Too Many Deck Themes ?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 29 Dec 2003, and now archived in the Forum Library.

cirom	29 Dec 2003
After being involved in producing my Gilded Tarot deck this year, I'm hooked, and even pondered working on a new one some years into the future. But I must also admit to having been initially suprised at the abundance of decks already available, and especially to the multitude of themed, and novelty decks. My question to you all, is this a good or bad thing? I'm sure some will argue that this variety represents how the Tarot is evolving to reflect and embrace themes and trends of todays society, e.g. Rock and Roll Tarot, Star Wars Tarot etc etc. rather than being "limited" by its earlier roots. It also reflects of course the ability and relative technical ease for the average person to have their personal spin on the Tarot shared by others, i.e. using computers, printing their own decks, compared to the smaller number of artists of old. However I wonder if this has a flip side, namely of watering down and diluting the "seriousness" for want of better description, of the Tarot and how in turn its perceived by others. If I could make the anology of a Rock and Roll, or Star Wars Bible. By the way I mean no disrespect to the decks I've mentioned. I chose them merely as examples, and I also don't have a personal opinion on my own question yet, but I am interested in yours.

Jewel-ry	29 Dec 2003
Hi cirom, In my opinion, many of these other decks are beautiful, they have their place and can be worked with. Indeed, I have many myself which I do use on a regular basis. However, at the end of the day, I come back to the faithfuls, the older, tried and tested decks. The others I tend to collect for art sake, and because the artwork can lend a different perspective to the meaning of the cards. To answer your question, I think they do have their place but may not always stand the test of time. J :)

Astraea	29 Dec 2003
When I first started collecting, the profusion of theme decks both delighted and frustrated me, for artistic and financial reasons (respectively). As time goes by, I find that I am becoming much pickier about the decks I buy, because so many of them seem to reflect only rank commercialism. I agree with Jewel-ry that theme decks have their places, and many are nice to collect because of their artwork, but in terms of reading most of them quickly pass into oblivion for me. Personal exceptions include decks which are nicely drawn and based on strong archetypal motifs (such as vampires, angels, alchemical and Celtic themes), and those which address contemporary cultural and social issues/needs (the Cosmic Tribe, Ancestral Path, Lee's forthcoming Gay Tarot, etc.).

firestorm	29 Dec 2003
I've pondered this question more than once after viewing various decks that don't seem to bring much to the table other than to put yet another theme on the RW symbolism and to make a buck. For me, there is Rider-Waite, Thoth, Marseille, the ancient Italian and New Age decks (ok, maybe one or two more, I may have forgotten) and everything else falls into one of those categories. I don't have a problem with theme decks in general, but I do believe that they can be too much of a good thing. Some are incredibly well done and worth having; others are marginal and don't really offer anything different. The problem arises when we are too invested in "having" decks rather than "knowing" our decks. I wish I had spent more time in the past learning more about the handful of decks that really mean something to me than checking out which deck I can buy next. If I had, I'd be a better reader. I still say we need a 2 cents icon.....:D

Jewel-ry	29 Dec 2003
Quote: Originally posted by firestorm The problem arises when we are too invested in "having" decks rather than "knowing" our decks. I wish I had spent more time in the past learning more about the handful of decks that really mean something to me than checking out which deck I can buy next. If I had, I'd be a better reader. I still say we need a 2 cents icon.....:D Absolutely spot on firestorm. I am just beginning to moderate my hoarding. Yes, I had two decks for xmas but I am pleased that in fact my wishlist (which was compiled a while back) only had four on it when I got them. I am now much more restrained in my buying and I'm happy with what I have. I already have more than enough to be going on with. Furthermore, as stated in my previous post, I always come back to the faithfuls. J :)

Indigo Rose	29 Dec 2003
I think theme decks are mostly a form of art and for collectors. I agree with previous statements in this thread and that many just fall by the wayside in terms of being used for readings. Personally, when I see certain decks I am turned off. I see them as cheap and simply a vehicle for somebody to make money. Of course, this is not new. Commercialism/materialism is a driving force in our world, so it comes as no surprise that Tarot would be exploited for that purpose. The good that can come from the Tarot deck explosion and subsequent popularity is more widespread acceptance and awareness, but the down side is seeing Tarot become just another "fad".

Strange2	29 Dec 2003
As Indigo Rose says, themed decks could raise awareness about Tarot in general to someone who initially only has interest in the specific theme, particulary if the creator of that themed deck has provided a "bridge" (via the LWB or other supplementary material) between the themed images and the more traditional Tarot images. However, purely using a theme to produce a deck of cards that has little relationship to Tarot tends to make the deck a curious collectible at best. Although these types of decks may tarnish the "seriousness" of Tarot, they are probably reaching their target audience nonetheless, and again may spark an interest in the next "real" Tarot deck that person may come across. Though I have acquired several themed decks (several Egyptian oriented decks, HP Lovecraft, Dante, Rock Art), I do not use them regularly and tend to work with the more traditional decks (TdM, Thoth, Spirit). I do feel that experimentation and creativity in developing new Tarot decks is wonderful and necessary, and keeps the art and science of Tarot evolving and endlessly entrancing!

HudsonGray	29 Dec 2003
Also, too, the people who just CAN'T connect with a Rider Waite, and find the unillustrated pip decks impossible, need to look through other decks to find one that speaks to them. Theme deck or not, if it gets someone to click with tarot, or even gets them to pick up a deck for the first time, something has been accomplished. We need variety. We need the price ranges. We need the art decks & the basic simplistic ones. We need the antique, and the utterly new. It'll always be up to the individual as to whether they move forward with their learning on tarot or not, but variety is a must.

WolfSpirit	29 Dec 2003
I would say some theme decks are very well done by someone who knows the meaning of the cards - or has developed his/her own interpretation - while others are just a copy of another deck with only superficial connection to tarot. Still, some people read well with these superficial decks (if you can read with one deck, you can read with every deck, some would say). And I am always curious about decks with funny themes like gummi bears or recipes or star wars...but this does not mean I want to buy them all, so at least for me they are not a commercial success :D Do they dilute the seriousness of tarot ? Well they might if noone pays attention to the serious decks anymore... But although there are many many bad books, there are also still good classic and new books - so maybe we should not worry about that and enjoy them if we want to (and ignore them if we don't like them) ?

jog1118	29 Dec 2003
...the existence of contemporary decks creates a balance with the classic decks - like yin and yang... i've learned tarot throught the contemporary decks, a tarot nova - some would even say that its only a novelty deck, and progressed on to the thoth deck... out of my 5 decks i have 4 contemporary decks which somehow added to my knowledge of interpreting the cards...and i have the thoth which i mainly use for readings... ...yes, everything tarot is good (or has some good to it)... :smoker:

jmd	29 Dec 2003
When I reflect on the wonderful variety of decks with which Brian Williams has been involved, I have to admit that each brings its wonderful gifts, and that each has its shortcomings... but yet the Tarot world is enriched by his many contributions. Are there too many deck themes? No. In many ways, to encourage each to produce, or see throught the eyes of another, how a theme may echoe Tarot is wonderful... though a few decks seem to miss the mark (such as the Lord of the Rings one). The 'seriousness' of the Tarot cannot, in my view, be watered down by playfulness. It may, in my opinion, be far more 'watered' down by assumed 'rectification'...

Le_Corsair	29 Dec 2003
It doesn't do to ignore the fact that tarot card publishers are in the business to make a profit, not to provide any sort of spiritual enlightenment; the only enlightening that goes on is in the customer's wallet or bank account. :D The reason that there are so many decks of dubious practicality is that they are being marketed to as wide an audience as possible, and not just to tarot fanatics. Thus you get the Lord of the Rings Tarot and other similar items. Bob :THERM

Moonbow*	30 Dec 2003
To me there are two types of themed decks. The ones that tell a story (LOTR has already been mentioned but also decks like Legend - The Arthurian for example) and then there are the themes which don't tell a story but have a theme running through them e.g. Tarot of Prague, Ancestral Path. I find, that with decks that tell a story the Tarot side of the meaning can get lost in the story. Don't get me wrong - some of these are done very well and I believe Legend - Arthurian is one, but I find myself too wrapped up in the strory to give the reading enough accuracy. The others with a theme (as the ones mentioned above) I'm OK with. Tarot Prague does keep to the meanings of the tarot (RW-ish) but with the city to emphasise the meaning. Many of the story themed decks are great for part of a collection and/or if the subject is of interest. I just don't like the story to dominate the Tarot too much. Moonbow*

Kiama	30 Dec 2003
I'm a huge fan of themed decks... As long as they 'bring something to the table', as has been mentioned earlier. For instance, I love the Legend: Arthurian Tarot, because it adds to my insight of each card, simply by applying the Tarot archetypes to the Arthurian Legends. Many Celtic decks do this aswell, just like to William Blake Tarot did, and even the Star Wars Tarot. But I think there is a difference in a deck adding insights to one's Tarot knowledge, and being able to read with a deck. For instance, I doubt I could ever read with the Star Wars Tarot, because it doesn't have any symbols or meaning in the images: it is good because it applies the Tarot archetypes to the Star Wars universe, and thereby adds a new 'take' on some of the cards. This reminds me of the Tarot of New Vision: the deck that turns the RWS 180 degrees, so we see it back-to-front. I would never use the deck for readings, because it just doesn't have that depth like the RWS has, but as an accompaniment to other decks (such as the RWS), I believe one can gain some new insights into the cards. I also think there is a difference between the themed decks that 'bring something to the table' and those that are just pretty pictures based on a theme: decks that don't have any meaning in them, have not applied any archetypes, etc to the cards, and are just pretty pictures based loosely on the surface images of the Tarot deck, not on the meanings. A deck like this is, from my personal opinion, the Dragon Tarot and Bosch Tarot: they're just pretty pictures with dragons or Bosch-like artwork in, that in most cases look at bit like the RWS cards, though they do not add any new insights. Quite frankly, if they're just going to copy and not add anything new, there are much better decks to read with. Overall though, if a themed deck such as the Legend Arthurian, manages to convey the Tarot card meanings through both image and concept (eg- Taliesin is the Hierophant, what does this mean?) then I think it can be of great use to anybody, be they beginners or more advanced readers: for beginners, Tarot can be made easier to grasp, because they don't just have a bunch of pretty-looking cards in front of them to try and interpret: they also have stories associated with the cards that they can refer to, and many people find that they can see meaning in stories alot easier than in pictures. For more advanced readers, such a deck may be a good reading deck, aswell as something that makes them think about new concepts associated with each card. Personally, I don't collect decks just for their artwork or because they look pretty, so any themed deck I buy needs to be deep. Kiama

EarthAngel2911	30 Dec 2003
I guess it depends on how you use the Tarot. I enjoy many theme decks, but I don't often use them for reading. I have my set group of decks that I'll read with for people, but when it comes to my own personal meditations, I use many of the theme decks I have. One of my beliefs about tarot, especially when we use it for self-discovery, is that sometimes it really doesn't matter what the artist wanted the card to mean, it matters what the querent sees in the card. Therein lies the doorway to their subconscious. So, in cases like that, whether it's a theme deck or not, different decks evoke different responses for different people. So IMO, the more choices the better! :D (Of course, there's my compulsive buying disease coming out...) Blessings, Karen

MoreMagic	30 Dec 2003
I think a Tarot deck, as an artistic construct, will always draw creative people who want that particular challenge, and the results can be anywhere from great art to commercial dreck, and from useful spiritual tool to wastepaper. In some ways, I think it's analagous to music - some people respond to Beethoven, some to Cole Porter or Elvis.

lark	30 Dec 2003
I've been wanting to contibute to this thread. But you've gotten so many great insights already there isn't much I can add. I went back and read your post. If you do another deck you seem to be weighing the merits of doing a theme deck as opposed to a traditional deck. I think there is always a big demand for decks that are done in a traditional and beautiful way. If you look over in the wish list thread two of the decks that appear on alot of the wish lists are: The Gilded - yours The Golden - Kat Blacks Everyone can't wait for there release. I can't speak for anyone else but my excitement is because after viewing them on line I know they are deck I will use. That for me is becoming a more important issue than collecting. Don't get me wrong...I love collecting decks! But if the deck will become a well loved useable deck that is an extra bonus for me. As far as theme decks go, I am waiting with bated breath for the Jane Austen Tarot. This deck will certainly not be for everyone. And it won't be a big seller. Why am I so happy Diane Wilkes is doing this deck. Simply because I love Jane Austen. And it's gratifying to have something you feel pasionate about acknowledged in the form of tarot (another big passion.) It's a double wammy of happiness! Well, those are my thoughts. And I look forward to your next deck. I'm sure no matter what you decide it will be well thought out and beautiful. The Gilded tarot certainly proves that. lark

Shade	01 Jan 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Le_Corsair It doesn't do to ignore the fact that tarot card publishers are in the business to make a profit, not to provide any sort of spiritual enlightenment; the only enlightening that goes on is in the customer's wallet or bank account. :THERM Sometimes people make tarot marketers/publishers/distributors sound like they are his great evil Illuminati out to screw us. To me it sounds a little bit like saying "Those damned carpenters! Theyt aren't in it because they want to provide shelter they just want our money! Yes there are some carpenters out there who will slap a few things together cheaply to save a few bucks and there are also fine craftsmen who piece together masterpieces. Marketing execs' job is to produce products that people will want. We have a mermaid deck because people wanted one not because the high council decided to foist tarot mermaids on the unsuspecting masses. As to theme decks I say the more the merrier. Every deck is somebody's favorite and I'm sure there is somebody out there who didn't get into Tarot until they saw a mermaid deck.

Dark_angel	01 Jan 2004
I feel that 'themed' decks can vary enormously in their connection to the "spirit of tarot", from those which just put (for example) pretty pictures of fairies in cards in order to attract people who like fairies, to those which take a theme such as the fey folk and use the theme to explore new aspects of the interpretation of the cards. I think that if a theme is explored thoroughly enough and a lot of time and love go into a deck, a themed deck can bring a huge amount to a reading, as well as perhaps allowing a querent to connect to the cards more easily. For some reason, a lot of people seem to find it easier to understand or absorb a message when it is given in a form that is slightly removed from their everyday life. A non-tarot example of this would be the book 'Animal Farm' by George Orwell. On a personal level, most of my best-loved decks are based on a theme of some sort; my RWS is used mostly for studying.

lunakasha	02 Jan 2004
Hi Ciro! My initial, gut-reaction to your question was this: Yes, it does seem that there are almost an unnecessary number of tarot decks out there, including many "theme" decks that do not seem to have any correlation with tarot as we know it..... On the other hand, I am pleased that there are so many people creating new and exciting interpretations of the tarot, and that we, as tarot practitioners and collectors, have so many more options to choose from.....I would quickly get bored and feel more limited knowing that there were only 3 or 4 decks available (or even a dozen....or a hundred!). I agree with those of you who mentioned that you tend to read more with non-themed, more "traditional" decks, but that art and theme decks have their purpose, and what works for one person may not work for another. I LOVE having so many beautiful/interesting decks to choose from and work with. I agree with HudsonGray who said: "the people who just CAN'T connect with a Rider Waite, and find the unillustrated pip decks impossible, need to look through other decks to find one that speaks to them. Theme deck or not, if it gets someone to click with tarot, or even gets them to pick up a deck for the first time, something has been accomplished." I do not own, and will never own, the traditional RWS deck; for me, the artwork is bland and unappealing. However, I own several RW clones, and they are WONDERFUL!!! In answer to your question: I hope that the interest in tarot continues, so that we, as tarot enthusiasts, will continue to be inspired and delighted by many new and unique tarot decks! ;) Luna

Thea Lynx	18 Jan 2004
As I started to collect more and more decks (38 to date, which I know is a small collection compared to others I have seen posted) I began to worry about this same problem. Happily, my worries have been unfounded so far. I have not yet worked all my decks, but of the ones I have (a bit more than half of them to date) each one has shown me something new. Most recently this past week I used the Celtic Tarot (Courtney Davis illustration) and found a Five of Cups with 4 cups lost, 1 remaining rather than the usual 3/2 split in most other decks I have used. This gave me another layer of meaning to explore! One deck I thought I would have only for the beauty of it was Legend: the Arthurian Tarot, but it positively sang. Some decks do not appeal to me at all and I am not even interested in looking at them. But that is not a value judgement - just my intuitive reaction to them. In honesty, I have not been very attracted to a lot of decks that seem "trendy" (Lord of the Rings for one) but I'm not sure if that's because of the "trendy" aspect or intuition. Then again, some readers I know have reacted to the I Am One deck as too outrageous/dark/created for shock value/too different to make sense, but I had a great time with mine. The Connolly, which I thought was very beautiful and couldn't wait to use was a major disappointment - I had such a negative reaction to it I won't even keep it with my other decks while I try to find a good home for it. So, the bottom line for me is, if the deck calls to me I'll buy it whether it's tradition, trendy, or anything else and let my feelings decide it's value to me when I work it. Thea

~X~	18 Jan 2004
I wouldn't say there are too many, I assume the ones on the market have some type of following, otherwise, they wouldn't be on the market. However, I have gotten much choosier about the decks I buy. I've traded and given away quite a few and I'm trying to avoid that. I'd rather concentrate on the ones I really enjoy.

musclegirl	18 Jan 2004
i agree with a lot of what other people have said so far on this thread. In a way, both commercially and in terms of actually creating a deck in the first place, theme decks are easy to do, rather than to do something original and never-done that isn't theme-based. Sometimes people try different decks to gain new insights about cards in the RWS deck. The theme decks end up being a thematic overlay on top of the tarot, so the purchaser of the deck can spend more energy and concentration in appreciating the theme rather than actually getting the better understanding of tarot that she was seeking.

Phoenyx*	18 Jan 2004
The only real themed deck I would like to get is the LotR deck (as soon as that paycheck comes in I swear!), but in order to truly read that deck, I believe a person would have to be very well versed with the LotR (and not just have seen the movies), to understand the significance of the characters shown.

The Too Many Deck Themes ? thread was originally posted on 29 Dec 2003 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.