Witchy Tarot

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 10 Oct 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

catlin	10 Oct 2003
Yesterday I saw the first copy of this deck in my fav book store and what I saw on some cards made me furious: eg, there is one card depicting some teen witches celebrating and near their bonfire lie some empty and crushed coke cans. On another card you see some teen witches spraying graffiti on some old menhirs or poking a sleeping bat with sticks! Well, I think this is another proof that there are often ppl designing decks who have no idea of the spiritual meaning. I think this is rather bad publicity for the Old Path.

Sulis	10 Oct 2003
I haven't actually seen this deck but I've read some reviews and yes, it does seem pretty dire. You can see a review at Tarot Passages by Diane Wilkes HERE. The sad thing is that teenagers, new to witchcraft or Wicca and keen to get into tarot will probably end up buying this awful deck because it's supposedly aimed at them. Love and light Sulis xx

Astraea	10 Oct 2003
I used to love almost all Lo Scarabeo cards because of their great beauty -- and some of their decks (such as the Fey) are really wonderful and could easily become classics. However, LS frequently exploits popular themes and subjects, producing cards that are empty of understanding at best (even though they are sometimes charming in their naivete) and offensive, at worst. The Witchy Tarot appears to be among the latter.

catlin	10 Oct 2003
I really hope to see Mr Pignatello from LoScarabeo on the book fair to have some words with him because the last time I met him he was very interested in learning what the AT thinks about the decks.

Diana	10 Oct 2003
Please tell him to tell the big boss, whoever he is, to respect Tarot a bit more. One should not turn everything into a Money Machine..... and contribute therefore to one of the Keys To Wisdom being cheapened in the public eye. A few less Tarot decks produced a year may bring them less cash, but it would give their company more prestige. Some of the stuff that is churned out from their production line is quite ridiculous. You can give him my name if you want. edited to add: You can tell him that there is at least one person on Aeclectic (me) who tries to avoid buying their stuff because of the way they are exploiting Tarot.

Dark_angel	10 Oct 2003
I can't quite see the actual relevance of this deck to tarot, and I'm not too keen on the lack of pagan imagery/misinterpretation of paganism/witch-bashing(?). However, it does have two very small redeeming features, that make me smile when I see it (although, I'm not a pagan, so what I look at and disapprove of may be offensive to others). 1. It looks like Sabrina the Teenage Witch Plays Tarot, which is quite sweet really, especially if, like me, you loved the show. 2. It's so well-aimed at its target audience that it could become quite popular. I know some young people are encouraged and supported in exploring tarot and similar things, but many are mocked if they show an interest. A deck like this is more "school and parent friendly" as well as showing something that all little girls like - lots of pretty girls that they can say "ooooh, I want to be like her". I think it could serve as a good stepping stone for modern girls who have no previous knowledge of paganism or tarot, to get them interested in tarot. xxx

Shade	10 Oct 2003
Now now, be nice... wait I forgot it's a message board. Just to stay grounded when I see something lik ethis I remind myself that there is chocolate and vanilla for a reason... we can't all feel the same way about everything.... and for those who can there is neopolitan. I look at this deck like I look at Diney's Hercules. I loved the movie and thought just about everything in it is adorable. HOWEVER I have been reading Greek Myths since I was 8 years old so I know what is truly authentic and what is a fabrication. So while I love the movie for myself I do worry about kids who will see it and think that Hera is Hercules's mother, or that the Fates and the grey sisters are the same people. I've taken a couple of college classes in mythology and ancient civilizations and I cringe everytime a fellow student has gotten their info from Clash of the Titans (another one I kinda like). So the deck looks like it might be fun for me to have but then I'm going to have to put up with people (of all ages) who don't know anything beyond pointy hats and midriffs. Not everyone takes paganism and Wicca as seriously as some of us here and we are forever goiog to have to put up with the IRABO (I Read A Book Once) tradition with their rituals carved out of the movie The Craft or Mists of Avalon (not hating on the book it just isn't a sourcebook for pagansim as some have used it. So hopefully some of the informed people can enjoy it and somme of the uninformed will get curious and learn more as another suggested. I have more hope for LS's forthcoming Pagan Tarot though.

Asher	10 Oct 2003
Taking a deep breath... Just got the deck today and tore it open, expecting to be insulted (I am Pagan)...but instead, in many ways it _is_ quite charming. It is _not_ designed to be a serious, "official" Pagan/Wiccan deck; which, given the diversity of the community, would be nearly impossible. The "graffitti on the menhir" -- look again. There is nothing at all suggesting that it's anything more than a boulder in the woods, where the young witches are adorning it with magickal symbols (sun, goddess spiral, etc.) perhaps to create an outdoor altar. The crushed soda cans...left by inconsiderate campers _before_ the witch arrived at the stone circle, where she is smudging the area clean (and will clean up the cans before ritual). One card that _did_ cause me to do a double take is the Trial of Boulders (King of Pentacles) where a blacksmith-y like character has just _branded_ a young witch on her upper thigh/gluteus. Yuk! And the branding iron is still smoking... It _is_ very Sabrina, with a touch of Bewitched thrown in. I would have liked to have seen more men depicted (there are some). But, one _interesting_ thing...in an effort to get this to press, it appears that Lo Scarabeo inadvertently switched the images of Justice and Strength. In the card labeled Strength, a young witch, owl on shoulder, holds an athame and a _scales_, while on the card labeled Justice, the young with lifts a piece of mandrake (LWB) to defend herself from a fangs-bared cat and dog! Wonder if LS will issue a reprint, in the same way that the 1st printing of the Vision Quest deck (Meuller) spelled "Three" as "Tree"? (is everyone rushing to check their decks?...grin) Not a dreadful deck, nor one I will probably work with much (other than during October, to give my Halloween deck a well-deserved rest -- that is a wonderful deck). I'm enjoying the difference of opinions! It's all about perspective...if the Goddess/God did not have a sense of humor, I would probably have been divinely zapped long ago!

Cerulean	10 Oct 2003
and it's probably another thread, but I'll be interested to people talking about their reactions to the Pagan Tarot from LS when it comes out with Gina Pace's participation (Wicce.com). I was curious about this deck, but can pass on it. Strangely, I ended up loving the Mermaids, which I thought was going to be a pretty face. Best, Mari H.

catlin	14 Oct 2003
Ok, guys, I had a very nice chat with Mr Pignatello on the Frankfurt book fair. He was really concerned when I told him what was bothering us about the Witchy tarot and he expressed again the serious interest of LoScarabeo to satisfy their buyers. He promised me to look into this matter. I'd like to get some more feed-back from you what could be improved on this deck.

Dark_angel	14 Oct 2003
Okay, improvements? Ummmm, well, I'll probably get called a prudish Brit for this, but maybe more clothes. Scantily clad girls just don't say "tarot" to me, and it doesn't seem necessary to the theme of the deck, which seems to be young women exploring paganism and tarot. xxx

Xarokys	16 Oct 2003
I got the Witchy Tarot a few days ago and I don't think its too bad. It doesn't strike me as a "serious" deck, but one to have some fun with. I see it as something a group of giggling young teens at a slumber party can play with, tell each others' fortunes and have fun. The target customer for this deck has just outgrown Barbie dolls, so I don't think the scanty clothing and voluptuous figures will be too much of a shock to them. Heck, looking at these cards made me remember what it was like to be a teenager, and anything that can make me feel young is worth spending few bucks on. :D

Shade	16 Oct 2003
So uh question... are any of the witches in the deck male? Or is it a girls only deal. Neo-paganism from my experience tends is exceedingly more popular among women and I get that as whenever I've worked with pagan groups men make up less than one third of the populaion and within my own tradition there are only two males and we are fairly new additions. So I get why this would be a mianly female deck but I was hoping one or two male witches make it in.

Cerulean	16 Oct 2003
asked if I had seen it, he thought it was hilarious. He said the card showing the brand and thong-like undies just didn't seem a good idea for his seventeen year old daughter in the U.S...he mentioned one card with three women that was a little too over the top, but he didn't say what exactly might be offensive or strange to American audiences. His daughter wanted to do a paper related to tarot other than fortunetelling, but he's not choosing any Lo Scarabeo decks for her to use... but might give her examples from literature-based tarots (Shakespearean Oracle, etc.). I told him the Women of the Golden Dawn book by Mary Greer was safe, as Yeats and tarot studies would be more interesting and different for a high school paper. Mari H.

lasourciere	16 Oct 2003
I think it's kind of funny that people think teenagers need *special* Tarot decks and the like. 'Cause we aren't mature enough to read the regular decks? Riiiiight. Maybe people don't realize that teenagers today are a lot more mature, a lot more jaded, and a lot less innocent than teenagers of the past. I can look at decks like the Tarot Erotica and Casanova without even flinching. No big deal. I find it pretty amusing that people like to pass out cutesy watered-down versions of cards like that. I also find the whole teenybopper Wicca thing really annoying and this only seems to encourage it. I think if you want to pursue something as serious as Wicca and Tarot, you need something a little less shallow than "The Super-Cool Grrlie Guide to Making Boys Like You."

Demonesse	16 Oct 2003
It's very... 'Harry Potter/Charmed (ugh!) + adolescent sexuality + Tarot'. Is there a cheerleader witch in there, maybe? :P I know this deck can be fun, but I can just imagine parents getting all the wrong ideas when they see their kids with THIS deck - and what's worse, is that with this deck their ideas might actually be justified... Lo Scarabeo isn't a first-time publisher. Simply, it should know better. It might work as a parody deck, though. :P

catlin	17 Oct 2003
Ok, guys so you gave me some feed-back. May I use it in quotations with your nicks in the mail I will send to LoScarabeo or would you have any objections to that?

Kiama	17 Oct 2003
I agree with lasourciere: what's wrong with giving us teens 'normal' Tarot decks? Mostly they're alot easier to use than some of the 'teen Tarot decks' I've seen on the market, and they're alot less patronising. Give us a Rider Waite, Robin Wood, Thoth... heck anything that doesn't go changing the Tarot to something completely unrecognisable! (What's with the Trial thing for the Kings in this deck?! The Court cards are the most difficult cards in the deck to read, and here we have a deck aimed at beginners/teenagers, making them even more difficult! Mind you, this is coming from somebody who has no qualms with giving her 12 year-old sister a Thoth deck, so make of it what you will! ;) One thing I will say about this deck is that: 1) No, we teens do not spend all our evenings sitting in trees wearing hardly anything 2) No, we do not own pointy hats and wear them all the time 3) And no, we're not all lesbians! (That's what it looks like in some of the cards I've seen in this deck!) Sorry to spoil anybody's dreams there. ;) Kiama

Voodoo_Shaman	18 Oct 2003
Okay first of all I am neither a Wiccan or onto the American Form of Witchcraft, I am a Santero of Ochun and practice Santeria. My point here is that, this Witchy Tarot that I do not own or have seen, reflects how young Witches are being portrayed and actually are acting. In major traditiones around the world including Santeria. Younger apprentices learn from their Elders, this is a general rule with everything. My Mother and Father raised me, I did not have to be raised by a book. So to me this Witchy Tarot deck is really reflecting what is happening with American Witchcraft within the past 10 - 15 years or so. Where are the Elders? Without Elders to guide and teach, you are going to have a bunch of kids purchasing books, and watching badly made movies of Witchcraft does give Wicca a bad name. I respect Wicca, and American Paganism, but I have to say where are the Elders. Most, “not all” younger Witches do not have teachers, the only teacher they have are the badly written books that are sold a dime a dozen in any book store. I have seen images of this deck, the art is interesting, and we must be honest, it does represent darker stage or chapter in which Witchcraft i s appearantly going through. In stead of complaining about it, we as Elders need to be a bit more responsible, and look at the sins that are all around us. In Hispanic Curanderismo, Brujeria, Santeria, and even Vudon, a young apprentice can not learn without a proper Elder. Period. But we have o be honest and alway look at both sides. Sometimes Elders can be as deviant and as Charlatans as any one else. This goes into every spiritual path in the world. My point here, as this is an important deck, and it is giving us signs, that things must change. How can a student learn in school without proper supervision from a teacher/ How can a college student learn without a professor? You simply can not expect to progress and learn. This is the same with all forms of Witchcraft, no matter the path. The Witchy Tarot is a reflection of what is happening. If you purchased it, it is because you have some form of interest in Witchcraft. If you have some form of interest in Witchcraft, and these images bother you, then take the hint. Stop complaining, and begin to make positive changes, start at home, or with the young witches in your home. My two cents. Voodoo Shaman

VGimlet	19 Oct 2003
I got this deck a few days ago, but didn't have a chance to look at it until last night, after reading all these posts. I wasn't quite sure what to make of it. I got a very lighthearted feel from the deck for most of the cards, although there were a few images I found disturbing (and justice and strength being switched around was disturbing too :D .) I could see how someone who practices Wicca might be offended. Then I went to bed and had the funniest dream....the empress poked her head out of her card and told me, in my old 'parents are soooo stupid' voice, "Lighten UP! You would have totally loved me when you were thirteen, and you know it! And even though you might not like everything about me, I still have some things to tell you." And then we went off and had a kind of Christmas-carol like adventure in my memories that I won't go into here, because this thread is, really, about the cards. So, okay, fine. LOL. I'm going to give it a chance, even if it was the pain meds talking and not the cards.

Cerulean	19 Oct 2003
The cards being discussed were designed in Italy by Lo Scarabeo. I don't think American ideals were consulted on this. Catlin actually was talking about a European book fair, not an American one, if I am not mistaken. Another deck that is coming out next year, the American Gina Pace is working with Lo Scarabeo on the Pagan Tarot, coming out next year. Sorry if a former mention of this seemed confusing. Mari H.

Shade	21 Oct 2003
So uh... still haven't gotten an answer, are there male witches in the deck?

VGimlet	21 Oct 2003
A few - The hierophant is an older male witch, the hermit might be male, actually now I'm looking through it again, there are quite a few men in the deck, although it feels like the deck is from a female perspective.

Kiama	22 Oct 2003
Just as a point of interest for JohnnyVoodoo: I'm in a Pagan group where the majority of members are actually male. But after talking to alot of Pagans from other groups, apparantly this is very rare to see. Paganism, in particular Wicca, seems to be more popular with females than males at the moment, especially amongst teenagers, so this would definitely account for the fact that most of the witches in this deck are female. Kiama

Shade	22 Oct 2003
Yeah I'm one of 2 guys in a group of about 20 split between 2 covens and an apprentice circle. I would expect any deck using Wicca or Witchcraft as its theme to primarily have female figures in it however I was hoping one or two male witches would show up and not just as the traditional male cards like Emperor. When I saw images for the Pagan Tarot coming out next year I noticed most of the figures shown were female but a couple of men were in the scenes. I'm actually thinking of getting te deck.

purplelady	22 Oct 2003
I wish I were a teenager again so I could become a teenage-witch. I would wear cool clothes like halter tops and low cut tight pants with chain belts, platform sandals , and I would pierce my naval. BUT the best part is I would wear a pointy old witches hat 24 hours a day! I would even wear the pointy witch-hat while performing my rituals sky-clad, just so everyone would know , for sure, I am a witch. Witches Always have to have a funky, doofy, pointy hat on! I just may end up with this deck someday anyhow though!

Shade	24 Oct 2003
So I am reminded of an artice I was shown about a year ago called "Is Yoga Killing Yoga" that asked the question was Yoga as a deeply spiritual practice hurt by all of the yuppies turning to it for tight firm bodies. I believe it also mentioned the effect of having spokespeople for Yoga like Madonna who is actually interested in theh spiritual dimensions of Yoga but who attract droves of devotees who don't know their chakras from their shakti. I think that I could use the Witchy Tarot and enjoy it but will it be fueling the IRABO tradition (I Read A Book Once). Since most of the folks posting here are serious tarot enthusiasts what do youthink of the people who have no ambition to ever get beyond reading out of the LWB? When I show people shopping at my store the various tarot books I used to always show them Tarot Made Easy and explain how stifling it might be to only look up two sentences in the Relationshop Readings or Communication Readings line but most of the time they'd say "Oh that looks great!"

Demonesse	24 Oct 2003
LOL purplelady!!! You practically had me rolling on the floor. :D

catlin	27 Oct 2003
Icks, purplelady, you made my day! Ok, I wrote a nice e-mail to LoSacab to point out the major flaws in this deck. I am lookingn forward to their reply and will keep you posted.

MeeWah	28 Oct 2003
I saw a few sample cards of this deck online a while ago, & liked it immediately. I intend to get it eventually as it strikes me as fun to use, as is the Tarot of Cats & the Halloween Tarot. Whilst I may not be qualified to comment because I have not seen the entire deck, it seems the deck is being viewed prejudiciously. It reminds me of how Silver RavenWolf's book, "Teen Witch" was viewed (which I found well-conceived). There is nothing inherently wrong in a publication that is apparently targeted for an "adolescent" audience; nor for "the young at heart". Nor is the use of non-traditional images completely lacking in value. If nothing else, it can encourage those new to Tarot to explore further; to those already familiar to appreciate the myriad of possible interpretations on not only the artistic level, but on the general subject of Tarot.

MeeWah	28 Oct 2003
PurpleLady: Been there, done that--albeit minus the belly-button piercing--through my twenties :)

Shade	29 Oct 2003
I actually also didn't have a problem with Silver Ravenwolf's books though I don't think anyone should only use one author as their only source (neither does Silver whose books have extensive suggested reading lists). I think some people take exception to things in the deck that do not reflect the ay they feel about Wicca. I only worry about people who will begin and end their research with the deck. In the example with Silver Ravenwolf, she wouldn't want anyone to take her books and feel like they have all they need to be a pagan but some people do just buy her books, read them haphazardly, usuallly without doing all of the exercizes she outlines, for them and then misrepressent Wiccans.

catlin	29 Oct 2003
MM Johnny Voodoo, It was the misrepresentation which drove me nuts about this deck.

The Witchy Tarot thread was originally posted on 10 Oct 2003 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.