqueMoonlight	21 Jul 2003
Good choice I think you can make that transition, it depends on how ou use the illustrated type decks. Do you "read" the cards or rely heavily on the illustrated minors? :smoker:

Myrrha	21 Jul 2003
That is a lovely deck, Emily. It is on my wish list as well! Let us all know what it is like when you get it. Myrrha

Cerulean	21 Jul 2003
Hardcover: 128 pages ; Dimensions (in inches): 0.59 x 11.32 x 9.43 Publisher: Gramercy; (August 2001) ISBN: 0517163985 Average Customer Review: Based on 1 review. Write a review. $14.99 Amazon.com Sales Rank: 740,645 My review: Good with Anc. Italian Tarots (Serravalle Sessia 1880), May 29, 2003 Reviewer: An Amazon.com Customer from Santa Clara, CA USA Fans of Italian Marseilles-style deck might find this a pretty companion to the Lo Scarabeo Ancient Italian Tarots. All the cards are reproduced in a larger format. The details and old-style printing are quite rich. For me, the slight smudges and misprint on some of the Courts and World add to the period feel. Some of the detail is quite delicate. Jonathan Dee writes that his descriptions would be suitable for any deck. However I like how the feel of these Italian cards and text descriptions work together. This is a very pretty book and is printed quite well. If you are new to Marseilles-style decks, like Italian style art and are interested in using such a deck for reading games, I'd suggest the Ancient Italian Tarots by Lo Scarabeo: it says Cartiera Italian in Serravalle Sesia 1880. The LS Classical Tarot is similar and you can use this book with that deck too. But the pastel colors and keywords on the side of the card can be slightly distracting after awhile. This book and the Ancient Italian deck as a 'gift set' to the art collector of tarot deck could be a refreshing change. I bought it on a vacation trip. Together, I found the designs and book quite relaxing and fun.

Rusty Neon	21 Jul 2003
For some ideas on how to read non fully illustrated pip cards, check out the following threads. They deal with the Grimaud Tarot de Marseille but much of it may be transferrable to the LS Ancient Italian. http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13467 http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1614

Emily	22 Jul 2003
I've just checked my order and hopefully the deck will be with me tomorrow :) - I've found some other websites with a few more cards shown, The Moon, and Hanged Man were a couple, the decks seems so old fashioned. Hi MystiqueMoonlight, I have been using the illustrated Minors but I really feel the need to move on, the numerology of the cards has started to interest me, think it started with the Thoth but I wanted a 'classic' deck and the Ancient Italian has really got me lol Those links look interesting Rusty Neon, thanks Thanks for your comments ppl, I can't wait to start to get to know these cards :)

Emily	22 Jul 2003
Hi Mari, There's a book too? That I didn't know lol - Now I can feel a book hunt coming on because I don't remember seeing at Amazon UK, Thanks :)

Emily	23 Jul 2003
The Ancient Italian tarot did come this morning in first post, don't think I've ever took delivery of a deck so quickly before. My little boy, 6 years old, watched me open them with great interest then told me they were very pretty and could we play snap with them lol My first impressions of this deck are very favourable, I think I've seen so many Marseille type decks that the images were familiar, there were no nasty surprises, the card stock is very good, slim but strong and they are a cream colour. The colours are more muted than they appear in some on the online scans, bleed overs and little paint splatters have been left, not affecting the beauty of the deck at all but adding to the overall feel of oldness. The Minors are pretty, no roman numerals just numbers on them and Majors are in italian, with roman numerals and numbers. The backs are a green intertwined leaf and flower pattern, I've seen a version of this deck that has a red patterned back. I've wanted a marseille's type/clone? deck for a while and was quite surprised when this one hit me as hard as it did, I do think I will be able to work with it but seeing all the unillustrated Minors has made me feel quite the newbie again lol - I'm looking forward to working with this deck :)

Cerulean	23 Jul 2003
Do you have problems with shipments from Amazon in the U.S.? It appears readily available in the U.S. site, hopefully shipping won't be a problem. I thought it was worthwhile, because the book's illustrations have larger versions of the cards and somehow enhances the book's instructions. It's not necessary for your enjoyment of the Ancient Italian--but I just found it really really nice when I found it on vacation and also an Ancient Italian deck as well. We were looking at old Catholic missions built around the 1700s in California, but they had imported Italian figurines in a later century in the Monterey mission...and so somehow all these things seemed appropriate to the time and feeling... Kinda magical by association, Mari H.

Emily	24 Jul 2003
Hi Mari, thanks :) Yes I found the book on Amazon UK, readily available but delivery takes around 8 days, I go away on Saturday for the week so didn't want to order it then not be here to take delivery but as soon as I come back I'm going to order it. I was lucky I got the deck as I did, it was the last one, well according to the Amazon website lol

Khatruman	24 Jul 2003
A got a reccommendation on this deck from Umbrae also, and I haven't regretted it. I have wanted to study pre-1900 tarot, and have been left cold by the Marseilles decks. The woodcut imagery just did not appeal to me. I am very pleased with this deck. I think it is important for a serious tarotist to own and study Rider-Waite, Thoth, and Marseilles era decks. I do not think it is the same as the RWS and Thoth, but nevertheless it is good to look at tarot minus Waite's and Crowley's infusions of mysticism and occultism. I think you made a fantastic choice, Emily!!!

Emily	25 Jul 2003
Thanks Khatruman, I've been using this deck, did the new deck spread with it, very favourable - I do keep getting flashes of Rider Waite when using the Minors but I am seeing the cups, swords etc too. They are very uncluttered, makes you really think about the cards and where they are in the spread. I am enjoying working with them, the colours are just right, the expressions on the faces are amazing. But I know what you mean about the woodcut imagery, it didn't do anything for me either, thats why its took me so long to get a marseille type deck, I have the 1JJ Swiss and I've never worked with it because I didn't like the style of cards. I am very pleased I took the plunge and got this deck :)

Voodoo_Shaman	31 Jul 2003
I love the Ancient Italian Tarots, but I do not read with it because all my life, 'or actually the 11 years I have been reading Tarots'. I have used RW clones or Thoth clones. So I am used to the pips having the images. Was wondering, I was reading through the thread, and a book was mentioned but no title. It probably was but I must have missed it, can someone please post the title. Another thing I also purchased along with the Ancient Italian Tarots the Ancient Minchiate Etruria, although not traditioal tarot and with 97 cards, that one blew my mind as well. If there is a forum with the Minchiate, can some one be as kind, as to direct me there. Thank yoiu

baba-prague	31 Jul 2003
Oh - someone keen on the Minchiate! Yes, I have this deck and the Brian Williams version. I'd love an opportunity to talk more about both (I'm Irish, so you could say I always love an opportunity to talk more ;-) ). Have you tried reading with it? The Brian Williams Minchiate is the inspiration that made us put Prudence into our deck - she is hidden but she is there. There is a thread that was going on a while ago - I'll try to find it. There are certainly other people around who are interested in these decks.

Myrrha	31 Jul 2003
Hi Voodoo Shaman I like the Minchiate very much as well. The Ancient Minchiate Etruria works better for me for reading because of the general feeling of the deck, although I do like some of the details Brian Williams put into his version, such as some of the faces on the coins having horns, the eels or serpents that come out of the ace of cups, the ball-thing in the six of swords being more like a moon and less like a disco-ball. There is a thread over in the historical decks section where Macavity shared his idea for a spread that would use each of the different kinds of cards in the deck. I am becoming quite interested in Prudence lately, there is a wonderful version in the Etteilla deck, glad to hear she is in the Tarot of Prague and I am headed over there now to look for her! Myrrha

Voodoo_Shaman	31 Jul 2003
I must be honest the Brian William’s Minchiate does not do it for me at all, I saw some of the photos at “Wicce” and it is very nice, but did not grab me as did the original Ancient Minchiate. But I must admit, I guess, the BW Minchiate is where I can get the book for the Minchiate. “I really love bold colored tarots, and those that have a history, artsy or religious feel to them. Gimmick tarots, just do not do it for me. Please do not think for a moment I am disrespecting anyone's taste. “Much respect for all!!” This is my personal opinion. The Etteilla deck, I looked but could not find any “1” reference to them, can you give me the proper name. I love the Ancient Minchiate, but again I am not usto reading with seamless pip cards. “Am I saying that correct?” Lol, I tried giving a reading with them to a friend, and had to top to remember it responded to in terms of it’s RWS. Then we add the other interesting cards such as the 12 astrological. “I am astrologically illiterate. And of course the other beautiful cards that work well. I will probably have to someday get the BW Minchiate only for the book, because i do love my Minchiate. Prudence Rules, she should be in every Tarot, and I can not waite to have My TAROT OF PRAGUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Voodoo Shaman

Myrrha	01 Aug 2003
The Etteilla was the first tarot deck that was marketed as a cartomancy deck. It is very different from a regular tarot deck, some of the images are different, they have keywords on both sides, and the given meanings lend themselves to predictive readings. Felicity provided a wonderful link on the history of the deck and its designer: http://www.villarevak.org/bio/etteilla_1.html You can see all the cards of the 1788 Etteilla here. This tarotist has the "Prudence" card corresponding to the Hanged Man. http://www.tarot.com/about-tarot/decks/browsedecks.php?newdeck=9 There is a new Lo Scarabeo deck called the Book of Thoth Etteilla which is a reproduction of a nineteenth century Etteilla style deck. http://www.tarotpassages.com/EtteillaBookThoth.htm Myrrha

Emily	27 Aug 2003
Just thought I would add onto this thread instead of starting a new one. The book recommended by Mari came this morning 'Tarot - An Illustrated Guide' by Jonathan Dee. I've just spent a couple of hours going through it - its a very impressive read, clear and to the point. I actually ordered the cheaper paperback version at £3.99 instead of the hardcover because I couldn't find any reviews of this book other than what Mari had posted - This book gives better information than some of my other 'expensive' tarot books. Slight introduction into tarot card history, mainly focuses on interpretations, putting the cards together - all the Aces together on one page etc so you can compare, numerology, timing with the cards, combinations, reversed meanings, and 10 assorted spreads, not the celtic cross, fully illustrated throughout with the Ancient Italian, full colour glossy paper. Its 128 pages long, and its a large slim book. I'm really glad Mari pointed this book out to me, I wouldn't have found it otherwise. :) Edited to add:- Since buying the Ancient Italian, I also bought the Classical Tarot around 2 weeks ago. These are the only decks I've used now in the month since I first bought the Ancient Italian. After using the Universal Waite and Thoth the transition to pip cards was easier than I thought it was going to be. It does make you work harder when you just see a pip card but its worth the effort, you notice how many sword or cups etc there are in the reading, or what cards will combine to make the spread stonger, the positions of the cards and the pips are so pretty. I feel like I've done a complete turn-around, I never thought I would find pip cards or even a Marseilles type deck that I could work with but these Soprafino decks are a joy to use. And the book is a gem too. :)

The ahh done it again - Ancient Italian tarot thread was originally posted on 21 Jul 2003 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.