Dark, Darker, Darkest Decks

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 10 Jul 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

jog1118	10 Jul 2003
i'm particularly drawn to dark (i hope you people get what i mean) decks. i feel that these decks can give you frank, direct to the point readings. i am not yet familiar with the so many available decks in the market since i just started with tarot last May 2003 here are some decks i consider dark: crowley thoth victoria regina haindl barbara walker Appreciate you guys posting your list of dark decks and why you consider them dark peace!!! :smoker:

Alobar	11 Jul 2003
funny, but i consider those decks relatively 'light'. perspective is a funny thing, no? decks i consider 'dark' (not that i have much use for them, mind you) are H.R Giger's 'Baphomet' deck and the vampire deck (whatever it's called).

Jeannette	11 Jul 2003
The vampire deck is called "The Vampire Tarot." Unless you mean Joseph Vargo's "Gothic Tarot"? (Also dark.) Leilah Wendell's "Gothic Tarot" is pretty dark, too (cemetary photography). Wendell also did the death-centered "Necromantic Tarot." Then there's the Tarocco dell'Orror, if you like your "dark" with a heapin' side o' grotesque humor. Anything by Elisabetta Cassari (Tarocchi di Elisabetta, Solleone Tarot, Future Solleone Tarot) is likely to draw a "thumbs down" from folks who insist on having their decks light-'n-fluffy. And of course, don't forget the H. P. Lovecraft Tarot! I could probably list more, but my "deck brain" is located mainly in my online database, and our website server seems to be offline at the moment, for some reason... -- Jeannette The Tarot Garden

Jeannette	11 Jul 2003
Aha! I just remembered one more: Linda Falorio's "Shadow Tarot." (But it's a good dark.) -- Jeannette The Tarot Garden

Demonesse	11 Jul 2003
Hello there, You can also try looking at these threads below: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13710 http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14211 http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9693 ...the Fantastical (Nathalie Hertz) is also quite dark.

CompassRose	11 Jul 2003
Mage: The Ascension is a nice dark deck. So is the Vertigo Tarot. There is also a certain murkiness to the Tarot of the Origins... all those primitive folk impaled on horns and such... I wouldn't call the Barbara Walker "dark" at all, or the Victoria Regina. The Haindl is possibly unsettling in places. And the Giger is definitely dark.

jog1118	11 Jul 2003
thanks for the links demonesse :smoker:

Blue Override	11 Jul 2003
I'm a certified, black-eyeliner packing, card carrying scarykid, so I must say that dark decks are quite the thing. ;) I own the Giger Baphomet deck, and love it! I haven't read with it yet, but I meditate with it. I don't think I'm going to read for anyone else with it, it's all mine! I'm coveting the Lovecraft tarot, as I'm the world's biggest HP Lovecraft fangirl. My radio DJ name is even one of his characters. The Wendell gothic tarot leaves me cold, as I stated in another thread. I think a gothic photomontage deck would be cool, if it had pictures of kids from the scene in it - not pictures of statuary. The Vargo gothic deck makes my heart pitter patter in a very special way. Stylish, sleek, cool. It's the deck the Vampire tarot wants to be and can't. The Victoria Regina and Crowley/Harris Thoth deck are my regular decks, my everyday use ones, and I don't think of them a bit dark. People tell me the Rohrig also comes off as dark, but I don't see it - and it's another one of my favorites.

MattDouglas	11 Jul 2003
Well, Jog... I have to recommend Black Tarot. While intentionally darkly erotic, there actually is many a subtlety in it that I've found through close examination. Look carefully, it's much more than what it seems. Hope that helps! Matt

MattDouglas	11 Jul 2003
Another "dark" deck is the Bosch Tarot. Sure, it uses lots of bright pretty colors, but remember it's theorizes that Bosch was an alchemist, and it has all the disturbing elements of alchemical symbolism. The 10 of Pentacles in that deck is a good example.

Demonesse	11 Jul 2003
Oh yes, the Bosch is definitely dark! In defense of the Vampire Tarot, I think the artist intended to portray a campy, arty, stylistic gothic setting, not the more serious, brooding art depicted in the Vargo Gothic - take it with a pinch of salt. The Chariot of the Vampire, for example, would fit right into the Halloween Tarot. Sort of like going Buffy instead of the Exorcist. :D Another dark deck in the making is Londa Marks' Alchemist Tarot, definitely on my lust list. I noticed one of the cards was named after Asmodeus, of all beings... http://www.londaart.com/gallery.htm

C.N.	11 Jul 2003
You should take a look at the orther decks by Londa Marks, Londa Tarot & Crow's Magick Tarot, if you like goth feeling decks. Crow's Magick has dark colors but the motif ot the cards I have seen doesn't look dark. The people on Londa Tarot look like goths even if they doesn't dress that way.

WolfSpirit	13 Jul 2003
I like the drogi deck: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13916&highlight=drogi It is not that trendy gothic kind of dark. I think it is beautiful, some pictures look deceptively simple.

Shade	14 Jul 2003
The Fantastical Tarot is pretty dark without being overly macabre or morbid. Some consider my favorite deck the Secret Tarots to be dark but I just don't see it. From what I've seen of the Lovecraft Traot that wins the sash and roses for the worlds darkest deck, even more messed up than the Giger in my opinion. If you're into cute dark decks there's the Halloween Tarot and the Phantasmagoric Theater tarot. Since the Thoth was mentioned I wanted to bring something up. At the new age bookstore I work at I often have customers tell me they find THe Thoth to be too dark to work with and I just don't see it. I don't think it has particularly more unfriendly looking cards than the Rider Waite. So I wonder if people are associating the product with it's designer Aleister Crowley and getting the Heeie Jeebies from that angle. And a question for Lovecraft's fangirl... if I wanted to start out reading Lovecraft's work what is a good kicking off point? I've been a lottle disoriented every time I tried to find a starting point.

Umbrae	14 Jul 2003
Geeze, I gave away my Lovecraft because it was not Dark Enough. Giger’s dark, but has a sci-fi feel, and a majors only. Gothic is dark with a Goth feel, depends on what you want.

Little Baron	14 Jul 2003
Just browsing through the web and came across what I am imagining is an unpublished gallery of major cards. It's funny how we all interpret 'dark' in different ways. With that in mind, erm, I think you better check this one out!!! The artist is David Aronson. I could not find much more information about him but I think the images, as in all good tarot decks, speak for themselves. 'The World' is an absolutely beautiful version, in my opinion, but the 'Death' card has a feel all of its own - not one I would feel comfortable reading with. There is a warning on the website, saying that some people may find the imagery offensive, so be warned! I don't find it shocking, but there are always some that may not 'warm' to it. The deck is called 'The Alchemical Wedding' and even if it is not your cup of tea, the art is quite remarkableand worthy of both viewing and praise. The link is http://www.alchemicalwedding.com/digital/tarot.htm Well, there's my opinion of what a dark deck is through my eyes! Best wishes Yaboot

truthsayer	14 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Umbrae Geeze, I gave away my Lovecraft because it was not Dark Enough. geeze loweeze, umbrae! i can't believe the lovecraft wasn't dark enough for you!how dark does a deck have to be? LOL i still have mine but it is definitely the darkest deck in my collection. since i love light and fluffy decks so much, i should have known better than think i'd like the lovecraft. it practically gives me nightmares. i tried to read his books but they scared me so much i sold them. other dark decks would be the vertigo, light and shadow, haindl, spiral(i know some would disagree)templar, margarete peterson, mage the ascension, and dreampower. my favorite is the templar. the colors are wonderful and i just like the look of those broken angels and skeletons. i know, it doesn't make sense why i can't deal with the lovecraft. \o/

jema	15 Jul 2003
Enochian tarot. Not a true tarot - it has 86 cards and 78. But if you want dark - this is about as dark as it gets. I just today got the book for it!! Perhaps I might even be able to use the deck in a month or two... Intuition only is just not the way to go with this deck. not for me anyway.

darwinia	15 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by truthsayer my favorite is the templar. the colors are wonderful and i just like the look of those broken angels and skeletons. i know, it doesn't make sense why i can't deal with the lovecraft. \o/ Having just bought the Templar principally on your excellent recommendation, I think it's the colour that prevents it from creeping out. I had to buy it because that blue colour was like a fire in my mind. The Devil card--all that glorious hot pink and orange just won't let him frighten. The Lovecraft is very dark colour-wise, and also monochromatic, right? So the imagery and the colour deal you a double dose of dark. I could never read Lovecraft either, it was like reading Poe, you felt like walling yourself up afterward. Or someone else.

Shade	17 Jul 2003
Hey Demonesse help me out on Asmodeus. I know he's a big figure in the demon pantheon but he is also made use of in catholic churches as being a symbol of a guardian of treasures and taht he's just about the only demon besides Lucifer you see in catholic iconography. I know he's also been made use of by sci-fi from Dungeons and Dragons to Gabriel Knight and whatnot (I think mainly because he has a pretty interesting name). So any idea as to why he would be featured as the Lust (Strength) card. Does that fit his profile?

Logiatrix	20 Jul 2003
I'm very glad to have found this thread. My usual taste in decks does not lend itself to the Gothic style, but I want to work with C. Jette's book on shadow work (again). The book is keyed to Robin Wood's deck, and that's what I used the first time I attempted the study. Well, me and the deck didn't mesh well, and I also believe that I wasn't ready for the deep self-discovery stuff. Last week I decided that I'm not scared of my Shadow anymore and it's time for me to try a Scary Deck--maybe even get the book again. I've suprised myself with new ownership of the Vampire Tarot. Clearly, as I gather from the previous comments, this deck isn't even close to the Darkest of the Dark (which one got the sash and roses again?), but it's a breakthrough for me (the Zerner-Farber and Animal-Wise are among my favorites; see what I mean?). It's a step into the darkness, and I'm so proud! :D

Cocobird55	23 Jul 2003
I was looking through my Templar deck the other day. It is definitely dark. Lots of skulls, and generally gives me a grim feeling. Sue

Emily	24 Jul 2003
I've been looking through my decks and I don't seem to have one dark deck, now I use it I don't consider the Thoth dark nor the Crow's Magick, I have decks of varying styles including, Egyptian, Black and white, dragon themed, pagan themed, Rider Waite clones, thoth clone decks and my very new Marseilles type Ancient Italian but I don't have any dark decks - hmm seems now my collection isn't yet complete :)

galadrial	24 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by JohnnyVoodoo From what I've seen of the Lovecraft Traot that wins the sash and roses for the worlds darkest deck, even more messed up than the Giger in my opinion. And a question for Lovecraft's fangirl... if I wanted to start out reading Lovecraft's work what is a good kicking off point? I've been a lottle disoriented every time I tried to find a starting point. Afraid I'm with Umbrae as far as thinking the Lovecraft tarot isn't particularly dark; though I would never give mine away:-) I like using it since the nonstandard minors and the use of otherworldly creatures as the archetypes makes for a fresh reading when I feel like breaking away from the RWS perspective. I'm a Lovecraft fangirl as well, so to try to answer your question, I read his work in the order Ballantine books presented them in the '70's, which is: 1."The Tomb", 2."At the Mountains of Madness", 3."The Lurking Fear", and 4."The Shuttered Room". If you get through those without going mad, "Dagon and Other Macabre Tales", and "The Dunwich Horror and Others", put out by Arkham House, have some extra stories that aren't in the above four. Also, "The Case of Charles Dexter Ward" is a good, stand alone book that would give you a taste of his style.

Thoth1884	24 Jul 2003
Well, I've had both extremely light and extremely dark decks... The Thoth deck, people may percieve it as dark, because it was the deck created by aliester crowley... but they also have to remember the deck has a name... "Thoth" The ancient egyptian god of knowledge and the moond... and some other stuff... I've done some research on Thoth... To put it in christian terms... He is like St. Peter.. at the gate of heaven.. everything you've done in your life is in St. Peters book.. Same thing with Thoth.... There are a couple of articles and translations... on Thoth's emerald tablets... that tells all of this in greater detail... I bought a Demon deck... a while ago.. I actually had to special order it... That is a dark deck... I used it a couple of time... and got the feeling of the Heebe Geebies out of it... SO.... on the next New Moon.. I gave it to my friend... since he is a practing Necromancer and Demonologist... I figure he would get more use out of the deck of cards than I would... ~Danny

Elle	25 Jul 2003
I just viewed the Victoria Regina deck and the images looked so powerful I gave in and ordered it. I suppose I should examine others, but I have a feeling I will accumulate a collection just by reading all the enthusaim on this site! Here's to collecting faves! Elle

Cerulean	26 Jul 2003
Here's a sample of a deck that I consider portraying an 'outer dark' moodiness or theme: I was considering the Future Solleone by E. Cassari. An outer dark story, say X-Files seventies style. Maybe an old-fashioned sci-fi like Terminator movie series: http://www.spiritone.com/~filipas/Masquerade/Reviews/future.html It's a sci-fi story and in Italian, maybe just too loose tarotwise. It has a dynamic style and maybe its what I'd like. A bad description artwise- a future meeting of two variant tarots. The linework of the Tarot of the Orishas from Llewellyn meets the color and strange minors of Tarot of the Crystals (Elizabetta Trevisan) from Los Scarabeo. (Swords take on water, cups take on air). -------------------------------- Maybe the Thoth is a deck that strikes us as dark from an inner reaction: The Thoth sometimes has mandala or color combinations that range from very soft to airy to bleak and lines that vary from flowing to jagged, all in the same deck. ______________________ I've kept Secrets, Thoth, Vertigo and a few of the decks mentioned. Sometimes decks with extreme color variations that look great on a PC screen don't appeal to me in person. I thought the Templer colors were great when I saw them online. But after some tries, it seemed to accentuate what I saw in Victorian mourning pictures. I saw the images as unvarying, more as icons in a shrine or paintings on a wall. That's just me. In contrast, the original Vertigo has a limited color palette on each card...perhaps that is why I find it and the Leonardo not too grim. Sober, sometimes grim, but not static or anchored.

Violet Gargoyle	27 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by JohnnyVoodoo Hey Demonesse help me out on Asmodeus. I know he's a big figure in the demon pantheon but he is also made use of in catholic churches as being a symbol of a guardian of treasures and taht he's just about the only demon besides Lucifer you see in catholic iconography. I know he's also been made use of by sci-fi from Dungeons and Dragons to Gabriel Knight and whatnot (I think mainly because he has a pretty interesting name). So any idea as to why he would be featured as the Lust (Strength) card. Does that fit his profile? I can help somewhat there. I am not sure about the guardian of treasures in the Catholic Church, maybe you can tell me what region this is from. I would love to read up about it! You can find Asmodeus as Asmodee or Asmoidaios- sometimes identified with Aeshma (Zoroastrian), Pazuzu (Assyrian) or Sameal (Christian Fallen Angel). Asmodeus is supposed to be variously the demon who incites marital jealousy and discord. One story says that he was so smitten with a woman named Sarah that he struck down her bridegrooms on each of her 7 wedding nights. Asmodee has a story in French literature that says he lifts the rooftops off of houses to expose the private secrets of families.

Myrrha	27 Jul 2003
According to Malcolm Godwin's book "Angels and Endangered Species" Asmodeus' name means "Being of Judgement" and he wa once a Persian deity. Many of the Judeo-Christian demons started out as pagan deites. For instance Ashtaroth, who is Ishtar with the sylable that means "abomination" inserted into her name! Violet Gargoyle, where did you find that about Asmodeus being associated with Pazuzu? that is interesting. Myrrha

Blue Override	30 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Thoth1884 I bought a Demon deck... a while ago.. I actually had to special order it... That is a dark deck... I used it a couple of time... and got the feeling of the Heebe Geebies out of it... SO.... on the next New Moon.. I gave it to my friend... since he is a practing Necromancer and Demonologist... I figure he would get more use out of the deck of cards than I would... ~Danny Oooh. Demon deck? What was the name of this one?

Macavity	30 Jul 2003
Thought I'd come across most of 'em once, but I hadn't seen the ANSATA before: http://www.wicce.com/ansatapics.html Remarkable. Not hugely dark, but rather Thoth-like? Shame it's a majors only deck ;) Macavity

purplelady	05 Aug 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Yaboot001 The deck is called 'The Alchemical Wedding' and even if it is not your cup of tea, the art is quite remarkableand worthy of both viewing and praise. The link is http://www.alchemicalwedding.com/digital/tarot.htm Well, there's my opinion of what a dark deck is through my eyes! Best wishes Yaboot Oh how very cool! A little scary, but very interesting. I love the borders. Death has a little too much silicon. LOL. Would make a great full deck even if it only had pips. It suddenly reminds me of photo negatives, in more than one way.

tao51	03 Jul 2004
that both the Gothic Tarot of the Vampires and the Tarot of the Vampires are dark. Crow's Magick Tarot is deliciously dark and mystical.--Tao

Frank Hall	05 Jul 2004
The Via Tarot has its dark side--the Hierophant and Sun cards include Mephisto or Satan as part of the light.I find this interesting,although macabre,but I like Poe's stories,too.The Via has trickles of blood from open orifces,Death as a skull with an eyeball in one socket,etc.On the other hand, there is much beauty in this deck--mixed with the dark side.Maybe life is theVia Tarot?

Emily	05 Jul 2004
I would consider the Liber T as a dark deck, its pretty powerful. There are quite a few severed heads, blood, demon like figures and the general darkness that runs through out the whole deck.

WolfSpirit	05 Jul 2004
Quote: Originally posted by tao51 Crow's Magick Tarot is deliciously dark and mystical.--Tao Crow's Magick is so different from other decks, it really draws you into another world. I agree with Emily on the Liber T: it is a different kind of dark. It's the most worrying 7 of cups I have ever seen.

Emily	05 Jul 2004
Hi WolfSpirit, Have you noticed the 10 cups - now that is a dark disturbing card. Usually the 10 Cups is a happy card but not this one, it just shows all the worse aspects of the card - indulgence, debauchery - infact looking through them, its not a happy deck at all lol

WolfSpirit	06 Jul 2004
Yes not much of a happy family in this 10/cups...more like a totally deranged family. I think this would be a good deck for shadow work - it seems to get the darkest possible meaning for every card. At the same time, the pictures are colourful and done in a bit of a playful style - but what is depicted is not cheerful at all. I find it an intriguing deck.

Sillanza	06 Jul 2004
I think the Rhorig is very dark. It is full of bright, vibrant colors, but I find many of the minors uniquely disturbing. That being said, I do like the powerful, different imagery in this deck. I just need to be in the right frame of mind when using it to read.

tao51	06 Jul 2004
This deck has many dark metaphors. I really place this deck on my regulars when doing readings.--Tao

orryelle	08 Aug 2004
Hi, Interesting that Linda's great 'Shadow Tarot' ( http://www.anandazone.nu ) is brought up as a 'dark' deck because the originals are painted with dayglo (and other) paint! Ironic with the name too. She is currently working on a minor arcana to release a full 78-card version later this year... My own 'Book of KAOS' ( http://www.crossroads.wild.net.au/tarot.htm ) is often considered to be a 'dark' deck although personally I feel it to be as bright as it is dark. Certainly it would not be a white-lighter's choice though as it pulls no punches on the harsher aspects of existence (nor on its joys and ecstasies!) Tarot should I believe cover the full spectrum of experience...

Cerulean	18 Dec 2004
http://www.themysticeye.com/pics/shadow.htm http://www.tarotpassages.com/shadow2.htm Primal and abstract bright images, but while the Isha Lerner's colorful folkloric tarot is mainly almost a cheerful walk through a quilt gallery, the Shadow Tarot is a mythical write-up of symbology that represents fallen angels in the earthly dayside aspects and the shadow side of tarot card 'energies' or card personalities. I remembered that a favorite of mine, the Caroline Smith Elemental Tarot, might have some similarity--at least in one of the cards. I'd actually only pick out some of the book's fictional take on meditative symbology as a counterpoint to augment the beautiful, light-filled-in-comparison Caroline Smith "Elemental Tarot". I was struck with the choice of a Baboon in both the Elemental and Shadow for the Magus cards, for instance. The use of a god or goddess archetype name in the Elemental has usually given me an uplifting suggestion...but there's another aspect as well.. In comparison, the Thoth deck is softer, aged and quietly reflective to me. Regards, Cerulean P.S. I no longer have the Vertigo or Orishas decks, but have kept my Gothic Tarot of the Vampires (Minetti) and Secrets as good decks for darker storytelling...

NightWing	04 Jan 2005
For me, the darkest of the dark (thus far) has been the previously mentioned Gothic Tarot of Joseph Vargo. In that deck, even The Star card shows a black star on a black background, with the star only visible because of a bit of surrounding glow that provides an outline of the radiant blackness. Think about it: even the radiating light is black! Radiant darkness! On almost all the cards there is but a kind of spectral light that creates a mostly monochromatic effect, illuminating the vampires, gargoyles, and other creatures of night and netherworld that inhabit Vargo's deck. It seems to me the stuff of nightmares. It is a world without real light, like deep in a mine or cavern. These are not beings I'd care to meet, or places I'd want to visit. Comparatively, Tarot of the Vampires or Crow's Magick seem lighthearted!

The Dark, Darker, Darkest Decks thread was originally posted on 10 Jul 2003 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.