Poll: Unillustrated Minors (pips)

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 21 Jul 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Le_Corsair	21 Jul 2003
Most of the decks I like to use on a daily basis have fully illustrated minor arcana, a' la the RWS. I also like the Tarot of Marseilles, which only employs pips, but I prefer full illustrations for their mnemonic assistance. There are some decks I like but rarely use because the pips aren't illustrated. The Tarot of the Witches by Fergus Hall comes to mind immediately. I have been looking at the Cosmic Tribe Tarot recently, but its lack of illustrated minors is disappointing, and may lead me not to purchase it. How do the rest of you feel? Bob :THERM

wavebreaker	21 Jul 2003
For reading, I prefer decks with illustrated pips. But I also have decks that I bought because I liked the artwork and that happen to have unillustrated pips, like the Old English.

baba-prague	21 Jul 2003
I think it might be useful to distinguish between modern decks and older ones. Obviously I am quite satisfied when an older/historical deck has unillustrated pips (and some of them are evocative in their own way) but to be honest I DO tend to be disappointed when modern decks have unillustrated pips. I don't tend to think that the artist is unimaginative, often it seems more a case of them running out of time (or maybe even in a few cases you get the feeling they lost interest after putting a lot of thought into the Majors). I respect the different opinions of some people here (Diana is particularly articulate on the good aspects of unillustrated pips) but for me - well I love the imagery of tarot and I love to see how different people go about interpreting the Minors (my current "hey that's interesting" is the Karma - not everyone's cup of tea, but unusual and thoughtful takes on some cards)

raeanne	21 Jul 2003
Hi all, I voted for "No Opinion" because to me there are some decks with just pips on the minors that are very well done and some that are badly done. The fact that a deck has unillustrated minors just isn't an issue for me.

darwinia	21 Jul 2003
I prefer illustrated pips and I enjoy the artistic vision of such. It shows leadership and initiative to create an original vision that doesn't adhere to previous trends. History is filled with innovators that were derided and demeaned for their fresh view and curiosity about new things. It's challenging to study divergent decks, and enhances creativity to learn and work with new tarot art. I classify several decks as having semi-illustrated pips, and I also enjoy those. Decks like the Wheel of Change or the Gill are fresh and interesting and have semi-illustrated pips. Neat poll Bob!

truthsayer	21 Jul 2003
i prefer decks with illustrated minors even though diana has explained the purpose behind nonillustrated ones that i found creditable. i am an image oriented person so i find the sameness of pips uninteresting. however, i really like how alexandra genetti did her pip style minors in an illustrated sort of way. i also like how the pips of the thoth deck are done. i sense an intensity in the pips of these 2 decks that i don't find in other non illustrated minors. i would be hard pressed to choose a deck with illustated minors that i think best. but the rws is up there because it seems to be the most copied deck out there and they say copying is the highest form of flattery. historical deck like the marseille definitely have their place. i may not see in non-illustrated minors what their devotees see but vive the difference!

Cerulean	21 Jul 2003
follow different design criteria than modern days. So my no opinion is actually, "if historical, than it it works for the design of the time." If modern, some are done in strange ways. The Merlin deck really has it's own design agenda and the pips could have had some decorative details--because the majors, courts and aces are very well done. 2-10 just don't seem to read well and it's not patterned after an old deck. Perhaps there are those who really can work with this deck, but it's not quite tarot for my tastes. Mari H.

Mimers	21 Jul 2003
Unillustrated PIPs don't deter me from purchasing and using a deck. Some of my favorite reading decks are unillustrated. It allows the Majors to stand out in a reading. A little confession though. There are times when reading with an unillustrated deck that the RW image pops into my head for reference! :) Mimi

WolfSpirit	21 Jul 2003
I read the thread before I voted and I understand minors as in the Thoth and the Wheel of Change tarot are also considered pips - in those cases I can say I am satisfied. I think in time I may prefer them to full scenes - these semi-illulstrated pips leave more room for interpretation while at the same time being very evocative. I read with fully illustrated minors as well, that is also no problem for me. I don't like minors as in playing cards though, with just the same symbol for every card repeated a number of times.

Rusty Neon	21 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by freesiaskye I prefer illustrated pips and I enjoy the artistic vision of such. It shows leadership and initiative to create an original vision that doesn't adhere to previous trends. History is filled with innovators that were derided and demeaned for their fresh view and curiosity about new things. It's challenging to study divergent decks, and enhances creativity to learn and work with new tarot art. I classify several decks as having semi-illustrated pips, and I also enjoy those. Decks like the Wheel of Change or the Gill are fresh and interesting and have semi-illustrated pips. I like the Rider deck and its illustrated pips. I also like modern day semi-illustrated pips that have Golden Dawn/RWS referrable divinatory meanings (e.g., Thoth, Gill, etc.) I also like the Tarot de Marseille. I consider the Tarot de Marseille to have semi-illustrated pips. Its pips differ from each other and aren't just varying numbers of cups/swords with the same background. There are real differences between the individual pips in the TdM deck in terms of design, vegetation, and various random details. All this can stir the imagination.

firemaiden	21 Jul 2003
I confess, I prefer the " 78 pretty pictures in a box" variety of tarot, but I can get a lot out of "moody minors" - like the Crowley. :)

Rusty Neon	21 Jul 2003
Quote: Originally posted by firemaiden I confess, I prefer the " 78 pretty pictures in a box" variety of tarot, but I can get a lot out of "moody minors" - like the Crowley. :) Yes, the Thoth is tarot music in a minor key.

jema	22 Jul 2003
But cosmic tribe DO have illustrated minors, just that they are not people in all of them and they don't follow the Rider-Waite system. That deck has the most beautiful minors! They are thought provocing and inspirational and trigger a lot of ideas. It just takes some time getting used to.

jmd	22 Jul 2003
I prefer pips to be fully illustrated in the style of the Marseilles - ie, fully illustrated with the items which they represent, and embellished with some floral and leaf arrangements ;)

Myrrha	22 Jul 2003
I don't know what I prefer at this point! Part of me dislikes the fully illustrated minors for being overly interpreted. For example the seven of swords is about strategic thinking and the RWS shows an example of strategy but is is such a specific example, I feel locked in to an interpretation when I look at it. On the other hand the flexibility of minors that are not illustrated with such specific examples can be scary I feel like I have less to go on. Probably it is difficult because I have so much more to learn. Also sometimes reading by just looking at the pictures and forgetting they are tarot cards that are supposed to have specific meanings is very effective. But then I feel that it is not tarot anymore and I am missing out on the guidance that those tarot archetypes would have given me it I had had more respect for their "actual meaning". Part of the point is to get in touch with something larger than your own individual intuition, like on the Nigel Jackson Moon card where the little pool next to the dogs becomes a stream between the towers to a larger ocean. Myrrha

Trogon	22 Jul 2003
I also voted for a preference for fully illustrated minors, such as those in the RWS, Spiral, V.R., etc... I find these to be very effective for me for use in readings. They really stimulate my mind (such as it is). I also find that I am seldomly interpreting the same card exactly the same in any two readings. I also find that, with several of the people I read for, certain pictures will evoke certain responses with them and this can add a great deal to a reading. However, I have really "gotten into" the Haindl Tarot as well, with it's "moody" or "semi-illustrated" minors. Having used this deck for several readings now, I am finding that there may be room for less illustration in the minors of some future deck purchases. Though I am still undecided about "going all the way" to a "pip" deck... I may end up changing my mind as I move further down my path...

The Poll: Unillustrated Minors (pips) thread was originally posted on 21 Jul 2003 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.