comparing Celtic-themed tarot decks

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 17 Jan 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Rusty Neon	17 Jan 2004
I don't have any Celtic-themed tarot decks (at least not yet). However, I've long been wondering if an organized comparison of Celtic-themed tarot decks has ever been done. Features I'd be interested in comparing would include the following: (1) The relative ease with which the deck can be used "out of the box" by someone familar with RWS imagery (2) The relative ease with which the deck can be used "out of the box" by someone familar with basic RWS divinatory meanings (even if the deck doesn't always follow RWS imagery) (3) The logic of the Celtic mythology assignments to the various major and minor arcana cards (4) How steep is the learning curve for someone familar with RWS imagery and divinatory meanings? (5) How adequate is the companion book for the deck in terms of informing the user of the relevant Celtic themes of the deck? (6) To what extent does the user of the deck need to consult books (other than the companion book) to make sense of the relevant Celtic themes of the deck? (7) The quality and depth of the art (8) Are any of the features of the deck non-conventional, compared to the RWS deck? What other factors do you think are important in comparing between Celtic-themed tarot decks? If you have any deck-specific comparisons, kindly post to this thread. Thanks.

felicityk	17 Jan 2004
Though they may not answer all your questions, here are two good articles from Tarot Passages on this very subject: http://www.tarotpassages.com/celticoverviewI-dl.htm http://www.tarotpassages.com/celticoverview2-dl.htm Felicity

Rusty Neon	17 Jan 2004
thanks felilcity! ... I'll check those out.

Kiama	17 Jan 2004
Now, this is all just personal opinion and I'd like to focus on your third point. I have found that in most Celtic Tarot decks (esp. the ones published by Lo Scarabeo, cuz they seem to use exactly the same associations in every Celtic deck...) I disagree vehemently with the associations chosen for the cards... I don't see how the Morrigan can be the Empress, or how Finn MacCumhaill can be the Devil, for instance. Alot of the associations, in my opinion, do not pay any attention to the actual source texts for these deities and myths. :( In fact, to think about it I cannot think of a Celtic deck that I actually like, and this is a shame since there is so much potential within Celtic mythology to be linked very effectively with the Tarot. I love the Arthurian decks, but that's slightly different... Another problem with Celtic themed decks is that alot of them just 'pretend': they have lots of pretty Celtic artwork (which, actually is not Celtic but a copy of artstyle popularized by a more modern artist, wish I could remember his name now...!) and that's about it: no associations, just the traditional RWS images in Celtic-style. :( Having said all that, I think the decks available at the moment (bar the Merlin Tarot and Celtic Tarot by Courtney Davies) could easily be used by anybody familiar with the RWS imagery and divinatory meanings: like I sid, few of them differ very much from each other, and most of them are shallow. The only Celtic-themed deck I would say is really difficult, no matter what your level of experience, etc, is the Sacred Circle Tarot. Not only does it change the imagery, but it also changes some of the divinatory meanings and the numbering of the Majors, making a very confusing Tarot deck in places. It's pretty, but that's about it. I do wish they'd just left the Major numbering alone! Saying that, this deck is more a 'neo-Celtic' deck: it doesn't use Celtic deities or myths, but instead its themes are based on what is said to be Celtic belief and practice, though how much that is true is anybody's guess! (The little we know about the Celts would not give us enough understanding of them to be able to know what their beliefs and practices all were...) Mainly, the Sacred Circle deck is more a modern neo-Pagan shamanistic deck that takes some cues from the Celtic tradition. Now, the Celtic Wisdom Tarot... Here's a very good Celtic deck... But it's very difficult to use. For once, this is a deck that I actually think has excellent associations for the cards, and it looks straight to the source texts themselves: probably the reason why it's so good! (But then, it's created by Caitlin Matthews: I wasn't expecting anything less.) But it does depart heavily from the RWS imagery, though retains the divinatory meanings. I am sure that once you got used to it you'd be able to use it very effectively, but it's just a case of familiarizing yourself with the myths and figures associated with each card (and I do mean each card: Majors and Minors, which is something not common to many Celtic decks, and which I think makes this deck one of the better ones.) Anywho, time for bed for me (it's 3:17am GMT...) I'll probably post some more on this tomorrow. (Cuz 'tomorrow' doesn't really start until you've had a sleep and woken up. })) Blessings, Kiama

Melvis	18 Jan 2004
Hi, all! I'm thinking this must be a sign...this is the second thread I've seen in as many days that mentioned Arthurian/Celtic decks, and I've been very lax in updating the Celtic Tarots page on my website! :rolleyes: I wonder...which of those Celtic deities would be the one to say, "Get your a$$ in gear and work on those pages!"? Anyway, when I first began collecting decks I was fascinated by all the Celtic ones, and how they used such vastly different associations for the cards. So when I got my own website, I set up one page to list the specifics of the decks (authors, size, etc.), and another to list the Major Arcana associations with the various deities. (Note: The decks shown are only the first five I'd planned on detailing...the Sacred Circle and others were to follow...someday!) I'd hoped to go into detailed comparisons on all the majors (like I do on the Death card on that page), but my flightiness has carried me away from working on these pages for quite a while. Caitlin and John Matthews are big Celtic history and mythology experts, so their decks (the Hallowquest Arthurian and the Celtic Wisdom) tend to be fairly steeped with lore. But, as Kiama noted, this can make it more difficult to get to know those decks unless you are willing to fully invest yourself. I think the fact that so many different associations are made between decks for the same mythological figure points to the fluidity of the Celtic legends they are based on. The stories were mostly oral for centuries, and when they were written down the various authors infused them with their own local flair, making for quite a Celtic stew! I suppose this is what fascinates me about these legends, seeing how they change across the different cultures of the Isles through the years. I think your questions about ease of use for those familiar with RWS imagery are excellent, and would make a great article if you ever decide to write it! It sounds like you're considering it, and I think you'd do a great job! If you do, feel free to link to any of my pages, if they are at all useful. Good luck in your 'quest' for Celtic Tarot knowledge! ;) Peace, Melvis

Cerulean	10 Oct 2004
...I signed up for the Yahoo.com Hallowquest study group and am using a no-borders cut version for myself...this is my third time around, but it is renewing and refreshing because time has passed...I also check out the one Ancient Celts history book that I found that reminded me of my class last Spring...my book had a Welsh author and perhaps not so strangely, it also helps me anchor my interest in the Matthews Hallowquest this time around. Perhaps I now see the landscapes in the pip cards as not so melancholy because the seasonal landscape that I see reminds me of how some romantic or Asian styles of paintings would emphasize the settings and beauty of the plants and animals and de-emphasizes the human aspect...it makes the courts and majors seem all that more significant when I see them in a reading. Anyway, hope others who use the Hallowquest or celtic decks will also respond...there's a new Druidcraft one out there. Does it blow all the others away for you? Regards Cerulean

Gerbear	10 Oct 2004
One celtic deck which hasn't been mentioned is the Celtic Tarot by Manuel Gonzales Miranda, published by Piatnik in 1990. Supposedly, there was a Celtic preference for illustrations using only curved or only straight lines. This deck uses only straight lines with only a few exceptions (Sun). The majors follow the Marseilles style, but look very different with straight lines, while the minors have pips, and illustrations which are decorative only.

Proserpina	11 Oct 2004
I have the Celtic Dragon Tarot and Shapeshifter decks, both illustrated by D.J. Conway. Although both are somewhat Celtic in design, the Dragon deck doesn't really make use of Celtic mythology. The artwork is lovely and is fairly easy to interpret if you're familiar with RW, but is more fantasy-themed than specifically Celtic in my opinion. The Shapeshifter deck does make use of Celtic mythology, mainly in the court cards (Gwydion as the Queen of Wands, Arianrhod as the King of Wands, Lugh as the Queen of Swords), but it doesn't really follow the RW system very closely and I find it difficult to read with this deck without assistance from the book. The authors also added three cards of their own to the Major Arcana, so it's irregular in this way as well. Genders are often swapped throughout the court cards. Again, very lovely imagery-- as the name implies, most of the humans here appear as half-animal and nothing is what it seems-- but it's also fairly nontraditional. Eh, I'm old-fashioned, what can I say? :) Proserpina

lunakasha	11 Oct 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Proserpina I have the Celtic Dragon Tarot and Shapeshifter decks, both illustrated by D.J. Conway. Actually....the artist for these decks is Lisa Hunt.....D.J. Conway designed the decks and wrote the text I'm pretty sure.... :) Luna

Proserpina	11 Oct 2004
Right you are! Thanks for picking that up. :) ~P Quote: Originally posted by lunakasha Actually....the artist for these decks is Lisa Hunt.....D.J. Conway designed the decks and wrote the text I'm pretty sure.... :) Luna

The comparing Celtic-themed tarot decks thread was originally posted on 17 Jan 2004 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.