Gothic Tarot of Vampires - my view

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 01 Dec 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Umbrae	01 Dec 2003
Before I discuss the Gothic Tarot of Vampires, I would like to examine the Vampire mythos. If you have not read “Dracula” for a while you owe it to yourself to go back and re-read it. It’s racy, erotic, and considering Bram Stoker published it in 1897, it gives a different light to the story. It reeked of the seductive, and the sensual. It was a far different story than the 1931 Bela Legosi classic, which lacked the sexuality that the original story contained. However “Dracula” was neither the first nor the finest vampire movie. In 1922, F.W. Murnau directed “Nosferatu, A Symphony of Horror” with Max Shreck as Count Orlock. It is considered by some to be perhaps the finest Vampire movie ever. Many view the vampire as a Bela Legosi, or Christopher Lee – or now – Gary Oldman. But popular culture has lost the essence of the vampire. In the 1978 homage/remake of Murnau’s classic by Werner Herzog – Klaus Kinski as the title character Nosferatu utters the line (paraphrased and translated poorly), “Can you imagine what it’s like to live for a thousand years, and never feel…love.” And that’s an important and overlooked portion of the vampire mythos. In our western Judeo-Christian culture, we have been raised (whether we admit it or not) that God created man in his own image. As a culture, we shun those who are not god-like. We used to lock them up, institutionalize them, and in some cases murder them. The popularity of monsters in fiction, be they werewolves or ghosts, is that they are not God-Like as we are. They are not human. We are allowed to hate them, and in ways envy them without guilt. But the Vampire is also a monster; a former human, now with the fur inside. We also believe that we were given ‘dominion over the birds and beasts’…but the Vampire has moved us down the food chain. Now we are food. And in the role of food, Vampires make a mockery of love, and sex. They can make us want to be food, or take us by force. We no longer rule the food chain. We are prey. I credit Ann Rice with bringing a sex, sexuality, and sensuality back into the Vampire mythos. However…to a creature dammed to an eternity in solitude, without knowing an embrace that comes with love… To only know hunger – and dark – and the grave… The Vampire mythos is not cute. I doubt if there will ever be a Vampire Barbie. I feel that the mythos is very misunderstood. Fiona Webster, in discussing the Stephen King book ‘Salem’s Lot’ said; “…King said in 1983, "In 'Salem's Lot’, the thing that really scared me was not vampires, but the town in the daytime, the town that was empty, knowing that there were things in closets, that there were people tucked under beds, under the concrete pilings of all those trailers. And all the time I was writing that, the Watergate hearings were pouring out of the TV; Howard Baker kept asking, 'What I want to know is, what did you know and when did you know it?' That line haunts me; it stays in my mind. During that time I was thinking about secrets, things that have been hidden and were being dragged out into the light”.” In Mantia Vol. 8, February 1993, in an article about an unrelated deck we find the line; “Why are we seeking ‘The Light’, is the question that needs to be answered. Existence is dualistic. Good and evil balances each other” In “Bruce Almighty,” God and Bruce are discussing some of the ‘work’ that Bruce had done. There is a wonderful line that goes, “Triumph is born out of struggle. Faith is the alchemist. If you want to paint pictures like this, you have to use some dark colours.” I love the Gothic Tarot of the Vampires. It’s dark and modern. This deck is not for everybody; it contains the dark colours. I also love the fact that the majors and court cards are not labeled. They are identified numerically. If you are a strict RWS follower, you may find it difficult to rectify the meanings. When I first took a look at this deck and thought about what the cards mean to me, based on experience and journaling, I found I had to stop and think about each card; only to find that the complexity of the graphics lead me to what I already knew for myself. I’d like to discuss some of the more disturbing cards. The II card (High Priestess) shows a woman seated in a wing-back chair. Blood runs from her mouth her wrists are slit and bleeding. On the table in front of her is the ghost-shape of a knife and two glasses that appear to be blood smeared. However her expression does not tell of self-mutilation or suicide. It’s more of a composed and reflective façade that she presents, along with the half-smile. Is she a vampire or is she the prey? Where does she lie in the food chain? Or perhaps the better question would be…she sits passive, waiting for what will happen, and leans forward slightly in anticipation…of what? This is a picture of active passivity – the opposite of the magician. The book tells us of Temptation, invitation, the offer of immortality and knowledge… I often upset folks when I discuss the High Priestess and sex in the same breath – here it is obvious yet subtle – few will notice there are two glasses and both have been drunk from. Where is the second person? Is it us? Death is the picture used on the card backs. When I first saw it I thought of “the kiss of death.” The LWB says, ‘the embrace’. Oh my… Her hair is splayed out. Blood appears around her lips. Her eyes are lifeless…or are they. Blood is around his mouth – and there is a stream of blood/life-force moving from him to her. I get the impression that her days as a human have come to an end…she is about to become, a Vampire…death, rebirth, and transformation. A simple drawing that evokes an eerie passion. There are a few cards that display the mingling of blood. Back in the days when Native Americans were more prevalent, there was a custom of bonding with blood. I believe that the Celts may have had a similar practice. Bonding with blood is a tie stronger than family. Here we see it displayed with the casualness of a Vampire (2 of Cups). We must think now…if we were Vampires, what would our world look like? If we were Vampires our world might look like the Four or Wands. Normally the Four of Wands might mean something like, ‘Rejoice (ment). Success. A welcoming home and the ensuing happiness; after the struggle and toil.’ Here we see a man seated at home. He appears to have committed suicide. A figure appearing as our Vampire protagonist (throughout the deck) kneels in front of him in obvious sorrow. Remember, a Vampire cannot die by slitting their writs…the human gets to ‘go home’. The LWB says of this card, “Abandonment, return home…” Get it? On of my favourite images is the 9 of Wands, which shows a young man kissing an older woman. Her face tells us she has passed on. The picture next to the bed tells us this is a couple. She aged, he did not. She has left him. The LWB tells us, “Losing what is loved, giving importance to things.” Wow – This ain’t no RWS – this is heady stuff! The Two of Swords shows a view of a man and woman leaping from a high window. The LWB states, “Test of trust, unity during adversity, taking a chance.” Well now that’s what a 2 of Swords is supposed to be about! Oh yeah – the LWB is in four languages, short and to the point, allowing each reader to piece together the pieces of the Vampire metaphor in their own vision. From the book, “This Tarot deck is necessarily somber, at times gloomy, and sometimes violent. The vampire theme, unless reduced to a superficial stereotype of dress first requires confrontation with blood as well as the fury and relentlessness of a predator, with death and horror.” This is not a deck for everybody. But it’s an important deck. And you should look within yourself to see if you should own it. Most likely, you should. The Six of Swords shows a small girl reaching out and grasping a woman’s hand. The girl is about to lead the woman down a walkway of coals…her posture tells the woman (and us), “Come on, you can do it…” Umbrae Draco Vampyre Illuminati 30º

firemaiden	01 Dec 2003
Delicious! I loved reading this. (I'm never much one for vampires, but you write so well... you've gotten me interested.)

Dark_angel	01 Dec 2003
I love Vampyres, Eastern European culture, Gothic horror. Did you know that the vampyre myths have many of their roots in Eastern Europe (hence the association with Transylania), in the inbreeding of the aristocratic families. These families had huge, gothic castles, and because there was a lot of inbreeding, recessive genetic diseases such as haemophilia and porphyria were more common than they were elsewhere (if you combine these conditions, you get an individual whose blood doesn't clot properly, and who cannot go out in sunlight, has long, curved nails and pale skin). The prescribed treatment for these diseases in those times was to drink blood, especially human blood, and some families would kill peasants so that the affected individual could drink their blood. The psychological burden of this would be immense - they were going against accepted laws of society and of their religion - and contribute to their isolation and fear of religioius icons and books. The whole thing is truly fascinating. In principle, I think this deck is an excellent concept, and there are some cards that I really like. Also, the artwork is brilliant. I'd like to stress that I do think these things. However, I also think that there is a flip side to it, one that could cause people to harm themselves. There are quite a few images displaying self-harm, even glamourising it in some (I'm sure this isn't the actual meaning, it's just how it came across to me), and this could be triggering for people who have done or do self-harm. It is for this reason, my own protection, that I am not intending to use this deck myself. However, I'm sure other people will not have this problem.

Emily	01 Dec 2003
Hi Umbrae, That was a fascinating post, I've looked at the Gothic Tarot of Vampires and decided it wasn't for me, but the way you've explained some of the cards makes me want to go and have another closer look at it. Thanks :)

Astraea	01 Dec 2003
Yes, Umbrae, I agree with you. I didn't care for some of the scanned cards I'd seen on-line, but as a fan of vampire themes I decided to go ahead and purchase the deck; to my pleasant surprise, I found that it is deeply meaningful, well done and carefully thought-out. The key is to follow the thread of the deck from card-to-card, rather than seeing the images separately and thus not being able to gain a coherent sense of them. I admire and respect this deck more each time I look at it.

Alissa	01 Dec 2003
I have this thing about vampires.... (And if you think *I* have a thing for vampires, you should talk to my sister ... sagitarian. Ho boy....) I loved this post. Umbrae, you've put a lot of thought into the mythos, I can tell. Your posts on the Vargo deck, and now this deck, show a command of the subject that's impressive. Don't stop writing, please! :) Hell ... I just bought the Vargo. Now, I may have to add another deck to my Christmas wish list. (Anyone wanna buy me a deck? ;) ) My take on Stoker's "Dracula" is this ... if you re-read this novel with your "Freudian ear" open, it will amaze you ... especially the scene where Lucy the Vampire is getting killed. The "quivering red lips" of the wound inflected upon her, the stake "pounding mercilessly" until she succumbs her preternatural drive to the reality of this world, embodied in a wooden wand ... I mean ... "stake" ;). Also, it is interesting that in Stoker's version, Lucy (the woman of questionable character) is vampirized, but Mina (virginal paragon of Jonathan Harker's, the idealized, Victorian woman) only gets half-vamped ... and escapes the death penalty, but bears a mark (mark of Cain? the Scarlet A?) on her forehead for the rest of her life, detailing her "shame". How humans deal with vampires is interesting to me ... we either fall in love with them, kill them, or both. I will forgo a discussion on the psychology of submission, as I'm not sure it's appropriate on our forums (and how often do I ever say something like that on AT? eh??). However, submission to a force higher than human willpower alone is another *significant* aspect of vampires, sexuality, and the ongoing popularity of the vampire mythos. ... Wouldn't it be *interesting* to write a vampire novel using the deck as a means of storytelling, not just for divination purposes only? You could use the deck to help with plot points, if you get stuck ... draw a card and see what happens next. Just something I've been thinking about too while reading these vampy posts. ;) But then, I just love a good vampire story, so of *course* I would think of that.

Maan	01 Dec 2003
Even more eagerly awaiting the mail man!!!

WolfyJames	01 Dec 2003
My best friend and I have always been fascinated by vampires, we started a few novels together (we were teens then), and we never finished them, unfortunatly. One of them was very funny but she lost the text somewhere while moving.:( We were supposed to start something last year about vampires and werewolves but she moved (again) to another city. Maybe I should just grab her and lock her up in a dungeon or something and force her to write.;) I read two times Dracula by Stoker, and I admit that I've never noticed these details and never seen anything remotly erotic. I just don't think that finding a strange man in my bed bitting me, or being stabbed by a stake, are erotic; I'm not masochist, I'm sadistic, I think that bitting or stabbing someone must be erotic, not the other way around. As I said earlier, I never notice these details, which is usually the reason why I ask other people's thoughts on books and movies (and reviews on websites), I always discover, through them, lots of stuff. That is even the reason why I started the study group on The Gothic Tarot by Vargo, because I knew I would have difficulties grasping the deck (that I love dearly) and I trusted other people would see through it, which you do, Umbrae, thankfully (thank you!). Next time I read Dracula, I'll try to see the "hidden" sexuality. I've seen both Nosferatu, original and remake, and it is the movie that has terrified me the most, among all the horror movies I've seen. I just shiver at the thought of it. I also shiver each time I see The High Priest and The Hermit on The Gothic Tarot by Vargo, they both represent Nosferatu. Salem's Lot is one of my favorite vampire novels, and it's very hard to miss the erotic details in that one. My friend and I have read the Anne Rice books too. Even though Lestat in there is happy as a vampire, he's still depressed and lonely, longing for closiness, looking for a companion. Lestat can hear people thinking and find closure, but once he chooses a companion, the telepathic link is broken and the closure is no more. Lestat can never get what he's longing for, he's lonely for eternity, and it's very hard for him. He lost his mother (who went away), Nicolas (who lost his sanity and life), Armand (who is a jerk) and Louis and Claudia (who betrayed him). I don't know, vampires can be envied but at the same time it sounds like such a burden. It's a damnation. You think that by becoming a vampire, you're going to achieve some fantasy, and once you're one of them, you discover that by giving in, you just lost it all. All the people you love are going to die, one after the other. You probably discover that, for security reasons, you can't get attached to anyone, and can never stay too long at the same place. And after going through losing the people you loved, you won't want to get attached emotionnaly to anyone after that anyway. At first, it sounds like travelling, but after a few centuries of moving from one place to another, it's probably more of a burden than something else; you have to restart your life every decade. You also have to adapt to evolution. Going from medieveal times to the 21st century must be very difficult for someone, is the mind capable of such a thing? And being a vampire is like being a junkie, your entire life revolve aroung getting your fix. I don't know exactly how I sound but, while youger I was fascinated by youth and immortality, now at my age, I understand better the cost of such a fantasy. I've taken a look at the scans of The Gothic Tarot Of Vampires, and personaly, I think its just too modern for me (I'm not fond of modern stuff), and too scary. To me, vampires are supposed to attract you and repulse you at the same time, the vampires in this deck just repulse me, same with The Vampire Tarot. The Gothic Tarot by Vargo though has that attraction-repulsion effect on me, and it has a romantic non-modern atmosphere too. I've really liked your interpretations of the cards though, and made me think twice about the scanned cards.

Requiella	01 Dec 2003
Umbrae, Thanks for your very thoughtful analysis. I've always had an attraction to the vampire mythos, and you've definitely sparked my interest in this deck!

Cerulean	01 Dec 2003
Well, I do agree there are many powerful ideas. I do believe, as people have said, it is what people bring to the table. that may influence certain takes on their chosen tarot. The concepts though, that I align with and bring to Riccardo Minetti's concepts and the art by Emillano Mammucari had little to do with the Anglo and European vampire literature. So I do thank you for writing out as well as you did from a literary perspective. The movies that I saw that were rather bad, still disturbing--but held messages to me in a kind of Film Noir genre in the past 15 years included: From Hell The Raven Emillano Mammucari actually did a scene from a graphic novel titled From Hell. I saw a little of his other work online and this tarot aligns with what I've seen of his style. I heisitated to say this, but there were some works I favor by a poets and writers surviving catastrophes--I mean survival from atomic bombs or an epidemic that decimated a city, for instance-- that offer also a glimmer of quiet, sometimes even what we would call relief from what could be unrelenting suffering. Somehow I see this mood of quiet in some of the card scenes. I also saw an allegorical connection that said to me--"If all existance is suffering, and yet, they choose to exist..." But again, I am bringing my own shadows into my reaction and handling my ideas with poetry work...and it sounds like from what you've written, I will be quite enriched with looking at the titles suggested. Thanks again. Mari H. P.S. Blood flow or mix of red, for instance, with white, as a life force, seems represented in the Chinese, Japanese and I think the Shinto (characteristically Japanese) folklore. You mentioned Native American, so I wanted to add this small note.

Dark_angel	02 Dec 2003
Mari_, do you mean The Crow, starring Brandon Lee? I love that film, and it's so beautiful, like the greatest and saddest love story ever, without being overly romantic, and still contains so much passion and yet emptiness. It is as though he is truly dead inside, except for his love for his fiancee, which is so pure that it transcends even death, before becoming corrupted by vengeance, before his ultimate redemption and reward in a final death and an afterlife with her. You've got me started now... I'll have to watch it again when I get home.

Cerulean	02 Dec 2003
Here I mixed up the Raven of nevermore (Poe) with Brandon Lee's The Crow! Thanks for the correction. I probably saw the stark treatment of certain dream sequences in other films, but I particularly remember a kind of filter placed on the more horrendous memories. Best, Mari H.

Dark_angel	02 Dec 2003
There are a lot of similarities between the poem and the film; I love almost everything gothic and romantic (not soppy romantic, though I don't think either of those fall into the soppy category, lol. :) ). And I did have to go and watch it again after you mentioned it!

Cerulean	08 Dec 2003
http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/gothic-vampires/review.html

full deck	09 Dec 2003
I liked Umbrae's essay on the vampire genre but, while I can appreciate the gothic genre of Bram Stoker and can watch a violent flick like Blade, I can not appreciate its application to Tarot at all. I would not want anyone reading for me, using such a deck simply because it is not a very productive or positive sign, psychologically speaking. To me, its like having a Hitler Tarot deck or Stalin Tarot deck. While such people can be described using Tarot, it is repulsive to most people to define a whole deck within that context. A person can certainly do such but just don't expect *everyone* to heap praise upon such. I've also seen bloodshed and violence up close and personal -- enough not to want to mythologize about blood-letting. I guess it's more fun when one hasn't seen that kind of thing.

EarthAngel2911	09 Dec 2003
I wouldn't call this deck fun, by any stretch of the imagination, and I would never use it to read for anyone other than myself. I have been using this deck, however, for shadow work, and it's very powerful! I really didn't think I would like Gothic Vampires when I ordered it, but of course I had to have a new Lo Scarabeo release! :) However, after I got over the shock of the bloody pictures and really looked at the cards, I realized the value in this deck. Personally, I currently use it for meditation and helping myself to see the alternate side to a situation. I have never used more than two cards at one time; the images may prove to be too overwhelming as each card has so much to say. Again, I wouldn't use this deck for anyone else, but for me it's proving to be invaluable! Blessings, Karen

RiccardoLS	09 Dec 2003
The Vampire deck is not a deck for avery day. Why should one choose willingly the Vampire symbol as a mirror for itself, anyway? But I feel that sometimes there is the need to look at some part of us... and it is not "safe" to approach them raw. The Vampyre myth... is a frame... and "interface" I suppose many can handle. Talking about Vampires creates a security net for the times you have to process on some directions... if or should I say when. I also love the Vampire charachter by itslef. Imagine a person who is going to live forever and may not have any worry for "money", "house", "job"... and similar things. He is left with his life... and the only thing that could give him a meaning is on the Spiritual path. And I like this... The Vampire has no excuse and he is exactly the way he acts... (and act the way he is). It's a powerful symbol, if one is confortable with the graphics... Best, Riccardo

Myrrha	09 Dec 2003
Quote: Originally posted by RiccardoLS He is left with his life... and the only thing that could give him a meaning is on the Spiritual path. That is very interesting. I have not seen this idea expressed in the cards from the deck that I've seen though. Am I missing something? -Myrrha

Kiama	09 Dec 2003
One question that was raised in my mind whilst reading this very interesting (and informative) thread, was... Do we need a Vampire Tarot in order to look at the 'dark side' or 'shadow side' of our selves, as has been suggested by a couple of posts? Does the traditional Tarot deck provide for the dark side enough or not? I would hasten to say yes, but I'll leave the question open all the same. Kiama

RiccardoLS	09 Dec 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Myrrha That is very interesting. I have not seen this idea expressed in the cards from the deck that I've seen though. Am I missing something? What cards have you seen? At least in my intention that is the core of the deck... and all cards should go in that direction. :( Quote: Originally posted by Kiama [b] Do we need a Vampire Tarot in order to look at the 'dark side' or 'shadow side' of our selves, as has been suggested by a couple of posts?B] I have been asking myself the same question the other way round. What could be the use of a Vampire themed Tarot? I gave myself two possible answers: - a pretty deck, with a romantic theme and nothing more (pretty deck: pretty thing) - a deck like the one I tried to create. I didn't want the Vampire deck to be only a dark side explorer. I think the Vampire methaphore may be very effective to build a psychological mirror... safety net... frame... for that use. Beyond the "dark side explorer"... I think I consider existence a mix of dark and light... I see myself in that way... as I see that way the way I act and my motivations. The Vampire is full of this contractiction and I end up very well inside that symbol. Again I decided not to merge the Vampire deck with a conventional RWS structure... but rather to alter that structure to a different interpetation. In order to get the best from the deck one should approach the cards like a storytelling deck. Each is a snapshot of a bigger story and they are all linked (not as a comic strip could be, of course). You could consider the deck like a Musical Video (in the way the tale unfold) about the story of the Vampire... its journey of the hero. He is innocent... young... got tempted, corrupted, gains power... begin to understand his spiritual longing... he seek wisdom... he became whole again... in a mature way. So I think this deck is better suited to meditative, self exploring, styles. Not necessarily on the dark side. Just... a dark side there is, just as the light side. best, R.

Cerulean	09 Dec 2003
And it is rather unusual for this deck. The character with the metal necklace ('hero' or main character) in each scene varies from being a man or a woman. Now I noticed that in many of the pictures of the vampire hero or main character looking in a mirror, it is the woman character. I'm not being biased, and I will count if necessary--the woman seeing other things in the glass is effective to me. The womanly figure does walk alone and is depicted passing by many other human interaction scenes. In fact some of the pictures of sihouettes or side/shadow or back views can have an ambiguous gender-so you could think of it as a male or female figure. I believe in most cases, the main figure has dark and long hair, although there are some characters have short, fair-hair. The male figure does also appear in many scenes, sometimes reflective as well--although I haven't seen him looking in a mirror, darkly, at himself. ------------------------------------------ Actually in terms of the question whether the metaphor of the vampire was necessary for such a deck, it is a rather effective deck for me for it to be a humanlike character and as a launching point for reflecting character, shadow, metaphors of light and dark...well, it seems to have worked decently for the three readings for others that I've done. But I was attracted to the treatment of the art and theme together and used in combination with personal writing, something I like doing. But I don't think I'm using the deck in the same way or treating the pictures like most people seem to be. If it had not had a balance of human interaction and if it lacked the cinematic or vivid color against shadows, I don't think I would have been attracted to it. For me, I needed something different and so this deck has stuck with me for the past three weeks... I'm thinking of how to respond better...still working with it... Thanks for the mental food for thoughts! Mari H.

Myrrha	09 Dec 2003
Quote: Originally posted by RiccardoLS What cards have you seen? At least in my intention that is the core of the deck... and all cards should go in that direction. :( Hi Riccardo, Well maybe I am just dense, or am getting distracted by the blood. I have seen the samples at Alidastore and at Tarotgarden. From your post it sounds like you really have to see the whole deck in sequence, like a story, to see this side of it. --Myrrha

Logiatrix	10 Dec 2003
I'm getting this deck tomorrow! Look out Border's, here I come... It's all Mari's fault! :D

tao51	02 Jul 2004
This is not a deck for everyone. I think the cards speak more of a dramatic view of the tarot. The Fool card displays two seemingly innocent children with vampire shadows. I prefer to use this deck when reading a question which has a wide range of variables involved. The darker feel sometimes shows a part of a question which has not been considered. --Tao

The Gothic Tarot of Vampires - my view thread was originally posted on 01 Dec 2003 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.