OK - the one you've been waiting for: Packs you love to hate

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 01 Jul 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

mags@Treadwells	01 Jul 2003
This is for you all to let steam off about packs you: 1)really don t like (say why; gotta back it up - otherwise it's just spleen all over) 2)CANNOT possibly read with; cannot see how on earth others do 3)any other entertaining reason you won't be using. Lemme start you all off. 1. The Hello Kitty pack: Umm, he-llo? Too kitsch. 2. Tarot de Marseilles (ooooooh): Yeurch! The colours remind me of braille cards/cards used for children w low vision. Was OK then, but not now. 3. Ones people make with photos of their family &/or dogs then try to sell to the rest of us. I think it's LOVELY ppl do this creatively, but private project, fine, share on a site, fine. Beyond that, not fine. Hope this gets you started.

RedWood	01 Jul 2003
LOLOL Sacred Rose--Find it ugly as sin..the colors are garish the peoples eyes are white. I would rather of seen a photo deck called sacred rose. Atleast then it would look like a rose instead of a swirly with color.

truthsayer	02 Jul 2003
i go along with the sacred rose. i agree on the marseille (but don't tell diana i said so! }) ) but the hello, kitty! OUCH! those were my toes! LOL i'll add the golden dawn, barbara walker, tarot of the witches--u-g-l-y you ain't got no alibi! new age(neuzit)--art that even an artist couldn't love ijj swiss--i like more colors in my decks than primary colors bosch--things growing where they shouldn't be going*enough said!* witches tarot(cannon-reed)--scarey muscle men stuffed like sausage into tiny green speedos LOL this is so funny. sorry if i name anyone's favorite deck/s.

Logiatrix	02 Jul 2003
Brace yourself--this is gonna get ugly... :D Tapestry: Horrible photographs of someone's yard sale leftovers. Masquerade: Dull drawings of stick figures in masks. Cloisters: Good drawings with garrish black lines all over them. Gareth Knight: Flat, unoriginal artwork. Unicorn: Yawn. An interesting theme made boring. Jungian: The people look like they need more fibre. Bosch: 78 postcards of fire-and-brimstone? No thank you. Giger: Creepy. The man has serious sodomy issues. Barbara Walker: Very angry. The woman has serious...well, issues. "Barbara Walker, I'd like you to meet H. R. Giger." Halloween: My apologies to those who like this deck (I know you're out there), but this one reminds me of the retail industry in October. I despise carmel corn. Ahhh, I feel better. ;)

zorya	02 Jul 2003
i used to go to the art institute in chicago alot. even when i was young. i loved impressionism from the start. i could easily recognize and understand the images. so i appreciated it. for years i just shook my head at the jackson pollack. hah! i could throw paint on the floor and do that. wasn't until i went to art school and discovered that there was so much more there than i ever imagined. as i began to learn and understand what pollack's art was about, i began to appreciate it more and more. i became an abstract expressionist myself. now i am astounded by his work. its beauty brings me to tears. i think what i learned is that the things i 'judge', are the things i understand the least. the more i learn, the more i appreciate. check out the marseilles study group. they are deceptively deep. i think you will see the cards in a new light. i never thought i would like a photo-montage deck. as i am writing a review, i have to work with the sacred circle. at first i disliked it strongly. now it has grown on me to the point where i expect to use it on a fairly regular basis. cards that make me gag? naw.. only cards i don't fully 'get'.

Diana	02 Jul 2003
Oh zorya! I just love your post. It's really given my mind a well needed shake. As people know, I don't appreciate the majority of decks (I wouldn't go so far as saying I gag on them though :( ), but zorya's post really makes me think...... and think very hard. *Diana goes off to look at some of the Tarot decks that she always thought were useless.*

mags@Treadwells	02 Jul 2003
BRILLIANT!!" Thank you all SO much for "speakin your truuth, giiirllfreeends". I was a bit concerned about nighttime raids on this one...but I'm loving all your views. Let it all out, children! Let it all out! Will re-look over posts, learn to stop barking w laughter/agreement then think on. Blimey, there are so many I didn t realise until now I had v little respect for. Oops, I mean, that I don t choose to read with. Yeah, that s it.

Little Baron	02 Jul 2003
Out of the decks I own, the Matt Myers Art Neuveau is the only one I don't really like. Don't like the size; reminds me of cigarette cards. Don't like the minors; feels like I am being taken through some primary school craft lesson on how to make a pentacle. There are so many that I click on over the web and go - yuk - but for now, I cannot think of them. Yaboot **To be fair, Myers has created some good majors and is an extremely talented artist. I just find the minors have too little in them for me to meditate on or find use in **

baba-prague	02 Jul 2003
Anything with women with big hair (okay, okay, it was fine in the eighties) or people with big, "soulful" eyes. I refuse to name names, but you all know which decks I'm talking about - big evil grin.

Demonesse	02 Jul 2003
I am going to have to book all of you for unauthorized deck bashing! Muahaha. }) Just kidding - take a look at this thread too, some time back, (just for your reference). *Sob* NOT my Vampire deck... ;) http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8180

jema	02 Jul 2003
Computer generated decks like the portal tarot Except of course the Soul Radiance Tarot which I think I quite wonderful. I quite like those less-then-perfectly-made tarots. like motherpeace, african tarot etc. but yeah, big hair is just bad. hehe

Emily	02 Jul 2003
I do try not to post in forums like this because as soon as I've said there is a kind of deck i don't like I end up buying one :D - hated frilly, collage decks, Why do I then love the artwork of The Zerner Farber Enchanted, didn't like artsy decks (I now own and love the Rohrig), wasn't over keen on none illustrated minors but the Thoth and clones decks are my main reading decks now. But there are a few decks that I wouldn't touch, The Bosch seems to be the stuff of someones nightmares, Barbara Walker too many cards I don't like, Black and white decks,( I have the Victoria Regina, its ok but I can't read with it), but I like my decks to have colour. Over large decks that are hard to shuffle, well the Rohrig is large but the card stock is very good quality, worth the effort. There are other kinds of decks that I wouldn't buy but I can't remember the names of them because I just usually pass them straight over. :)

Arachne	02 Jul 2003
zorya's post did make me stop and think before I wrote. Thank you, zorya... However, even after reading that most insightful post, reflection upon my least favorite deck brought about the realization that it really is my least favorite deck, still...lol. I have to add the traditional Rider-Waite deck to this list. The colors used are so bright and harsh as to be almost an assault, which I find rather distracting and which interfere with the flow of energy when I am reading. On the other hand, the Universal Waite deck, which uses the same images but with more subdued colors, is a deck which I use on a daily basis.

divinerguy	02 Jul 2003
The Robin Wood - also known as, "Ken and Barbie meet maple syrup." One World Tarot - Nice example of digital handiwork, but not enough symbology. Art Nouveau (Myers) - Silicone Sally and her boyfriend in 78 different poses. Anything with cats or dragons or vampires - need I say more? Almost anything with "Celtic" in the name - The publishers are trying to capitalize on paganism, with most of them missing the mark. Nigel Jackson - aka, The Gentle Deck, or maybe, the Pastel Tarot. Too many pastel colors, and waaaay too nice. Even the Londa is better than this one. Londa Tarot - Goth chick goes to a KISS concert and discovers face paint. Sacred Circle - Nice deck, but the images are too small, and sometimes don't have enough symbology. You can only have so many women in gossamer gowns before the deck loses credibility. Withes Tarot (Reed) - Tarot on steroids, aka The Bodybuilders Tarot. Too many computer generated graphics. Zerner/Farber Tarot - aka, The Wallpaper Tarot, aka, the I Like Purple Tarot.

Le_Corsair	02 Jul 2003
How about: Anything drawn by Mary Hanson-Roberts! The minors in the Cagliostro and the 1JJ Swiss Anything featuring vampires, dragons, flowers, angels or unicorns Aything too upbeat; (howzabout one really vicious and hateful deck for those of us with a twisted sense of humor: death REALLY means death, etc.!) decks too large or small to shuffle bridge-style, and finally... DECKS WITH UGLY BACKS! Bob :THERM :OL :SL :CL :WL

Ruby7	02 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by zorya [b i think what i learned is that the things i 'judge', are the things i understand the least. the more i learn, the more i appreciate. . [/b] Zorya, i loved your post, especially that part. I have had similar experiences with artwork, and with the Hanson-Roberts deck. I was looking for a smaller deck (small hands) and someone pointed out the Hanson-Roberts deck to me, I looked at it and thought YUCK!-(hated the artwork---the way the people looked)-not for me. About a month later something made me purchase the deck and it has become my easiest reading deck---i can see so much in these cards. That said, I will say that Tarot of the Moon Garden annoys me, because i like the artwork of the cards but the border is too much. The border distracts from the cards and i wish the cards had a more simple border . Ruby7

truthsayer	02 Jul 2003
i went through the search function and found the following threads that have a similar theme to this one. i don't know how to make a link to take you to the sites though. if you use the search function at the top, and type in a title it'll take you there. one thing for certain, aeclectians love to hate some decks! oh no! not that deck! Decks from hate to love love the art but can't read with it decks you thought you'd hate but ending up loving lo scarebeo decks where are all the good Tarot decks? I just don't want it! demonesse, think this one will be good for your sticky about using the search function?

truthsayer	02 Jul 2003
[quote]Originally posted by zorya [b]for years i just shook my head at the jackson pollack. hah! i could throw paint on the floor and do that. ***************************************** i felt the same way about andy warhol's art until i saw an exhibit with his works in las vegas. i didn't know he was a graphic designer like me until then. that's when i had a religious experience one might call "getting it" *********************************************** i think what i learned is that the things i 'judge', are the things i understand the least. the more i learn, the more i appreciate. check out the marseilles study group. they are deceptively deep. i think you will see the cards in a new light. ******************************************** i didn't mean to sound like i was vitreously attacking the marseille. i know it has it's good and even great points but it's not for me. it's one deck i've known about many years and just don't like no matter how i've tried working with it and tried to understand. just like so many people dislike the art of my beloved mary hanson roberts decks. sometimes i feel sensitive about it but i've got to respect that some people don't like her art. vive the difference! it makes the world more interesting. ************************************************* cards that make me gag? naw.. only cards i don't fully 'get'. ********************************************** i agree that there are decks that i don't fully get but there are decks that i get and i still don't like them. however, i'll take your challenge and check out the marseille forum. i'm always open to being made a fool of by a tarot deck. the rascals (tarot decks) have made me eat my hat more than once. one of the best examples i can think of decks that i used to hate and now love is the londa deck and crow's magick. after i read the interview with londa marks here and learned about the story behind the decks, i had to have a copy of them.

Diana	02 Jul 2003
truthsayer: If I can just add a little word here. People who use and study the Marseille deck, do not do this for the artwork. They do it because of the Initiatory messages and clues that abound in it. It is because it gives us a way to "talk" directly to the ancestors who actually designed the Tarot. It is the most undiluted Tarot that one can find anywhere in the world because it is so many centuries old. That is what appeals to many of us. The authenticity and the purity due to its authenticity. It's really not the artwork. Although once one starts grasping the wondrous purpose of the Marseille deck, one loves the artwork too...... The only decks I do not appreciate are those made by people who do not really understand Tarot - have just read about it, and carbon-copied and cloned other people's understandings. They have learned that the Two of "Pentacles" is a man juggling, so they make a picture of something that means juggling. But they don't ever ask themselves WHY does this card mean this? They just take it for granted that this is so. "You must love your neighbour as yourself", thunders the priest. "Why?" says the little girl. "Because it's written in the Bible". "Oh", says the little girl, who realises that this is not an answer but decides it's easier to accept it than asking why. And she writes an essay next day at school saying "You must love your neighbours just like yourself". So this means that there are about 95% of the decks on the market I do not appreciate. But like I said, I wouldn't go so far as gagging on them. Fainting maybe............ :)

firemaiden	02 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by zorya i think what i learned is that the things i 'judge', are the things i understand the least. the more i learn, the more i appreciate. (((((((zorya)))))))) Yes, it was like that for me with literature too. I would turn up my nose at something, then (be forced to) study it in detail and fall in love with it. Of course, not everything bears up to close scrutiny. But I love what is quoted in the first page of Michel Tournier's book, the Ogre: ...il suffit de regarder une chose longtemps pour qu'elle devienne intéressante... It suffices to look at something for a long time for it to become interesting

truthsayer	02 Jul 2003
[quote]Originally posted by Diana [b]truthsayer: If I can just add a little word here. People who use and study the Marseille deck, do not do this for the artwork. They do it because of the Initiatory messages and clues that abound in it. It is because it gives us a way to "talk" directly to the ancestors who actually designed the Tarot. It is the most undiluted Tarot that one can find anywhere in the world because it is so many centuries old. That is what appeals to many of us. The authenticity and the purity due to its authenticity. It's really not the artwork. Although once one starts grasping the wondrous purpose of the Marseille deck, one loves the artwork too...... ******************************************* thank-you, diana. no one has explained marseille to me this way before. so what you are saying is that it makes sense in a way i haven't considered. "talking to the ancestors" interesting concept. i do get that.makes me think of seances in a tarot kind of way. i am very image oriented so i tend to go for image oriented deck because art and symbols strongly appeal to me. that explains why marseille is considered more intuition oriented. that does appeal to me. now if i can just get past the art... ;) LOL ************************************************* The only decks I do not appreciate are those made by people who do not really understand Tarot - have just read about it, and carbon-copied and cloned other people's understandings. They have learned that the Two of "Pentacles" is a man juggling, so they make a picture of something that means juggling. But they don't ever ask themselves WHY does this card mean this? They just take it for granted that this is so. ************************************************ i definitely understand what you mean there. there are so many "art" decks out there done by graphic designers who really don't get tarot but they like making their own interp of the images. just because someone can create a new interpretation of an image doesn't give it symbolic meaning. ************************************************ So this means that there are about 95% of the decks on the market I do not appreciate. But like I said, I wouldn't go so far as gagging on them. Fainting maybe............ :) *********************************************** i must admit i do like a lot of these so called "new age" or fluffy bunny decks" because i like the art. but read them? you must be kidding! there are some decks on the market like the wheel of change that have extraordinary thought and meaning behind them. but talk with the ancestors with them? nope. there isn't enough history and life times passing on thru them. maybe one day...the "tarot of transformation" more than likely is a bit "fluffy" but i love the art! i'd love to have some of the cards made poster size to hang on the wall. okay maybe gagging is strong language but it strikes my funny bone. haven't you ever heard the expression,"gag with me a spoon" when you don't like something? maybe we should change the thread title to "decks that make you faint" but then how do we know if the fainting is for a good or bad reason? }) ;) sorry if i can across as defensive earlier. i just don't want to hurt anyone's feelings if we have a little childish fun here. i don't think any harm is meant.

SingingTarot	02 Jul 2003
Thank you for your post Zorya, I have experienced pretty much the same thing. I am taking an art class. When I started and saw some of the works of Pollack, I thought a dog could do that if you dipped his tail in enough paint. And then art worked it's magic, and I started liking non-representational works... Now the funny thing is that I turned around and applied my tiny bit of knowledge of art to the cards. It worked its magic as well. Some decks that I use to like, I just despise now. If you take each card and really start looking at it, it becomes pretty obvious that some of the decks have pretty little pictures but about as much depth as my bathtub. I tend now to look for decks where I feel each card is a work of art that could be hung in a gallery. I like to find layers of symbolism. I won't name the decks that didn't make the cut after my "art 101" class, lots of them have been named already. Just as Firemaiden said, sometimes it suffices to look at something flong enough to find it interesting, but then again, doing this with some decks my just equal to a painful brain freeze. Alice

Myrrha	02 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Diana truthsayer: If I can just add a little word here. People who use and study the Marseille deck, do not do this for the artwork. They do it because of the Initiatory messages and clues that abound in it. It is because it gives us a way to "talk" directly to the ancestors who actually designed the Tarot. It is the most undiluted Tarot that one can find anywhere in the world because it is so many centuries old. That is what appeals to many of us. The authenticity and the purity due to its authenticity. It's really not the artwork. Although once one starts grasping the wondrous purpose of the Marseille deck, one loves the artwork too...... I actually like the artwork on my Ancient Tarot de Marseilles quite a bit. I don't know if I can explain this, but many, even most, artworks and designed images are very "finished". They are designed to catch the attention, convey a message, entertain the visual sense. The original Marseilles images may contain initiatory messages as Diana says, but as images they have a certain quality of being just what they are, without trying to be anything in particular. They are *real* images in the way that photo-booth pictures and children's drawings and the cave paintings at Lasceaux are. Images that have this quality can provoke a creative response that more finished and elaborated images can't. Myrrha

DarkElectric	02 Jul 2003
Zerner/Farber, ick, ick, ICK! Too cutesy, and for some reason I HATE hearts instead of cups. If I wanted a regular playing card deck, I'd get one. Geiger. Too metal. And I think it's coming from a more sensationalistic perspective, ie: sexual shock value. Los Scarabeo Art Nouveau. Yup, all Barbie, all the time, no insight can I find here. Adrian. Think it's trying too hard to be cool, inhuman colours, and the symbolism is SO obscure to me, I can't grasp it at all.

Rhiannon	02 Jul 2003
I can only fairly comment on the decks that I've had and didn't like. But no deck is a bad deck, because someone else will like it, so even if you don't you can always TRADE IT! }) Witches by Ellen Cannon Reed - had it, it gave me a headache. Enchanted/Zerner Farber (same deck really) - um, too... hodge podge Others I've had are pretty, but I didn't read with them. R :)

Cerulean	02 Jul 2003
not because the art is very bad, but the art within these decks run counter to what works for me. It's partly the flat contrasts in the color that hurts my eyes or sometimes the way the figures are depicted. Voyager and Rohrig--the variety is rich, but doesn't evoke what I need in terms of inspiration or study. Rock Art and Shining Tribe-the colors are too bright and the outlines are a bit distracting. I realize I need softer patterns and more delicate lines to be able to not be distracted. The Shining Tribe doesn't reproduce too well in black and white...R.Pollack is wonderful writer in Forests of Souls and Illustrated Guide. I think Natalie Goldberg is a wonderful writer too, but her art doesn't inspire me. Golden Dawn (Jung) and Magical Golden Dawn (Cicero)--contrasts don't work for me and I prefer different art styles for figures. For instance, I can work with the Dali and Picini because I can look at the cards without being too distracted.

mags@Treadwells	02 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by zorya i used to go to the art institute in chicago alot. etc i think what i learned is that the things i 'judge', are the things i understand the least. the more i learn, the more i appreciate. Great, for you, Zorya. But I'm not sure why you posted here. This is a thread for ppl to let off steam about packs they DO NOT LIKE, NB: not packs they "don't understand". (Your posting this is a judgement in itself of those who enjoy not conforming to someone else's social niceities.) Aware of the other threads, similar to this. This really was MEANT for those unafraid to step on toes, speak directly, rather than *****foot around (not rude in UK Eng) the possiblility of MAYBE upsetting someone who MIGHT own one of the packs they mention. You are all free, as you know, to go ahead and list the ones that make you gag!1 Go on!! Be freee!! cards that make me gag? naw.. only cards i don't fully 'get'.

Ruby7	02 Jul 2003
I don't think that Zorya had the intention of being judgmental. I certainly didn't take Zorya's post that way, I thought it was an interesting view on why sometimes we might not like a deck, and of course it is not the only reason we dislike certain decks, and yes we are allowed to just dislike a deck for no reason at all, Ruby7

mags@Treadwells	02 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by DarkElectric Zerner/Farber, ick, ick, ICK! Too cutesy, and for some reason I HATE hearts instead of cups. If I wanted a regular playing card deck, I'd get one. Geiger. Too metal. And I think it's coming from a more sensationalistic perspective, ie: sexual shock value. Los Scarabeo Art Nouveau. Yup, all Barbie, all the time, no insight can I find here. Adrian. Think it's trying too hard to be cool, inhuman colours, and the symbolism is SO obscure to me, I can't grasp it at all. My God! At last!! Thank you God for sending us DE to get this thing back on track. OK ppl - here is a place for you all to fEEL FREE (Yes, belive it or not - that IS allowed) to list what you dont like to an audience of grown-ups. With a sense of humour.

mags@Treadwells	02 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by firemaiden [but i love what is quoted in the first page of michel tournier's book, the ogre: ..[i] .il suffit de regarder une chose longtemps pour qu'elle devienne intéressante... [/i] It suffices to look at something for a long time for it to become interesting [/b] Sorry - a LITTLE off topic, but Tournier - wow! caught some of him back at Uni, we did. Ever wondered what he was REALLY trying to say by it? Keep those hate lists a-coming, ppl. Lovely stuff. Add that one on the net meant for "kiddies", black outlines, intended for them to colour in with felt-tips. Hmm. Dear God - any one reminded of "Fuzzy Felts" here?

firemaiden	02 Jul 2003
Mags: I think zorya's post had made the important point that there is (sometimes) more to art than meets the eye, and that a reaction of bleurf might prevent one from learning and seeing further about the tarot de Marseilles, for example, and that would be a shame. Another thing to remember is, that one man's hilarious joke, might be another man's slap in the face. The thing is, many people feel that Tarot, the tradition of Ttarot is sacred in some way, particularly the deck to which most others owe their existence, the Marseille. You see this forum exists because of a love of Tarot, and the desire to share that love, and when you say you want to bleurf all over the Ur-tarot, um... well, is it safe to say that the hilarious laughter and chuckles are tempered by a few 'ahems' ? p.s. re: Tournier: I think he pretty much explains what he actually means all along. He is difficult to write about, as a lit crit, because he does all his own self-analysis and self interpretation along the way. He takes our job away :(.

jog1118	03 Jul 2003
photo collage, computerized, erotic (veeery distracting :D) decks HATE EM!!! :smoker:

baba-prague	03 Jul 2003
Okay, so you want what we really dislike and you want us to NAME the deck/s? Well, I feel completely comfortable with naming and shaming the Lord of the Rings Tarot (nothing to do with tarot, and nothing to do with Tolkien either - but a great way to make some money quickly) and the Vampire tarot (sloppy - no thought at all went into what the connection could be between vampire myths, modern or traditional, and tarot - plus the artwork looks like it was done at speed by a commercial artist who wanted to get on with the next advertising project). That rude enough for you? Mags - you are a bad, bad influence :-) Whoops - just read your post Demonesse - sorry, sorry, but someone had to name the Vampire. Please tell us why you like it? Minds can be changed!

Dark Inquisitor	03 Jul 2003
Mags was very clear in the beginning, stating here was the place to vent about decks you hate. Perhaps a separate thread for the non-judgemental view of everything should have been started . Venting & ranting are subjects that do not usually fall within the parameters of what I am now going to name "Spiritual Correctness". They are fun expressions meant to relieve tension & lighten things up , mostly for the poster . But also for those who have the same feelings. I am an artist & I think it is perfectly fine to hate other works of art, or whatever else you want to. It's a gut reaction, & sometimes a decision based on certain criteria I have for technical & artistic matters. I fully realize the art establishment has invested heavily in deconstructing people's ability to make critical judgements. Sometimes this is ok, but sometimes it leads to complete absurdity such as cans of feces being sold as art. As long as there are wealthy people willing to accept feces, it will prosper. For myself, I absolutely loathed the Faries Oracle. And the sadistic sexism of the Giger. I am sure more will come to mind later. Tarotphelia

baba-prague	03 Jul 2003
I agree with you on the Giger - I don't like "slasher movies" (refuse to watch violence or sadism for the sake of sensationalism) and I think the Giger has some of the same feel about it. BTW, personally I don't like the word "hate" - it seems too strong an emotion for a tarot deck. But that's personal - no criticism of Mags - who is quite brave to start this thread. There are decks I dislike though. I agree that this is all really meant to let us vent as a bit of fun - not to be taken too seriously. I doubt it will really offend anyone (she says, wondering about the person who hates all photocollage decks - oh no, not ALL surely :-( - okay, I have pulled myself together on that one :-)) - no offence taken!) Oh - and I also agree with you about art and the way in which only certain people are supposed to have an opinion now - varied opinions are a GOOD thing, and not to be put down.

Macavity	03 Jul 2003
I think (like most things) it depends on priorities, but I understand what is meant by "hate" in this context. ;) Against real life issues, I'd find it difficult to get overly (negatively) excited about ANY tarot deck. I do get mildely irritated when I feel some author is trying to "educate" me out of some presupposed prejudice into political correctness - my emphasis is deliberate. I just think there are better ways to expose and fight prejudice. I sense a certain amount of the latter is inherent in Tarot, as a consequence of being about archetypes... To remove or distort these to other ends, perhaps renders the deck less "Tarot" in my eyes? I guess I mostly dislike some of the examples quoted here (yeah, me too!) because I sense that somewhere along the line, financial considerations are involved and the term "bandwaggon" sometimes suggests itself }) Macavity

Sulis	03 Jul 2003
Robin Wood is my most hated deck of all, here`s why: Pseudo-medieval clothing - cute little ballet shoes - yeuch!!!! Blonde, blue eyed, smiling happy people everywhere - double yeuch!!! Horrible banana-like anatomical bits - euuuuuuuuuuuuu!!!! Nasty geometric back design which just doesn`t go with the cards. It almost seems sacriligeous to dislike this deck, especially if you`re a witch. I think it`s awful - `nough said. Love and light Crystalmynx xx

Lee	03 Jul 2003
I don't think there's anything wrong with a thread about decks people hate. There are certainly plenty of decks that make me shudder. However, I also don't think there's anything wrong with Zorya's post. She simply stated her viewpoint and personal experience with the subject matter of the thread. It seems to me it was entirely on topic, and interesting as well. Mags, I'm a little taken aback at your implication that Zorya ought not have posted. She certainly has a right to share her opinions about the thread topic, number one. Number two, just because you start a thread doesn't mean you get to have any control over how other people post. If you truly think a post is off-topic, I'd suggest PM'ing a moderator and discussing it with them. It's really the moderators' function to make those determinations. -- Lee

raeanne	03 Jul 2003
Hi all, First of all, I love all of my tarot decks because they are tarot and I wouldn’t trade them for the world but the following are decks that are just too, well, too something. So, just for fun: African – brother turtle meets mushroom man Terrestrial – polymorph’s nightmare Tapestry – rainy day arts and crafts project for housewives using fabric and ribbons One World –Symbolism? What symbolism! Motherpeace – the “let me show you my crotch” deck Golden Dawn – is the background white enough? Inner Child –78 screaming, hyperactive, 3 year-olds who haven’t had a nap (but the stories are nice)

Chronata	03 Jul 2003
I almost feel bad saying that I really hate the artwork on a particular deck, after all I am an artist... art is very subjective... and I'm sure that when I finally get enough courage to show people the deck that I painted, I am pretty sure that someone out there will hate the artwork on it too.... But I must get this out of my system! Tarot of Wicca is simply awful...with one of the worst card backs I have ever seen, and a huge inconsistant mess of figures...that look like they are supposed to represent specific real people, with some looking very photo-realistic, and others looking like they were hastily drawn from memory at the last minute. Oh how I lothe this deck. And I keep it simply because it is unusual, and few people have ever seen it. Ahhhh. Feeling better now.

Diana	04 Jul 2003
Tarot is Tarot. Art is Art. I can understand that it is pleasurable to have a deck that is pleasing to the eye. But I do not understand why it should be such an important criteria. Tarot is a Divinatory Art. Isn't it more important that the arcana have the symbolism on them that provides sufficient understanding to penetrate the world of Tarot? Tarot is not just a question of Pretty Pictures. Art galleries are made for those. If one bases principally one's Tarot preferences on Artwork, then I think one is missing out on the whole idea of Tarot. What a shame.......

baba-prague	04 Jul 2003
Okay - I am going to defend the Visconti. I think the problem is that it is a hard deck to reproduce well (after all, it was hand painted in the original) but I still think that even if the reproductions are, necessarily, a pale shadow, that the deck is beautiful. I love this sort of medieval work. So - do I have to balance that by saying another that I don't like? Well, I have to agree on the Shining Tribe artwork (but I think a lot of people would agree on that one). I keep trying to like this deck - but I just can't. Which brings us to artwork. Diana, you are right, tarot is not principally about artwork and we should remember that, but I think the issue for me (and I suppose others) is that I find it hard to read with a deck if the artwork is so bad - or so unappealing - that it distracts me. Of course, I find it still more difficult if the symbolism seems way off or if the correspondences have all been changed for no good reason - even great artwork won't make such a deck readable. But I really do find that artwork I love (if it's combined with content that works) really does help me to read better. I don't claim that it's the same for everyone. Hey ho - I'm off to admire my Visconti (thanks Pollux for the trade!)

WolfSpirit	04 Jul 2003
I think many people here find for their reading decks symbolism more important than artwork. I have stumbled on many a post where people said a deck they did not like at all in the beginning, turned out to be their main readind deck later on. Speaking for myself, I want to have (and already have) a few good reading decks, and when I buy new decks now I often get them just for the artwork, even if I can't read with them I might keep them just for that. I guess if you are a total study person, you will buy decks with the purpose of learning new things, but I think I have a more hedonistic approach and go for the decks that appeal to me most. I think it is also a matter of luxury: there are so many decks to choose from, we can afford to reject decks we don't like at first sight. If you had just one deck appointed to you, you would probably learn how to use it no matter how little you liked the artwork. Now to the original topic (sorry mags ;) )... not many decks really make me gag...the Giger comes to mind, but I think there has been enough said about this deck in this thread. I hate the minors of the Merlin, completely uninspired pips. For the rest...many decks leave me indifferent, and many lovely decks have a few cards in it I hate.

Mimers	05 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Diana Oh zorya! I just love your post. It's really given my mind a well needed shake. As people know, I don't appreciate the majority of decks (I wouldn't go so far as saying I gag on them though :( ), but zorya's post really makes me think...... and think very hard. *Diana goes off to look at some of the Tarot decks that she always thought were useless.* Diana, I had to open my mind a little to appreciate the Marseilles deck ;)and I am so glad I did. I have you and jmd to thank for that. As for the other decks, why not think of them as oracle decks? Does it really matter what we call a deck or does it matter how it speaks to us? I appreciate why you don't consider other decks true Tarot decks, but even so, they can be very fun and interesting just to explore. Let me know what you think! :)

catboxer	06 Jul 2003
"I fully realize the art establishment has invested heavily in deconstructing people's ability to make critical judgements." Thus spake Tarotphelia. Zowie, you sure got that right. I dunno, I guess I like any of the traditional decks. They all say something about the time and place and social milieu that produced them. But I think the prettiest deck which also mostly conforms to the then-established tradition is the Soprafino that was engraved by C. Dellarocca in 1823 and published by Gummpenberg in Milan from 1823 to 1840. It's a "real" tarot, and very easy on the eyes. I don't like modern decks that seem to go out of their way to disregard the tradition. Haindl's deck comes to mind (it's all brown), and Giger's. I don't know what to say about modern decks like Robin Wood's without sounding like a mean old man. That one is respectful of the tradition, but the modern style, just by itself, puts me off. It's kind of like looking at a Walt Disney animated version of Dante's "Divine Comedy" (Tom Hanks as the voice of Dante and Rodney Dangerfield as the voice of Vergil). Modern times are overrated. Just compare Abraham Lincoln's second inaugural speech with George W. Bush's first and only one.

baba-prague	06 Jul 2003
"It's kind of like looking at a Walt Disney animated version of Dante's "Divine Comedy" (Tom Hanks as the voice of Dante and Rodney Dangerfield as the voice of Vergil). Modern times are overrated. Just compare Abraham Lincoln's second inaugural speech with George W. Bush's first and only one." _____________ ROFL. I have a feeling that the Walt Disney Divine Comedy is waiting to haunt me next time I have a feverish flu - what a thought! But things change and we need modern decks as well as the older ones surely? I was thinking about preservation of tradition last week because I read a book about house signs in Prague (the older houses here had signs over the door with pictures on them - these functioned as a type of address/identifier) and it pointed out that these signs in fact changed unintentionally over the years. Apparently when they were redone every so often the new artist would sometimes improvise and a man would become a mermaid, a lion turn into a fox etc (must have been awfully confusing if you were trying to find the house). So "tradition" does evolve and change - inevitably. I'd hate to see tarot frozen in time. It's great to see the sheer energy and number of modern decks - even while I continue to love the older ones (and, by the way, I don't find woodblock "horrible" - to me it's marvellous and simply different from how we do things now, not worse). Ah well - loved your post!

firemaiden	06 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by catboxer Just compare Abraham Lincoln's second inaugural speech with George W. Bush's first and only one. hahahaha! Good for Catboxer! Finally thinking about an inaugural speech. CATBOXER FOR PRESIDENT. Like Mimers, I too had to open my mind before finding anything to like about the Marseilles. Boy was I astounded when I finally had the cards to look at close up in my own hands -- how much personality and raw humanity seems to emanate forth from the crude wood cuts !. Here are faces with character lines! Now that's what is absent in the artificially sweetened Robin Wood deck -- character -- raw, ribald, flawed humanity.

Cerulean	06 Jul 2003
that at least three reviewers say adds nothing to the RWS family...although the book actually is said to be quite good...but the cards are said to be very very bad: http://www.learntarot.com/twdesc.htm and horribly colored as it is, I was looking for a not expensive beige-backed scenic deck to compare to a rather delicately engraved Neoclassical 1810 with a beige background...I cannot understand why I could use this and wince at the yellows and reds as the Sharman Caselli.

Alex	08 Jul 2003
Sacred circle.

nina	09 Jul 2003
Hello, At the risk of being ridiculed by everybody on this thread, I like the Barbara Walker deck. Well, except for the court cards, I don't know what she was thinking with those. And some of the images are so dark it's not a good deck to give somebody else a reading with. People tend to overeact when they see cards that actually say on them "failure", "doom", and "ruin". That tapestry deck just makes me laugh. Somebody put a lot of work into those silly pictures. The deck I can't stand is Cagliostro- turning The HP into some kind of domanatrix figure, and The Fool doing that Martha Graham dance, death looking like he's there to model his outfit for us, the whole thing is just a senseless mess. -nina

Blue Override	09 Jul 2003
I love the Giger deck, so it surprises me to see it most-name checked on the list. On to the loathing. Daughters of the Moon - I don't like Primitive art, matriarchal thinking and longing bores me, and besides it's just ass-ugly and round. Round decks irritate me. Any deck where Swords=Fire and Wands=Air. Wand=penis=solar energy=fire. Thank you, next. The photoedited "Gothic Tarot" - with all the cool goth people who would love to pose for pictures and would make great archetypes, and you use sculpture? Ugh. Uninspired. The Medicine Woman tarot - ugly, plain, and the re-naming of the cards irks me a little. Death. The Devil. The Hanged Man. It's okay to think about them - they won't steal your Glinda Tutu and throw you out of the white-light-club.

WolfSpirit	09 Jul 2003
**************************************************** I love the Giger deck, so it surprises me to see it most-name checked on the list. **************************************************** This is very much an artist's deck I suppose: if you like the artist's work you like the deck, if you don't you can't like the deck no matter how clever or well made. And I think it is a deck you either love or hate. I voted against this deck btw. But I must say there are so many decks that leave me indifferent and I don't even remember their names or what they look like. The Giger is a deck one easily remembers I guess. It is a very original deck and I am glad we don't all like the same thing.

Nevada	09 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by firemaiden I think zorya's post had made the important point that there is (sometimes) more to art than meets the eye, and that a reaction of bleurf might prevent one from learning and seeing further about the tarot de Marseilles, for example, and that would be a shame. I would like to say that it doesn't *prevent* so much as delay. Sometimes we let our first impressions rule. I do sometimes, depending on my stubbornness level for the day. ;) When I don't like something right off, often I do go back later and have a wholly different opinion. I find this especially when the first reaction was instantaneous and sort of gut-wrenching. However, there are times when the opposite occurs. I love something the first time I see it, and on closer inspection the beauty seems to be only a surface or cosmetic effect and closer study reveals the flaws. Sigh. It's sort of like the difference between infatuation and love, I suppose. I'm tempted to say that all my opinions are subject to change. But then, who would listen? We really do need to take a close, deep look at things before passing judgement, good or ill. Sometimes, with Tarot, I find that one year I can read with one perfectly good deck, and the next year another becomes the one that speaks to me. I do not know why this happens, why it changes. I also sometimes find that as few as I own, I have too many decks to choose from! Right now I don't like Cosmic Tribe and wonder why so many people do. Two years from now it may be my favorite. :) AND I loved Zorya's post too. Really made me think! Nevada

Macavity	09 Jul 2003
I think views can be changed. I'd cite LouiQ (and his interesting reading) for improving my perspective on the poor old Bosch Tarot - Secretly it was never THAT negative, but... }) Now, all I need is someone to help me to like the Sola Busca... :laugh: Macavity

littlegreen	14 Jul 2003
Bosch - ooh, always wanted to study that more. lgx

Molly	16 Jul 2003
Okay, a little controversy brewing on this thread... almost scared my little libra heart away, LOL... Seriously, though, I wanted to share. I LOVE tarot but I don't have a lot of free money at this point in my life... have pretty much spent every free dime that I've had to myself over the last 1-1/2 years on tarot decks and books, actually. I decided that in order to keep my IMPULSES and LUSTS at bay, I had to embrace my HATE and become extremely PICKY collector. I have traded away quite a few decks here at aeclectic for any little reason I could think of... I have gotten new decks in the process... (and I have even traded BACK for a few decks, *chuckle*) I haven't shared my nitpicky reasons, cuz, you know, I'm TRYING to be crazy and annoyed... and if a deck sits on my shelf for too long without being used, I want to trade it to a good home where it will be used... So here's some examples: Feng Shui Tarot... Have you looked at the art on the majors? Scrumptious. Ought to be sold as wall prints. The minors? What a mess! I was so confused I wanted to cry. And no symbolism in the majors at all. Just pretty pictures. The Gill Tarot... I LOVED it on the internet. In person, it creeped me out. All the staring... the eyes following me around the room! Stop staring already! Fine! I GET it! You've made your point! You don't have to harass me! And where are the black people? The Indians? The Orientals? It just made me sad. Songs For the Journey Home... Sigh. I wish I loved it. It's just so BUSY in a spread. Nothing means anything to me. Like listening to people talk underwater. I think I might be able to figure out what it's saying, but I never quite get it. And the book! Useful for Insomnia! Okay, here's a touchy one: Ancesteral Path. OKay, can I just say I am waiting to buy the MAAT tarot upon completion. I just love her art....her skills as an artist.... She is EXTREMELY studied in tarot as well, just check out her website. But, I just, um, well, COULDN'T STAND THAT DECK! WHY FOOL? Why? I don't want a picture of your friend! I want to be able to project myself into the card, or my client, not look at another tarot reader. I don't care if she is special to you or whatever. The world card - a card of motion and dance and symbolism... becomes... a picture of earth from outerspace. Just so ... lacking in movement. Those two cards bugged me. Then other cards started bugging me. Like, why did the Empress look cross-eyed? Loved the Hanged One though. *sigh* had to trade it. William Blake Tarot of Creative Imagination. I tried to read the book, really I did. I am not so esoteric, I'm afraid. I couldn't wrap my brain around a tenth of his ideas. And oddly, I thought some the art was so simplistic... and unartistic? Tarot of the Trance. Love the art. Really vibrant, appeals to me a lot. But as a spread is laid out, you wonder WHAAA?? The only things you see are snakes and apples... did the artist have no other symbols in her repertoire? Garden of Eden on the mind, much? Ditto with Tarot of the Moon Garden. Some really pretty art, but so many repititive images... too much sameness. Okay, I still have this deck, but here's some nitpicking anyway! The Blue Rose... (very lovely collage deck featured at tarotpassages.... you can look at the images http://www.tarotpassages.com/pgtar1.htm here) WHY is the Empress so ... cluttered. It bothers me... Also, Ace of Wands... I just feel "clutter," not power. Why, 9 of cups? I get the genie, but the man staring at me like a psycho? Why is HE staring into my soul? 5 of cups, one of my favorite cards generally, is a giant puzzle here... Is he looking at a tarot deck? Why? 5 of pentacles... Is that Steven Spielberg in the background??? What the hell is going on???? What???? WHY??? For heaven's sake won't someone tell me!!!!! (that last entry was mostly for Lee, *snicker*) Okay, that's enough for now. Please don't feel bad if I "roasted" one your faves. Like I said, it's either "be mean" or "be broke." hee.

littlegreen	16 Jul 2003
[quote]Originally posted by Mari_Hoshizaki that at least three reviewers say adds nothing to the RWS family...although the book actually is said to be quite good...but the cards are said to be very very bad: omg. You are so right. Another one for my little list.

dolphingirl	17 Jul 2003
Hi Guys Ok first off I want to say I mean no offence to those of you that loce these decks. One deck that I thought I would LOVe when I saw the scans was the Quest tarot. I love the colors and looked so forward to it but when I got it in my hot little hands I totally I just totally didn't care for it at all. To me so much of tarot is about the personal side of people and I just couldn't relate to all the metal people. Also for a deck that is supposed to be user friendly right out of the box I didn't feel that the pip cards accomplished that. I do love the colors but someting in that deck leaves me cold. Another deck that bothers me is the Cosmic Tribe deck. All the pics I saw of it before I bought it online were the milder cards which I do like. Now I hope that I am not a prude but some of the nudity just seems to say "Hey I am nude, take a good look Baby!" Ok I am sure that most of you don't see that but I just want to say Hey guys it is ok to wear some pants sometimes lol :) Blessings to all that love these decks! DolphinGirl

laura_borealis	27 Feb 2004
reviving an old thread... I had a thought today while at the bookstore. I suddenly found myself surrounded by pictures of smarmy little babies. Sleeping, dressed as bugs, curled in nests. Not campy enough to be kitsch, they're just banal and awful. And I thought, "Anne Geddes Tarot: that would truly be loathsome!" :laugh: Yes, that would be a pack I'd love to hate. Fortunately I don't think it exists... yet... What if Thomas Kincade did a tarot? *shudder*

lunakasha	27 Feb 2004
Quote: Originally posted by laura_borealis reviving an old thread... I had a thought today while at the bookstore. I suddenly found myself surrounded by pictures of smarmy little babies. Sleeping, dressed as bugs, curled in nests. Not campy enough to be kitsch, they're just banal and awful. And I thought, "Anne Geddes Tarot: that would truly be loathsome!" :laugh: Yes, that would be a pack I'd love to hate. Fortunately I don't think it exists... yet... What if Thomas Kincade did a tarot? *shudder* LOL!!!!! I always hated those Anne Geddes cards (no offense to any AG fans, they're just not for me ;))....I think it is only a matter of time before we see the Thomas Kincaid Tarot.....or how about those icky little cartoon kids on Nickelodeon??? :eek:Geez...I'd better quit now before I get a rash of nasty PM's from all the diehard Nickelodeon fans! :D Luna

laura_borealis	27 Feb 2004
Oh dear, I have just found my most hated deck. Be warned, this is not for the faint at heart. Or maybe it is. :P http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/ursidae-bear/

Phoenyx*	28 Feb 2004
Quote: Originally posted by truthsayer witches tarot(cannon-reed)--scarey muscle men stuffed like sausage into tiny green speedos LOL, you were thinking of the Two/Pentacles when you wrote that, weren't you Truthsayer? As soon as I read it, that card popped into my mind.

Marion	28 Feb 2004
Quote: Originally posted by laura_borealis What if Thomas Kincade did a tarot? *shudder* :D :D omigoodness I hate his art so much, and his prints sell for thousands. arrrggghhh

Marion	28 Feb 2004
Decks I don't like/ get (hate is way too strong a word for talking about decks... for me anyway) Wise Woman's Tarot... strident, wierd ordering. Too 'message-driven' to be tarot you can use. Merlin... mostly it is the ordering that bothers me, and what appears to be inventing new majors. Nicely executed though. And I know that if you love it, you love it (I hope All Is One enjoys my former copy) Enochian tarot, just too wierd. Ugly colours too. Traded it away amd would be very surprised if I was ever moved to try and get it back. Faery Wicca... sorry celtic fans. I just cannot relate to this deck. Like many here, decks I formerly disliked are now among my best-liked (i.e. Thoth) and decks I used to love I now rarely touch. makes lists like this, um, transitory. :) I have never even been tempted by dark or Goth decks, but am sure if I ever bought one it would go straight onto this list.

Dark_angel	28 Feb 2004
Hmmm... I think 'hate' is too strong a word for a lot of my dislikes, but one is definitely worth mentioning... Giger - I love darkness, I love controversy. What I don't love is a bunch of pictures of sick images stuffed together and called Tarot, with no symbolism or respect for tradition. I keep my mind open, but I really don't like things that aim towards the greatest shock value rather than towards meaning.

ros	28 Feb 2004
I dislike nudity on cards. So, what do I do? Get the Leonardo Da Vinci. Lots of nudity there & a very dry deck, BUT it's classy & I like that. I dislike this deck and at the same time I think it is beautiful. I hate when this happens. I agree with what we hate is what we do not understand.

Imagemaker	28 Feb 2004
Quote: The Blue Rose... you can look at the images http://www.tarotpassages.com/pgtar1.htm here) 5 of cups, one of my favorite cards generally, is a giant puzzle here... Is he looking at a tarot deck? Why? Following zorya's post about learning more about Pollack and then loving his art, the above quote hit me because if you know what the picture is, you get the connection with 5 of Cups. I don't remember the specific date, but in Washington DC years ago there was a demonstration--the first huge recognition of all those who had died of AIDS was a quilt project. People from all over the country brought fabric squares memorializing someone who had died. The "quilt" was laid out on the ground near the Washington Monument. The impact of thousands and thousands of colored squares was HUGE and brought home the truth of how many had died of this (then) shocking and hidden disease. The 5 Cups in the Blue Rose commemorates this sorrow--and slightly changes the associations of the card in that there are no filled cups or positives depicted. I don't know the Blue Rose deck, but I'd assume each card has such a meaningful representation that seems pointless unless you've been taught about the event. There are shallow decks and then there are shallow observers--we could all use more depth-training.

Aure	28 Feb 2004
I'm very picky about decks in general and I don't like decks where the people look ugly like if they have giant heads (what's with the black wig that the Queen of Pentacles has in Hanson-Roberts?!) etc. I don't like photographic decks, decks with very dull color and looking like someone colored them with pencils in a hurry or decks with a silly theme (Tarot of Baseball?)..

Imagemaker	28 Feb 2004
Aure, I had to chuckle. You said you dislike decks with giant heads, but your signature quote says, "you have no idea how big your head is"? Hmmmm--there's something interesting going on there :)

crystal cove	28 Feb 2004
Thanks for bumping this post up! I'd never seen it before and I've been LMAO reading it! I can't list all the ones I dislike because I'd be here all day. :D However, my problem with most of them lie in just a few areas. I dislike over-commercialized decks. In this category I'd also put the decks whose creators have nothing original to contribute, and instead rip off another's vision just to make a buck. I *intensely* dislike ;) what has been previously dubbed "fluffy bunny" decks. These decks make me feel that the creator can't deal with life and has to artificially manipulate the human condition. Thank you, no. (I'd LOVE to push the fool in the Robin Wood deck off the cliff myself! And don't even get me started on the Lovers in the same deck!) ;) Last but not least, the decks that I flat out HATE are what I call "boob" decks, ones in which the creator seems to go out of their way to display female nudity. Females are objectified enough in society, I don't need or want it in my decks. The Judgement in the Robin Wood is especially vulgar to me. Not only does the position of the woman remind me of of the scene in "Silence of the Lambs" when the victim is tied up spread eagle at the top of the cage, I don't need to be able to count every last hair in the genital region! I don't have a problem with nudity in and of itself, but make it relevant and tasteful, please!

Demonesse	28 Feb 2004
The Judgement in the Robin Wood is truly vulgar. I don't think she meant to have it come off that way, but to me it looks like a nude girl jumping out of a cake at some bachelor birthday - and while I don't mind nudity in decks, she does not draw genitals tastefully at all. The male in Lovers is an excellent example (of a sausage...or a small banana...poor fellow.)

Aerin	29 Feb 2004
Can't read with: All is One (leaves me saying huh????) Thoth (ditto, leaves me cold) Don't like (and can't read with): Legend Arthurian. I keep expecting all the pretty Hollywood-esque people to burst into song, and I cannot get on with the Hanged Man at all. The card choices don't speak to me. Mermaid. All the cards look very similar to me. It just doesn't evoke much other than 'ooooh! pretty' Witches Tarot. The people put me off, I don't take to the artwork at all. Aerin

The OK - the one you've been waiting for: Packs you love to hate thread was originally posted on 01 Jul 2003 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.