Arthurian or Legend the Arthurian
Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 17 Jan 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.
| Summerdream |
17 Jan 2004 |
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Hello!
For my next deck I am considering getting Arthurian or Legend the Arthurian. I'm interested in hearing from other members which of these 2 decks they recommend and why? Is there one you don't like? Is one darker than the other?
Take care,
Momof3girls :)
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| Lee |
17 Jan 2004 |
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I think the Arthurian (Matthews) is darker than the Legend deck. There's an atmosphere of melancholy that suffuses the artwork as well as the concepts and stories.
-- Lee
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| Moonbow* |
17 Jan 2004 |
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I have the Legend Arthurian deck set. The artwork is very beautiful, and the book tells you not only about the cards but about the Arthurian story as well. I had to read the book through when I first got it because the author has researched the legend so well - she is a real enthusiast.
I have seen the other deck as well and I have heard that it also is a good set so it may come down to choice. - Or have both!!...
Moonbow* :)
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| Summerdream |
17 Jan 2004 |
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Originally posted by Lee
I think the Arthurian (Matthews) is darker than the Legend deck. There's an atmosphere of melancholy that suffuses the artwork as well as the concepts and stories.
-- Lee
Lee, Do you have the Arthurian (Matthews) book? Does it go into the legends at all? Please let me know.
Take care,
Momof3girls:)
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| HudsonGray |
17 Jan 2004 |
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I have a problem with the Hanged Man in the Ferguson Arthurian deck--it's dead guys hung (murdered) from trees, which is a big difference from the original meaning of the cards.
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| Summerdream |
17 Jan 2004 |
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Originally posted by HudsonGray
I have a problem with the Hanged Man in the Ferguson Arthurian deck--it's dead guys hung (murdered) from trees, which is a big difference from the original meaning of the cards.
Hi HudsonGray,
Do you have the Arthurian (Matthews)? If so, do you like that one better. I don't think I'd like that card either. Thanks for letting me know about it. Someone told me another card in the Ferguson deck shows the rape of Guinivere, is really such a card?
Take care,
Momof3girls:)
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| Lee |
17 Jan 2004 |
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Originally posted by Momof3girls
Lee, Do you have the Arthurian (Matthews) book? Does it go into the legends at all? Please let me know. Hi Mom, the Matthews Arthurian book is in my opinion weak in that respect. It tells the stories in a truncated and incomplete way so you don't really get a feel for them. The Legend is much superior in terms of the stories. She (Ferguson) really loves them and she communicates that love to the reader. The stories are told in a nice, full manner. If you love stories, I suggest the Legend.
However, on the other hand, I agree with HudsonGray about the Legend Hanged Man.
I'm always afraid that linking to my own reviews will seem egotistical, but since in this case it seems like it might be helpful, I humbly offer this review which compares the two:
http://www.tarotpassages.com/arthurianlegendlb.htm
-- Lee :P
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| Moonbow* |
17 Jan 2004 |
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Originally posted by Momof3girls
Someone told me another card in the Ferguson deck shows the rape of Guinivere, is really such a card?
It has been a while since I read this book but I'm sure I would have remembered a card depicting this. I've just looked again and I cannot see any card showing the rape of Guenevere. I don't even recall that in the legend itself.
This isn't going to be much help to you now but I know there is someone on the site who has studied the Arthurian legend - can't remember who it was now. I'll see if I can find the thread.
Moonbow*
Edited : here's the other thread I was reading, it may be some help until someone else can answer your question:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=861&perpage=10&highlight=Legend%20the%20Arthurian&pagenumber=1
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| lunakasha |
17 Jan 2004 |
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Thanks Lee!
Like Momof3girls, I have been struggling to figure out which of these decks would be better for me, as they look and sound very similar....thanks for providing us the link to your review, as I am sure it will be helpful. Of course, my greatest fear is that I will finally give in to my addiction and order both of them...you know, purely for research and comparison purposes!!!
:) Luna
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| Rhiannon |
17 Jan 2004 |
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I have both decks. I don't have the deck and book version of the Legend by Ferguson though.
I use the Legend alot for readings for a friend of mine. She has the same deck, but doesn't like doing readings by herself. So, I lay out the cards along with her, or have her lay them out along with me and we do the readings over the phone. I find this deck to be very relaxing and comforting in terms of it's colors and most of it's symbolism. I don't mind the Hanged Man so much, the other cards make up for it.
The Matthews deck is very nice for my pet readings. It doesn't have all those PEOPLE cluttering up the minors. :D It has beautiful landscapes instead. At first I thought that this would make the deck difficult to read with since I'm used to Rider Waite clones, but it has actually helped me out. It boosts my imagination and helps me to develop my intuition. And I really love the Death card in this deck.
I know I'm not being very much help here, but I always say "Get them both!" anyway. LOL
R :)
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| HudsonGray |
17 Jan 2004 |
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I don't have the Matthews deck, just the Ferguson one.
No, I don't think Guinevere's attack was shown on any cards. She is on the 8 of Swords, bound for her actions & awating fate after she ran off with Lancelot. And she's connected to the 8 of Spears (wands) White Hart card, where a woman was abducted on the Wedding Day, but nothing about her being attacked.
As for the Hanged Man, the card shows a knight with a noose around his neck, outside Castle Perilous, hands tied behind his back & one leg bound to his hands (hog tied). He's NOT there by choice, which is distracting for me, though others may not have a problem with it. The noose suggests death, rather than a voluntary removal from a situation to look at it from a different perspective. The book goes into the story of Odin, which is Viking & not Arthurian and goes off on talking about the Tree of Life, which isn't part of the mythos here. The man looks dead. The noose could fit right into a cowboy town lynching cattle rustlers. Anyone hung in the Bog areas of the British Isles were generally done like that as a way of killing murderers, or (scientists aren't clear on it yet) may have been an old Celtic tradition of sacrificing one of their community to get a better harvest/year in the coming months after winter. But they don't know if these people sacrificed that way did it voluntarily or were drugged & forced, in the ritual.
So the Hanged Man card doesn't work for me as well as it should.
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| Melvis |
17 Jan 2004 |
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Hi, MO3G!
In the 'tooting my own horn' department, I have a page on my website showing the different associations of the major arcana in both Arthurian decks, as well as a few other Celtic decks. I intend to do more comparison work on it, and to have more links to pictures of the cards, but I've been neglecting it as of late due to moving and other commitments.
I don't have a preference between the two Arthurian decks, as I actually don't use either of them all that often! (Too many decks...too little time! ;) ) The Hallowquest deck by the Matthews and Miranda Gray does have a couple more books that you can use with it, but I believe they're out of print. You could try abebooks.com or allbookstores.com to try to find them. One is a type of Course book, and I think there's another one that condenses the coursework and the background info that the Matthews have written. The Legend is very straightforward, though, so it's easy to get into the deck quickly.
Good luck on your decision...although, if you were a true Tarotholic, you'd get both! })
Peace,
Melvis
:TSTRE
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| Majecot |
17 Jan 2004 |
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Hi Momof3girls
Here is my 2 cents worth :)
I have Legend, and it was the second deck I ever bought, and for many years the only deck that I read with.. I love it! I am ashamed to say that up until this past year, I never cracked open the book, and I am sorry that I did not read it sooner, I have only just started reading the book and I am enjoying it. A Keeper of the Words is wonderfully written (so far), and steeped in Arthur legend as are the cards. The Hanged Man is not typical and quite frankily it is one of my least favorite cards. But the cards themselves tell a story.
I do not have the other deck so I cannot compare them, but I have seen some of the images. I think both are beautiful. I was surprised that Lee thought Matthews was the darker of the two. I aways thought of Legend as fairly dark, my daughter will not let me read her with them.
So I am leaning you towards Legend (because I have it ;) ) and if necessary.... buy BOTH!
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| WolfyJames |
17 Jan 2004 |
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About The Hanged Man, in the movie Excalibur, based on La morte d'Arthur, Perceval, one of King Arthur's knight, is hanged on a tree. After chocking for a while, he sees the Graal. Couldn't be possible that this card in the deck is based on that scene of the movie (and the book)?
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| Summerdream |
17 Jan 2004 |
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Ok......I have to confess, I went shopping tonight and ended up with Legend: The Arthurian. I am looking forward to using it and reading the book.
"Good luck on your decision...although, if you were a true Tarotholic, you'd get both!"
Melvis, you are a bad influence....lol. I think I will need to get the Arthurian Tarot now. Oh my!!!!
Thank all of you that put up links to this discussion. :)
Momof3girls
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| Majecot |
18 Jan 2004 |
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:D:D:D:D:D
Where you able to compare both in the store, or did they only have one?
I find the available stock in stores somewhat lacking... I like to have instant gratification when I shop, but I also love having the Chocolate Santa come to my door. So my bad, I shop on line more than I should.
I think your going to enjoy the book alot. ( and the deck)
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| Summerdream |
18 Jan 2004 |
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Hi Majecot,
Actually that is the only one of the 2 they had in the store. So, when I got home I ordered the other one online....am I bad or what??? hehehe
I am enjoying reading the book.
Momof3girls
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| Majecot |
18 Jan 2004 |
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At least you have one to play with right away... first impressions?
I look forward to seeing your comparisons on your new aquisitions.
:D
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| Alissa |
19 Jan 2004 |
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Great choice on the Legend Arthurian deck, Momof3girls, here's a thread where it was also being discussed
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=861
As to the "rape" of Guinevere ... as far as I know there is no rape of Gwen, in any of the tales in any tradition.
There is a trial of Guinevere, which I believe was first used by Malory, then later at length by Tennyson. It deals with the morality of her situation in a wholly religious way, tying her up while her fate is decided by the men of the court.
I'm fairly sure the 8 of swords is referring to her trial ... which I seem to remember was something that Mordred cooked up in order to "turn up the heat" for Arthur and his court before taking him to battle.
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| Lorem |
19 Jan 2004 |
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In one episode of the Lancelot series, Guinevere is taken prisoner by a meanie named Meliagrant or Meliagaunt (depending on the author and translation; either way, I'm probably spelling it wrong), and Lancelot rescues her after completing several feats of valour. In some episodes, mainly the later ones (Malory and the classical romantics that came after, as well as some of the modern writers), she is raped; most of the earlier stuff has her merely locked away.
I don't own either of these decks so I don't know offhand whether or not either depicts the rape of Guinevere. My recollection from having seen and read with both of these decks is that the Arthurian dealt mainly with symbols and archetypes, whereas Legend focused on story elements. So I guess which one is better depends on which versions of the myths you prefer. If you like the older stuff (Mabinogion, Geoffrey, Chretien, the Grail story, etc.) then you'll like the Arthurian better; if you like the newer stuff (Malory, and all of the stuff written in the 1700s and 1800s which I have yet to read), then the Legend is probably better.
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| Rhiannon |
19 Jan 2004 |
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Yay, MO3G got BOTH! Way to give in to the tarot-holism!
R :)
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| lunakasha |
19 Jan 2004 |
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HELP!!!
I have been following this thread closely (also PM's with Momof3girls) still trying to decide between the two decks. Just now I went to look at the cards/artwork (again) and guess what??? I LOVE them BOTH!!!
I am definitely beyond help.....
:) Luna
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| Majecot |
21 Jan 2004 |
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G'head Luna, get the credit card out :D
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| WolfyJames |
21 Jan 2004 |
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More I think about it and more I think I'm going to put them both on my wishlist.
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| Summerdream |
23 Jan 2004 |
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Well both decks are in my possession now! I've started reading Legend: The Arthurian Tarot book and find it very interesting and captivating. I'm all into King stories and that time era anyway. It's a magical time.
I haven't started reading The Arthurian Tarot but have looked briefly through the book and of course at all the cards.
Judging based on looks, I like the romanticism of the Legend deck and the soft colors. I am a hopeless romantic at heart. The Arthurian has wonderful landscape pictures in the pips that I am drawn too also. I love decks that have nature in them.
In both decks there are some cards I don't care for, but I think it's that way for almost all decks. I can deal with them though, because the majority of the cards in each deck I love.
For those of you that have the Arthurian Tarot, do you have another book that goes with it besides the Arthurian Handbook?The Arthurian Handbook doesn't seem to have much information of the history or legends on the minors.
Momof3girls
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The Arthurian or Legend the Arthurian thread was originally posted on 17 Jan 2004 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.
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