do any collectors/historians know these decks?
Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 18 Aug 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.
| Mimers |
18 Aug 2003 |
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Hi and thanks for checking this out. I just got back from a weekend getaway and picked up 2 new decks. What I didn't realize is that they were limited edition, numbered decks.
One is a Soprafino Tarot. It is numbered 417/2000 and is titled:
Tarocco Soprafino di F. Gumppenberg, Mialno 1835
Ristampa fedelissima edizioni "Il Meneghello" di O. Menegazzi, Milano 1992
It has Il Mondo card affixed to the box, and is quite a small deck. about 2x4 is my guess. I paid 35 dollars for this one.
The other is a Visconti-Sforza. It is numbered 933/1000. It is titled:
Visconti-Sforza Tarots
Milan - 15th century
Ed "Il Meneghello" - Milano Italy 1996.
This box has the Knight of Wands on the front. The deck is very large. About 3X7 is my guess. This one cost me 50 dollars.
Obviously put out by the same person. They are both packaged in a very sturdy box, both with a card attached to the front. The cards are extremely sturdy. Hardly even bendable. I especially like the Soprafino.
Did I make a great find? or was I ripped off? I really don't know.
Thanks,
Mimi
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| Chronata |
19 Aug 2003 |
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I am digging through my collection of Osvaldo Menegazzi decks right now...(and I am thinking, wow, was this man ever prolific!)
Hmmm...I guess I don't have either of the two you mentioned here.
But thinking about how much these kind of decks (numbered limited editions and all...) usually go for, I would say you got a very good deal!
I bet they are pretty ones too! Sounds to me like the Visconti Sforza is the artists reinterpretation of a historical deck, and that the Soprafino might be a themed deck?
Hard to tell...but then I am a very visual person and I don't speak Italian, so I am really just guessing based on what I have in my own collection!
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| Cerulean |
19 Aug 2003 |
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1. I have the small Soprafino Tarot and paid less through Alidastore.com, but what you have paid is quite fair--the store had to order it and shipping, sales tax, etc...it's a cute carrying deck. The store has a good buyer. It has pastel colors, I believe?
2. There's another circa 1835, with a limited color palette of blues, deep green and brownish tints, there's a set that one can buy with an Italian book through Vecchi (publishers), but it's five to ten dollars more for the set through Alidastore.com, can be around forty dollars after everything.
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One is a Soprafino Tarot. It is numbered 417/2000 and is titled:
Tarocco Soprafino di F. Gumppenberg, "Milano" 1835
Ristampa fedelissima edizioni "Il Meneghello" di O. Menegazzi, Milano 1992
It has Il Mondo card affixed to the box, and is quite a small deck. about 2x4 is my guess. I paid 35 dollars for this one.
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3. I've not compared all the Visconti decks, but Oswald Menegazzi is an elderly gentleman who makes reproductions from a workshop in Milan and many of his decks are available through Tarotgarden.com, Alidastore.com and Trigono.com. So you do have his lovely workmanship, had a nice vacation and lovely Italian decks without the expense of going to Milan. And you encouraged a store to invest in Italian titles for a few dollars more.
Some of his decks have less lamination, at least they have less of the plasticized feel and slickness, so they seem more like paper cards with artistic care to me than coasters
Since the large U.S. Games versions run from the mid-30's to 40 dollars or so, I think you did fine.
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Visconti-Sforza Tarots
Milan - 15th century
Ed "Il Meneghello" - Milano Italy 1996.
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| catlin |
19 Aug 2003 |
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Sounds like a fair and good deal.
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| Mimers |
19 Aug 2003 |
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Originally posted by Chronata
I bet they are pretty ones too! Sounds to me like the Visconti Sforza is the artists reinterpretation of a historical deck, and that the Soprafino might be a themed deck?
Hard to tell...but then I am a very visual person and I don't speak Italian, so I am really just guessing based on what I have in my own collection!
Hi Chronata, and thanks for the info. They both are reproductions, not restorations, and they are beautiful. The Soprafino is much like a Marseilles deck. It says in the LWB that it "originated 1830 when Fernando Gumppenberg...commissioned Carlo Dellarocca to redesign the classic 78 count deck." It got the name Soprafino (very refined) because it was "delicately hand painted"
1. I have the small Soprafino Tarot and paid less through Alidastore.com, but what you have paid is quite fair--the store had to order it and shipping, sales tax, etc...it's a cute carrying deck. The store has a good buyer. It has pastel colors, I believe?
2. There's another circa 1835, with a limited color palette of blues, deep green and brownish tints, there's a set that one can buy with an Italian book through Vecchi (publishers), but it's five to ten dollars more for the set through Alidastore.com, can be around forty dollars after everything
Mari, thank you for the info. I remember reading in a post about your love for this deck. Was it in Yaboot's thread? Anyway, I thought of you when I bought it. It does seem to be reds, blues, greens and browns, definitely not pastels, but rich colors. It is circa 1830. I really love this little deck. I love the Marseilles also, but this one is so much more detailed and beautiful, yet very similar to the Marseille.
Perhaps the Visconti I will trade if anyone is interested. The Visconti decks don't do for me what the Marseille and this Soprafino deck do. The Visconti deck just seems to be missing something for me.
Thanks ladies!
Mimi
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| Emily |
19 Aug 2003 |
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Hi Mimers,
The Ancient Italian and the Classical tarots from Lo Scarabeo are copies of the Tarocco Soprafino 1835 ( this deck is now on my wish list, hopefully before the 2000 decks are sold) what I was wondering is the ISBN number of the Tarocco Soprafino you have. I know Alida still has it in although the Somerville site has sold all of theirs but it would be easier for me to track it down, and make sure I get the one I want, if I have the ISBN number of it - if it has one, thanks :)
Edited to add:-
Not too sure whether the Lo Scarabeo decks should be regarded as copies/clones or just variations on the Tarocco Soprafino as both the Ancient Italian and the Classical look very different to each other and I've only ever seen a couple of the Tarocco Soprafino cards lol :)
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| Mimers |
19 Aug 2003 |
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Hi Emily,
There is no ISBN number on the deck. The packaging seems to be all hand done. There is nothing on the box except the Il Mondo card pasted to the top and a sticker on the side stating the name of the deck and the publisher, Cavallini and Co. I did look at the one at the Alida store, and I am quite certain it is the one I picked up on vacation. There was one other of each at the store. I almost bought both copies of each deck in case someone here was really interested, I could trade, but I was afraid I would get stuck with them.
You should be able to get it from the Alida store, but if you have any problems, let me know, I go to this place every so often and could pick up the other copy for you next time I go.
Mimi
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| Mimers |
19 Aug 2003 |
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Felicityk,
If you would like the Visconti I picked up I would be willing to trade. PM me if you are interested. Or perhaps if you ever go to Mystic, CT I got it there and I know they had at least one more, plus one opened for display
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| Emily |
20 Aug 2003 |
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Hi Mimers,
Yes I checked out the Alida store last night, new experience for me, seems really easy to order from and I think its the only Tarocco Soprafino they sell, with the size and the description I think it must be the same one.
We are having a bank holiday here on Monday and it said it could be 4 to 6 days delivery so I am going to order it on Friday night, a late birthday pressie to myself :), and hopefully get it later on in the week. But thanks for your offer :)
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| Cerulean |
20 Mar 2004 |
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the boxed edition set aside for the U.S. is distributed by Cavallini and Co. and it differs from the one in Alidastore.com by a few details.
I believe the Il Menghello editions will have the title card "Tarocco Soprafino di F. Gumppenberg Milano 1835" and an edition number out of 2000. O. Menegazzi's name and the date of publishing, Milano 1992 is on this card.
I think the gift that I received last year from someone might also be the same version that Mimers wrote about. I located an online link that sells the American version in the box:
http://www.carinacharms.com/cgi-bin/carina/PC2.html
The differences in my two include the following:
1. Packaging: The Alidastore.com version has the pretty ribbon and wraparound bookends (I have the mini-soprafino from Alidastore.com):
2. Instructions. The American one had majors only descriptions on one side of the sheet and elaborate instructions for doing spreads on the other in English. My other Meneghello editions of the Di Gumppenberg have Italian instructions with various differences on the sheets. It took me a while to compare them. I think that the mini-Tarocco did not come with any instructions.
3. Lamination. The American one is unlaminated. The colors on my mini-tarocco is laminated and there's a dark brown frame around the borders, so the colors look more brillant.
Now I finally understand the Filpas review details about both versions.
Just fyi, if anyone wanted to know!
Mari H.
P.S. If anyone ever sees versions by Ill Solleone, these were printed in the 1980s and usually are unlaminated cards...Mark Filpas includes reviews of the ones I know about. I noticed they had different instruction Italian sheets as well..
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The do any collectors/historians know these decks? thread was originally posted on 18 Aug 2003 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.
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