Gay Tarot

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 07 Nov 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Lee	07 Nov 2003
As Riccardo mentioned in another thread, Lo Scarabeo will be publishing the Gay Tarot, authored by Lee Bursten (that’s me!), with art by Antonella Platano, in the latter part of 2004. This deck will be a gay-male-themed deck. It was my intent to focus specifically on gay men because I am one. Lo Scarabeo had originally planned to do a gay-and-lesbian deck, but I felt that lesbians have their own story and their own experience and it would be presumptuous for me to assume that I could do justice to it. Also, there are many woman-oriented decks out there, and some woman-only decks, but no men-only decks, so I thought this would be something new. Actually, I’m generally in favor of gender balance in decks. However, just as the Motherpeace deck provides a comforting, self-empowering tool for women, I wanted to provide a similar tool for another often-oppressed group, that is, gay men. Some people will no doubt see this deck as a “politically correct,” “feel-good” deck, and to these charges I plead guilty. I wanted to help gay men feel good about themselves in a society where they are often not given that opportunity. It’s not a fluffy deck, however; there are still negative cards, so as to provide an accurate reflection of life. It’s a contemporary deck, with a modern setting. Not every card specifically references gay life; some simply show men in various settings, reflecting the fact that while sexual identity is an important part of life, it’s not the only part. Men are shown in many different occupations, showing that gay men are not restricted to stereotypical professions. The deck is fully multicultural, because of course there are gay men in every culture in the world. The Minors are fully illustrated. The placement of the figures on the Minors echoes that of the Rider-Waite-Smith deck but what’s actually going on in the cards is often very different. Each of the numbered cards also relates in some way to the correspondingly-numbered Major card. The art is by Antonella Platano, who did the art for the Witchy Tarot. She’s still creating the cards, so I haven’t seen most of them, although I have seen the Majors and I think they’re wonderful. If the deck is at all successful, it will be because of her terrific talent. It’s not a pornographic deck. Sexuality is referenced but in a PG-rated way. :) I must say, Riccardo Minetti and the folks at Lo Scarabeo have been very good to me. After I designed the cards and wrote the LWB, they’ve continued to consult with me on aspects of production like the box cover. They listen to and respect my opinions, which is very gratifying. I feel a little as if I won the lottery; I never expected that I would be able to join the ranks of published deck authors, and I’m quite grateful to LS and to Riccardo in particular for making this possible. I’m also grateful to Antonella; it’s an indescribable feeling, to see one’s ideas come to life in the hands of a talented artist. I’ll see if I can make some scans available for people to see. Meanwhile, I’d be happy to answer any questions about the deck, and any comments at all are welcome, positive or negative! -- Lee

Scorpion	07 Nov 2003
That's fantastic news, Lee - congratulations! What a wonderful achievement! I shall eagerly await this deck and look forward to seeing some images as soon as they are available. You are right, a deck like this is long overdue - strong feminine decks are easy to come by but it certainly seems to me that there hasn't been much for the gay man. From what you say, it sounds as though LS are considering a lesbian deck too which will definitely be another step forward. I let my querents have a look through my decks and select one but I was never happy with the Cosmic Tribe in the sense that you almost had to draw people's attention to the three Lovers cards whereas having your deck in a collection would allow gay men to select it for themselves. A standing ovation to you for this brilliant move!

Maan	07 Nov 2003
First of all congratulations Lee! I'm so happy for you. It must be wonderful to finally see your ideas become touchable. I think this is a very good thing ( as a female ) i don't have much to complain about decks specific designed for my gender;) But as often has come up in discussions on the forum here a gay deck does not exist ( in 2004 it will ;) ) I think you and lo scarabeao found a gap in the available tarots. And although its not ment for me i will certainly buy it. BTW in a different thread you made some remarkts about perfect body's and the european market. How does this deck show man? All perfectly shaped? or are there some larges and smaller man? With and without hair? Black and white etc? Love Maan

catlin	07 Nov 2003
MM, Lee, I really hope that Ms Platano will pay more respect to gays than she did to Wiccan. You have any idea if she will paint "gym-bunny" looking males (hope you don't mind that expression) or males or all kind? I am just asking this because I count to add that tarot also to my collection ;-)) I can only second your words that the ppl from LoScarabeo are really nice and helpful. Mario was really distressed when I pointed out the major flaws of the Witchy tarot so I hope you'll have the chance to see the cards of the gay deck before they will go into print.

Lee	07 Nov 2003
Thanks LouisQ and Maan and catlin! I did take care to include men with more and less hair, and men of different sizes, shapes, and colors. -- Lee

Maan	07 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Lee Thanks LouisQ and Maan and catlin! I did take care to include men with more and less hair, and men of different sizes, shapes, and colors. -- Lee O that's great thats makes the deck even more special!....and will there be an on going talk about naked men being circumsized? I seemed to remind a discussion about the male figure in the robin wood lovers card. Also a cultural difference as i remember ;) Love Maan

Lee	07 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Maan ....and will there be an on going talk about naked men being circumsized? I seemed to remind a discussion about the male figure in the robin wood lovers card. Also a cultural difference as i remember ;) I don't think the issue will arise with this deck. We decided to leave such things to the imagination. :) -- Lee

Astraea	07 Nov 2003
Lee, I missed the thread in which Riccardo made the announcement about your deck, and would like to congratulate you belatedly! This is wonderful news and a great honor. I will be looking forward to the publication of your deck.

fairyhedgehog	07 Nov 2003
This sounds like a wonderful deck and I'm really looking forward to seeing pictures from it. Congratulations, Lee :)

Woof	07 Nov 2003
Belated CONGRATULATIONS!!! from me to! Wonderful for the world of tarot as well as for you too. I think that it is long overdue and am glad you are involved and that Lo Scarabeo has been good to you! Woof

truthsayer	07 Nov 2003
most of all, lee, i want to congratulate you on this deck. i know gender balance or even a more masculine deck has been an issue with you for a while. (remember all those feminine oriented decks we traded back and forth?;) ) i want to add it to my collection, too. will you autograph our decks if we say send you one of the cards that are in the front of the deck that aren't usable? :D i enjoy collecting signed decks and books. may your deck prosper as do you! (((leel)))

DreamDancer	07 Nov 2003
Congradulations Lee! I had noticed that your bio on your recent reviews over at Tarot Passages said you had a forthcoming deck for LS & now I know what it is. I think it sounds great! There is definetly a need for more decks aimed at men. I know several people who will be very happy to learn of this deck.

baba-prague	07 Nov 2003
Lee, This sounds great. I'm so glad that you're doing this deck as I absolutely know it will be really good - well thought through, usable and thought-provoking. I am really looking forward to it, as I'm sure many people are. Congratulations!

lark	07 Nov 2003
I would like to add my congratulations . What a wonderful thing! I have a dear friend who will be very happy to hear about your new deck. Maybe I won't tell him and buy it as a surprise. Thank-you for pursuing your vision. Namaste

PurpleSal	07 Nov 2003
Congratulations from here - I also have someone who this would make the perfect gift for! Good for you - sounds like a brilliant deck. Would love to see some scans etc.... Well done Sal xx

Lee	07 Nov 2003
Thanks everyone so much! There's still a good while to go before the deck is actually published, but I'm sure we can work out something regarding signed decks. Either you could mail me the cards, or maybe I can work out something with Tarot Garden to sign cards for them. When the time gets closer, I'll contact the folks at TG and ask them. Maybe we could arrange it so those purchases would benefit Aeclectic. -- Lee

Astraea	07 Nov 2003
Lee, it would be wonderful if something like that could be worked out. I would love to have a signed copy of your deck, whenever it becomes available. Again, congratulations and best wishes!

Logiatrix	07 Nov 2003
Many congrats, Lee...how absolutely giddy with that flippy, butterflies-in-the-tummy feeling you must have! All that work will surely pay off; you have lots of love and support coming from here! ((((((Lee)))))) I have the perfect person to buy this deck for--ME! :D Neither gay nor male, just a lowly tarotphile girl with a strong penchant for multicultural, people empowering decks. AND, to be able to say, "Oh, that's Lee's deck. Yep, we go back a ways, you know..." How cool is that?!! But how cruel and delicious to have to wait so long... *sigh* :)

SongDeva	07 Nov 2003
Glad to see it. Great idea, Lee.

Mimers	07 Nov 2003
I am very excited about this! Do get some autographed copies available, because I would want one or two. I am very encouraged about this Lee. One of my very best friends is gay, and it has been very rough for him. He won't believe me when I tell him about this! Very happy for you Lee! Mimi

HudsonGray	07 Nov 2003
Don't forget to mention it to Tarot Passages also. Congrats on the deck! It definately does fill in a gap in the tarot spectrum. I think it'll do well once the word gets out.

Dark_angel	07 Nov 2003
Oh wow! Lee, congratulations! I can't wait till your deck is published... just hoping I've got enough money left from my poor student loan to cover it. I thought the quality of artwork for the Witchy Tarot was very good (even though I wasn't too sure about the designs), so it's brilliant that you've got the same artist working on yours. How long have you been working on this? xxx

WolfSpirit	07 Nov 2003
Lee this is great news, I am very happy for you and looking forward to seeing cards of this deck. Will there also be a book or booklet ? As you can explain things well and have a way with words, that might be great as well :) I hope we will soon have a chance to see something of this deck !!

Shade	07 Nov 2003
I am the happiest tarot monkey in the world! I've long wanted to see more of my folks in a tarot deck and had to be contented with the Cosmic Tribe and slightly uncomfortable about the Gay Male Tarot (over the top erotic deck). So, this may be a random question but in single gender decks I'm always interested in the way that the other gender will appear. In Daughters of the Moon there are no mne but I Motherpeace there are few, etc. So will the Empress and High Priestess be men or women in this one? I'd imagine the Queens will well be Queens =) and won't need women for those cards.

Cerulean	07 Nov 2003
This is a contemporary deck... Will the aspects of sports also be addressed? One of our longstanding friends would be tickled to see the title of the deck, but he wouldn't use it unless it had some reflection of his daily life...he's more a great sports and activity buddy for us, kayaking and hiking, and such... Just curious.

Lee	07 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Tauni how absolutely giddy with that flippy, butterflies-in-the-tummy feeling you must have! Exactly! :laugh: Quote: Originally posted by Mimers One of my very best friends is gay, and it has been very rough for him. He won't believe me when I tell him about this! I'd love for all different kinds of people to want this deck -- male, female, gay, straight, transgendered, whatever. But I must admit, Mimi's comment really touches me. If my deck can positively affect one such person as Mimi's friend, then it will have been a thousand times worth the effort that's gone into it. Quote: Originally posted by HudsonGray Don't forget to mention it to Tarot Passages also. Already taken care of... Diane (webmistress of TP) and I are friends... }) Quote: Originally posted by Dark_angel How long have you been working on this? It all happened fairly quickly. In February of this year (2003) Riccardo and I began discussing a gay tarot. I worked up some rough descriptions of the Majors, and he gave me the go-ahead to keep working, so I began in-depth work on the project. In August Lo Scarabeo and I signed a contract, and soon thereafter I was done with all the work (full card descriptions and the writing of the LWB). Then Antonella began work on the art, which is ongoing. Quote: Originally posted by WolfSpirit Will there also be a book or booklet ? As you can explain things well and have a way with words, that might be great as well :) I hope we will soon have a chance to see something of this deck !! It will be the standard Lo Scarabeo deck-only production, i.e. the deck and a Little White Booklet. Lo Scarabeo has no plans at present to publish an accompanying book. However, I'm hoping that the deck will be so wildly successful that they might want to do so in the future... We're working on getting a few card scans for you to see... stay tuned! Quote: Originally posted by JohnnyVoodoo So, this may be a random question but in single gender decks I'm always interested in the way that the other gender will appear. [...] So will the Empress and High Priestess be men or women in this one? I'd imagine the Queens will well be Queens =) and won't need women for those cards. Good question! I thought long and hard about how to handle this. There are a few females in the deck... particularly, a little girl makes an appearance on a few cards, because of course gay men can be parents... there is also the occasional mother and father... and one card shows a statue of three women (hint: 3 of Cups!). But I wanted all the major figures on the cards to be men. For those cards which are definitely women in traditional tarot, I cast men, who perform similar functions (not in drag!), and retitled the cards. So, for example, the High Priestess becomes a male Intuitive; the Empress becomes a male Caretaker. For the Queens, I wanted to avoid campiness. I mean, I don't dislike campiness, but I felt it didn't fit in with the mood of universality I wanted to convey. So I re-imagined the Court structure a bit. The Courts are Youth, Man, Guide and Sage. Youth, Man and Sage are self-explanatory. The Guides replace the Queens, and show winged male angels. They perform some of the functions of traditional Queens but also suggest the Higher Self and issues related to altruism and wider perspectives. It makes me so happy that so many people are interested in this deck and are looking forward to it. Blessings to you all! -- Lee

Lee	07 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Mari_Hoshizaki Will the aspects of sports also be addressed? One of our longstanding friends would be tickled to see the title of the deck, but he wouldn't use it unless it had some reflection of his daily life...he's more a great sports and activity buddy for us, kayaking and hiking, and such... Just curious. Yes, there are several sports activities represented on the cards. :) -- Lee

firemaiden	07 Nov 2003
Hey Lee, this is totally cool. What an exciting project!

Mimers	07 Nov 2003
Quote: So I re-imagined the Court structure a bit. The Courts are Youth, Man, Guide and Sage. Youth, Man and Sage are self-explanatory. The Guides replace the Queens, and show winged male angels. They perform some of the functions of traditional Queens but also suggest the Higher Self and issues related to altruism and wider perspectives. I like the idea of the Queens being representitive to the Higher self. This a great way to represent their receptiveness and their reflective qualities. I always think of myself as a mirror image of my higher self (or vise versa, I'm not quite sure LOL). Take care, Mimi

Melvis	07 Nov 2003
Congratulations, Lee! I am so happy for you! :D Peace, Melvis :TSTRE

Shade	08 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Lee For the Queens, I wanted to avoid campiness. I mean, I don't dislike campiness, but I felt it didn't fit in with the mood of universality I wanted to convey. So I re-imagined the Court structure a bit. The Courts are Youth, Man, Guide and Sage. Youth, Man and Sage are self-explanatory. The Guides replace the Queens, and show winged male angels. They perform some of the functions of traditional Queens but also suggest the Higher Self and issues related to altruism and wider perspectives. -- Lee I really like this decision. I'm a big fan of campiness but I love it when tarot creators think outside of the box. Also, in order to keep the deck timeless the re-ordering makes sense as the definition of a "queen" in the Scene is always changing. If you'd gone with the "queens" as queens it would have been cute but would be labeled a caricature of a true tarot deck by all the big tarot folks.

Cocobird55	08 Nov 2003
Congratulations! That's very exciting news. I'm looking forward to seeing scans of the deck. Sue

Kaz	08 Nov 2003
lee, a belated congrats to you, i dont visit this forum that often. i think your deck will fill a huge gap in tarotland ! looking forward to see some scans :-)

Xarokys	08 Nov 2003
Lee, Congratulations!!! This deck should fill a void in the tarot world. I like how you used the higher self or Guides for the Queens. I'm looking forward to adding it to my collection, but what a long wait! Becky

Sulis	08 Nov 2003
Lee congratulations, you must be so chuffed. I'll look forward to seeing some scans of your deck, it sounds really well thought out. Well done you! Love and light Sulis xx

TallTarotGuy	08 Nov 2003
Lee, I just wanted to add my congratulations to the long list. As a gay man, I think it's great that you're celebrating our "uniqueness" by representing us through the tarot. I can't wait to see the scanned images. :) HUGS, TTG

Myrrha	08 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Lee For those cards which are definitely women in traditional tarot, I cast men, who perform similar functions (not in drag!), and retitled the cards. So, for example, the High Priestess becomes a male Intuitive; the Empress becomes a male Caretaker. For the Queens, I wanted to avoid campiness. I mean, I don't dislike campiness, but I felt it didn't fit in with the mood of universality I wanted to convey. So I re-imagined the Court structure a bit. The Courts are Youth, Man, Guide and Sage. Youth, Man and Sage are self-explanatory. The Guides replace the Queens, and show winged male angels. They perform some of the functions of traditional Queens but also suggest the Higher Self and issues related to altruism and wider perspectives. Wow! I am very impressed with this. It sounds like a thoughtful, creative way to reinterpret the cards for gay men. I can't wait to see the picture of the male intuitive. Congratulations! --Myrrha

sunflowr	10 Nov 2003
congratulations, Lee!! :) I'm looking forward to hearing more about this deck and seeing some images.

Kyrielle	10 Nov 2003
Congratulations, Lee! I wonder what Brian Williams would have thought of this idea.... -- Kyrielle

Lee	10 Nov 2003
Good news! Scans of six cards plus the deck box will be posted on the next update of the Tarot Passages website. I'll post here again when that update's posted (it will be before Thanksgiving). -- Lee

Alta	10 Nov 2003
Lee!! Belated congratulations. What an exciting venture and I am happy that it has been a positive experience for you. I will definitely get this deck, if only because it is the creation of a fellow AT'ian!

Justin	11 Nov 2003
Lee, I've been waiting for a deck like this for a long time. As a gay male, i've had my eyes open for a deck that showed the full spectrum of masculinity--the sensitive and the strong. I can't wait to see the scans and I'm already 99% positive that i'm going to get this deck! Thank you again and like the rest have already said, congratulations! Justin

purplelady	12 Nov 2003
Lee, how wonderful, Congratulations! I look foward to seeing the deck.

Requiella	12 Nov 2003
This sounds like a wonderful deck to me. I'd like to own a copy, even though I'm not male or gay. Quite frankly, I think that the charges against certain groups for having decks that only feature predominantly members of that group are misguided. For groups that are or have been socially disadvantaged, having such a deck can be empowering. And, I'd add here that it can be empowering without taking taking power away from other groups. As a heterosexual female, I do not feel in the least threatened by a gay male tarot. I think it's cool. It suprises me that there are people feel so threatened by group-specific decks. It's one thing to make a deck that puts down members of another group; that's just clearly in bad taste (for example, a male-centered deck that features objectification of women). But, if there's a deck that simply features members of one social group in order to "speak to" that group, then that's fine, in my way of seeing it (a male-centered deck that features pictures of men only would be okay). Good luck with your project!

DianeWilkes	13 Nov 2003
Congratulations on your new deck, Lee. It must be very exciting to know that something you created in your imagination is going to manifest in the physical world! I think this deck will be useful in many situations. When it is published, I plan to carry it with me to all professional tarot gigs, as I can see it being both "readable" and being a deck that gay clients will really resonate with.

Mystic Zyl	13 Nov 2003
Congratualtions there is a need for your deck. I will look forward in seeing your deck for sale

Jenny-Li	14 Nov 2003
Wow Lee! This is really great news, I'm happy for you! (And I can't wait for the scans! ;) Good thing I was recently invited for my life's first Thanksgiving dinner - otherwise I wouldn't have known when it is! *lol*) Applauds and big congratulations! Jenny :)

Maan	14 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Jenny-Li (And I can't wait for the scans! ;) Good thing I was recently invited for my life's first Thanksgiving dinner - otherwise I wouldn't have known when it is! *lol*) So please Jenny enlighten me...when is thanksgiving? I really wouldn't know :(

Jenny-Li	14 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Maan So please Jenny enlighten me...when is thanksgiving? I really wouldn't know :( Ah, of course, we poor uneducated Europeans must stick together! *lol* 27th of November - at least that's when I was invited to my American friend for turkey dinner! :)

Lee	14 Nov 2003
Oops, sorry! :) Yes, Jenny-Li is quite correct, it's November 27. The scans should be posted before then. -- Lee

Maan	14 Nov 2003
thats oke..i learned something new today ;) I can't wait to see the pictures! I will be checking tarotpassages everyday! Love Maan

Lee	14 Nov 2003
Okay, the latest update of Tarot Passages isn't up yet, but Diane has given us a sneak preview of the page which shows the scans, which will be included in the update: http://www.tarotpassages.com/gaytarotpix.htm Thank you, Diane! By the way, I encourage everyone to check out Diane's site: http://www.tarotpassages.com/ And click on the link to subscribe to her newsletter, if you haven't already. It keeps you informed of the latest updates. Diane's site is a true treasure of a resource for the tarot community, and she does a wonderful job keeping it packed with fascinating material, including her own excellently-written tarot reviews. And on top of all that, she's the author of the forthcoming Jane Austen Tarot! -- Lee

TallTarotGuy	14 Nov 2003
Lee, WOW! Love the deck so far...can't wait to see the finished product. Please keep giving us more scans as they come available. And keep up the good work! HUGS TTG

Maan	14 Nov 2003
Woohoooo its so great to get a first glimps of this deck! Thank you so much Lee! And looking at it makes me praise your insights more. The protector is a stroke of genius and i really love the lay out of the lovers card. Almost wishing i was a gay male ;) So great to see a concept becoming reality...i can only imgagine how you must feel! Enjoy the feeling and be proud of it...you certainly deserve it Love Maan ( alsways special to see tarothistory develope right before my very eyes)

Alta	14 Nov 2003
This is so great Lee. I love the images up so far, this is going to be a beautiful and balanced deck.

Hedera	14 Nov 2003
Congratulations Lee, how absolutely wonderful! :) Those first scans look very interesting. I like the 'flashyness' of the Magician. The Protector looks great, too. I can't wait to hear more, and to see the whole deck!

Mimers	14 Nov 2003
Oh Lee! I love the Protector (Empress). What a great picture inspiriering growth and nurturing. The Lovers card is great as well. I am really looking forward to this. Question, I can't quite make out the details of the card with the skateboarder on it. What card is that and what is he dropping or throwing? Thanks for sharing Lee, and please thank Diana for the sneak peak as well! Mimi

Cerulean	14 Nov 2003
I like the colors, clean and pristine, but not prissy or too girly/guyish. I'd almost say a sophisticated palette, but that would make one think it might be a little too muted or fussy. The line and images are fresh and clear to me. I like the sparkly aspects as well. I think if you also like soft colors and friendly graphics, this might also be a gentle deck alternative...although not as soft as Spirit of Flowers. Thanks for the sneak peek! Mari H.

Shade	14 Nov 2003
Whew... When I heard it was the artost from the Witchy Tarot, forgive me but I was worried. But now I can rest easy. The art reminds me of Joe Phillips's stuff. Very nice.

Alex	15 Nov 2003
The cards I saw online look very nice. Good taste. Congratulations. Alex.

Lee	15 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Mimers Question, I can't quite make out the details of the card with the skateboarder on it. What card is that and what is he dropping or throwing? Hi Mimi, that card is the 7 of Swords. The figure on the cards is the same person as depicted on the Chariot (you can see the roman numeral VII on his outfit)(all the pip cards relate in some way to the correspondingly-numbered Majors, hence the top hat on the Aces, referring to the Magician). In this card he is a messenger on a city street, delivering envelopes (although it looks like he's losing two of them). If you compare the card with the R-W-S 7 of Swords, you'll see that the figure is in roughly the same position. The placements of the figures on the pip cards echo those of the R-W-S cards, but because of the correlation with the Majors, their meanings are sometimes different. The divinatory meaning for this card is "Carrying your plans through obstacles. Speed is important. Someone brings news or a message." -- Lee

Astraea	15 Nov 2003
Lee, the scans of your cards are breathtaking! I simply love the ideas and imagery. I will be on Jeannette's preorder list for your deck as soon as that becomes possible. Again, my congratulations and warmest regards.

Lee	15 Nov 2003
By the way, I know it's hard to see on the scan, but if you look closely at the upper right-hand corner of the Magician card, you can just barely make out the four suit symbols on the curtain. -- Lee :)

full deck	16 Nov 2003
The concept seems much better than the last "gay" tarot I saw in Tarotgarden (that one had scales balanced on some beefy guy's penis, for example). This version is much more positive and human in concept. I've noticed too much in the way of negative self-imagery in the gay community and this seems an improvement.

Cerulean	16 Nov 2003
...I wonder if this will ever become Lee's favorite deck...for at least a week or so... Mari whose checking Amazon.com for the the Collected Lee Bursten Review reader...

jmd	16 Nov 2003
Great to see some of the scans, Lee... and also my congratulations :) A deck such as this has been a while in the coming - and completed wonderfully quickly. Must be very satisfying :) Of the few scans, there is a sense for some of the essence of each of the cards... Maybe I missed it in an earlier post - but how are Justice and Strength numbered? ...and the Fool?

Lee	16 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Mari_Hoshizaki ...I wonder if this will ever become Lee's favorite deck...for at least a week or so... LOL! I think we can safely say that when this deck is published, it will be my favorite for at least a little while longer than my previous favorite decks. :P Quote: Originally posted by jmd [...] how are Justice and Strength numbered? ...and the Fool? Hi jmd, Justice is VIII, Strength is XI, the Fool is 0. -- Lee

Cerulean	16 Nov 2003
My favorite Marseilles ordering! Another reason to eagerly anticipate this deck...

jmd	16 Nov 2003
breathes a sigh of relief... and then half hiccups with that 'zero'... ohh well, can't have everything our way Looking forward to its release :):):)

Little Baron	23 Dec 2003
Lee What can I say that hasn't already been said? Congratulations on what looks to be enlightening, worth the wait and a total success. Will definitely add it to my collection when I have some spare pennies. Look forward to hearing more updates. I am sure that 2004 will be an excellent year for you and for all of as that have awaited a deck like you have created. Best wishes Yaboot *the lovers card is great*

Redlance	30 Dec 2003
I just joined this forum today in search of a deck my friend saw that had two males as the lovers cards. I thought that would be as close to a gay tarot as I would see without devolving into a pornographic group of cards that had little to do with an actual deck, save the name on the box in which they came. I now eagerly await the release of your deck. However, if anyone knows any other decks in this vein, an email to me would make my research a lot more pleasant. -Jesse

Moongold	30 Dec 2003
Well, I am joining a long queue to say congratulations, Lee. I have just had a look at the scns on Tarot Passages and they look great. There will most certainly be market for it here. In terms of marketing it in Australia, the gay press like the Melbourne Star Observer, for example would be good places to think of. If you don't have contacts here yourself, I am sure some of us could help. Pardon me, but did your partner write And the Band Played On ? I've always wanted to ask that so am taking the plunge. I could not put that book down. Later amended to add that I've realised the author was Randy Shilts. My best wishes ~ Moongold

Lee	30 Dec 2003
Thanks everyone for your great comments! It seems like forever before the deck will be available. Oh well, I suppose absence makes the heart grow fonder. :) -- Lee

Jen	30 Dec 2003
Wow, I just saw the scans. I LOVE the artwork. I had no idea there would be sparkles! :) I love decks that have luminescence! I'm going to re-paste the link to the scans in case others missed it: http://www.tarotpassages.com/gaytarotpix.htm

Kiama	30 Dec 2003
From what I've read about the deck, I think it is an excellent and much-needed idea. Now I've seen the scans, I'm even more enamoured with it! Lee, congratulations on this deck: I can see it being very popular when it is released, and personally I can't wait til then! :D Kiama

Lee	23 Jan 2004
Good news! The release date for the Gay Tarot won't be in November, as I originally thought, but earlier -- July! :) That means it will be available in Europe in July, and in the U.S. around August. Hats off to Umbrae, who let me know of the new date. -- Lee

Mimers	23 Jan 2004
That is so cool Lee! I cant wait to see the finished product. Are you writing any kind of book for the deck? Mimi

Alta	23 Jan 2004
Oh excellent Lee! July.... in publishing terms that is practically tomorrow. I am looking forward to this deck, it sounds great. Marion

Lee	23 Jan 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Mimers That is so cool Lee! I cant wait to see the finished product. Are you writing any kind of book for the deck? Hi Mimi, no, as far as I know it's only planned as a deck and LWB. -- Lee

Dark_angel	23 Jan 2004
I've just seen the scans and the cards are BEAUTIFUL! Despite my serious lack of funds, your deck has just gone straight into my Five Most Wanted!

Demonesse	23 Jan 2004
I see III as being more of 'The Nurturer' rather than 'The Protector'.

Nycelle	23 Jan 2004
Congratulations Lee! That is wonderful news. I wish you and your deck every success, financial and spiritual :D

Elentir	21 May 2004
I just found the Gay Tarot listed on Lo Scarabeo's catalogue Web site. Unfortunately, this seems to be a viewing-only catalog, there is no ordering information or shopping cart or anything like that. Have there been any updates on the deck's availability? I've been buying a few new decks lately and they've all been disappointments, but I have been looking forward to getting this deck ever since I saw the TarotPassages scans last year sometime. http://www.loscarabeo.com/catalogo2004/Catalogo_UK/Tarocchi/89_gay.htm I would be excited even to put in a preorder for this deck, if Llewellyn or some other site was offering it. Cheers, phil c.

le pendu	21 May 2004
Hi philc5, See this recent thread: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26616 You can preorder it at Tarot Garden! robert

Tarot Sparrow	21 May 2004
I just wanted to say, Lee--stunning work!

Cocobird55	22 May 2004
Check Tarot Garden -- I think you can pre-order it there. Sue

Jewel	24 May 2004
Lee, I am so excited to see that this deck is almost ready! The cards I have seen are very beautiful indeed. I am just thrilled for you!!!!

JosephMartin	25 May 2004
What a wonderful idea and deck. I can't wait to get my own copy. Just went to the link and look at a few of the cards. Keep us posted so we know when we can order one for ourselves. Thanks for making a tool for the gay population. yours in the cards, Joseph

Lee	25 May 2004
Thanks for the kind words, everyone! You can pre-order the Gay Tarot by sending an e-mail to sales@tarotgarden.com. The pre-order price is $16 (regular retail price will be $20). The deck should be released in July in Europe and in August or September in the U.S. -- Lee

closrapexa	26 May 2004
Congratulations!! About time there was a deck like this. Is there any site I can see the whole deck?

Lee	26 May 2004
Thanks, closrapexa! No, the only scans that are online are the Lo Scarabeo link which philc5 mentions above, and also here: http://www.tarotpassages.com/gaytarotpix.htm -- Lee

Flavio	27 May 2004
Congratulations Lee! I pray for this deck to become a classic. Keep the good work and thanks for bringing to the Tarot community positive images of the gay people.

starsongs	27 May 2004
Congratulations, Lee. I enjoyed previewing the images; nice work! starsongs

Lee	09 Jun 2004
The Gay Tarot is now available for pre-order from Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0738705977/ref=nosim/aeclectic/ (This is an Aeclectic link, so orders made from that link will help support Aeclectic.) And, as mentioned earlier, you can also pre-order from Tarot Garden: http://www.tarotgarden.com/boutique/preorders.html (Mention Aeclectic in the pre-order request.) -- Lee

Shade	15 Jun 2004
I am very eager to see this deck. I think that with any deck whose theme is very dear to an individual they are either going to love it and want to proclaim it from the mountain tops or will loathe it and want the creator strung up! The Witchy Tarot might be a good example of how this could play out for people (a deck I liked so I'm thrilled Antinella Platano is the artist on this project). From the scans I've seen, including the new cards shown in Kiama's interview I'm sure it will be just about everything I had hoped for. I have my concerns but I like what Lee has said so far regarding the deck.

The 78th Fool	01 Jul 2004
Hi Lee, I'm really looking forward to seeing your deck when it arrives. It was great to finally see it pop up on Tarotgarden's forthcoming releases page at last! I've just completed a deck too, but I must admit that I was too much of a coward to tackle the gay theme although its close to my heart. It's interesting that two important decks will arrive more or less at the same time therefore - yours and the Brotherhood Tarot. Thankfully the artwork on the other deck is in strong contrast to yours which means I won't feel the slightest bit guilty buying both!!! I'm eager to see more of the artwork as whats appeared already in pre release publicity looks lovely and fascinating. Well done again and thanks for plugging a very important gap in the market.

Lee	01 Jul 2004
Thanks, 78th! The art on my deck is by Antonella Platano, and I thoroughly agree that her work is lovely and fascinating. Let me also say that I think you've done a great job with your own deck (the Butler Tarot) as well as your beautifully designed website, and I hope we'll see your deck printed soon. -- Lee

The 78th Fool	02 Jul 2004
I'm really glad you like my deck too - It's a pity Lo Scarabeo doesn't think like You!! What really interested me with your deck was the way some of our symbolism overlapped . The Magician is a great example. Although I've stuck with the older Marseilles based title of the Juggler, we've both gone for the image of the modern television or stage magician. There was no sense of 'as above so below in my card' - I simply wanted to portray someone who can open up a frightening array of wonders and possibilities but whose trustworthiness is unpredictable or questionable. That seemed to me what the older traditional cards were about - Let me know what your magician about - I'm curious! Chris

Lee	02 Jul 2004
Hi, Chris -- There are a few things that went into my choice of image for the Magician. First, I wanted to emphasize the meanings of the card which deal with one's potential abilities to create things, and to create oneself, however one likes. The stage magician creates realities (i.e., does tricks) which apparently violate the rules of physics. Likewise, we have the ability, if we choose to use it, to create things or to create ourselves in ways which violate the boundaries and limits which others (or ourselves) are only too eager to impose on us. I also like the stage magician's flamboyance. Most decks, going back to the earliest ones, have a Magician card which exhibits this flamboyance, although perhaps not quite to this degree. I like the courage with which the Magician projects his personality out into the world, and I think this can be a good model for how to live one's life. There is of course the element you mention, Chris, the fact that we have to be aware that on a certain level, the magician is performing a trick, and thus this card in a reading could represent another person who is untrustworthy. The stage environment is an interesting element, because it suggests that where we come from, what emotional baggage we carry with us (i.e., what the Fool carries in his backpack) doesn't matter in the slightest bit. For the duration of the performance, the actor or magician convinces us of his realities by sheer force of will. Likewise, in everyday life, if we're doubtful of our own abilities or competence, if we simply pretend to ourselves and others that we're confident in ourselves, then more often than not, others will believe us. Other cards in the deck also use a stage environment as a background. And it's interesting that Pamela Colman Smith was a stage designer, and many cards in the RWS deck are drawn as if taking place on a stage, with a scenery flat behind the main figures. I particularly like the way Antonella has drawn him as not doing anything, but simply standing there, projecting his charisma out into the audience. The obvious choice would have been to show him performing a trick, but the way she drew it is better, because it emphasizes that it's not just a trick that he's creating but rather his own life. And in our own lives, we have the same capacity to shape our lives into something as iridiscent and interesting as that of the most accomplished magician. -- Lee

Shade	02 Jul 2004
The Magician is one of the cards I'm most critical of in decks, if I don't like the magician I'm usually not gonna warm up to the deck. I particularly like the Magician as he is shown here. The first time I saw the card I completely missed the semi-hidden element symbols. I like that his design (as I see it) exists "between" several different versions as I believe gay folks live between several worlds... sort of the third road to Faery and whatnot. I liked a few other things about the card but it was the flamboyance Lee mentioned that reassured me a bit about the deck. When folks talk charisma they usually think Used Car Salesman but the Magician here has that pure force of personality and freedom that comes from true self knowledgethat is born in a lot of people once they come out. ok rambling amorphously I'll stp now.

The 78th Fool	02 Jul 2004
Thanks Lee - that's answered my questions. Shade - keep rambling! you talk sense!!!

Red Emma	02 Jul 2004
If the deck is as erudite as your post, it will be a very good deck, indeed. As a feminst who was a street fighter for women's rights in the sixties and seventies, I understand your need. Kind of. I really suspect that your struggle is much harder than ours ever was. Blessings.

Lee	03 Jul 2004
Shade brings up an excellent point, which I completely neglected to mention in my post, which is that the flamboyance and force of will evident in the Magician is appropriate in a gay-themed deck, because these qualities often are evident to one degree or another in anyone who has gone through the coming-out process, which is always traumatic on some level. I agree with Chris; Shade, please keep rambling! :) Red Emma, thanks for the kind words. I think it's really impossible to compare struggles... life in general is difficult, and no one ever really completely understands anyone else's struggles. I think all any of us can do is be kind to each other, mindful of the hidden struggles each of us may be facing. -- Lee

Shade	22 Jul 2004
Was bored at work (Borders) and started looking up the dates we would have certain decks in. The Gay Tarot has a listing for November. November !?! Seems I will be waiting longer. Also, the deck was listed as a box set... is that a mistake as it had been previously told that the deck would have a LWB only? A few other upscoming LS decks were also listed as box sets so I'm thinking it's just an error. On a side note... what decks (if any) do others use as a Queer deck or for queer readings? I've been making much use of Williams's Renaissance Tarot in this respect.

Lee	22 Jul 2004
Hi Shade, I noticed that Amazon has it listed as a box set too, but that's wrong, it's just the deck with LWB. As far as the date, it's still my understanding that it's scheduled for release in the U.S. in September. Llewellyn, the deck's U.S. distributor, lists it with an availability date of December, but I still think it will be available in September. I've heard from Riccardo that the decks have been printed, yippee! :D -- Lee

le pendu	22 Jul 2004
Pardon me Lee, I don't want to hijack your thread! Shade, I highly recommend The Cosmic Tribe Tarot. It is famous for having three versions of the Lovers card ... Straight, Gay, and Lesbian. The imagery is very gay-friendly, if not downright gay-oriented. A great deck. Lee, I've got your deck preordered with Tarot Garden, can't wait to use it. robert

Kittaine	22 Jul 2004
I sooo love this deck! Lots of hot, well-built men! Mwahaha! Love it, love it! :D If I hadn't exhausted my resources for this month, I'd order this! Has it ever been discussed how this deck would do with non-gay tarot readers? Cos I understand that it's about gay experiences; so how would it do with those of us who haven't had those experiences?

Lee	22 Jul 2004
Hi Kittaine, I think there's some discussion of this earlier in this thread. Also, you may find some related discussion in an interview conducted by Kiama, which you can find here: http://www.cardiffpagan.co.uk/ Click on "Magazine" on the left, and then scroll down and click on "Lee Bursten." There's also another interview which will be posted soon (at a different site) which will address your question more specifically. -- Lee

Centaur	23 Jul 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Kittaine Has it ever been discussed how this deck would do with non-gay tarot readers? Cos I understand that it's about gay experiences; so how would it do with those of us who haven't had those experiences? I think that this deck could be used by straight and gay people alike. If you think about it, then gay people use decks laced with heterosexual imagery all the time. I assume that it would be the same for a straight person using a deck laced with gay imagery. :D

Lee	03 Aug 2004
Yesterday in the mail I received a copy of the deck. Much bliss. :) It really is an experience to hold it in my hands, eighteen months after I first began work on it. The thing that strikes me immediately is the extent to which details in the art are missed in scans. Even when you can see details in scans, they just don't jump out at you like they do when you're looking at the card in person. Seeing the cards in person makes me appreciate Antonella's artwork that much more. Having an actual deck means one can rearrange cards into patterns. I did this, and in fact I'd suggest it to anyone who gets the deck: Lay out Major cards 1 through 10 (Magician through Wheel) in a row. Then underneath that lay out the Ace through 10 of each suit, so you have ten columns with the Major card at the top and the correspondingly numbered Minors underneath. This lets you see the connections between the Magician and all the Aces, etc. Most of the connections are obvious but some are a little obscure, but laying them out this way allows you to more easily figure out the connections I intended -- or to make up your own connections. I really like the dark blue borders. I don't know the official name of this color but it's very appealing. I also like the number at the top being in yellow, and a very thin yellow line surrounding the picture itself. The card titles in six languages are small and unobtrusive. It's also a thrill to see my LWB text translated into five languages! Although of course I'm pleased and proud of the results, I also feel a little detached from the deck, since it's been so long since I last worked on it. In some ways it feels like someone else created it. In a way this is good, because I can treat it as a new deck, and discover all kinds of neat things that Antonella put in the cards, and rediscover things that I put in the cards. For the last five or six years I've been searching madly for a favorite deck. Now I've found it! Perhaps the best favorite deck one can have will always be one's own. -- Lee

Centaur	03 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Lee It really is an experience to hold it in my hands, eighteen months after I first began work on it. The thing that strikes me immediately is the extent to which details in the art are missed in scans. Even when you can see details in scans, they just don't jump out at you like they do when you're looking at the card in person. Seeing the cards in person makes me appreciate Antonella's artwork that much more. It must be amazing to finally have the final product in your hands! :D I am impressed by the artwork as presented in the scans, so hopefully, that will mean that I will be even more impressed with the artwork when I get my hands on a copy of the deck. It will be interesting to see what you come up with next in your next tarot-project. :)

WolfSpirit	03 Aug 2004
Wow Lee, that must be a special feeling, to be finally able to hold YOUR OWN deck in your hands. I am so happy for you that it is also your favourite deck. Hope it brings you much joy :)

Maan	03 Aug 2004
I got it too, today so i don;t have had much time to look through it yet but i must say i'm impressed. Congratualitons Lee on making such a new and inovative deck. I really love the different perspective you gave some of the cards! I'm going to look through it some more in the comming days..so i might have something more constructive to add to this thread! Love Maan

Lee	03 Aug 2004
Hi Maan, I understand you have assisted with some of the Dutch card titles for the deck? If so, thank you! :) -- Lee

Maan	03 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Lee Hi Maan, I understand you have assisted with some of the Dutch card titles for the deck? If so, thank you! :) -- Lee yeah i helped a little. It was great to do...i really like playing around with the words to try and find what best fits the meaning behind the words in combination with the cards. It was a honor! :*

DianeWilkes	03 Aug 2004
Congratulations, Lee! Even though I don't have my copy of the Gay Tarot yet, I know it's going to be a pivotal and classic deck--as well as a good reading deck. It's in the cards!

Astraea	03 Aug 2004
Lee, I'm so pleased for you and am really looking forward to receiving your beautiful deck from Tarot Garden. It must be such a delight to behold in finished form the results of your creativity. I wish you every success with this deck, and in all of your endeavors.

Centaur	04 Aug 2004
Does anyone else have it yet? I would be interested in hearing any thoughts on the deck!!

Lee	05 Aug 2004
Tarot Garden and I have arranged to provide signed copies of the deck if you preorder from Tarot Garden. So if anyone is interested in owning a signed deck, please let Tarot Garden know when you preorder that you want it signed, or, if you've already preordered, send Tarot Garden an e-mail letting them know you want your preorder to be a signed copy. When they get the decks in, they'll open up those decks and mail me the cover card, which I'll sign and send back to them. So there would be a delay in receiving your deck, to give the cover cards time to go back and forth in the mail. -- Lee

BlueLotus	06 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Centaur Does anyone else have it yet? I would be interested in hearing any thoughts on the deck!! Same here ;) .

Scorpion	06 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Lee So if anyone is interested in owning a signed deck, please let Tarot Garden know when you preorder that you want it signed, or, if you've already preordered, send Tarot Garden an e-mail letting them know you want your preorder to be a signed copy. ME, ME!!! Off to email Jeannette right away!

Jeannette	06 Aug 2004
Since we have so many wonderful Tarot Garden customers who are also Aeclectic members (we luv u! :*), I thought it best to confirm that we are receiving all those emails about the signed cards. I just haven't had time to acknowledge them yet (you can blame that on Ciro -- we've been so busy shipping out copies of his Gilded Tarot that there's been little time for anyting else). If you sent us an email requesting a signed copy, please be patient. I'll get them all acknowledged by the end of the weekend (I hope). And a broadcast email with the details will be going out to all of the folks who preordered Lee's eagerly-awaited deck through our little "shop." -- Jeannette The Tarot Garden

Lee	12 Aug 2004
Gay Tarot has been added to Aeclectic. :) http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/gay/ -- Lee

Shade	12 Aug 2004
Every time I see more scans of the deck I am more and more relieved. I love the hanged man, was it at all inspired by Greg Louganis? Also loved the Hierophant... it took me a few moments to notice the different way the couple is dressed.

Lee	12 Aug 2004
Actually I wasn't thinking of Greg Louganis, but I wish I had been -- that's certainly a good connection! -- Lee

telcontar	13 Aug 2004
Hi there, especially Lee! Today I got my copy of the Gay Tarot. Since I read about it here and saw the pictures at Lo Scarabeo I knew I'd have to have it. And now I hold it in hands :) What attracted me most was your version of the lovers- a reaction probably expected by the people of LS. But it worked and I can accept being manipulated when it is for my best :) I like every single picture but I have to get to know it better before I figure out at least half of what you're hinting at. The card I looked at for the longest time so far was the two of wands and I love this one. At the moment I'm still to much in awe to shuffle. But I will do so soon and I'm shure it will be one of my favourite decks. No bootlicking intended- just wanted to let you know I like it. But you probably get tons of positive feedback - At least, I hope so! :) Best wishes, telcontar

Lee	13 Aug 2004
Thanks very much, telcontar, and welcome to Aeclectic! Lo Scarabeo actually didn't determine the direction of any of the images. So for better or worse, you can blame me and Antonella for whatever you see in the deck. :) The thinking behind the Lovers card was, first, to continue in the tradition of many modern Tarot decks in showing a nude couple. I also wanted to emphasize the theme of opposites joining. I was also inspired by the Tarot of Light and Shadow by Michael Goepford whose Lovers card shows a black man and a white woman. And it seemed to me that the Gay Tarot Lovers card might capture the essence of same-sex attraction -- an attraction to someone who is the same as oneself, yet different. Glad you're enjoying the deck! -- Lee

Flavio	13 Aug 2004
I hope this question has not been asked before, has anyone ordered the Gay Tarot from Amazon and already received it? I checked the website and it says this item will ship within 1 or 2 months, I always buy in Amazon, but if any other shop is able to ship to Mexico I would buy there. Thank you.

Cerulean	13 Aug 2004
this past Tuesday though. Best wishes, Cerulean Mari

Shade	14 Aug 2004
Though I love the racial polarity mentioned what I think makes this version of the Lovers stand out is the union of the sun and the moon. I've seen many cards where a sun and a moon are bith pictured in the image but this is the first time i can think of where the 2 are joined in one sphere. This simple image speaks volumes about the queer sensibility of gender... the kinsey scale and the fluidity of gender and sexuality... living in a world beyond either/or polarity. very nice.

telcontar	14 Aug 2004
Hi Lee. I did not assume anyone from Lo Scarabeo designing your cards in any way- I was just talking about their joice of cards to put on display on their site. "The lovers" was certainly a great card to show. Have I made my point clearer now? In fact it was not such a good comment- not worth so many words. But I wanted that you got it right. Could have spoiled my whole compliment :) Sometimes I'm reminded that English is not my native language. Far too often, I think :) CU, telcontar

telcontar	15 Aug 2004
By now, I have shuffled and am doing my daily draws with this deck. And by now I have even found one tiny little thing to dislike: on the six of staves is the only horse in the deck. The bridle is a little strange, all right- but the saddle is threatening! Imagining to ride in such a thing for only half an hour makes very important parts of my body burn with pain. It's pity, for there are so many great details in the deck. But you can't have everything, can you? If you ever do another Gay deck, I'd wish for more horses and correct saddles ;) In fact, there ARE gay cowboys. I know, what I'm talking about *lol* telcontar

Lee	15 Aug 2004
I will definitely keep that in mind. :) I've never ridden a horse in my life and thus am clueless about saddles and such. -- Lee

Shade	16 Aug 2004
The importnt thing is that he's not riding bareback... too much of taht these days.

Cerulean	21 Aug 2004
A deck of handsome and brotherly souls, all. The deck is manly and diverse, but there is a sadness in the autumn tones of some of the cards: in the 8 of Wands, the birds fly away from this sunset land. In the Guide of coins, the long shadow runs away from the flowers and the winged sylph. He faces what is hopefully a rising sun, but the sylph remembers something else as he stares at the coin. A most joyful card in other decks, the three of cups has a fountain of delightful smiles and a friendly brother and sister sharing an ice cream cone. The child is happy; the young man is quiet and warm, blending in with the olive shades of the grass and the sultry air of the sky. It is a quiet deck right now, in my hands. Nothing is hidden; but it doesn't burst with color as the WorldTree. Even when I see the snapshots of protesters or the skater pulled by dogs in glee, the colors of the deck are so subdued, the shadows are soft and subtle...perhaps the effect of twilight at the end of this day.. Regards, Cerulean

The 78th Fool	22 Aug 2004
I'm eagerly awaiting my copy - I've done a trade with Danuhbe! She wanted my Hudes and Crystal Tarots but didn't have anything to trade so I suggested she ordered me a copy of the Gay Tarot from Alida in return for my decks - Two very happy customers!!! I can't wait to get my hands on this deck. I won't use it all the time, but as a gay man with gay friends/clients that I read for it will provide a unique and quite personal perspective that I've never had at my disposal before. It's also firmly Rider based which is a real plus for me - the guys I read for are used to seeing Rider based decks so this will be easy to adjust to. To cap it all, the samples I've seen look visually stunning. I'll let you all know when the deck arrives. Chris. xx

telcontar	25 Aug 2004
Hi Lee! I thought, you might want to know, for if I were you, I'd be terribly proud of it: I was in town today, in a major bookstore and somehow I thought: "Well, let's see what they've got on the Tarot. It was not really exciting, a little shelf with some books (none of them really catched my eye) and some decks, mainly Lenormand-Decks, a Avalon Deck, Crowleys, off course, a Rider Waite, two Universal Rider Waites (those made my moth water, I admit, but I resisted :) - well, and, really, ONE GAY TAROT!!! Just wanted to share my exitement! It's nearly a pity I already owned one, I would have liked to buy it. But I'm quite sure someone worthy of it will do it and enjoy it as much as me. Best wishes, telcontar

Lee	25 Aug 2004
Wow, thanks, telcontar, it's nice to know I'm in such good company on that shelf! :) -- Lee

Glaucus	27 Aug 2004
Hi guys, I'm equally enthusiastic about receiving the Gay Tarot, however I have a question. I ordered it from a local Toronto bookstore back in July, who said that it would be available in December. I'm a patient lad, so I decided to wait. Then I came on here and noticed people were already complimenting their copies of the deck. Confused, I went onto Amazon.ca and discovered the existence of a "boxed edition" to be published December 2004, but which is already available for order and delivery. http://www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos/ASIN/0738705977/aeclectic-20/ I'm guessing the box set is the one I unknowingly ordered from the bookstore, when I presumed I'd only be getting the deck. Does the box set include a book? If it does, I'm considering ordering off Amazon now instead of waiting until Dec. I've read Lee's fantastic deck reviews on Tarot Passages. Do you think you could explain my dilemma, and perhaps a bit about what the book would contain? Yours is the last Tarot deck I'm ever planning on buying, so it's rather special ;) If this has already been discussed, sorry for the repeat. Thanks!

Lee	27 Aug 2004
Hi Glaucus, I can certainly understand your puzzlement, it can all get kind of confusing. First, I would love to tell you about what the book contains. Unfortunately, it doesn't exist. :D When Amazon says "boxed edition," I'm not sure whether they think it's a deck/book set (if so they're mistaken), or if they're considering it as a boxed set because it's the deck plus little white booklet. But in any event, that's all it is, the deck plus little white booklet. Lo Scarabeo chose not to publish a book for it at present, despite my willingness to write one! Secondly, Llewellyn, which is Lo Scarabeo's North America distributor, put an availability date on it of December, but I think it will be available before then. I know it's already available at Alidastore.com in Italy. I'm not sure of its exact availability in North America at this moment. Amazon U.S. says it's available in December, but you can order it now, not a pre-order but a regular order, and it says it "usually ships in one to two months." Amazon.ca says it's available in August, yet is only available as a pre-order. I think the fact that Amazon is so vastly and completely automated leads to this kind of confusion. I hate to sound like I'm always pushing Tarot Garden, but I really think that they are the best bet for North American customers for something like this. They will be shipping the decks out as soon as they get them from Llewellyn, and if you have any questions or concerns, there's real live people there who will actually respond to your e-mails, unlike Amazon. Or, of course, you could just wait until your bookstore gets it, since you've already placed an order with them. That way you'd avoid shipping charges. And hopefully they'll have it for you way before December, since my understanding is that the decks are on their way to Llewellyn at present, who will then ship them out to the various retail outlets. Sorry I've been so long-winded! Thanks for your kind words about my reviews. I feel quite honored that you feel that my deck would be the last you ever buy, but I won't be disappointed if you do in fact end up buying several more after that. Most of us here are incorrigible deck-buyers, including me.... :) -- Lee

le pendu	27 Aug 2004
Just adding my two cents: Glaucus, I second Lee's praise of Tarot Garden, their service and attention is outstanding, and (to me at least) it seems that they always get decks shipping out to people as soon as they are available. I don't know if the offer still is available, but I know that Tarot Garden is also offering the ability to have a Signed deck shipped to you. I took advantage of this as I love signed decks because they just seem more special. Looking forward to the deck Lee! robert

Glaucus	27 Aug 2004
Thanks Lee! I hadn't noticed Tarot Garden before, and will check it out. I say Gay Tarot is my last deck because I can't afford to be a collector, and because I only buy specific decks which appeal to certain parts of me, so that I have a deck for every mood. But, being gay and an anthropologist, I just knew I had to pick up this one. I discovered your interview on Tarot Garden and heartily agree with you that the Tarot market has been saturated with feminine- and lesbian-based decks. I think it's maninly because the secular market largely views Tarot and other divination as 'dainty', and more relegated to something women instead of men would do. And though most if not all feminist/lesbian decks have some statement to make against androcentricity, virtually none of them have anything to say of males who want nothing sexual of women, but who could still develop great relationships. I think at least one male-only deck isn't too much to ask in these regards, and I'm thrilled by yours. I plan to use your deck in conjunction with Steevee Postman's Cosmic Tribe, whose emphasis on sensuality and sex is balanced nicely by your focus on social and cultural dynamics. I think these contemporary decks are quintessential for any gay man. On the Interview page I also found your Moon card, which sent my jaw dropping and my eyes watering. If any card in particular has popped out so far, it's this one that speaks on so many levels, even having not read your LWB. It certainly evokes the thought of something splendidly romantic and sensual, but given the 'traditional' Moon meanings, it can certainly be more ominous. For one we don't know if this is a monogamous couple in love, a cheating man, or even a one-night stand, all very real possibilities. And all of them carry emotional and social responses running rampant in the gay community, like fidelity, fear of STIs, age and size favouritism, etc. It doesn't speak like a simple romantic love scene. I'm floored by the deck, and one way or another will get it assoon as I can. Hopefully I'll be able to review for Tarot passages.

Lee	27 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Glaucus On the Interview page I also found your Moon card, which sent my jaw dropping and my eyes watering. If any card in particular has popped out so far, it's this one that speaks on so many levels, even having not read your LWB. It certainly evokes the thought of something splendidly romantic and sensual, but given the 'traditional' Moon meanings, it can certainly be more ominous. For one we don't know if this is a monogamous couple in love, a cheating man, or even a one-night stand, all very real possibilities. And all of them carry emotional and social responses running rampant in the gay community, like fidelity, fear of STIs, age and size favouritism, etc. It doesn't speak like a simple romantic love scene. When I created that card, I had in mind a relatively simple concept of the mystery of sex. Your suggestions about more specific and ominous meanings are very interesting, and entirely valid. I think this will be my favorite part of this whole deck-creating process -- discovering what kinds of things others will see in the cards. -- Lee

Jeannette	27 Aug 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Lee Llewellyn, which is Lo Scarabeo's North America distributor, put an availability date on it of December, but I think it will be available before then. My latest "inside info" from Llewellyn puts the Gay (and Atlantis) Tarot(s) at their offices in mid-October. Personally -- and I emphasize personally -- I believe the Gay Tarot will arrive on this side of the Atlantic earlier still, but my repeated queries to my contacts regarding the possibility of the N.A. supply being available sooner haven't generated any confirmations. So right now, I have to officially stick with the mid-October estimate. -- Jeannette The Tarot Garden P.S. -- Thank you, Lee and Le Pendu, for your kind comments about our services. What a great business to be in, eh? :)

telcontar	28 Aug 2004
I will try it wherever it seems to fit :) I would like to start a Gay Tarot study group. As this thread is already very long and there is a lot of discussion on single cards and Lee is around too join discussions (at least sometimes) I think this would be a great opportunity. I will start a thread exclusively on this matter in Study Groups/ General and hope you'll join me!

Centaur	19 Nov 2004
I saw this deck in Borders last night, and I was sorely tempted to purchase it. However, the box encasing the cards had been damaged and was all bashed up. Ugh... I was p*ssed off to say the least! Soooo... I will wait until I stumble upon it again.

tarotbear	11 Jan 2005
Just came back after an eighteen-month absence - bumping this up so I can read it!

firemaiden	11 Jan 2005
Welcome Back Tarot Bear!

tarotbear	14 Jan 2005
Actually, the reason I came back to Aeclectic was to read the threads and discussions of the Gay Tarot which I got delivered of right after the New Year. I will probably write a review for it ... not that I do a lot of writing! LOL!!

Fulgour	14 Jan 2005
because of the wide ranging significance of this deck, complete card scans should be made freely available.

Centaur	14 Jan 2005
Again, I saw this deck in Borders. A nice, fresh, un-crumpled deck too! But I resisted. Dunno what it is actually, but again I found myself unsure of whether or not to purchase it. Perhaps it is more to do with my financial situation!! Hahaha. :D

sharpchick	20 Jan 2005
This deck is on my wish list. . .

The Gay Tarot thread was originally posted on 07 Nov 2003 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.