Osho Zen Tarot- who has this deck?

Thread originally posted on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum on 17 Jan 2004, and now archived in the Forum Library.

Jypsie	17 Jan 2004
I bought an Osho Zen deck the other day. I really like the deck, and on the surface I find them easy to read. Then I start looking in the book, and all that profound Zen philosophy bogs me down. I don't know much about Zen. But I found out that if I pull one card, at least the couple of times I did, it is great fodder for guided meditations. But as far as an everyday deck, I'm not yet so sure. Who has this deck? Do you love it, use it often, or does it gather dust?

ros	17 Jan 2004
I had this deck once & I compared meanings with Rider Waite Tarot & then gave it away. Then a friend who had the set gave them to me. I gave the book away & kept the cards. Then I bought Tarot & the Book of Zen. I LOVE the cards but I don't use them. They are too deep for me. I want my readings to be light & not so heavy. I put the deck away for now & look at it every once in a while. It's too deep of learning for me. I learned little things that I still include in my readings but that's it.

BlueLotus	17 Jan 2004
I own the deck and book. I bought them initially because at the time, I had been reading for Osho, and I liked his philosophy and spiritual outlook on life, and the cards only emphasized this. But one eventually moves on. I still love the artwork, and get immersed in reading the cards once in a while, and I don't think I will ever trade them. They are too precious for me ( Nostalgia ? ) But I think that if you are only interested in Tarot, you may go ahead and read the cards' meanings, and compare them with RWS deck if you have it that is. Or just meditate on them.

Imagemaker	17 Jan 2004
I use the Zen deck to help me see the forest of souls (to use Rachel Pollack's book title in an alternative place) instead of the trees of daily life. I don't relate the cards to the RWS meanings at all--they come from a different perspective on the human drama. My background as a longtime meditator, student of Buddhism philosophy (not a Buddhist, though), and a lot of Zen reading made this deck a real magnet for me. It was my first buy after a RWS deck. When I'm really struggling with major life issues, the Zen deck helps me see the deeper spiritual meaning. It also means I only use the deck occasionally. I use a RWS deck for all "what to do?" readings. I find the art a big help in opening transcendent awareness.

Moonbow*	17 Jan 2004
I do use the deck and book, but I see it more for self meditation or self reading. That's not to say it can't be used to read for others but that is how I like to use it. I have used it in the last Seekers question as we are doing readings about ourselves and for that is has been very accurate for me. I haven't used the deck enough and must try to get round to it more often. Its definately a deck I will keep in my collection but not one I use as often as I should. Took me a while to 'want' to use it too. Moonbow* :)

Silverlotus	17 Jan 2004
I've had the Osho Zen deck for about a year and a half now, but I have hardly used it. I found it to be a very spiritual deck, and some of what it said hit to close to home for me to handle at the time. I'm starting to feel ready to pick it up again though. I don't think that one needs to be Zen Buddhist to use the deck, but I do think having some idea about that path is helpful. Also, I have taken out the card representing Osho because he isn't someone I recognize as being a Master. (Of course, there are arguments either way for this.) Beyond the deck and book set, there is also another book available: Tarot in the Spirit of Zen: The Game of Life. I don't have it yet, but I am thinking about picking it up.

Khatruman	17 Jan 2004
Osho Zen is still my favorite, though my collection has significantly grown. When I taught a folklore course and included a section on tarot, I would bring along several decks. I also did sample readings with them and I found that students with no knowledge of tarot saw messages much more clearly with these cards than others that I have shown. I like the deck mainly for self readings also. I do like the zen philosophy, and perhaps it is just me that I understand it very clearly. I like the overall belief of balance in Oriental philosophy: that there isn't a "good" and "evil" in that evil needs to be vanquished, but that there is a balance, "light" and "shadow", and that though light is always preferrable, without the dark or shadow, it is too blinding. Peace

MoreMagic	17 Jan 2004
If you are struggling with the Osho Zen deck, I highly recommend the book Tarot in the Spirit of Zen. Lovely book, worth reading even if you don't have the deck!

musclegirl	17 Jan 2004
I've heard or read somewhere that this deck fits in well with the vocabulary of 12-step programs and could be useful in that regard.

~X~	18 Jan 2004
I have this deck. No matter how many decks I accumulate, I still love it. I use it for personal readings. It's more of an oracle deck for me.

Emily	18 Jan 2004
I too like the Osho Zen, I've had it for a while now and I still wouldn't be able to use it for other people. I don't do spreads with it just take a couple of cards and do the reading from them. I find the cards very beautiful and uplifting, its a deck I can get out last thing at night and do a reading for the next day just mainly for guidance. I like reading from the books, the book that is with the set gives a good overall view of the cards but the second book recently published is much better. None of the material is copied from the first book so both books compliment each other, its also a much larger and thicker book - well worth getting. :)

wavebreaker	20 Jan 2004
This is my favourite deck. And I don't know much about Zen philosopy... ;) I just let the images speak to me. Which is why I always say that this isn't so much a reading deck, but a speaking deck... ;)

Kaz	20 Jan 2004
i have it, its a great deck, like wavebreaker says, you dont have to know a thing about zen. the deck is very talkative. it contains an extra card, with osho on it (title is "the master"), i always toss that one out. there are a lot of deck i could easily do without, but i am very attached to this one !

lunakasha	20 Jan 2004
I agree with everyone who has already mentioned that the Osho Zen is unlike any other tarot deck....once you get past the fact that it is very different and non-traditional, you should spend some time getting to know it and appreciate it on its own terms. For me, as a *very* novice tarot reader, it was confusing trying to match the suits in OZ with the traditional suits of other decks. I also found it difficult to use these cards in "traditional" tarot spreads, because (as many of you pointed out) the meanings of the cards are very complex, deep...trying to relate several cards together can be confusing and very time-consuming! Having said all of that, I learned to love these cards as soon as I realized that they are different, and can be very effective when used in a different way. I pull one Osho Zen card just before bedtime and use it as a meditative tool....the images are very dreamlike and soothing to look at. I study the card, then read the interpretation in the book and try to think about how it applies to my current situation. Without fail, no matter which card I pull, I always get some useful information from the book, and the image on the card helps me into peaceful sleep :) Blessings to you...I hope you are able to make a connection with these very special cards. :) Luna

Khatruman	20 Jan 2004
Quote: Originally posted by lunakasha I agree with everyone who has already mentioned that the Osho Zen is unlike any other tarot deck....once you get past the fact that it is very different and non-traditional, you should spend some time getting to know it and appreciate it on its own terms. For me, as a *very* novice tarot reader, it was confusing trying to match the suits in OZ with the traditional suits of other decks. I also found it difficult to use these cards in "traditional" tarot spreads... It's strange that I am puzzled by the problems people have with this deck, or that they find it difficult, complex, etc. etc. As I was reading this post by lunakasha, one thought immediately jumped into my mind: The metric system. I am from the US, and we here have had the devil of a time converting to metric, to the point where, besides liter bottles of soda, we have more or less decided to give up. How odd of us!!! It is so simple a system. Converting from one unit to another is a simple matter of moving decimal places... much simpler than dividing inches into feet into yards...God forbid remember how many feet in a mile!!! Why do we Americans have such a hard time with it? Well, because we believe that it means we have to convert English measurements into metric measurements. Why not just USE it???? When you were raised on inches, ounces, pounds, etc., did you have to convert another system? No. You just used it. When you get a 2 liter Pepsi, do you need to calculate how many ounces or fractions of a gallon that is? No, you just KNOW what it is. Perhaps people are trying to "convert" Osho Zen into other tarot systems, or into Western philosophy or theology. Take it for what it is. It is zen. What is zen? Ask a zen master. He will smile and ask you what you think? It simply IS.

Diana	21 Jan 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Khatruman Why do we Americans have such a hard time with it? Well, because we believe that it means we have to convert English measurements into metric measurements. Why not just USE it???? When you were raised on inches, ounces, pounds, etc., did you have to convert another system? No. You just used it. When you get a 2 liter Pepsi, do you need to calculate how many ounces or fractions of a gallon that is? No, you just KNOW what it is. Perhaps people are trying to "convert" Osho Zen into other tarot systems, or into Western philosophy or theology. Take it for what it is. It is zen. What is zen? Ask a zen master. He will smile and ask you what you think? It simply IS. Great analogy Khatruman. Just over a year ago, many countries in Europe had to abandon their currencies for the Euro. Many people kept on trying to convert the Euro into their old money and it confused them greatly and they wasted a lot of time (and they are still doing it a year later - lol - ). Other people just said "to hell with it. Forget the French Franc, or the German Mark. It's a Euro." The change was far easier for them. The Osho Zen Tarot deck is a deck in it's own right. As you say, it's Zen. It simply is. Forget even the word "Tarot" when you use it. Just USE it, as Khatruman says. (Oh, and I always use the Master card. It's one of my favourites. :) Because it reminds me of Osho, and he made made me laugh so often and when I see it, I always start to smile and smiling is good).

lark	21 Jan 2004
My three favorite cards are Ordinariness Friendliness Silence I have them laying out on the table today so I can look at them. They bring me such a sense of peace. I never look at it as tarot or not. I just enjoy it. I ordered the book Tarot in the Spirit of Zen. How do you like it in combination with the deck? Emily is this the book you are talking about?

Moongold	21 Jan 2004
Osho Zen was one of the first decks I got as well, The images are stunning and I have downloaded them all to put in my Orphalese tarot program. I have begun to use the deck again for reading lately and agree with what others have said. The deck simply talks to you. Moongold

paradoxx	22 Jan 2004
I am going to try amnd place some study group threads based on this deck, the possiblities and opinions are endless. 7 of fire [stress] is very omniinterpretive, Stay out of reach of that monkey, especially since we are entering the year of the monkey.

wavebreaker	22 Jan 2004
Just a reminder: there's an interview with Ma Deva Padma, the creator of the Osho Zen deck, here on Aeclectic. In the interview, Ma Deva Padma explains the involvement of Osho in the creation of the deck and why she included the Master card (which I personally don't use ;) ).

Mimers	22 Jan 2004
I too have the Osho Zen deck. It was one of the earlier decks I bought. I got it sight unseen. It was one of those deals where I saw it in B&N and knew I had to have it. I don't use this deck frequently, but would never trade it. When I do use it, the readings are deep and rich. I love this deck. Whether or not it is Tarot is really of no concern to me. I particularly like using this deck for one of the spreads in the book called The Mirror. Every one I have done this for has gleaned great insight into their relationships. I usually do this with both people present. BTW, I too through out the Master card. It just had no meaning for me as I don't know anything about Osho. Blessings, Mimi

Diana	22 Jan 2004
I think the "Master" card bothers a lot of people, because of the connotations in our Western world attached to that word "Master". We think of the Master as the one who gives orders. Whom we bow before. The superior being. The dictator. In South Africa, when I grew up, the African people were expected to call any white man, including children, "Master". (Shudder. Big big shudder.) But it's different in Zen philosophy. And by removing the Master card from the deck, one is missing out on something really important. :( Osho himself said: "I am a natural person. I have no charisma, and I don’t believe in charisma. I don’t believe in methods - even if I use them, I don’t believe in them. I am a natural person, very ordinary. I can be lost in a crowd and you will not be able to find me. I don’t lead you, I accompany you." On the osho.com website, they explain the Master thing thus: "The Master in Zen is not a master over others, but a master of himself --and this self-mastery is reflected in his every gesture and his every word. He is not a teacher with a doctrine to impart, nor a supernatural messenger with a direct line to God, but simply one who has become a living example of the highest potential that lies within each and every human being. In the eyes of the Master, a disciple finds his own truth reflected. In the silence of the Master's presence, the disciple can fall more easily into the silence of his own being. The community of seekers that arises around a Master becomes an energy field that supports each unique individual in finding his or her own inner light. Once that light is found, the disciple comes to understand that the outer Master was just a catalyst, a device to provoke the awakening of the inner." I would suggest to everyone to put back the Master card - it is there for a reason. By removing it, you are amputating the ZENNESS from this deck. That's sad. :(

Mimers	22 Jan 2004
I'm sorry Diana :( I lost that card a long time ago. I have to say though, I thought about what you said, and that could very well be part of the reason I did not care for this card. I did not like the idea of him titled master. As far as Osho declairing himself ordinary, than why is he in the deck with the title master? I just really felt he didn't belong, and like I said, I knew little about him, so it really had no meaning for me. Blessings, Mimi

Diana	22 Jan 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Mimers As far as Osho declairing himself ordinary, than why is he in the deck with the title master? Because a Zen Master always accompanies us. It is explained in the stuff I quoted in my previous post.

Imagemaker	22 Jan 2004
Having been in the company of meditation masters in yoga venues, I can second Diana's post that they are masters of themselves, not masters of others. True masters have mastered their ego and don't need to wield it against others. When I've pulled the Master card on the Osho deck, it's had something to tell me about how I'm mastering my ego (power imbalances, my rage, my defensiveness or unfairness to others). The card may be a reminder to step back from my ego or (rarely) an acknowledgement that I handled a tough situation well. One point of meditation is to observe your actions and learn your patterns--how you respond to a card named "master" is only one more place to learn about yourself.

Khatruman	22 Jan 2004
Ahhh, now this talk regarding the "Master" has really been enlightening to me. I have only recently gone with the practice of removing this card from the deck. I must confess that my motivation was the same as those who see master as meaning something dictatorial. I was wrong in this perception. Hopefully this new enlightenment, via Diana, will help me in the path to my own Mastery. Peace

Imagemaker	22 Jan 2004
Whatever one's feeling about a Master, the card could always be seen as a sign of "big ego"--the gift and the shadow to be determined.

Diana	22 Jan 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Imagemaker When I've pulled the Master card on the Osho deck, it's had something to tell me about how I'm mastering my ego (power imbalances, my rage, my defensiveness or unfairness to others). The card may be a reminder to step back from my ego or (rarely) an acknowledgement that I handled a tough situation well. One point of meditation is to observe your actions and learn your patterns--how you respond to a card named "master" is only one more place to learn about yourself. I have also seen it this way. But often it has come in a moment when I am feeling very sad. Or when loneliness has crept in and taken over my heart. Or when one is hurting so hard because one wishes to cry tears but they have all been spent and there are none left. And then the Master comes along (not Osho - just "The Master") who reminds me I am not alone. That I am being accompanied by all the Masters who have ever trodden this earth and their love and wisdom and compassion are with me all the time. And then I feel less sad, or less lonely, or I find some more tears to cry until I feel better.

Moonbow*	22 Jan 2004
That's it, I'm going to get mine out tonight and have another play with them. Diana and Imagemaker, I love what you have said about the Master card. I have only used this deck a few times (for no other reason than that I have far too many to use!!) but the Master card has not come up for me yet. I would never be able to take it out of the deck though, because I am a believer in trying to connect with what the artist or designer of the deck it trying to put across. The card is there for a reason and if I don't know what that reason is now then one day I will. Its much the same as the Universe card in the Quest Tarot, I wont take that out either. Maybe this stems from my use of oracle decks where there is quite often a card left blank for you to design your own

Imagemaker	22 Jan 2004
Quote: That I am being accompanied by all the Masters who have ever trodden this earth and their love and wisdom and compassion are with me all the time. This is a wonderful perception on the card, Diana! I will add it to my kaliedoscope of card knowledge.

wavebreaker	22 Jan 2004
My main reason for leaving out the Master card is not so much the title, but the fact that I feel I don't know enough about this card with all its background for it to have a useful meaning for me. Like I said, I don't know much about Zen philosophy and I also don't know much about Osho (I don't have anything against him; how can I, if I hardly know anything about him? ;) ). But maybe I should just give it a second chance and let it speak to me like all the other cards in the deck do... :) As for the word "master": in this context I don't see it as a person mastering others, but as in "schoolmaster", therefore a teacher.

Moonbow*	23 Jan 2004
Quote: Originally posted by Moonbow* That's it, I'm going to get mine out tonight and have another play with them. Well, I did get them out. I did a reading for my son who has alot of course work to do for the GCSE's at school and I just wanted to know how things were going and how I could help. (he already pointed out that a chance to get on the computer would help him! whoops!) The reading I did was the diamond spread from the book and the interesting thing about the spread was that he had one 10, two 9's and two pages. Two of the cards were pentacles (rainbows) and two were wands (fire) and one was a sword (clouds). Amazing! He is in his last year at school and will start his new life at college when he has done his exams so all the cards spoke to me, honestly. I didn't use the book at all for the reading because I am trying to read the cards intuitively. I agree, with what has already been said, just use them. Moonbow*

Silverlotus	23 Jan 2004
I understand what Diana is saying in regards to the Master card. I have no problem with the ideal it represents. My problem is with using Osho as a personification of that ideal. There are far to many scandals and rumours of scandals surrounding him. If it was a picture of no one specifically, then I would use it.

Summerdream	23 Jan 2004
The Osho Zen was one of the first decks I bought when I first started studying the tarot intensively 2 years ago. The unique pictures are what drew me to the deck. It is a very intuitive deck and leads to an easy read. I love this deck. Momof3girls:)

Kaz	23 Jan 2004
i leave the master card out coz i want the deck to have 78 cards, not 79. nothing to do with osho as person.

starsongs	28 Jan 2004
I've had the Osho Zen deck and book set for several years and it remains a favorite. Its wonderful for intuitive readings, and times when I (or others) am seeking specifically to simplify life. I've found it to follow a tarot structure quite well, and use it in the same ways I use other 78 (79) card decks...its the philosophy thats different...a welcome change sometimes...and a deeply spiritual deck like many of you have suggested.... Absolutely love the all thoughts shared on the Master card...I had never thought one way or the other about taking it out/leaving it in...it seemed very much a part of the deck/system..You've all given me some food for thought... My favorite cards in the deck are (quite a list)..lol Guidance (3 of rainbows) Slowing Down (Knight of Rainbows) Courage VII Creativity III Ordinariness (8 of Rainbows) Change X Flowering (Queen of Rainbows) Travelling (8 of Fire) The Rebel IV Receptivity (Queen of Water) Rebirth (10 of Clouds) Silence XVII Intensity (Knight of Fire) Adventure (Page of Rainbows) New Vision XII Possibilities (2 of Fire) Aloneness IX Trust (Knight of Water) Maturity (Ace of Rainbows) Inocence XIX in no particular order Blessings, starsongs

MysticHermit	01 Jun 2004
I like this deck so much because of its bright colors and the pictures. I dont know whether I would have been hooked on to tarot if I had not seen this deck. I am yet to do full-fledged readings with this deck. MysticHermit

dolphingirl	01 Jun 2004
It is a very beautiful tarot deck but it just doesn't have that tarot feeling to me. The images are lovely but they just don't flow together for me to create one story but seem to want to stand alone.

MysticHermit	02 Jun 2004
I agree that the cards are one of the most beautiful ones I have ever seen and that tends to make them stand-alone more rather than merge into a single story. I have never tried to read using a big spread with this cards yet, so I have not exactly seen it yet.

Logiatrix	05 Aug 2004
I found this thread because I've pulled my OZ out of hibernation (storage), and I've decided to use it again. I didn't have any plans to post--I was just rooting around for other opinions about the deck, as I haven't made use of it for the past two years. One thing that I always struggled with about the deck was the card called "The Master," and I left it out when I played with the deck, mostly cuz I didn't know how to apply it in readings. Leaving it out kind of bugged me, but I couldn't see having it in, either...it just didn't mean anything to me, how could I read it? Then, I came across Diana's post this evening, where she pointed out that, largely due to a history of oppression, the Western connotations of the title "Master" implicate a negative entity... Quote: Originally posted by Diana ...But it's different in Zen philosophy. And by removing the Master card from the deck, one is missing out on something really important... On the osho.com website, they explain the Master thing thus: "The Master in Zen is not a master over others, but a master of himself--and this self-mastery is reflected in his every gesture and his every word..." I would suggest to everyone to put back the Master card - it is there for a reason. By removing it, you are amputating the ZENNESS from this deck. That's sad. :( Talk about enlightenment! :laugh: Seeing it this way has somehow opened me up more to my deck, which will now be a complete set of 79 cards. It feels right to have "The Master" back. Thank you, Diana. :)

sassygirl3124	05 Aug 2004
I have just received this deck about 2 weeks ago and I love it. It is deeply spritual and tells me more of my emotions of the situation than anything but I find it very helpful at times. The art work is great and love looking at them. I don't think I would use this deck to read for someone else and I don't always use it to read for me but it can be good at times. Julie

deva	09 Aug 2004
I love this deck - I think it's beautiful, even though I know very little (if anything really :confused: ) about Zen. :) I've had this deck for a couple of years, loving the pictures but never reading with it, aside from pulling a card out here and there. I think this is because I was trying to learn the more traditional tarot and I couldn't equate what I knew/was learning with this deck. Then the other day an online buddy said they would like a reading and for some reason I was drawn to use this deck, so I thought 'what the hell' and went with it. I just drew 7 cards and read it through, not assigning meanings to any card position, and it made perfect sense to me. (And more importantly - it did to the friend I was reading for! :D) I didn't use the book (mainly because I couldn't get to it at the time! :D) so relied totally on intuition and the cards (including the keywords as it helps point me in the right direction as to what the card is conveying. :)). I think this was where I was going wrong when I first received it...for me, at least, I need to read it as it is and not equate it to anything else. :)

maria42airam	22 Aug 2004
I am waiting (rather impatiently) for my Osho Zen deck to arrive. I am hoping to use it along with the Zen class that I am taking at B&N in September. I haven't seen the whole deck, but I've seen cards from it on this page: http://www.osho.com/Main.cfm?Area=Magazine&Sub1Menu=Tarot&Sub2Menu=OshoZenTarot&Language=English I find it very interesting that the fourth major (Emperor in R/W) is called "The Rebel" in this deck. *** It arrived today! It's beautiful. and two books to read! Maria

The Osho Zen Tarot- who has this deck? thread was originally posted on 17 Jan 2004 in the Tarot Decks board, and is now archived in the Forum Library. Read the active threads in Tarot Decks, or read more archived threads.