Navigators Tarot of the Mystic Sea

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 20 Nov 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Moonbow*	20 Nov 2003
Does anyone actually understand these cards? I love them, especially because they were bought for me by my son who said they appealed to him because they looked 'modern'. I have bought the book, which describes the cards incredibly well but, I cant quite get to grips the cards themselves... Having said that I would never part with them either. Any tips anyone? Moonbow*

Cerulean	20 Nov 2003
I enjoyed the book, but gave the book and deck set away and then kept a small deck with a little white booklet that I got in a discount bin. The ordering is rather a fresh concept for me, going from what I consider backwards to forwards...gave me a fresh perspective. A card a day for a week to a month might give you a taste if this works for you. When I did it, I simply went from the first card description in the book and read it, thought about the symbolism during the day, and so on. I actually didn't work it as a deck for more than a few three card pulls. After working with it, you might check out the Roots of Asia Tarot, as the artist said he worked with Julia Turk to bring his deck to fruition. I didn't see actual correlations, but there is a Thothlike feel to Navigators and Roots of Asia for me---but for me, the Roots of Asia is what I chose to keep. The colors and moods in the Navigators are well done and interesting. I think you'll enjoy just the richness of one card every day. Mari H. P.S. If they someday do a bigger deck, I'm thinking it would work better for the rich symbolism in the trumps. The coloring reminds me a little of the Stone Tarot that I saw on Aeclectic.net.

Myrrha	20 Nov 2003
I had these cards for a while and liked them. They seemed to work well for intuitive reading as there are so many details that you see something different each time. I was not trying to "understand" the cards so much as just to use them. I enjoyed using them but didn't find them inspiring enough to keep. -Myrrha

Moonbow*	20 Nov 2003
Hi Mari_Hoshizaki, When I got the book, I went through the deck, just as you did, reading each card (there is just so much symbolism in the cards that I think can be missed without the book). After doing that, I then went off to try (I did say 'try') to learn a bit about the Quabalah!! I really should give them another go because I only ever tried a few readings with them. I also have the Roots of Asia, (so beautiful) but I really see them as more of a budism deck than Quabalah. Both decks need another try by me. I think I will try the card a day with NToTMS first, as you said. Moonbow*

Moonbow*	20 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Myrrha They seemed to work well for intuitive reading as there are so many details that you see something different each time. This is what I find difficult, I think. I find that I have to keep referring to the book as some of the cards are so obscure. I definately need more practice with them then thanks Mari and Myrrha Moonbow*

Astraea	20 Nov 2003
I'm glad to see this thread, and I, too, plan to take Mari's suggestions on how to approach the deck. I love the artwork and think the cards are beautiful and fascinating, but was so disappointed to find that the deck just doesn't speak to me.

Moonbow*	20 Nov 2003
Hi Astraea Would you ever part with the deck though? There's something about it that makes me keep it Moonbow*

Astraea	20 Nov 2003
No, Moonbow, I wouldn't part with the deck, either -- it is very absorbing and draws me in (like a dream does), but I can't fathom what it's trying to say! Very frustrating.

Rusty Neon	21 Nov 2003
Basically, it's a tarot deck in the Golden Dawn tradition but with the deck creator's own spin. Maybe the Golden Dawn's manuscript _Book T_ would help at least in some way: http://www.private.org.il/GD/Book-T.html

Astraea	21 Nov 2003
Thanks for that link, Rusty Neon. I knew when I bought it that this was essentially a qabbalistic deck, but was hoping that it would also be intuitive; perhaps it is, for some people.

Rusty Neon	21 Nov 2003
Crowley's _Book of Thoth_ may also be useful at least to some degree, as I read somewhere that the deck creator had been inspired by Crowley's tarot deck. http://www.private.org.il/GD/ I don't have the Navigators deck, but I've seen a sample deck and the book, at the store. The symbolism is way too busy (dizzying, in fact) for me, even though I enjoy acquiring GD-inspired decks. I'm probably out to lunch on this, but it also seemed that the deck creator just varied the keywords for her deck, for the sake of varying.

Astraea	21 Nov 2003
Yes, exactly! The symbolism and imagery are dizzying -- much too busy, just as you say. Today I bought Lon DuQuette's new book on the Thoth Tarot, and I do have Crowley's Book of Thoth, both of which would probably help with the Navigators deck -- but I just took another look at it, and am not inclined to invest a great deal of labor and study there; would rather stick with the Thoth and Wang's Golden Dawn deck in the qabbalistic vein, I think. Thank you again for providing those links, both of which are excellent.

Moonbow*	22 Nov 2003
Astraea, Do you have the book to go with the deck? It does help with identifying why certain items appear in the cards and the colours of the people relating to the spheres and paths on the tree of life. You probably know this. My difficulty is that because the cards are packed with symbols, I get a bit saturated and dont read them intuitively. They're definately a good study of the Quabalah, although from a different angle and the link from Rusty Neon could be very useful, thanks. Moonbow*

Astraea	22 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Moonbow* Astraea, My difficulty is that because the cards are packed with symbols, I get a bit saturated and dont read them intuitively. Moonbow* Yes, that's my issue with the deck, too.

Rusty Neon	22 Nov 2003
If, because of its differences rom other qabalistic decks and because of the non-intuitive nature of the imagery, the Navigators deck is a study deck rather than either an intuitive deck or can-be-used-straight-of-the-box deck, this then raises the question of whether the insights gained from studying the Navigators deck are worth the time investment. Did the deck creator in fact have a grasp of the qabalistic traditions and give her own reflected take, or did she just vary things up just to be different? I'd be interested to learn of an example of any particular insight or experience on a given card (or any particular bringing home of GD/RWS/Thoth concepts of the card) that anyone has garnered from study of the Navigators deck that wouldn't have been as garnering from using GD, RWS or Thoth decks? I'm asking this question sincerely. In fact, in the past, I had wanted to buy the Navigators deck, because I like to compare qabalistic decks. However, each occasion that I was in the store, leafing through the sample cards and the book at the store, as had as I tried, I couldn't convince myself that the Navigators deck was worth buying for intellectual interest (as it had no visual interest for me). For me, a deck must be either visually interesting OR intellectually interesting. This deck appeared to have neither of those two virtues.

Moonbow*	22 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Rusty Neon Did the deck creator in fact have a grasp of the qabalistic traditions and give her own reflected take, or did she just vary things up just to be different? I know virtually nothing about the Cabala, quabalah,Kabala!!! but thought you might like to see a quote from the book: "We know for a fact that the cards in their current positions on the Tree are definitely incorrect, and it is further suspected that someone in the past switched them around in order to hide the esoteric message of the Major Arcana. The Navigators Tarot makes an attempt to replace the cards in their correct positions, but the layout obtained is open to conjecture and it may finally be necessary for other students of the Cabala to make further rearrangements" The Cabala does tend to fly right over my head! Although I have tried. This is one of the reasons that I will not part with the deck. Maybe one day it will all make sense :confused: ??? I would say this is definately a study deck, but maybe I should have a deck with the order in its traditional form first, before attempting to understand this one. For people more experienced in this topic, I would think there is probably alot of interest here. Just an opinion.

Astraea	22 Nov 2003
I agree with you, Rusty Neon, and that's why I've decided not to invest further time and energy in this deck, intoxicating as its imagery is; I've decided to stick with the Thoth and Wang's Golden Dawn decks for Qabbalistic insight. While I don't believe that this deck is actually gimmicky, in my opinion it's just too much work for small yield.

Astraea	22 Nov 2003
Moonbow -- people have argued about the "correct" ordering of the deck for at least as long as there have been disagreements about whether or not to use reversals. In the end, it boils down to whatever feels right and best to each individual, on the basis of his or her own study. If you don't resonate with Qabbala (and you're right, there are many, many ways even to spell the word!), it just means that your way to the center is through another door.

Moonbow*	22 Nov 2003
Funny you should say that Astraea, I have been looking at the Tarot of the Sephiroth recently. I know Moongold uses it and I love the images that I've seen. May be that's the way to go. M*

HOLMES	22 Nov 2003
i do not have this deck, BUT IT IS NOT FOR A LACK OF NOT WANTING :o) i had a deal set to go however it didn't work out due to constant changes in the deal and not because i changed my mind due to this deck. it was the review on tarot passages that attracted me to it. now what might help . 1. get the streamline book first to give you an overview of the established order. in this case it would definatley be the chicken qabbalah ( long live the chicken ehhe) 2. in my deck the jungian tarot, wang changes the established astrology and hence the minors cards through that established astrology. as a result i been having troubles studying that deck (and my friend said i have to learn the old way first ) 3.and so before studying the new way (unless it truly really grabs you then you were meant in my feelin to learn this way ) one should establish themselves in the basics. this is where the chicken qabbalah (and the book qabalistic tarot, as well as the tarot of the sephiroth if you pick that one up ) for the rider, and the toth (and the bota ) both come from the established order they studied in the golden dawn. in that regard , toth and waite are so much closer then one might think, in relation to astrology and qabbalah. (if you get the book qabalistic tarot by robert wang IT IS NECESSARY for it compares the gd, marsielles , toth, and waite and one sees the similarities more then the differnces) so to expand on this , example the qabbalah of the waite, toth, gd, and all tarot based on those deck use the 7 ancient/old planets and do not include pluto , neptune , uranus. and so as you look at the decanates for example (astrology in the minors ) the 2 of wands in the toth and the waite are the same for they are in the same in their source tarot the gd. now to change the order one has to know the basics example. adding in the new planets if you feel so inclined , changing the paths to fit how it makes more sense to you . even so , it is said there are ten spheres , no more no less. (it was also said the earth is flat,, and look at how that been disproven) 4. gareth knight changes the paths , as well does the rj stewart the creator of the merlin, and dreampower tarot (i had to stop studying the dreampower,, his inverted tree of life , i am not ready to study it , and i had that deck for years, _) 5. give it time,, for that is necessary in the study of all things. example of this i had my jungian tarot and handbook since oh about 1992/3 and it was til last year i finally understand what that colour was on minors.. the sephiroth of the tree of life. honestly i was going why the hell is this one black and this one white and so forth. 6. once you know the basics of the waite, and toth, and qabbalah and the astrology associated with the qabbalah, you can then look at the changes in the navigators and not have to learn a whole new system , nay .. but changes and how the author/desgined changed the card images completly. 7. what is a tarot is a question you have to ask yourself in this regard as well. does three of swords have to mean sorrow ? like it does in the gd, waite, and toth tarot ? or as you change the path of the major arcana, the meaning would change a great deail. for me if it is recnogizable as a tarot ,(the enochian tarot is a hard deck for me to study at this time,, due to the extra major acana cards but i trust it will come in good time is it a tarot ?) (the soul tidings despite extra cards is a tarot for me ) so if it is a tarot , just a changed system it is worth studying for raising up your mind view of the world. but if it changes the system so much (i don't have the book to read or the deck ) that you can not read it as a tarot , does it not become something new. ? just based on the information i have by review, and this thread it is a tarot , just based in a differnt point of view, so it isn't a traditional tarot but a tarot by modern standards for it has the assocations that a deep tarotologist should be able to understand yes?

Rusty Neon	22 Nov 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Astraea While I don't believe that this deck is actually gimmicky, in my opinion it's just too much work for small yield. "Too much work for small yield" somes it up well. (I was being too hard on her in my earlier posts above, in suggesting that there were _no_ novel insights. I tend to be more exacting of study decks than I am of straight clones or from intuitive decks.) She may well have some novel insights ... but they're trees hidden in the forest, and require a lot of studying to find them. In my case (i.e., the early stages, STILL!), the time is perhaps better spent on the more common study decks.

lunakasha	04 Feb 2004
I just ordered this deck, after many, many moments of indecision. I am very excited about it because I find the bold colors and "movement" of the images very appealing. Having said that, I have read several reviews, as well as forum discussions on this thread, which have described the deck as confusing, too "busy", too "qabalistic", and not worth the effort to make it "workable". This is all good information, and I appreciate everyone's contributions on this thread, but I am a bit nervous because I have no knowledge of qabalistic theory or qabalistic decks (other than Thoth, which sits gathering dust cuz I can't work with it). However, I am definitely willing to make an effort to work with this deck. My question is: has anyone here been successful in reading with the NTMS deck??? If so, I would appreciate any advice you might be able to share with me.... Thanks to everyone...blessings to you all! :) Luna

lunakasha	08 Feb 2004
Hey, can anyone help me out with this one??? I just ordered the Navigators deck, and I am looking for feedback from anyone who is familiar with it...please share your thoughts, pros and cons, about using this deck. Thanks! :) Luna

Diana	08 Feb 2004
Quote: Originally posted by lunakasha My question is: has anyone here been successful in reading with the NTMS deck??? Not me. It's way too complicated. Cluttered, in fact. Pretty pictures though. Tarot should be simple. If it gets too complicated, it's not Tarot anymore.

lunakasha	08 Feb 2004
Thanks Diana! That seems to be the consensus on the Navigators deck...too busy, not easy to read with...but pretty! Well, I have to admit that the colorful artwork is what drew me to this deck, so even if I can't read with it, I don't think I'll be too disappointed... I was thinking that I might photocopy my cards and make them into a NTMS poster...so I can enjoy looking at the cards without actually using them ;) :) Luna

Moonbow*	09 Feb 2004
Hi Luna I would love to have someone to talk to about this deck. Maybe we could post observations or questions here for each other and anyone else who wants to join in?? I have picked it up several times, put the cards in different orders, tried to understand the colours (have you done that yet? - its very interesting) and then put them away again and got my tarot of the spirit out instead. Moonbow*

lunakasha	09 Feb 2004
Moonbow: That would be GREAT!!! I am looking for people who are interested in this deck, who would maybe like to work as a group on getting to know it better, if that makes sense? My understanding is that this is not an easy deck to work with and not ideal for beginners...but that isn't going to deter me! ;) I am expecting to receive my deck within the next few days, and will post here as soon as I have it in my sweaty little hands :D In the meantime, if there is anything you would like to share, to get things rolling...please do!!! I am anxious to hear anything, good or bad, that you or others would like to discuss. This could be a lot of fun, especially if we can get a few more people to join the discussion! Thanks Moonbow! Luna :D Peace & love...from one moon-child to another!

lunakasha	09 Feb 2004
Hi Moonbow! Just out of curiosity...can you tell me what you found out about the colors??? Do you have the book, and if so, is it helpful in your work with the cards??? I ordered the book and deck, because all of the reviews I read were very clear: GET THE BOOK!!! So I am hoping it will provide some insight.... :) Luna

Moonbow*	10 Feb 2004
Hi Luna I think the book is essential too. There is alot I do not understand but the book does point out many symbols in the cards and their reason for being there. I think it's a case of delving into the Kabbalah a bit (I'm not sure how much) It's a subject that I think can take a lifetime to learn but I just want to know enough to understand my cards! There are sites showing all the sephiroth colours which relate to the colours of the people in NTMS. I have found a site with the colours on but I haven't read everything on the site yet because I'm just off to work but it may be a start for you (and me) Its here: http://sourceryforge.org/wiki.phtml?title=Tree_of_Life Talk again later when you have your deck. Moonbow*

BlueLotus	27 Feb 2004
I do not like to think of Tarot Reading as hard work. In fact I like tarot because I could develp my own pace when doing readings but with so many decks on the market it would be helpful to be able to 'click' with a few decks without having to suffer in the process. Although I own this deck, I tucked it away for a while only to bring it back and look at the images at times, and do some short readings, hard as it may seem with this deck, because it demands your full attention . Regardless, I decided to treat it as any other deck ( which it is not ), read the LWB rather than the accompanying book, and make it one of my favorite decks, for the time being. I just wish to be able to decipher these images without having to go through any labour pains. :( Oh, and the one word that accompanies thes cards makes it even harder to read into them :confused:

BlueLotus	27 Feb 2004
Let"s see . I got the Lovers card today, and I was unable to contain my excitment until I read discrimination as a description for this card. So I went ahead, opened the LWB and read along ................ "Through the mirror of perception, you can see that your missing part bears an exact resemblance to your known part, but is also complementary. The process you are going through demands a great deal of audacity, for in order to take on this unfamiliar version of yourself , you must leave behind the outworn idea of your own individuality. From this union within you will notice a tremendous exhilaration, for this is your full potential. Sorry I have no scans for this card Does anyone else think that you can describe this card in lesser words, such as making peace with yourself, and probably finding love , or something along this line ?

Moonbow*	27 Feb 2004
Feebie I have read both of your last posts but I keep getting interuptions so this is a bit rushed. Deja vu is at work here because I got this deck out this morning with a determination to get to know it. I'm so glad to see your post. What you have said about the Lovers is perfect - to me. But I also think you made alot of sense about using the LWB. I have never done that with this deck, I've always used the big one. I need to approach this deck in a more 'light' fashion or it wont get used at all so I will be posting here because this is going to be my daily spread deck for a while too. As far a keywords on the cards go, I am not a fan (whatever the deck). So I will follow your advise and ignore that. I will post more later

BlueLotus	27 Feb 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Moonbow* Feebie I have read both of your last posts but I keep getting interuptions so this is a bit rushed. Deja vu is at work here because I got this deck out this morning with a determination to get to know it. I'm so glad to see your post. What you have said about the Lovers is perfect - to me. But I also think you made alot of sense about using the LWB. I have never done that with this deck, I've always used the big one. I need to approach this deck in a more 'light' fashion or it wont get used at all so I will be posting here because this is going to be my daily spread deck for a while too. As far a keywords on the cards go, I am not a fan (whatever the deck). So I will follow your advise and ignore that. I will post more later I am going to do the same and try to pick one card from this deck every day. I am glad someone joined in. I guess any or both can post our impressions if one feels like it at any particular time, without straining our brains. :)

lunakasha	27 Feb 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Feebie ................ " Through the mirror of perception, you can see that your missing part bears an exact resemblance to your known part, but is also complementary. The process you are going through demands a great deal of audacity, for in order to take on this unfamiliar version of yourself , you must leave behind the outworn idea of your own individuality. From this union within you will notice a tremendous exhilaration, for this is your full potential . Hi Feebie! Let's see if maybe I can help you out.....I think what she is saying is that the Lovers represent two sides of yourself, rather than two separate people. (looking at the card now for possible clues...haha ;)). She is saying that you should challenge yourself to go in a different direction than you normally would, to go outside your comfort zone and approach things from another perspective. It sounds like a "leap of faith", where you question who you "really" are...as opposed to the person you've always thought you were. For example, if I had drawn this card and read her interpretation, I would automatically think in terms of a career change, which is something I have contemplated now for months. It is an exciting, yet scary prospect, considering a career change after many years out of school and admitting to yourself that what you have been doing is no longer fulfilling....this card says to me: it is time to stop dragging your feet and just go for it, try something new, scary as it may be, because by taking this risk you will finally realize your purpose in life, and will be happier living an authentic life. I know this was supposed to be a "shorter" description (sorry)....I hope this helps! For me this card was an eye-opener, like maybe I *should* have drawn it for myself....LOL!!! Anyway....I was thinking that I really want to spend more time getting to know this deck, which I find soooooo beautiful and interesting to look at! Maybe I will also start using it for my daily card and posting here with you and Moonbow??? That way we can learn from each other...our own little Navigator's Support Group! :) Luna

Moonbow*	27 Feb 2004
Cool Luna, I might be a few days because I need to 'get friendly' with my deck again, then I will post soemthing ;) Moonbow* :)

Cerulean	27 Feb 2004
1...and choosing the better one for you...perhaps that time, one needs to go for the untamed energy...perhaps one needs to be in the rule-based path...perhaps one has to be the balance in the middle way. What attracts involves decision, a discriminating sensibility or sensitive choosing based on the attractiveness of the fit at the time. Which one are you or perhaps what does the scenario seen involve for you? Kind of glad I picked up the book again. ------------------------------------------- 2. Maybe clarification using keywords...based on booklet stairway layout suggestion, but simplified: Put the card in question in the middle, build a four pointed compass around it with one card above, one to the right, one below, one to the left. Move the cards so only the keywords are seen on top, the top card being overlapped by the middle card, the one to the right and left on the same line as the middle and the bottom card is the last word. See if a sentence, ideas or anything comes up in comparison. My keyword on top: revelation (star). My three keywords across: authority (four of pentacles), penetration (knight of swords), foundation (three of pentacles. The card at the bottom: delight (four of wands). I suspect a sense of humor. Thanks for the thread! Mari H. Mari H.

Moonbow*	28 Feb 2004
Mari, Thankyou so much for joining in, you have given me something else to do with the cards. Firstly, I don't have the stairway layout in my LWB or large book, so I would be interested to know where you got it from. I have no layouts in the big book and just the Web Spread in the LWB. My cards were: exaltation (Hermit), transforamtion (Death), economy (8 of Pentacles), discrimination (Lovers), and transition (King of Cups) A change afoot, maybe to do with money, Thanks Mari, I enjoyed this

lunakasha	28 Feb 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Moonbow* Mari, Thankyou so much for joining in, you have given me something else to do with the cards. Firstly, I don't have the stairway layout in my LWB or large book, so I would be interested to know where you got it from. I have no layouts in the big book and just the Web Spread in the LWB. My cards were: exaltation (Hermit), transforamtion (Death), economy (8 of Pentacles), discrimination (Lovers), and transition (King of Cups) A change afoot, maybe to do with money, Thanks Mari, I enjoyed this Hi Moonbow! I was also curious about the Stairway Spread, so I checked in my LWB and found it on pages 38-39, the back of the book. It is not a separate spread, but rather a subdivision of the Web Spread (pp. 36-37)....Mari was suggesting that you could use the right-hand "stairway" described on pg. 38 as the "Line of the Future"...at least I think that is it....Mari_H will probably respond and elaborate on this.... :) Luna

lunakasha	28 Feb 2004
Well, today is my first day using the Navigators deck for my daily card draw, and as promised I am posting here with the card and my interpretation for it.....(drumroll please) :Dhehe The 8 of Pentacles: Economy There are two men standing here, side by side. The man on the left looks poised and confident; his five pentacles are all lined up, balanced on top of one another, and he seems to be in control of the situation. He is looking over the head of the other man with a telescope, maybe looking ahead to new horizons??? He seems more focused on his own interests than on the man beside him, who struggles with his three limp, *melted* pentacles falling at his feet. The second man is also focused on himself, intent upon the task of balancing the pentacles??? I am thinking that he is trying to compete with the other man's "model of pentacle perfection" and getting frustrated that they do not cooperate. My personal interpretation of this card is that it is important to look around and pay attention to others; don't have tunnel vision or you will either become arrogant and self-centered or frustrated and defeated. Do not be afraid to help others in need, or to ask for help yourself.... The LWB defines the 8 of Pentacles as follows: *economy* Money is only a tool, a link in the chain between effort and sustenance. To sustain, it must be saved; to gain, it must be used as a living sculpture of one's will. You will make good decisions regarding investments. Hmmmm....interesting! I would love to hear any feedback, comments etc. from anyone who has the deck and maybe had a different interpretation than I did.... I am choosing not to use the companion book right now....as someone already pointed out, maybe simplicity is the key with this deck? Thanks for the opportunity to share...it was very helpful! More tomorrow..... :D Luna

Moonbow*	28 Feb 2004
Found it Luna, thanks, I'm doing a three card spread each morning to find out how my day is going to go. Then I come back to it in the evening and see if anything fits. I then add comments to the spread of cards about how they fitted into the day (in red pen) [thanks lark].and yesterday I swapped decks to this one to get to know it a bit better. I am now going to incorporate the keywords in the interpretation and run with this a while to see how it goes. This morning I had persuasion (Queen of Pentacles), abundance (3 of Cups) and seclusion (8 of Cups) So far I can fit this into my day so its a great way to get to know the deck. I'm really enjoying this and I'm seeing the deck in a different light. I can keep the studying for when I have the time, but I like the fact that this deck is more than a reading deck, you can make it as easy or difficult as you like - this is probably why I am not bored with it. Moonbow*

lunakasha	28 Feb 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Moonbow* I'm really enjoying this and I'm seeing the deck in a different light. I can keep the studying for when I have the time, but I like the fact that this deck is more than a reading deck, you can make it as easy or difficult as you like - this is probably why I am not bored with it. Moonbow* I couldn't agree more!!! I think maybe I was scared off a bit by some of the comments I had read....but now that I am actually taking the time and working with it, it seems to be working for me! The 8 of Pentacles, as defined in the LWB, is talking about money, whether it is best to put it away or use it...that you should have faith in yourself that you are making good decisions. This message was very relevant to my thought process this morning! :D This is going to be fun and a great learning experience, I can feel it!!! :) Luna

Cerulean	29 Feb 2004
I had just done a quick hunt again and was going to say I must have dreamed the stairway insert, but it is just a portion of the web spread. I don't think I have anything more, it was just a small idea to help focus on the suggested concept. Some people like the magnetic word games and make sense of random words. I had the idea that the keywords could be used. Maybe using the keyword of the card in question in with other card keywords might be inspirational as someone tries to make sense of a card...to form a sentence is one creative word game. Mari H.

lunakasha	29 Feb 2004
This is my second day using the Navigators deck for my daily card draw...and, are you ready for this??? I drew THE SAME CARD as yesterday!!! I kid you not, I shuffled the deck thoroughly, cut twice and then cut for the card...there again was the 8 of Pentacles!!!! I think maybe *someone* is trying to tell me something here, reinforcing the theme from yesterday about money issues.... Since I was in shock about pulling the same card, and feeling it was important for me to practice a bit with interpretation of the cards, I decided to draw a second card, for clarification (perhaps) of the first card.... Nine of Wands: Intensity Here is a purple man holding two flaming wands, they are crossing his chest and almost seem to be floating atop his fingertips...his face definitely reflects "intensity", as he is staying focused on floating above the (dead? sleeping?) man below him. The moon behind him suggests some unknown forces at work, or unconscious influences....interesting that he wears a cat-face necklace, as I have a strong connection with cats, but not sure of its significance here...perhaps "strength", as in the lion represented on the trump card??? Not sure...so I will consult the LWB for another perspective.... LWB: Approach the unknown with skepticism and determination; carefully double-check interpretations and assumptions. You are seeking the right path at this time in your life, but are confused and misled by linear thinking. Let go and allow your instincts to pick your actions, for they will reflect your destiny. WOW.....again, this sounds exactly like what I am going through right now, with the whole change-in-career-direction issue....if I look at the two cards together, they are both telling me to trust my instincts, don't be afraid to take risks....it makes sense, now the key word here is *trust*, meaning trusting myself to just go ahead and do it, ACT on my instincts...that is the hardest part! Anyone care to comment on my interpretation of either card??? I would love to hear from anyone who has the deck and might have had a similar or different response than I did (or LWB did). :) Luna

Moonbow*	29 Feb 2004
Hi Luna I just looked at your two cards. Very interesting that you got the same card as yesterday, as you know this is something that you can't ignore. The way I see the eight of pentacles is that the man on the left has his wealth on show, stacked up in front of him and he is even standing on one of the pentacles. He quite proud of the outwards show of his wealth. Whereas the man on the left is hurredly trying to put his in the black sack, out of sight (like he is saving it for later). To me the keyword fits in really well with the picture too being 'economy' The nine of wands is a strange card to interpret. The man (?) standing is actually coming out of the body of the one on the ground. It's almost like man on the ground is exhausted and has somehow found some inner strength (the one coming out of his body) to continue and the keyword is intensity. As for the moon in the card, as you say, it usually represents something hidden and if I think of the RWS deck (I know, I shouldn't, but can't help it!) to me the 9 of wands can also mean hidden enemies - which also fits. I don't know how this fits with your day - what do you think? As for me, my three cards today were: 5 Pentacles -adversity Destiny (Justice) - equilibrium Knight Swords - penetration Also the Star fell out while shuffling which is 'revelation' So far the only thing that makes any sense to me is the Star card which according to the LWB is all about meditation and it's interesting that before pulling any of these cards I meditated for a very long time. Do you have any suggestions for my cards? Hey Feebie where are you?......

Moonbow*	08 Mar 2004
Where is everbody :( Luna, Feebie, Marie........anybody.....:( Well I'll just have to talk to myself then :D I have been looking at the four Queens and I think they are my favourite cards in the deck. In fact I like the minors mor than the majors in this deck. Just look at the Queen of Pentacles (or Water of Earth). She sits in a clearing in the forrest, the trees have vines growing up them and there are monkeys on her throne. Her robes are the colour of earth, brown, orange and green and she wears a flower in her hair. Beside her the tabletop is the pentacle and she holds a piece of clay (apparently) in the middle of it. In the background there is an elephant on higer ground and the trickle of a river which turns into a waterfall behind her. I'll post more on the other Queens later Moonbow*

lunakasha	08 Mar 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Moonbow* Where is everbody :( Luna, Feebie, Marie........anybody.....:( Well I'll just have to talk to myself then :D ((((Moonbow*)))) HEY there, Moonbow*.....sorry to have deserted you for so long....trying to juggle too many things, I suppose....but I do want you to know that I have kept up my agreement to use my Navigators deck for daily readings! Yes, I can at least take credit for doing that much....LOL :laugh: What I can tell you is that I have been literally AMAZED by these beautiful little cards....I was so afraid that they would be impossible to connect with, and instead I am feeling a very strong intuitive bond...almost eerie sometimes! How about you??? So, here I am, and have pulled all four Queens to take a closer look....yes, all of them are lovely...I have placed the Q of Pentacles to the left, followed by the Queen of Cups, Swords and Wands on the right. I have to agree with you: the Queen of Pentacles catches my attention immediately, as I have a definite preference for the pentacles suit in general.....earthy, nature-based (that's ME) yet also symbolizing material wealth (something I want but don't yet have :() This Queen is very beautiful, very grounded, no pun intended! I love the monkeys too...they look like they might want to whisper something in her ear....this is a great card! Love the trees, this is a place where I would go for a nice, quiet retreat from my crazy home-environment.....ahhhh! The next Queen that catches my eye is that of the Wands suit....I think perhaps the irresistable sunset skies and swaying palm trees were calling to me....she looks very calm for someone with flames lapping at her feet, doesn't she??? And what do you make of the claws gripping the back of her throne? Reminds me of my cat, Bailey, who loves to jump up on my shoulder while I sit in front of the computer :D Thanks, Moonbow*, for bringing me back to this thread...it was definitely on my mind, but sometimes it takes awhile for me to get back on track! I have also wanted to post here about a recent reading I did with this deck....which I will talk about in my next post!!! Feebie?.....Marie?......hello???? I look forward to hearing more from everyone here....this deck is becoming a wonderful new companion for me, and so I will make an effort to stay more connected to this thread ;) :D Luna

lunakasha	08 Mar 2004
Hello, Moonbow*and fellow Navigators fans! I have wanted to post this for over a week now, but have been very, very busy lately :( In fact, I did finally post this earlier today, on another thread....so rather than re-type the whole thing, here is a link: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23500&perpage=10&pagenumber=2 This reading was soooooo incredibly awesome....I just couldn't believe how dead-on the cards were, and that I was able to give my brother a good reading....the cards gave me what I needed to know, and I passed it on to him....COURAGE! Any feedback on this reading, interpretations of the cards, etc. would be most welcome...thanks! :D Luna

BlueLotus	09 Mar 2004
.....Well, I took out the 4 queens as well, and looked thoroughly at each and every one of them. There is a lot to see indeed in each card, and I was so amazed at the images. They look as though they had always been there. But why are we starting with the queens, not the Kings? :confused: Anyway, let me see. I am also feeling that the is a 'comfortably' happy one. She is so serene, relaxed, connected and contented. She is sitting in a garden and seems to be very down to earth. Being completed by nature surrounding her , she is the kind of person who has it all. I wonder why the card is entitled 'persuasion'? who is she trying to persuade? , seems a bit more agitated, and ready for a good fight. She is flying in the air, and the crow over the top of the back of her seat will follow her orders. She seems to have a mesmerizing character, that works wonders . The card is entitled 'subversion', and the book mentions that this queen will demolish in order to build. This seems a 'dangerous' sort of queen. She will not work with what is but will create her own comfortable reality, whatever power, and energy it may take to achieve it.

lunakasha	09 Mar 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Feebie [b}....she is sitting in a garden and seems to be very down to earth. being completed by nature surrounding her , she is the kind of person who has it all. i wonder why the card is entitled 'persuasion'? who is she trying to persuade?[/b] Good question, Feebie (and glad to have you back! :)) I love this card.....the Queen and Nine of Pentacles are two of my favorite cards because they represent the "ideal me"....in other words, I would love to be in a very comfortable position in life....grounded spiritually but also having enough material wealth to enjoy the freedom of living my own life! For me that includes being able to spend time creating a beautiful flower garden, or take long walks in the woods....true freedom for me means not having to worry about money, working hard but also having time to enjoy the rewards and benefits that come from hard work and living a good life. I thought about how the word "persuasion" might apply to the Queen of Pentacles...I was thinking about someone like Oprah. She has the "power of persuasion", because of her enormous wealth and success...and she uses this power to try to help others, guiding them toward what may be a more spiritually-fulfilled, happier life....she teaches by example. :) Luna

Moonbow*	13 Mar 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Feebie But why are we starting with the queens, not the Kings? Hi Feebie, so glad you joined us. You can start wherever you like it was just that I have always liked the Queens in this deck so wanted to post about them. I feel I know the Queens better now too. The Queen of Swords (water of Air): She is such a bitch - don't you think? She looks so cool and controlled and harsh. I think she is pointing her sword at someone saying "off with his head" The book says she is surrounded by a fog (air+moisure) but the fog is also part of her robes so she really is water of air. Great card. M* PS - luna, forgot to say - I saw your reading for your brother and it was brilliant. These card really do speak when they start speaking don't they.

lunakasha	13 Mar 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Moonbow* PS - luna, forgot to say - I saw your reading for your brother and it was brilliant. These card really do speak when they start speaking don't they. Thanks, Moonbow* :D And, yes, they sure do speak...loudly and clearly! I am so glad I took a chance on these cards...the more time I spend with them, the more they speak...I find that they will tell me a story, as long as I am paying attention and not allowing my conscious "will" or ego to block it out....it takes some practice to just LET GO and listen...but is getting easier. ;) OK, today's card was ART: verification , which corresponds with the XIV trump, Temperance. I looked at the card and tried not to let my preconceived "definition" of the Temperance card influence my reading....this one, I'll admit, is a bit tricky! There is definitely A LOT going on here...several animals, a man (or woman???) with a bear mask, touching the tip of a yellow sword, holding a flashlight and has a pouch of arrows on his back (but no bow to launch them with!) Hmmmm....OK!!! For some reason, my eye keeps moving back to the other man, a RED man with blue feet (very Seuss-ish!) and wearing a bathing cap...he is crouched down, looking toward the bear-person, as if waiting for something, maybe a defensive position??? OK....what am I getting from this card??? RED man is challenging BEAR person to a battle/duel/argument of sorts, but bear guy calmly stands his ground...the cat looks up at him, wondering what will happen next (maybe he is waiting to be fed :)). RED man feels he has the edge, because he can always jump on his horse and ride away if things get messy....he sees his future in the purple mountains behind him. But before he can go there, he needs to go in another direction to get the horse shoed...PATIENCE, is that what I am being reminded of??? Yes, BEAR person has patience, clarity and peace...RED man does not, but is beginning to realize that he needs to be patient. That in order to get to point B, he first needs to take a detour to point A...it may not be what he wants to do, but he needs to do it anyway...."first things first" is the message. So....tell me, what do you think??? Any comments on this card and/or my interpretation....please, I can use all the help I can get! :D :) Luna

BlueLotus	14 Mar 2004
Today I drew the 9 of pentacles. A very welcome card if you ask me. This card is entitled Aquisition. A purpelish figure places his/her hand on a post with 5 pentacles and looks ahead. There are also a couple of uneven oval shaped diagrams, each has 2 pentacles on them, behind this figure hanging on a brownish pyramid-like wall ... (S)he is standing on one foot while the other barely touches the back of a rather big turtle, A symbol of material existence and natural evolution, and represents longevity*. There is a three quarter moon in the clear sky above, as this is card-#9 and is ruled by the moon*. There is a canal, facing him/her indicating travel, commerce and adventure* This card says that gain, represented by the upward moving steps. is the dominant factor, and where this gain comes from, whether through legacy, adventure, gains from settlement, etc. is not an issue. This is a sure sign that things are moving up and in big leaps, but...one should guard against resting on their laurels, and being overly lazy. Click here to see this card Nine of Pentacles * Navigatorss Tarot of the Mystic Sea- The book

Moonbow*	14 Mar 2004
Luna, I think what you see in the Art card helps you to remember the card and the meaning, so if it's what you see - go with it. You have the book don't you? It describes all the symbols in each card and their meaning, but I think for the Majors the symbol meanings are a bit complicated so I think you are right to put your own meaning to the symbols - you will always remember them that way. This is fast becoming my favourite deck of the moment - I find I am no longer wary of using it, and all through picking cards everyday. I am now finding that the keywords are starting to make sense too. Luna's Art (verification) and Feebies 9 of pentacles (aquisition) fit the cards very well don't they? Since Marie's idea to make up the meaning of the spread from the keywords - I have been finding the keywords more useful. My three card spread for yesterday was: 7 Swords - ambivilence Queen pentacles - persuasion Moon - gratification 7 of Swords: The person in this card is green representing the 7th sephiroth Netzach. It shows a creeping, sneeky person enter a chamber in a church or monastery in order to steal a sword. But he catches his reflection in a mirror and also sees the figure of a person watching him. (sorry can't find a piture of this one) Queen of pentacles: this card was discussed by several of us in previous threads, there's a picture of her here:Queen of Pentacles Moon: So much is going on in this card (as with all the Majors) but what is prominent is that the Moon apart from containing it's crescent also contains a womb with two fetuses (or are they adult?) and a partially open lotus flower. Behind the moon is a huge red owl - bird of the night. The card get's it's message of illusion across without going into all the other symbols. Here's a picture: Moon Moonbow*

BlueLotus	15 Mar 2004
This card says that one can and will be satiated with too much of a good thing. You can see this card here Ten of Cups The two figures in this image are dancing together but not really looking into each others' eyes, which may indicate that they are enjoying the good things in life, but not much each others' company. Pure pleasure will only lead to isolation, aloneness and sadness, represented here by the lone willow tree in the back. They have accomplished much, symbolized by the 8 full cups flying in the sky, but there are also 2 other cups, one of which is empty, bring held by one figure, and the other is deserted, on the ground. The book advises that one should look beyond their pleasures, in order to achieve more meaningful relationships, and stresses the role of family for love and support.

lunakasha	16 Mar 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Moonbow* Luna, I think what you see in the Art card helps you to remember the card and the meaning, so if it's what you see - go with it. You have the book don't you? It describes all the symbols in each card and their meaning, but I think for the Majors the symbol meanings are a bit complicated so I think you are right to put your own meaning to the symbols - you will always remember them that way. Yes, Moonbow*....I agree that the Majors can get very complicated, but they are so fascinating! I do have the companion book, but I have decided that, at least initially, I am going to avoid using the book and try developing my own intuitive definitions for the cards. Not only is it good practice for me (not to rely heavily on books), but in the case of the Navigators deck, I think "simplicity" in my approach will prevent me from getting overwhelmed....in other words, there may be TOO MUCH INFORMATION in the book....for me, right now. I am glad I have it though, and may refer to it when I really *need* to know the meaning behind a specific object or symbol... Quote: This is fast becoming my favourite deck of the moment - I find I am no longer wary of using it, and all through picking cards everyday. YES....I am also using this deck every day, and it really is a wonderful, strange and unique approach to tarot...unlike any deck I can think of. Getting past the "fear" was the first step...now I continue to challenge myself with these images: What are you seeing in this picture? Which figures/objects stand out, and why? Let the pictures tell the story...don't make it more complicated than it needs to be... I am so glad that you started this thread, and sparked my interest in working with this amazing deck.....THANK YOU! :D :) Luna

noby	16 Sep 2004
I notice it's been a while since anyone posted about this deck, I wonder if there are people here still using it and maybe wanting to talk about it? I love this deck. I experienced a pang of uncertainty when I first bought it, because the meanings seemed to really differ from the original Rider-Waite meanings I was in the middle of learning, and what I'd read others say about it seemed to indicate that as well. However, I've found since I've gotten into the deck and have been exploring it more, that none of the meanings differ so wildly from the original Rider-Waite meanings that one can't consider both Julia Turk's thoughts on the card and more traditional ones as well. I've actually found that when the emphasis or meaning of the card differs a little from the traditional meaning, it can make interpreting and thinking about the card a much richer and much more thought-provoking experience. For example, I'm currently thinking about the Nine of Wands card in this deck. Julia Turk's keyword for the card is "Intensity." I find this really builds on a more traditional interpretation of the card while giving enough of a spin on it to give one a different way to look at the card. The traditional interpretations make the card seem more about conflict and stamina in the face of onslaught, while Julia's keyword makes one think of what such qualities could mean outside of the context of conflict. In my case, the card falls on the place indicating the "bond / karmic tie that binds" in a relationship spread I did for a relatively new relationship I'm in. Both of us in the relationship have said that one of the things we like about each other is each other's intensity and ferocious approach to life. Had this card been a traditional Rider-Waite card, I would have looked at it as a sign of conflict, but in the context of Turk's focus and keyword, I see it as representing very well one of the things that holds us together, which is the intensity in each one of our personalities and the intensity with which we are attracted to and love one another. One of the other things I like about this deck are the figures - their androgeny and skin colors ranging from yellow to blue. It makes the deck feel more inclusive and broad without it feeling like the deck was made to be PC for the sake of being PC. The dreamlike quality it adds to the deck makes it feel more archetypal to me, like the figures on it inhabit the world of the subconscious as well as the world of the universal. I read in a review of this deck that it was really good as a tool to get down to the essence of things and identify the particular "energies" going on in a situation, and I agree. The figures on the cards are naked not in terms of clothing, but in terms of their messages, intents, feelings, "energies." I also just find so many of them charming. I drew the Six of Cups in the same spread mentioned above and the way the figures respond to each other in it is just so beautiful. One of the only stumbling blocks I find with this deck is that sometimes the complexity of the Majors can become too much and descend into busy-ness. The book (not the little white book, but the bigger book) that comes with the deck is so chock full of information that it can be mind-boggling. The way I approach this is to read through the information on a particular card, and instead of trying to remember or apply all of it, I just put down the book afterwards and look at the card again and see what of the information I've just read sticks with me, and how it makes me see the card. As overwhelming as Turk's information can be, I really do like having both her book and traditional meanings like those on Joan Bunning's site to mull over. And overall, I love the colors and aesthetic of this deck. I'm just really happy with it and am glad I didn't give in to my initial reservations about it.

darwinia	16 Sep 2004
I bought this last October with the book and find it pretty interesting to work with either in one-card draws or wrting exercises. I paired a snippet of Walt Whitman's poetry with one of these cards quite satisfactorily. I did a reading for myself and a reading for someone else with them, and I pull the odd card from the deck for clarification in other things. I find the cards accurate, intriguing visually, and I always "get" something from them more far-reaching than usual. One thing about the book..I like the poetry but I find some of her new-age discussions silly in the extreme. She has a different way of looking at the Tree of Life associations which is neat--she thinks her own way, but sometimes sounds like she's been ill for years and has a few dead cells floating in the big machine upstairs. I don't respect that, BUT I respect that she is one of the few artists that has the courage and imagination to leave behind the dreaded R-W cookie cutter and think for herself. I prefer complicated and unusual visionaries like this, she at least challenges the reader to think about meaning and archetype. It's a rare manifestation and I think most people who buy this deck give up way too easily because it is so different. So what? Different is challenging, and there's nothing wrong with challenge, that's how you escape convention and limitation.

Moonbow*	17 Sep 2004
Hi noby I love this deck. The art work drew me instantly to it - which is the usual way for attracting me to a deck. But this art is so different out way out there! I just HAD to investigate it further, and I'm glad I did. I got the deck first and realised immediately that I needed the book to help with the symbolism. I found the book a very interesting read and it is one of the few deck companion books that I read from cover to cover and not just as a reference. I too like poetry though so this may be part of what kept me going. I use the deck for study and for readings for myself, but having said that it has been a while since I have used this deck. I am just looking at it now and have picked out the two cards you mention and I see exactly what you mean in your explanations of them. My first frustration with the deck is that I felt I should use all the symbolism and remember her meanings. But I soon realised - thanks to this thread - that it just wasn't working for me that way. I now play games with this deck. Like the one mentioned by Cerulean - with the keywords. That worked out to be very interesting. The way I approach the deck now is to pick out what I want from it .... and the book. There is so much information in the book and following the Julia way was proving too much hard work, but I like decks that don't hand it all to me on a plate. Whether they are Marseilles, RWS or Thoth/Kabbalah based does not bother mean, but if they are too simple I can become lazy and spout the textbook meanings. This is a deck which is excellent for study and for intuitive readings IMO. One of the reasons I like it so much. I am so glad you brought this thread back, it made me get the deck out again and have a little play.

Jewel	21 Sep 2004
I was so pleased to see this thread. I have had this deck for years and promised myself that one day I am going to seriously sit down with it and study it along-side with the Thoth to gain a better understanding of her reasoning for changing up the qabalistic correspondences. The artwork and colors in the deck drew me in immediately, specially since the colors used are all supposed to be connected to the tree of life. I would never part with my copy of this deck either .... there is just something about it that would not let me. Perhaps if I would get on with it and study it I would learn what that something is *LOL*.

noby	29 Sep 2004
One of the things I love about this deck is the keywords. I think they were very thoughtfully picked so that instead of reducing the card's possible meanings, they expand them through the use of words with many interpretations and connotations. I find I can ignore the keyword if it's not helpful, but usually, it is. For example, I recently drew the Seven of Swords as representing my current situation, and I really couldn't figure how I was being particularly sneaky, except for my desire to be a "lone wolf" (a meaning suggested by Joan Bunning) when I knew I needed the love and support of friends. But the Navigators keyword "ambivalence" really captured the essence of my situation, of waffling between possibilities, not knowing what to do with myself, not being able to take on situations head-on.

noby	29 Sep 2004
Another thing is that I absolutely love the angrogynous, multi-colored figures on the card. They allow the cards to feel more open and universal, applying to people of all racial and gender backgrounds. They seem to be more archetypal, pointing more to underlying qualities than specific people located in fixed places in time and space. But yet they also manage to be so human as well. The expressiveness of their faces and bodies is so evocative. The Emperor is confident and self-possessed. The character on the Seven of Swords has that vigilant expression of one who knows one is sneaking around. Three of Pentacles, such an expression of focus and hard wordk. The King of Wands - so cocky, and yet so charismatic and inviting. Ten of Wands - such sadness and weariness. One of the characters (the yellow one) on the Six of Cups has the most contented smile, it's really contagious - I always smile to look at that card. His/her consort looks up at him/her with an expression that could either be intense, soul-melting love, or irritation ("Quit going off into La-La land and pay attention to me dammit! And don't grab me like that!" Hehe...) - and don't we all know how those two feelings can fluctuate in a relationship! And the colors! So evocative, yet also so beautiful and rich. I could gush about this deck for pages...

noby	29 Sep 2004
One last thing... up until I read about alchemy, I wasn't aware of how many alchemical symbols are in this deck. For example, the High Priestess' keyword is "dissolution," which refers to the process in alchemy of immersing the conscious into the subconscious. And then, on the Nine of Swords, a toad presides over the fallen figure. A site discussing animal symbolism in alchemy says: Quote: The Toad was a better symbol of the Putrefaction, the decaying mass slowly pulsating and shifting as gasses were given off, while the substance rotted down to a black mass. This site explains "Putrefaction" a bit more: Quote: Psychologically, nigredo is a process of directing oneself to find self-knowledge. A problem is given full attention and reduced to its core. This is not done so much in an intellectual way, but especially by feeling the emotions. By really going into to it, one causes putrefaction, the decomposition of that in which one had been stuck. The confrontation with the inner reality is often painful, and can lead to depression. But once in the depth of the darkness, with the discovery of the seed of the problem, the seed in the ‘prima materia’, the white light is born (=albedo, whiteness, the next phase). A state of rest arises. Insight into the problem has been gained, it has been worked out emotionally, and knowledge arises on how to handle it in a more positive way and to build a more pure attitude. And that's just the tip of the iceberg... I'm sure if just a cursory glance revealed the above, this deck's got to be crawling with alchemical references and symbols. I like this not only because I like the imagery and symbolism of alchemy, but also because alchemical symbols seem to have been part of the tarot from its very inception.

rainwolf	28 Jan 2005
I LOVE this deck, but i have not had enough time to throughly study it and be completely successful, although i am thinking of dedicating more time. As for complication, i think the minors are fine, but the majors are rather...loaded-for a reason. Since the majors are the suit of spirit and personality, i think it is just that they were made complicated to reflect how humans are complicated beings. This is a deck for understanding something in a very intimate way, they speak so close to the person that they give amazing information. I would not use them for trivial questions, such as those posed by impromptu seekers. We all know the difference in querents, and i would save this deck for the ones that have questions when they come to you. If you are struggling with meanings, and intuiting is limited for you, i would get her book, and highlight all the meanings you can see in the card. The interesting thing for me was all of the things i highlighted i found in her LWB, so it can be used as a cheat sheet since her book is kinda long and doesnt have specific sections for each card. I dont use reversals with this deck, instead i go by dignity completely. Since i am 'getting into' this deck again, i think i am going to do daily 3 card readings (or maybe 1) in the morning to see how it relates. Also if you use a lot of 'past' positions and you understand the situation, they can clarify themselves-hey! you just killed two birds with one stone! I dont know why ppl are giving up so easy with such a potent deck. Just because there is a lot of symbols doesnt mean they dont have anything in common! There is a few common themes with every symbol on each card, so just make up three keywords adn explore the card from there; after a while, im sure you will be able to do anything with it. I feel like im on a soapbox, but anyway i could talk about this for a while, i just think its so....open to preference. Does anyone know why SEA is in all capital letters?! I cannot find the answer, its such a puzzling deck sometimes because of the background!

Moonbow*	29 Jan 2005
Hi rainwolf This is a deck that I will never become weary of. At the moment I am study and working with other decks but I may get this out for a little play today. Yes, the cards are busy but I have found (thanks to Cerulean's suggestion earlier on in this thread) that it is best to take what you want from the scenes, and leave the rest. The book is amazing for pointing out details in the cards and what they mean to the author. I also find the keywords in the deck to be important (something I usually dislike in decks). Earlier on in this thread we were pulling cards and working with the keywords, it was a facinating exercise. I agree that it is definately a deck for the more serious question, and also for personal use. It's one of my top ten decks. One day I will try to understand the Kabala a little more (and of course her system is different) and this will just open up another level of reading with these cards. very interesting deck to my mind.

rainwolf	29 Jan 2005
Oh the kabalah!!!!! That is another problem of understanding in itself!! If i had the drive to understand it, that would be great, but i think the basic understanding to jsut get my by is fine, and i would think astrological understanding would be of greater help with her cards...but id rather focus on tarot than the kabalism behind it all... I made an astounding personal discovery this afternoon! And i have these cards to thank! (ill give you background) I have been at cross roads for higher beliefs, but have always been spiritual since that is something i can feel, but i have thought that no matter what, you in some way have a belief in the universe, either directly or indirectly. When i glanced past an explanation for the star in Turk's book, pg 154 "The sun is born...", I thought about astrology and its applications. Since were going into the age of aquarius (some ppl debate when it is happening) Turk states "We are at present in the aquarian age, an androgenous sign." I think about all of the issues at present are rising up, basically many involving universal rights. Now i know many are at odds about astrology, but i think that there is something deeper, involving synchrocity, which JUST so happens to involve the planets-and the planets may act as signposts and directions into what the universe may have in store. Thus i came to the conclusion that maybe all religions have a basis in the universe, and my belief in it may be a personal yet profound matter. Anyway, thats just my two cents on how the NotMS has directly influenced me and made me think deeper (thus giving me a temporary headache) into tarot and life. I hope others have had deeper influences from the cards as well!! Also, my quotation at the bottom does not go against religion, just that a majority of ppl have their religion as a crutch/manipulative authority (pg 158 LOL) instead of a way of deeper understanding. lunakasha wrote: My understanding is that this is not an easy deck to work with and not ideal for beginners...but that isn't going to deter me! If i had started reading with this deck, i think i would be INCREADIBLY confused. Esp since i was not intuitive at all back then. It prolly would have deterred me from even reading at all, unless i got a simple deck after.

The Navigators Tarot of the Mystic Sea thread was originally posted on 20 Nov 2003 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.