Blown away by Camoin!

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 12 Jul 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Belladonna	12 Jul 2003
My first Tarot de Marseilles (the Camoin restored version) arrived yesterday and I am about to explode! It's beautiful! Stunning! Startling! Mysterious and captivating. I feel like a beginner again. I feel as though I know nothing. It is the craziest, wildest deck I've ever seen! I feel like I'm at some kind of macabre mardi gras festival when I look at it. I feel like I'm at the brink of another universe, a doorway to the flip side. I know I'm rambling, I know I've gone over the edge, but I don't care, I don't care, I don't care!!! Why has nobody told me about this before? How has this remained the best kept secret in the world of Tarot for so long? Where do I begin? I have about a million and 1 questions about this deck. (The egg! I saw the egg, Diana!) Like, why is the Denier suit without roman numerals? And why is the Valet de Deniers the only one with his name written along the long side of the card? Why is the Reyne de Bastons the only one with an "s" in the word Baton? And what's with the little lines beside the names of the court cards and some of the Trumps-like: lllll LAMOUREUX llllll? Even the drawings are so weird (in a good way!) it's freaking me out! Then there are all these little dots everywhere...like on the left wheel of LE CHARIOT, not to mention the one dot after the words LE CHARIOT. Come on, please, somebody help me out. I'm dangerously close to losing it!

Demonesse	12 Jul 2003
LOL - Belladonna, I am not a Marseilles fan but I couldn't help smiling at your wonderful enthusiasm! I hope you grow to love your Camoin even more :) Diana, where are you?? This thread is screaming for a reply from you! })

Mimers	12 Jul 2003
Belladonna, You finally got it! I felt the same way when I got mine. You can go to the history section and get a lot of answers to your questions. jmd has even set up a table of contents so it will be east to find the threads for each card. Feel free to revive any one of them! You can help us revive the thread studying the minors. We discovered so much about the 'unillustrated' PIPs there. I am so glad you are enjoying your new deck. Mimers

firemaiden	12 Jul 2003
I felt the same way when I got this deck too. You put this so well! a mardi gras festival! Aren't the facial expressoins amazing? so human, so full of character? And the eye colors! Don't the people just pop out of the cards?

Le_Corsair	12 Jul 2003
about the Fournier version of the TDM; I've contemplated getting the Camoin deck, and have bookmarked the website, but there's another thread current about lengthy deliveries/problems with delivery, so I am kind of leery of buying it. I may go with the Hadar, instead, when it comes out. Bob :THERM

Belladonna	12 Jul 2003
Le Corsair, I just wanted to say that, in actuality, I received my deck within 2 weeks. I was worried because the payment confirmation e-mail I got from shoppers@UK.worldplay said that I would receive an e-mail from the Camoin House informing me about the delivery of the deck. I never got an e-mail from them, but they were very prompt with the delivery afterall.

jmd	12 Jul 2003
Great news, this thread :) !!!

Ross G Caldwell	13 Jul 2003
I too love the Camoin Marseilles. The colours are vibrant, the figures alive. I can truly say that I did not appreciate the potential beauty of the TdM until I got this item. Let's say the deck has character. I ordered mine on-line when I was living in California, and I got it faster than I expected - within two weeks IIRC. Ross

Trogon	13 Jul 2003
I must resist! I am an RWS person... I am an RWS person... aaarrrgggghhh... :joke: I have to admit, Belladonna, your enthusiasm is making me re-think my... er... thoughts on the Tarot of Marseilles! In any case, congratulations on your new arrival! I am so very glad that you are so thrilled with this deck... Where can I see some images? I didn't find this on A.T.'s list of decks, nor at Tarot Garden...

Le_Corsair	13 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Trogon I must resist! I am an RWS person... I am an RWS person... aaarrrgggghhh... :joke: I have to admit, Belladonna, your enthusiasm is making me re-think my... er... thoughts on the Tarot of Marseilles! In any case, congratulations on your new arrival! I am so very glad that you are so thrilled with this deck... Where can I see some images? I didn't find this on A.T.'s list of decks, nor at Tarot Garden... Here is the url for the card images: http://www.philippe-camoin.com/tarot_en/regarder_tmt/voir_tmt.asp Nice deck! Bob :THERM

Belladonna	13 Jul 2003
Trogon, what do you mean you are an RWS person? I, too, have the RWS deck and, unlike some people, I love it! I appreciate the beauty, symbolism and inherent value of this deck as well as some modelled after it such as the Morgan Greer. But to limit yourself... well that's like saying you won't enjoy a good lasagna because you're a pizza person! Just teasing! Lot's of love!

Rusty Neon	13 Jul 2003
I love the colours and vibrancy of the Jodo Camoin. When I tire of the relatively drabber 1760 Conver Heron or the Marteau, I pull out the Jodo Camoin and zap! It's fun to compare the hypothesized restored colours of the Jodo Camoin against the Heron. As for the eyes of the figures in the cards, I feel like in the various B movies, where there are real eyes behind the paintings in the galleries. :) My only quibble with the Jodo Camoin deck are the added (and not really 'restored') details to the cards, such as the exit door at the bottom of the tower in the Tower card and the egg in the Papesse card, etc. I find those very distracting when I know that the 1760 Conver in the National Library in Paris, on which the Jodo Camoin is based, doesn't have them. However, don't let that stop you from getting the Jodo Camoin. You'll just need to get a Heron deck too. :) I put up with those added details (which I knew about before my purchase), since I know that the mission of Jodorowsky and Camoin in creating this deck was precisely so they could add details such as those, and that this beautiful, colourful, dynamic, energetic deck would not have existed if not for that mission.

Moongold	13 Jul 2003
Hey Belladonna, Your enthusiasm is wonderful :). Now tell me this .....what do the cards feel like? Are they sensuous and cool to the touch? Are they so smooth they slip through your hands, or do they lightly adhere to the warmth of your touch? I'm serious! This is half of my pleasure with Tarot decks. Some of them are an overall sensory experience....just like some books. The scent of of a new book can be heavenly. Thanks for the link to the images, Le_Corsair. The expressions on the faces are very evocative, and are one of the immediately distinguishing characteristics of this deck it seems. Many blessings

Belladonna	14 Jul 2003
Actually, Moongold, they are a joy to hold! They fit perfectly in my hands, unlike my other decks which all seem too large. They are shaped kind of long and narrow, smooth and cool, but not too slippery. I'm still a little tentative with them, but we're getting to know each other slowly!

jmd	14 Jul 2003
I know I have given this a couple of times, but, as one of my few reviews (written about two years ago), I thought I deserved to give it a link in this thread :). Personally, I rate this deck as an absolute five star - and I should add that there are only three decks I would personally give this rating to, the criteria being that it must have 78 cards, be a Marseilles style, and be either very traditional (like the Conver) or bring something to light (like both the Camoin and the Hadar). Lee has also posted some very interesting comments recently on the Hanged Man of this deck - well worth reading!

Belladonna	15 Jul 2003
Thank you, JMD, for the links. I, personally, have read your review already! It was wonderful. I skimmed through the thread on the Hanged Man, but that's going to require some time. I've been spending most of my time on the forum these days just trying to catch up on some of the threads in the History section on the Marseilles decks. It's a good thing I found you guys!

Hedera	15 Jul 2003
Belladonna, you're the first person who has sounded animated enough about a Marseilles deck to make me consider getting one *now*! I was planning to buy one next time I'd be in France, but since it now seems likely that won't be until 2005, I might cave in and order one soon..... The Camoin looks very interesting and beautiful!

Hedera	15 Jul 2003
Ho hum.... Well, I looked at the site yesterday for the first time, so I did manage to resist a full 24 hours.... ;) I ordered a Camoin, too! :) Now let's hope all the strikes etc (are they still going? I've cancelled my newspaper a couple of weeks ago and still have to get back in the habit of watching tv news) aren't going to delay the delivery..... I think it was the description Belladonna gave of how the cards felt in her hands that pushed me over the edge... Sigh.... Another exiting period of going to the mailbox 20/30 times a day (just to check if the postman didn't make a late delivery ;) ) ahead of me!

MystiqueMoonlight	16 Jul 2003
Ok I have resisted getting this deck for about a week now.....but I have just ordered it :)

Hedera	16 Jul 2003
Gimme five, MM! :D

Cerulean	17 Jul 2003
...to have a deck with wings fly to you! Now are there any TdMs that come on linen style stock rather than the plastic laminate? When I can, I've been upgrading a little at a time to decks without coating and it makes a difference to me for old decks. This sounds like a great discovery to TdM fans. And Belladonna, it was a treasured gift, that's what makes it special. Mari H.

MystiqueMoonlight	17 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Hedera Gimme five, MM! :D OH NO!!!!! They don't take American Express. Now I will have to wait to transfer some dollars into Visa.....

Rusty Neon	17 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Mari_Hoshizaki ...to have a deck with wings fly to you! Now are there any TdMs that come on linen style stock rather than the plastic laminate? When I can, I've been upgrading a little at a time to decks without coating and it makes a difference to me for old decks. This sounds like a great discovery to TdM fans. And Belladonna, it was a treasured gift, that's what makes it special. Mari H. I understand that the Camoin Bicentennial deck (limited edition available on the camoin website) has uncoated paper cards. Not sure, though, whether they're linen style stock; possibly not.

Diana	18 Jul 2003
Oh my. I'm on holiday and have very limited internet time. But this thread was one I had to read. :) Belladonna: I am pleased. Truly truly pleased, I can't tell you how much. Discovering the Marseilles does not prevent you from using and appreciating other decks, but the Tarot of Marseille has a depth and a perspective that one cannot even guess at with the more modern decks. May you have many years of enjoyment with your Camoin. (And one day, when you can afford it, get yourself a Hadar.)

Ross G Caldwell	19 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Mari_Hoshizaki ...to have a deck with wings fly to you! Now are there any TdMs that come on linen style stock rather than the plastic laminate? When I can, I've been upgrading a little at a time to decks without coating and it makes a difference to me for old decks. This sounds like a great discovery to TdM fans. And Belladonna, it was a treasured gift, that's what makes it special. Mari H. Not a Marseille, but the Tarot Flamand (Vanderborre) by Carta Mundi is not laminated, and like you I feel it makes a big difference. There is a certain "life" to uncoated old cards - for modern decks it probably makes no difference, although I would like to see a 1910 Rider Waite or some 19th century decks to get a better perspective. Another aesthetic issue, which might bear on the "vitality" of the designs, is whether the designs were made for the card size, as woodcuts or miniature paintings, or have been photomechanically reduced from larger paintings or drawings. Personally I favour the design at actual size. Unless, of course, the artist is exploring the Tarot "idea" as a genre of art, and makes paintings which were never intended to be reduced and used as cards. Ross

MystiqueMoonlight	19 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Diana (And one day, when you can afford it, get yourself a Hadar.) Where can I see this Hadar? I tried a search on the web but to no avail and you have me intrigued.... :)

MystiqueMoonlight	20 Jul 2003
Actually, now that I have seen the Hadar deck I prefer that to the Camoin. The Camoin is as if they tried too hard to "reinvent" the Marseilles whilst still under the veil of maintaining it's originality. I read all the blurb on the Camoin site about woodblocks etc, but somehow I'm still not fully convinced that some of the additions they have made are necessarily for the better. IMO a lot of the ambiguity has been removed. If I wanted an easy to read, in your face type of deck I'd use a RW :) That's just my opinion :)

catboxer	20 Jul 2003
Everyone who's really into tarot should have a Marseille deck, no matter how many others they own or which is their favorite. And while there might be other versions that some like better than the Jodo Camoin, that's the one that seems to be becoming the new standard. It may not be the Ur-tarot, but the Marseille is still the mother deck. The enthusiasm on this thread is really infectious.

Hedera	21 Jul 2003
MM, where did you manage to find pictures of the Hadar?

Rusty Neon	21 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by MystiqueMoonlight Actually, now that I have seen the Hadar deck I prefer that to the Camoin. The Camoin is as if they tried too hard to "reinvent" the Marseilles whilst still under the veil of maintaining it's originality. I read all the blurb on the Camoin site about woodblocks etc, but somehow I'm still not fully convinced that some of the additions they have made are necessarily for the better. IMO a lot of the ambiguity has been removed. If I wanted an easy to read, in your face type of deck I'd use a RW :) That's just my opinion :) Actually, Hadar ALSO added details above and beyond those that one would see in the Marteau or Conver.

Rusty Neon	21 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by catboxer Everyone who's really into tarot should have a Marseille deck, no matter how many others they own or which is their favorite. And while there might be other versions that some like better than the Jodo Camoin, that's the one that seems to be becoming the new standard. It may not be the Ur-tarot, but the Marseille is still the mother deck. The enthusiasm on this thread is really infectious. The Jodo Camoin and other small circulation TdM decks (such as Hadar, Heron and others) have followings in various circles (including Aeclectic) and among Tarot de Marseille specialist collectors, but for first-time Tarot de Marseille purchasers in French-speaking countries, the Grimaud TdM would probably still be the main seller among TdM decks.

The Blown away by Camoin! thread was originally posted on 12 Jul 2003 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.