~~A Few Dark Deck Ideas Wanted~~

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 23 Sep 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

All Is One	23 Sep 2003
One of our new members, Requeilla, is interested in buying their first "dark" tarot deck and was wondering which one to start with. Now I know you people fairly well, and one of the things that I love the most about all of you is the generosity with which you all share your knowledge and your opinions! I am certainly not shy about that, myself. So, I'll start by saying that Req owns the following decks now: Sacred Circle and about four others...I will go peek at the "own up" thread then I will fill them in. No dark ones in there. I suggested the Thoth, but I think a bigger list to choose from would be most helpful to R. And ~ I am always on the lookout for dark decks myself! So let's welcome a new member and help get another Taroholic well and truly addicted ;)

All Is One	23 Sep 2003
Here is Requiella's post from "own up": [quote] "It would be nice to find a dark deck whose darkness is more subtle. Maybe what I'm looking for isn't out there, or maybe it is... Some possibilities are: -- Alchemist Tarot (also created by Londa, but better looking than the "Londa" deck), -- Fantastical Tarot -- Tarot Nova (in progress) -- Vertigo Tarot (out of print?) Do you have any dark decks you'd recommend?" [unquote] And here the original "got" post: [quote] Hi all--I just joined last week. My collection includes: Sacred Circle Tarot Tarot of Transformation Goddess Tarot Tarot of the Spirit [unquote] I PM' ed Req and said I would start this thread, because I felt especially humble this morning, and also because I also want to add a few more dark treasures to my collection. Thanks.

catlin	23 Sep 2003
- Vampire Tarot - Giger/Baphomet tarot by H.R. Giger and Akron - Black Tarot by Luis Rojo Pl tell her that most of the dark decks are more collector's items than real reading decks (IMO).

All Is One	23 Sep 2003
Black Tarot? Great, Catlin! Never heard ot it...off to check it out and then off to the dentist...

raeanne	23 Sep 2003
Hi, Could you define what you mean by a ‘dark deck’? I have learned that this term means different things to different people. To some people it simply means a deck with a lot of black or dark colors on the cards. To other people it might mean a deck with blood, vampires, goblins, or ghouls on it. Other people might view a ‘dark deck’ as any deck that touches on humanities evil nature. The darkest of the dark might be a deck that knows the difference between right and wrong and chooses wrong anyway.

All Is One	23 Sep 2003
In a rush now- but thought it was a great questi0on! Best I can do is say that everyone should probably look at their own view of tarot decks and their collection and see if there is any obvious delineation between the happy pastel Hanson-Roberts, or the Art Nouveau by Matt Myers, and the other sort... Thoth, the Legend Arthurian (certainly not evil, but a dark - ER deck) the Tarot of the Master... ummm... the colors send a mood, but that was not my own consideration. Now I am going to think about the coloring as part of the "dark" category. How about anyone else-? Kaz was the first person to use the phrase to me, and I hope Requeilla will jump in here and add a personal defination of a dark tarot. ~just looked at the Black Tarot...very vivid, wish there were more cards represented. NOTE: I have not ever seen any satanic tarot, evil tarot, etc... and hope I never do.

Inannadescends	23 Sep 2003
There are good suggestions in this thread. The topic is dark decks. http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15797 I use The Vampire Tarot now, and will be getting the Victoria Regina soon ( I hope!) The VR isn't dark but the black and white sets a mood in the deck that I love. www.thefool.com A dark deck to me is one that has a certain atmosphere about it, it doesn't necessarily have to be blood and gore. Of course I'm not one to talk with my Vampire Tarot and all. :D I don't know if dark means gothic to you but take a look at this one, I haven't used it but it is visually stunning to me. Although the darkness isn't exactly subtle. ;) http://www.monolithgraphics.com/pages/tarot.html Happy Hunting! ~Kathy~

Tallarico	23 Sep 2003
Dark Deck? Vampire Tarot or Gothic Tarot

HudsonGray	23 Sep 2003
Terrestrial Tarot, that and the Baphomet one.

All Is One	23 Sep 2003
Wow, Innana, that knocked my socks off. Tops on my wish list now is the Gothic and the Fortume Cards. $15.00 and free shipping is a good deal, too. Thanks for that link- a fun site. (There went another hour...lol)

Requiella	23 Sep 2003
I love this list so far... people ask questions *for* you! :D Seriously, I appreciate All Is One starting this thread, and I thank everyone for their input so far. I hadn't even checked the forum all day, and here I come home to a great list of suggestions. I think I'm gonna like it here... Anyway, a little clarification of "dark": As Raeanne pointed out, "dark" means different things to different people. What I'm NOT interested in is an evil deck--either one that showcases human evil at the expense of everything else, or one that "knows the difference between right and wrong and chooses wrong anyway," to quote Raeanne. Dark to me is more of an overall feel, or a tone that the cards evoke. This can be achieved through color, symbolism, or simply stylistic elements of the art. Wow, this is pretty difficult to articulate. Another aspect of "dark" that interests me is art in tarot that conveys the undercurrents of melancholy or suffering that run through the human condition--not necessarily evil, but more misfortune. A good tarot deck, imo, should contain both "light" and "dark" elements. In other words, a fair depiction of life itself. I'll probably post more on this when my ideas crystalize a bit more. For now, I'm off to look at your suggestions.

Dark_angel	23 Sep 2003
Personally, I love the Gothic Tarot by Joseph Vargo. You can see pictures of it at Tarotgarden, I think. It's gorgeous and best of all, it's so easy to read with. The Gothic Tarot that's better-known (I can't remember who it's by, but it;s the one on this site) is beautiful, but I think it's harder to read with due to the concept of the deck. The Vertigo Tarot is DIVINE, although I'm too in love with it to make it a regular reading deck. If you want a not conventionally dark deck, the Adrian Tarot might appeal. It's not dark in colour or theme, but it sheds a lot of light on human nature. There's a couple of quite dark decks in progress, too, and you can see some of them in the Decks section here; I'm saving up for the day they're published. xxx

Requiella	23 Sep 2003
Quote: Originally posted by All Is One Wow, Innana, that knocked my socks off. I'll second that! This deck is one I'm definitely going to pick up too. Thanks for the great suggestion.

Dark Inquisitor	24 Sep 2003
The Lo Scarabeo Secret Tarot is kind of dark without being evil or gorey. It has a nice mysterious atmosphere to it. Tarotphelia

Le_Corsair	24 Sep 2003
You might try the Bosch tarot! Bob :THERM

All Is One	24 Sep 2003
Thank You to Kaz, who sent me the link to the deck that she was so cool as to send me a while back. This is a fascinating hand drawn deck, black and white without being grainy or washed out at all. I lost the link and was trying every combination I could come up with. If memory serves, all the cards are shown full size on the site. <http://www.crossroads.wild.net.au>

All Is One	24 Sep 2003
Forgot how MUCH there is to that very well done web site. In case you go to the above link and get entranced by the spooky flash effects and the scary voices coming out of your computer...the direct way to the Chaos deck photos as well as their interpretations, is: <http://www.crossroads.wild.net.au/tarot.htm>

Requiella	24 Sep 2003
Oh my! This is quite the deck. Too bad it's a limited edition. The artwork is so dramatic... Guess my challenge is to find someone who has a copy they wouldn't mind parting with.

All Is One	24 Sep 2003
The site made reference to a re-printing some time in 2003...I was so busy going through all their links (the Labyrinth!!!) I didn't get the date. Maybe we can get more suggestions from this thread...it is working like a (ahem) charm so far.

Requiella	24 Sep 2003
Does anyone (Tarotphelia?) know where one might be able to find this deck? I've found other decks by this person, but not the "Secret" deck.

Dark Inquisitor	25 Sep 2003
Secret Tarot pix & reviews : http://www.wicce.com/segretipix.html http://www.tarotpassages.com/secret.htm purchase link: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0738700215/qid=1064463367/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-4387295-2023209?v=glance&s=books

Cerulean	25 Sep 2003
Mark Filipas: (many pictures) http://www.spiritone.com/~filipas/Masquerade/Reviews/secrets.html Michele Jackson: http://www.tarotpassages.com/secret.htm Lee Bursten: http://www.tarotpassages.com/bursten46.htm Jo-Anne Penn-Kast : http://www.tarotpassages.com/secrets-jpk.htm Thread by Firemaiden discusses deck: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11190&highlight=nizzoli Marco Nizzoli is said to be an illustrator and the deck has a very smooth, silky finish that goes well with glossy, quirky and somewhat other-worldly images (some of the people have unusual noses or coloring--but not too distorted. The women and men on the whole are actually rather slim and idealized--although a few of the characters might remind you of graphic novels). I like the deck and pull it out every few months. Has an engaging storyline that actually goes well with tarot meanings...oddly, I forget if it has a Marseilles Justice 8/Strength 11 numbering or not. Mari Hoshizaki P.S. Lo Scarabeo art decks are amazing for the price. You might find a few on Amazon.com or abebooks.com as well for good mass publication prices.

galadrial	25 Sep 2003
Well, here are a couple of decks that might surprise you in that they are not visually dark in the manner of the Vertigo, Book of Chaos or Lovecraft decks, which, when it comes to actually reading with them, aren't particularly "dark". The Jolanda's Swedish Witch and the Buckland Romani. Neither deck pulls any punches. If joyous, up energy is really around they will reflect that, but if anything dark is going down, these two decks will make that abundantly clear. The darkest reading I've done yet was a relationship spread I did this summer for my mom. I used the Swedish Witch deck, and the energy from that spread was so disquieting that I had a nightmare about it (the only time I've had a nightmare about a tarot reading). Also, kudos to the spread, which was Umbrae's Relationship Spread: www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9978 I really love both of these decks, but they are not for anyone shy about dark or ugly truths.

All Is One	25 Sep 2003
Hi Galadrial, I am trying to find pictures of the Swedish Witch deck and must be entering the name wrong...tried Jolanda's...Could you give exact name or a link? I have wanted the Buckland-Romani deck for so long, it makes me sure I want it to hear your comments.

galadrial	26 Sep 2003
Hi All Is One, Here are some links to two reviews on tarotpassages, plus a thread from the forum: www.tarotpassages.com/swedishwitch.htm www.tarotpassages.com/SwedishWitch-MM.htm www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15370 The forum thread has a link to another thread in which the keywords were translated to English, as the keywords and LWB are in Swedish. The deck is Thoth based and should be pretty intuitive to use if you are familiar with that deck (or, of course, if you use all decks intuitively and don't bother with the books:-) Don't be fooled by the cartoon style and cute animals, this is a very direct deck; no-nonsense as one user who pm'd me called it. The only place I've found to get it is from www.saxo.com . Click on one of the flags; on the page that comes up, the search is in the upper left hand corner. Pick ISBN from the drop down menu; the number is 9170549478, no hyphens. From there it works like any other shopping cart, including one point where you type in your email address and choose a password (that part almost threw me, but I guessed correctly). The shipping is more than the deck itself (to California, anyway), and my total, once converted, was around $40.00. If you need help, their email is saxo@saxo.com . I emailed them to ask if they had gotten my order and whether I'd filled it out correctly and they emailed me right back to say yes on both counts. The deck arrived quickly, too; within a couple of weeks.

All Is One	26 Sep 2003
I went to all the links and even downloaded images of the deck to save in my wishlist file. Hans is a great artist, I loved all his work - tarot- erotic - trolls- Woouldn't it be cool if he did a Troll Tarot? The reviews and sample reading were really well written - was the author our own Diana or someone else, I wonder. $40.00 is more than I can spend on it right now...but I need a wish list just to have something to ponder, so this deck and the Gothic Tarot are added, with the Buckland-Romani, meanwhile - excited about the SC.

Requiella	28 Sep 2003
I'd like to thank everyone for their contributions to this thread--you've all given me lots of great ideas. At this point, my favorites among those suggested are: - victoria-regina (just bought this one) - gothic (vargo) - Bosch - Vertigo - Tarot of Secrets - Book of Chaos Now comes the hard part: figuring out how many my budget can handle... I'm keeping them all on my wish list for now; maybe I can get one a month! ...And thanks again to All Is One for starting this thread :) In darkness, Requiella ;)

lunaperse	29 Sep 2003
how can we think of dark stuff without thinking of gorey and the fantod?

Dark_angel	29 Sep 2003
I don't nevessarily think that decks like the Gothic or the Vampire Tarot are gory. A lot of material in the genre on which they are superficially based is indeed full of blood and guts, but a deck like the Vargo Gothic reads more like a Bronte romance to me than like a mainstream horror novel. I think the way you see any deck depends on the way you approach it. If you look at a deck like the Gothic Tarot expecting to see violence and death, then that's what you see, because you are unable to see the dark beauty and romance within the deck. If you look at a deck like the Fey Tarot and expect to see harmless cartoon images, again that's all you see. It's all to do with your willingness to look with an open mind. Note: 'you' is used instead of 'one', rather than being directed at anyone. It's just an idiosynchrosy (sp?) of mine. xxx

Umbrae	29 Sep 2003
Let’s see, the Vargo Gothic rocks. I love the Giger. One deck that you haven’t covered and it’s wonderful is: Mage: The Ascension. Forget its association with a role playing game…buy it – use it – love it. I like the semi Sci-Fi/Graphic Novel design. Cool deck.:smoker:

All Is One	29 Sep 2003
Umbrae - I am going to go check out the Mage deck, but first - thanks for mentioning the Giger... I originally bought it because I got back into vinyl records in a big way about 3 yrs ago and got a 50 cent copy of the ELP album Brain Salad Surgery. I am not a huge ELP fan - I bought it just for the cool Giger drawing on the album cover. When I saw Kaz's list of fav decks a yr and a half ago I saw the Giger on it, and wanted it. I expected cards like the depictions on AT or like the album cover. Ha. That deck blew the lid right off my smug little fantasy that I knew my darker nooks and crannies. I learned so much about my own nest of inner vipers, fears, and hidden hang-ups from working with the Giger! It is dark in the sense of repressed images kind of dark...like Jim Morrison's "Kill the Father..." dark... I think of it as Freudian Horror Art Therapy. Do you read with it? I read with it for me. I have yet to find more than one person who would allow me to read for them with the Giger...and after that they chose the Fairies Oracle from them on!

SerenityRose	29 Sep 2003
Oh hey everyone! I'm new to the whole tarot thing, but my friend (who's also sending me the Sacred Circle deck! YAY!), and one of the decks she bought was the Thoth deck... she said she couldn't even HOLD it. I think the deck was too overwhelming to her, she's just looking forward to getting rid of it! She said she had to place it on inside an empty cookie jar at her cupboard, cause she could feel it if it was in her room. LOL I thought it was interesting. She wanted to send it to me, but she's from Sweden, so it was in Swedish (the Sacred Circle deck is in English though). So she didn't send it to me. But I think unless she finds someone who wants it, she'll just throw it away. She got it used, though, from a pagan woman she met, like 8 decks for 80 dollars or so. So I don't think she'll be too sad on throwing it away! Ok, maybe a bit off topic, but it was just to say that I believe that the person behind the deck sends energy to the deck as well. So maybe a rather 'darker' person would create a darker deck. I have no idea of who Aleister Crowley was, so I can't say this is the case. Anyway, just a thought from a newbie! hehe! Cheers!

Le_Corsair	29 Sep 2003
Quote: Originally posted by SerenityRose Ok, maybe a bit off topic, but it was just to say that I believe that the person behind the deck sends energy to the deck as well. So maybe a rather 'darker' person would create a darker deck. I have no idea of who Aleister Crowley was, so I can't say this is the case. Anyway, just a thought from a newbie! hehe! Cheers! My very dear, they don't make them much darker than Aleister Crowley. Read up on him sometime! Bob :THERM

All Is One	29 Sep 2003
Actually, I was wondering - SerenityRose - what your friend might know or sense about the woman who sold her the 8 decks. The energy your friend might be picking up on from a used Thoth may have a lot more to do with what that particular deck was used for and what kind of person has been using it. I don't know a lot about Crowley as a person, but I like some of his writing and I love the Thoth deck. I heard on this forum that Dr. Seuss hated children and a few other unpleasant details on him...but you'll never get me to stop loving the Cat in the Hat or Horton Hears a Who.

Le_Corsair	01 Oct 2003
It is for sale on Ebay, you can see it here. Bob :THERM

Cerulean	28 Nov 2003
I still like the Tarot of Secrets, but I found a new favorite for a cinematic edge, kind of like a modern film noir with cityscape atmosphere, a theme of humanity and street darkness, the use of a 'vampire' anithero...in terms of theme and modern edge, for me, this surpasses the grotesque Bosch and oddly surreal Tarot of Secrets with the different mix of period and modern dress... Gothic Vampire Tarot by Lo Scarabeo...too bad it came out later than Halloween...but maybe next year... Mari H.

The ~~A Few Dark Deck Ideas Wanted~~ thread was originally posted on 23 Sep 2003 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.